Whole Home Audio/Video setup questions - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 6Likes
  • 1 Post By Postmoderndesign
  • 1 Post By JT Babin
  • 1 Post By Joe Fernand
  • 1 Post By Joe Fernand
  • 1 Post By Joe Fernand
  • 1 Post By Joe Fernand
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Post Whole Home Audio/Video setup questions

Hello everyone. I am new to the forums and don't have extensive knowledge of a/v specifics. I did some searching prior to posting this but please let me know if this has been posted before or should be posted somewhere else.

I would like to set up my entire house with a centralized a/v system. I have 3 bedrooms, 1 office, and the usual kitchen, living room, dining room, breakfast nook, and back porch. What I am envisioning is to have all the components (Directv boxes, XBox, Computer, Blu-ray, etc. in one closet and be able to access them on any tv in the house and control from any room in the house and from a master location.

I haven't been able to find much describing the necessary components or wiring. I have read a lot about using cat5 wiring but I'm not sure how that works in regards to connecting to the tv's and speakers.

The only way I have been able to think of designing it (which I know has to be the worst way possible) is to have a stack of receivers (1 for each location) and having each component run into splitters that disburse to each receiver. Then having IR extender/wall plates to manage the remotes.

Could someone help me with the parts necessary to complete what I want and any helpful tips on wiring. I am fairly handy and have a decent sense of how wiring works. Just lack on any in depth or specific cable types that would be needed.
michaeldowling83 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 07:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
If you intend a central equipment cabinet first draw a house plan of where TVs will be and then where the wires will need to run. Currently it is best to run conduit for the wiring in the walls especially if you have an interest in ultrahigh definition TV because wiring for distances beyond 25 feet is hit or miss. Chance are that you will need to add or change wiring.

There is a lot to consider but by starting with a design on paper you will begin to focus on issues and costs.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
If you intend a central equipment cabinet first draw a house plan of where TVs will be and then where the wires will need to run. Currently it is best to run conduit for the wiring in the walls especially if you have an interest in ultrahigh definition TV because wiring for distances beyond 25 feet is hit or miss. Chance are that you will need to add or change wiring.

There is a lot to consider but by starting with a design on paper you will begin to focus on issues and costs.
Thanks for the reply. I hadn't read anywhere about using conduit before but that does sound like a good idea to reduce interference. Or is there another reason for it? I definitely intend to use UHD Tv's. I have done a rough sketch but without knowing the types of or how many different wires that should be used it is hard to determine the extent of the project. The majority of the wires will extend beyond the 30' you mentioned. How does that complicate things?
michaeldowling83 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldowling83 View Post
Thanks for the reply. I hadn't read anywhere about using conduit before but that does sound like a good idea to reduce interference. Or is there another reason for it? I definitely intend to use UHD Tv's. I have done a rough sketch but without knowing the types of or how many different wires that should be used it is hard to determine the extent of the project. The majority of the wires will extend beyond the 30' you mentioned. How does that complicate things?
The conduit is to make it easy to pull and change cable. Cable is the current weak link in UHD which needs 10 to 18 gigabits per second. HDMI is not good with long distances and HDBaseT is not adequate yet for 18 gigabits.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #5 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
The conduit is to make it easy to pull and change cable. Cable is the current weak link in UHD which needs 10 to 18 gigabits per second. HDMI is not good with long distances and HDBaseT is not adequate yet for 18 gigabits.
At that point, I am guessing fiber optic HDMI cables would be the only option for any distances over 30'?
michaeldowling83 is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 08:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldowling83 View Post
At that point, I am guessing fiber optic HDMI cables would be the only option for any distances over 30'?
Take the time to consider the player, the media and the cost of running fiber. I have not looked into fiber. I am only this far into my project because I am remodeling my house and I had walls open. But I am stymied to find a NAS or a matrix switch that would handle UHD premium. What I am suggesting is to think through the whole chain of equipment and where you would like to get at this point.

It might be possible for UHD media to remain compressed and be processed by a display but I do not know if that will become possible.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #7 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
Take the time to consider the player, the media and the cost of running fiber. I have not looked into fiber. I am only this far into my project because I am remodeling my house and I had walls open. But I am stymied to find a NAS or a matrix switch that would handle UHD premium. What I am suggesting is to think through the whole chain of equipment and where you would like to get at this point.

It might be possible for UHD media to remain compressed and be processed by a display but I do not know if that will become possible.
From what I have found. The fiber is insanely expensive. Where would I start as far as equipment I would need? Would I need a separate receiver for each zone I intend to send video to? I plan on having 6 total video zones (Master, BR1, BR2, Office, LR, Outside) and 9 total audio zones (6 already mentioned, plus Dining room, Breakfast nook, and kitchen). I would like for the audio in each zone that has audio and video have the option to play the audio from that zone video or from the master input. I'm not sure if the attached picture will make any sense but that is what I am seeing in my head. I just don't know what parts are needed to make it work.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160719_130138.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	118.7 KB
ID:	1554353  
michaeldowling83 is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 11:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldowling83 View Post
From what I have found. The fiber is insanely expensive. Where would I start as far as equipment I would need? Would I need a separate receiver for each zone I intend to send video to? I plan on having 6 total video zones (Master, BR1, BR2, Office, LR, Outside) and 9 total audio zones (6 already mentioned, plus Dining room, Breakfast nook, and kitchen). I would like for the audio in each zone that has audio and video have the option to play the audio from that zone video or from the master input. I'm not sure if the attached picture will make any sense but that is what I am seeing in my head. I just don't know what parts are needed to make it work.
As I said I have taken the opportunity to install conduit. At the end of this year Google fiber may be available to me. At that point I plan to run the internet from the equipment room to the bedrooms and the great room and evaluate UHD streaming alternatives. I hope to set up either my direct attached storage unit or a NAS as a media server. I plan to continue with my plasma TV until I deem UHD premium TVs, media, and players to be ready enough for a great room free standing implementation. And then who knows.

I am not that hot for whole house audio and controls. But here is a article on Sonos and alternative: http://myeasytek.com/2016/07/07/sono...-alternatives/

I think you are wise to be thinking the whole system through. I look forward to reading your posts.
JT Babin likes this.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 07-19-2016, 03:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mount Prospect, IL
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldowling83 View Post
Hello everyone. I am new to the forums and don't have extensive knowledge of a/v specifics. I did some searching prior to posting this but please let me know if this has been posted before or should be posted somewhere else.
Welcome!

Quote:
I would like to set up my entire house with a centralized a/v system. I have 3 bedrooms, 1 office, and the usual kitchen, living room, dining room, breakfast nook, and back porch. What I am envisioning is to have all the components (Directv boxes, XBox, Computer, Blu-ray, etc. in one closet and be able to access them on any tv in the house and control from any room in the house and from a master location.
Do you plan to have a TV hooked up to the central AV system in each one of these rooms? One way to mitigate cost is to decide on which TV's are most important and have them able to access each one of the sources through the central system. Auxillary TV's, ones that you will typically only watch cable/sat, can each have their own STB, often times even behind the TV. This will save on central equipment and the remotes to control the system. Maybe each one of your TV's is critical viewing, only you can decide that, but it's something to consider because this isn't really cheap.

Quote:
I haven't been able to find much describing the necessary components or wiring. I have read a lot about using cat5 wiring but I'm not sure how that works in regards to connecting to the tv's and speakers.
Wiring: When I am consulting I usually advise 2 Cat6 + 2 RG-6 to each location. This will allow you to utilize either local STB's or connect to your central matrix with the Cat6. It also provides the oppurtunity for an audio return via the RG-6. This is overkill but the most flexible. Realistically you can get away with 1 Cat6, but at min I suggest 2 so that you don't have to use HDBT for ethernet/control which adds a lot of expense.

Quote:
The only way I have been able to think of designing it (which I know has to be the worst way possible) is to have a stack of receivers (1 for each location) and having each component run into splitters that disburse to each receiver. Then having IR extender/wall plates to manage the remotes.
If you mean AVR's, please don't do this! You can use a product like the Atlona UHD-PRO3-HD66M which can de-embed your audio and put into your WHA system. Or, you can use a matrix that doesn't provide de-embedding and use the RG-6 with a DAC and the optical output of the TV (don't use the stereo output, it's terrible). Either way, that stack of receivers is either going to be a nightmare to control because they are cheap or they will be even more expensive than the matrix I'm suggesting. There's Monoprice stuff available, but that's not my in my realm of expertise. This situation calls for an HDBT matrix with receivers on the TV end of it, if it ends up being too expensive I suggest changing the plan instead of trying to find a way around it.

Quote:
Could someone help me with the parts necessary to complete what I want and any helpful tips on wiring. I am fairly handy and have a decent sense of how wiring works. Just lack on any in depth or specific cable types that would be needed.
I mean, this is a dead setup for a shameless plug, but I'll avoid it.

Here's my wiring standards that I use for my consulting jobs. You'll have to adapt it to your situation. Sorry for the HTML use instead of a PDF, but I kept the PDF off the website for SEO purposes. All the info is there though and it's good info.

So, @Postmoderndesign has a point about HDBT and 4k. Currently most HDBT products are rated 10-12GB/s. This bandwidth can pass 4K 4:2:0 24hz or something to that affect, 4K HDR 4:4:4 60hz doesn't really exist content wise, and I doubt even hardware wise (except kaleidescape, which is awesome). That could change soon though, but I'm not banking on it. I'm sure we'll see some 18 GB/s products at CEDIA this year, but we won't know until September. This shouldn't change your wiring any, I expect full 18 Gb/s over Cat6, but I don't know for sure. Maybe stub conduit to accessible locations (attics, mech rooms) so that you could pull whatever you need to later. I'm going to be honest I've only ever done one job with fiber and I didn't do the terminations.

To manage price you should consider the importance of each display and what sources it's able to receive. There's going to be some middle ground on having everything available everywhere and using some equipment, though in the central rack, to only play to one or two displays.

Control will be another important question. I suggest you go with a professional product unless you really really want to learn lots of stuff. I'm biased though because that's I eat by programming systems. Here's my product of choice. Either way you go, pro or diy, I would definitely suggest having a full plan before finishing your pre-wire. It's not that it'll change the wiring all that much, but you might pick up on a few wires you missed, and you should always be working towards one end result anyway.

I hope this helps you!
tgrinch likes this.

James Babin - System designer myEasytek
Last Post: Low Voltage Wiring Guide
JT Babin is offline  
post #10 of 25 Old 07-20-2016, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thanks for all the great info James. Prioritizing the tvs is a good idea. It's starting to look like I might just being starting with the audio for now due to the costs and the lag in 4k HDR technology. I'm still confused on how to use cat6 wiring. Could you give me a quick example of how to connect it? For instance if I have the multizone controller/amplifier in room A and a TV with STB in room B. I am guessing the speakers in Room B would be run to the controller/amplifier in room A using speaker wire. Then a Cat6 wire would be run from the controller/amplifier to behind the tv in Room B. How does the Cat6 wire connect to the tv to send the sound to the controller/amplifier? How does the Cat6 wire connect to the controller/amplifier? Are there specific types of controllers I should be looking for to handle Cat6?
michaeldowling83 is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old 07-20-2016, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldowling83 View Post
Thanks for all the great info James. Prioritizing the tvs is a good idea. It's starting to look like I might just being starting with the audio for now due to the costs and the lag in 4k HDR technology. I'm still confused on how to use cat6 wiring. Could you give me a quick example of how to connect it? For instance if I have the multizone controller/amplifier in room A and a TV with STB in room B. I am guessing the speakers in Room B would be run to the controller/amplifier in room A using speaker wire. Then a Cat6 wire would be run from the controller/amplifier to behind the tv in Room B. How does the Cat6 wire connect to the tv to send the sound to the controller/amplifier? How does the Cat6 wire connect to the controller/amplifier? Are there specific types of controllers I should be looking for to handle Cat6?
This is the the controller/amplifier I was looking at: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10761

If I got 2 of these and stacked them I should be able to get up to 12 zones, right? And, be able to listen to any of the sources from any room or 1 source from all the rooms?
michaeldowling83 is offline  
post #12 of 25 Old 07-21-2016, 03:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked: 335
HDMI over CAT - you have a device which coverts the HDMI signal to run over a CAT cable at the Source end of the CAT cable and a device to convert back to HDMI at the other end of the CAT cable (usually this device is powered over the CAT cable).

HDBT - sends uncompressed Video (with audio) and in some systems IR and RS232 to multiple Displays or Soundbar/AVR's.

HD over LAN - is another option and potentially more flexible. HD over LAN has to use compression (though the latest processing chips are very good) and with multi-cast systems the 'processing' is done at the 'Receiver' device in each Zone, which means you can start with an UHD 4K Source and share it to a mix of UHD 4K (2160p) TV's, FullHD (1080p) TV's and HD Ready (1080i/720p) TV's.

Stacking Matrix - does not usually work as required unless the first Matrix has a set of passthru ports or you use a splitter on each Source to 'mirror' its output to the two Matrix.

Joe

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

RuiPro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
Joe Fernand is offline  
post #13 of 25 Old 07-21-2016, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Would you elaborate on HD over LAN hardware capabilities and how it differs from matrix switches? Or point me to further reading.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old 07-21-2016, 04:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked: 335
HDMI Matrix - will tend to be 'fixed' in terms of the number of Input and Output ports, will 'mirror' the Source signal to all Sink (end) points and can become a long term liability as they tend to be built around a single PCB 'motherboard' so can prove costly to repair once out of warranty.

HD over LAN - is more 'granular' and utilises readily available Gigabit Network switch as the Hub of a custom sized 'Matrix' which can be easily changed and repaired. Whilst HD over LAN started out as an option for Commercial applications (as it employed relatively 'visible' processing of the Source signal) the latest generation kit is quite different and for most folk offers a range of attractive features including 'processing' the Video at each end point, allowing you to mix UHD, FullHD and HD Ready Displays no matter which Source device(s) you are using.

With HD over LAN you have a 1 x Transmitter (TX) per Source plus a 1 x Receiver (RX) per Display.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
dunnar likes this.

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

RuiPro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
Joe Fernand is offline  
post #15 of 25 Old 07-22-2016, 07:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
I have considered the Atlona AT-UHD-H2H-44M 4x4 UHD HDMI Matrix Switcher and it is expensive, beyond the number of zones I want to use currently and lacks UHD premium 18 gbs, (which may be a while off and yet to have and evaluated product base.)

I have a gigabit Ethernet switch.

Please identify the latest generation kit of HD over LAN. I would like to evaluate the product for my needs. Are you suggesting the Octava HD Video over LAN/IP Extender (HDDSX-EX) which seems to top out at 1080p

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch

Last edited by Postmoderndesign; 07-22-2016 at 07:26 AM.
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old 07-22-2016, 08:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
I may have answered my own question. 10 gps switches are still expensive and so UHD matrix switching is likely to remain expensive until cost comes down.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old 07-22-2016, 09:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Whole Home Audio/Video setup questions

The HD DSX is our VLAN HD over LAN solution for commercial systems catering for up to 1080p.

The Pro DSX is our Mulit-cast HD over LAN solution for up to 2160p.

A CISCO SG300 or SG500 is sufficient for either system.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

RuiPro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
Joe Fernand is offline  
post #18 of 25 Old 07-22-2016, 10:05 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: NW Houston, TX
Posts: 10,851
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
I may have answered my own question. 10 gps switches are still expensive and so UHD matrix switching is likely to remain expensive until cost comes down.
HD-over-LAN doesn't require >1Gb Ethernet... Those systems re-compress the HDMI signal to much less than 1Gbs for transmission (and the current generation of these systems are doing a very good job). Gigabit capability is very widespread, and as I said before about cat5e cabling, because of the broad adoption, it's likely we'll see solutions for AV distribution stay within the limits of those technologies...

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
NOTE: If you find dead photo / blocked Photobucket links in any of my posts, please PM me and I will fix them.
jautor is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old 07-23-2016, 11:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
I appreciate both of your responses and I am trying to understand HD over LAN vs a matrix switch like the Atlona AT-UHD-H2H-44M 4x4 UHD HDMI Matrix Switcher.

I do not understand either product well enough for a revealing inquiry and so will begin with a general query.

At this point I have an equipment cabinet in the second floor HVAC room with a patch panel, a gigabyte switch, and an Uninterrupted Power Supply, conduit to three bedrooms, the great room and a ground floor equipment room where the internet, probably google fiber, will come into the house.

At this point I have a plasma panel I am planning to move to the master bedroom when I purchase a UHD TV for the great room. I would like to start a movie in the great room and then finish it in the master bedroom. I prefer an audio format like dts-hd and have 7.1 sound in the great room. Mainly I watch OTA TV, blu-ray and dvd movies and Netflix. Video and audio quality top my list, whole house audio is not a current goal.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of HD over LAN vs. the Matrix switch?

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #20 of 25 Old 07-26-2016, 02:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Matrix - both systems offer you a Matrix functionality (any Source to any Display).

HDMI Matrix - the Atlona unit is HDMI In > HDMI Out so ideal where you have relatively short HDMI cable runs installed.

HDBT - Atlona suggest you can add its HDBT Extender (transmitter + receiver) to one or more of the HDMI Outputs where you need to run over longer distances, HDBT runs on a single CAT cable.

HDBT Matrix - for residential systems running all outputs over CAT cables I'm sure you will find Atlona has a Matrix with the HDBT Transmitters embedded in the Matrix chassis. This is a neater solution and usually offers better Control and Settings options. With this system you have HDMI In > RJ45 Out on the Matrix and a Zone Receiver (usually PoE) with RJ45 In > HDMI Out.

HD over LAN - utilises a Source Transmitter (HDMI In > RJ45 Out) per Source, a Gigabit network switch (as the Hub) and a Zone Receiver (RJ45 In > HDMI Out) per Display (all PoE).

Being so 'granular' it is very easy to build an exact size Matrix, can be easily expanded at any time and if you ever have a failure you only have to replace a single item - unlike a conventional Matrix/HDBT Matrix where a problem in the main motherboard can spell curtains for the whole chassis as they are very difficult to repair.

HD over LAN - comes in a few versions 'multi-cast' being the best option, the video switching is performed in the Zone Receivers as is signal processing so you can have a mix of UHD 4K and non-UHD 4K Displays in a system.

HD over LAN - does require a degree of image processing/compression, the latest systems are very good, you have to try hard to spot the processing.

Both types of Matrix ('over HDBT' and 'over LAN') can offer you various control options for the Matrix and will also offer you option to use IR to control the Source devices - the standard HDMI Matrix will not normally offer IR control of the Sources.

I see the market shifting to HD over LAN for its scaleability and longer term repair simplicity - we ceased production of our HDBT Matrix in 2015 and now concentrate on HD over LAN.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dunnar likes this.

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

RuiPro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
Joe Fernand is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old 07-26-2016, 06:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Thanks for your explanation. I plan to print it out and go through it paragraph by paragraph. What really had confused me was that the Atlona matrix also had extenders while HD over LAN looked to be just the extenders alone.

I was beginning to think that while I had taken the opportunity of remodeling to run conduit throughout the house it may be years before I can benefit fully. I can use the conduit to run gigabit internet soon. But I was thinking it may be years before UHD from a disc to displays throughout the house would be inexpensive if possible at all.

Now I want to understand the alternatives before I begin buying products. You stated: "HD over LAN - does require a degree of image processing/compression, the latest systems are very good, you have to try hard to spot the processing.

Both types of Matrix ('over HDBT' and 'over LAN') can offer you various control options for the Matrix and will also offer you option to use IR to control the Source devices - the standard HDMI Matrix will not normally offer IR control of the Sources.
"

Those who are in the world of HD over LAN need to think about potential customers who are getting their internet from U-verse over POTS, not category cable, and have one display in a great room set up for 1080p and 7.1 audio. The world of HD over LAN is a whole other universe and I want to get comfortable with the compression artifacts and control options of the available products.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #22 of 25 Old 07-26-2016, 10:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked: 335
CAT cable - is simply being used as a low cost transport medium by both HDBT and HD over LAN.

HDMI - is simply not reliable once you go past 8 to 10m for 1080p and anything over 6m is a lottery with UHD 4K (2160p).

Going 'over CAT' - has been the norm for the last four or five years where you wanted to 'extend' an HDMI signal to one or more rooms (Zones) around your house.

HD over LAN - is becoming the 'way forward' as being able to scale to just the right number of Inputs and Outputs is far more cost effective than having a 'fixed' 4x4' 8x8' or '16x16' chassis (which is the norm with HDBT).

SMART TV's - and low cost streaming devices are also reshaping the way system designers have to approach a 'whole house' system and again the latest generation HD over LAN makes a lot of sense.

Broadband - how you get that into the house is pretty much irrelevant when discussing distributing HD around the house.

Cabling - we are potentially using CAT cabling for two purposes in most systems (handily you can order CAT6 in multiple colours ).

Cable 1. To connect each Source/TV/AVR/Projector to your Broadband Router/Switch for network access.

and

Cable 2. To extend the HDMI Output of any Source you wish to share around the house to multiple Zones (using some form of central Hub).

The Network signal and HDMI signals are best kept on two separate wired 'networks'.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
dunnar likes this.

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

RuiPro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
Joe Fernand is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old 07-26-2016, 12:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Postmoderndesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,022
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 481 Post(s)
Liked: 275
I think what I have been building is consistent with the scheme you laid out.

I have not yet pulled 3 cat6a and 2 RG6 and stereo speaker wire to my great room, 3 bedrooms and the pool utility room from my HVAC/Laundry room 19" wall mounted equipment cabinet. Pulling wire and terminating is my next step.

The equipment cabinet currently has a patch panel, a gigabit switch and an uninterrupted power supply. I am planning on adding a network attached storage unit media server/backup. I was also thinking about adding a matrix switch but now I am considering HD over LAN

I plan to use one cat6a for the internet and the second for a uhd blu-ray player although I am unsure if the blu-ray player will uncompress the blu-ray and then the HD over LAN transmitter will then recompress the signal. And when you to refer to hub that means to me that the movie cannot be directed to a specific receiver/display.

The third cat6a will be used for future developments.

One RG6 will be for OTA TV and the second RG6 is for control. I am unsure about control.

I have a foggy notion using the speaker wire for a whole house audio system.

I would like you to comment on my plan, the blu-ray player and the remote control possibilities with HD over LAN.

Thanks, this is helpful.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch

Last edited by Postmoderndesign; 07-26-2016 at 12:31 PM.
Postmoderndesign is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 07-26-2016, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked: 335
HD over LAN - the basic configuration is Source > Transmitter > Gigabit Switch > Zone Receiver > Display* with as many Transmitters as you have Sources and Receivers as you have Displays.

*There may also be a Soundbar or AVR between the Zone Receiver and the TV.

Gigabit Switch - this is not the Switch you use for your Network traffic, potentially you will end up with two Switch's in your Rack.

Sources - your Set-top, DVD, BD, UHD BD, Streamer... can be Centralised or Dispersed or a mix of the two.

Sources - will Output Video plus Audio via HDMI, which is then Input to the Transmitter unit.

Sources - once the HDMI from the Source is connected to a Transmitter to you can view the Source on any Display device.

System - you can (within reason) have as many Sources and Displays as you require, simply ensure you have a large enough Gigabit Switch** to cater for any eventual 'expansion' you may envisage.

** On larger commercial systems where you generally have more Displays than Sources you can 'stack' multiple Gigabit Switch to achieve a very large numbers of Displays.

HD over LAN - offers various 'Control' options.

IR - some systems allow you to connect an IR Receiver head at each TV and then an IR Blaster at each Source and use OEM or a Programmable Remote at each Display for a low cost solution.

Tablet - other folk will prefer an iOS or Android Tablet in one or all Zones; you can either control just the Source to Display 'Switching' (using the supplied App.) control the Sources using individual Apps (supplied by each manufacturer) or combine all Control into a single App*** from the likes of iRule (DIY) or On Controls (you hire a programmer).

*** Many devices are now IP enabled. Where that is not the case you can add a low cost IP2IR device as required.

RS232 - other folk will be employing a Control solution from the likes of AMX, Crestron, C4, Elan - any of these systems can control the 'Virtual Matrix' using the LAN or RS232.

Joe
dunnar likes this.

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

RuiPro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
Joe Fernand is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 08-03-2016, 10:25 AM
Member
 
dunnar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 11
  1. Are there any HD over LAN solutions where the receiver can output [email protected]?
  2. Where does the AVR get located? Looks like it sits between the RX and the display which means it wouldn't be located in a centralized A/V rack, right?
dunnar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Home A/V Distribution

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off