Need advice on taking over control of a "Control4" setup - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 48 Old 06-20-2019, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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The cut & paste below is all the information I see on the customer console. I can't tell if the customer portal can "see" the controller or not. It doesn't show current software version, but it does say that the software needs to be updated (maybe implying that it can see the current version).

CUT & PASTE FROM PORTAL:
Account: ********* No recent check-in. Controller may be offline.
Smart Home OS 2 Update available
4Sight Subscribe

The controller is plugged via Ethernet directly into the Wifi router my macbook is connecting to, so it should be able to connect. I rebooted the router and the controller, the controller has the "power" and "link" light lit solid. Strohj had PM'ed me when I started looking at this last visit (when the thread started), so I'll reach out to him to see if he can be assigned the dealer.
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post #32 of 48 Old 06-20-2019, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I should add that the Wifi network name has probably been changed since the setup was first done, but given that the Control 4 devices have always been connected via Ethernet, then it seems like I should still be able to see everything (or at least the C4 controller as a starting point).
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post #33 of 48 Old 06-20-2019, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: I do see the C4AirPlay as a device when I look for bluetooth devices on the iPhone, so at least something is breathing. I have no idea whether BTAirPlay is from the controller, the media streamer, or the 4 zone amp.

I don't have time to test connecting to that now, but will try later.
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post #34 of 48 Old 06-21-2019, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp View Post
The cut & paste below is all the information I see on the customer console. I can't tell if the customer portal can "see" the controller or not. It doesn't show current software version, but it does say that the software needs to be updated (maybe implying that it can see the current version).

CUT & PASTE FROM PORTAL:
Account: ********* No recent check-in. Controller may be offline.
Smart Home OS 2 Update available
4Sight Subscribe

The controller is plugged via Ethernet directly into the Wifi router my macbook is connecting to, so it should be able to connect. I rebooted the router and the controller, the controller has the "power" and "link" light lit solid. Strohj had PM'ed me when I started looking at this last visit (when the thread started), so I'll reach out to him to see if he can be assigned the dealer.
If Strohj can't help you, let me know and I'll help you out.
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post #35 of 48 Old 06-22-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mntneer View Post
If Strohj can't help you, let me know and I'll help you out.
I haven't heard back from my message to Strohj. I think I still need to do some work to get the network alive before anyone can help remotely (see next post).
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post #36 of 48 Old 06-22-2019, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I spent yesterday soldering a new fuse into the Denon AVR-X1100W AVR. The display was totally black, making it impossible to diagnose anything related to the AVR. With the new fuse, I can see much better what is going on with the network. With the AVR alone, taking Control 4 out of the picture, the network doesn't transmit/receive data regardless of whether I use WiFi or direct Ethernet cable into the router. The AVR WiFi does connect, and the ethernet shows a link, but running Pandora on the AVR still says "no network" either way.

I think the reason the network doesn't connect is because the devices were set up with static IP addresses. I suspect static IP's are preferable for C4, but I think that's why they can't access the network even when plugged directly into the WiFi router ethernet ports.

The Denon has the following settings:

DHCP: off
IP: 10.0.1.73
Mask 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 10.0.1.0

From the front panel display, the C4 4-zone amp has the same settings except the IP is 10.0.1.72. The C4 controller doesn't have a front panel so I can't see it, but it's almost certainly "71" or "70" (the C4 streamer also has an address I'm sure).

I don't know if this WiFi router was ever used with the C4, so it may not be set up properly. I'm not sure what I need to do on the WiFi router to make it work with those static addresses. I also have a Netgear gigabit switch that was originally used -- I can put that back in if that will make the static IP addresses work.

The only computer I have here is a Macbook Pro, that has only ******* USB-C ports and no Ethernet, so I can't connect directly to the WiFi router for admin access.

.

Last edited by pjp; 06-22-2019 at 01:04 PM.
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post #37 of 48 Old 06-22-2019, 01:01 PM
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Static networking isn't the problem. It is required for a control system.
The network isn't configured properly.
the Gateway is screwy. 10.0.001.00...that should be 10.0.1.0
And not sure if that is correct.
You need to get a network savvy friend to give you a hand.
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post #38 of 48 Old 06-22-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothtlk View Post
Static networking isn't the problem. It is required for a control system.
The network isn't configured properly.
the Gateway is screwy. 10.0.001.00...that should be 10.0.1.0
And not sure if that is correct.
You need to get a network savvy friend to give you a hand.
That's just my lazy typing and also some differences in the way the equipment displays the IP address (some equipment displays 3 digits always and some just show the non-zero digits). So 10.0.1.0 is the same as 10.0.001.00, it's just my typing. I do think that anything that is set up is probably correct, but suspect the WiFi router has been changed out by the cable company and may not have been set up for this system.

In my younger days, I designed the global network that was used by the vast majority of banks and brokerage houses for mission-critical real-time stock trading, but that was a while ago and it was based telecom class routers. I haven't done anything with creating static addresses on a WiFi router/network -- so I'm a newbie at that, but I am familiar with network principles (gateway, mask, ...).
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post #39 of 48 Old 06-23-2019, 12:24 PM
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Nothing is reaching the public internet because the gateway is wrong. With a /24 the network address is x.x.x.0, the gw should be an actual IP, like a x.x.x.1 or x.x.x.254.

If the Wi-Fi is broadcasting hop on it (even if there's no internet) and check to see what IP your firewall/router is giving you. Jump into the gateway IP with a web browser and fix the network first. There's plenty of free software out there to scan that network from your phone or your MAC
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post #40 of 48 Old 06-23-2019, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatenbacktolife View Post
Nothing is reaching the public internet because the gateway is wrong. With a /24 the network address is x.x.x.0, the gw should be an actual IP, like a x.x.x.1 or x.x.x.254.

If the Wi-Fi is broadcasting hop on it (even if there's no internet) and check to see what IP your firewall/router is giving you. Jump into the gateway IP with a web browser and fix the network first. There's plenty of free software out there to scan that network from your phone or your MAC
Ok guys, I suck. I had the wrong information listed. Sorry for wasting your time with bad info -- here is the correct info:

DHCP: off
IP: 10.0.1.73
Mask 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 10.0.1.1
Primary DNS: 10.0.1.1
Secondary DNS: 8.8.8.8
Proxy: off

I suspect the above is ok because nobody was able to change the Denon settings with the display out until I put in the new fuse, so these are likely the same settings as when it was working.

The good news is that I was able to get into the Wifi router to see what is going on, and it seems to be as expected -- the WiFi router isn't handling the static addresses. The 10.0.1.x devices show up on the network map, but they don't transmit data:



I tried going into Advanced LAN setup to add the static addresses, but it won't let me assign any devices outside of the cable-provider's subnet. When I try to add it, it gives me the error message that the "IP address must fall within the DHCP range". I want to keep DHCP for all the iphones/ipads/chrome/etc devices that connect to the WiFi, and I probably can't change the cable network addresses, so I'm not sure how to add in support for the 10.0.1.X network on the Netgear WiFi router.

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post #41 of 48 Old 06-23-2019, 01:47 PM
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Looks like devices grabbing DHCP are on 192.168.0.0/24 network?

You will need to either change the router to 10.0.1.0 network and set DHCP scope accordingly or change IPs on all those .10 network devices to 192.168.0.0 network.

Option 1 will be easier and less time consuming. I would set LAN on your router to 10.0.1.1, mask to 255.255.255.0. Since it looks like you have static IPs on some of those devices, I would set DHCP scope to start at x.x.x.100, or somewhere after those static IPs are assigned.

There's no way to get those .10 devices talking to internet without putting them on a different VLAN or setting up some static routing which would be dumb for what you're trying to accomplish here.

I would also look at the WAN interface settings on that device and make sure you are getting an actual public IP on that interface. If you're not sure what that looks like post it here. It wouldn't be beyond that someone dropped this device behind an already existing firewall/router that is already set to 10.0.1.1. Make sure your'e not getting an IP in that range on the WAN port.
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post #42 of 48 Old 06-23-2019, 01:48 PM
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You need to change the router to use the 10.0.1.1 address that the static devices are expecting.
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post #43 of 48 Old 06-23-2019, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. I can easily change it to 10.0.1.1. I guess there is some VLAN stuff going on at the cable provider since 10.0.1.x and 192.168.0.x are not unique ID's (to say the least).

I will probably wait until tomorrow when the ethernet adaptor I ordered for the macbook arrives. Right now I am accessing the Wifi router through the Internet, and I'm afraid of being landlocked if something goes wrong with internet accerss after changing the address. I assume all will work and the macbook will just re-DHCP to some 10.0.1.x address, but I don't want to risk not being able to get back in.
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post #44 of 48 Old 06-25-2019, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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EDIT: Disregard the "grayed out" text below. After changing the router to 10.0.1.1 / 255.255.255.0 and specifying 101-254 DHCP range, and resetting the C4 controller and Denon, they do now appear on the network and are transmitting data. It looks like you don't need to define anything in the Wifi router, it will just take the static addresses (even though the Netgear C6300BD owners manuals says you need to convert static IP devices to DHCP).

The iPhone C4 app now gives me the message "Legacy App Discontinuecd" (the system you are trying to connect is not supported by the current mobile app) <- I am running the app for OS 2.

The Denon prompted me to update firmware, showing it's on the network. Also internet radio now works.

I received the macbook ethernet adapter and changed the router address/network to 10.0.1.1 / 255.255.255.0 and set the DHCP range from 10.0.1.101 - 254. The network map looks the same regarding the C4 devices -- it doesn't show the C4 devices transmitting and I can't connect to them yet. The DHCP devices do have IP addresses starting at 10.0.1.101 as expected with the change and the C4 devices and Denon are on the same network (10.0.1.71, 10.0.1.73, etc).

I don't know whether it is necessary to specifically define the static IP devices for the static addresses to work, but when i try to add the static addresses for the C4/Denon, it surprisingly gives me the error "Address must be within the defined DHCP range". Looking through the owners manual for the Netgear C6300BD (https://www.cox.com/content/dam/cox/..._UserGuide.pdf) it seems like it only allows DHCP devices. All references to static seem to say you need to convert it to DHCP. There is reference to defining 1 "trusted" IP that may allow 1 static device to work -- I haven't tried that yet, but I need 4 trusted devices if it does work.

It looks like a pretty heavy duty router, much nicer that the typical cheap boxes I see from cable companies, it's pretty surprising that it doesn't seem to handle static addresses.
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Last edited by pjp; 06-25-2019 at 11:25 AM.
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post #45 of 48 Old 06-25-2019, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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With the network corrected and cables corrected, the system is working through the AVR for radio/bluetooth/internet radio. I didn't try to get the streaming working with other zones since it sounds like the HS45 music bridge will go away with the new software (I assume all of that is now done in the controller unit with the new software).

The SR250 remote is pretty hard to use even for a techie, and I think not teachable to the household members, but I suspect the iPhone app will make it easy (or possible) for them to use once everything is updated.

There were 3 old Wifi routers and a ton of equipment that wasn't needed in the audio closet making it far more difficult to figure out what what was actually used and what wasn't. I got rid of everything not needed and labeled everything I could so now that area is a million times cleaner.

Thank you all for the great help you have provided -- it seemed insurmountable to ever get this working -- even if I brought someone in, it was a complete mess to take over -- now it seams like it is within reach. I would have given up long ago if not for all the great help
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post #46 of 48 Old 06-28-2019, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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We left the Arizona house and I unplugged everything so that renters coming in won't mess with it. I also left a note outlining the network configuration on the Cox WiFi router so that, if the cable guys replace the router, it will hopefully retain the same network settings.

I think the system and network are now in order, so next time we are in Arizona, everything will be ready to upgrade the C4 software and hopefully we will be able to get everything working through the iPhone app. Thanks again for all the help.
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post #47 of 48 Old 07-01-2019, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp View Post
We left the Arizona house and I unplugged everything so that renters coming in won't mess with it. I also left a note outlining the network configuration on the Cox WiFi router so that, if the cable guys replace the router, it will hopefully retain the same network settings.

I think the system and network are now in order, so next time we are in Arizona, everything will be ready to upgrade the C4 software and hopefully we will be able to get everything working through the iPhone app. Thanks again for all the help.
So often, issues with C4 revolve around the network. Sounds like the network there, over the years, became the culprit.

My only advice going forward. Ditch the Modem Router, just use a Modem in bridge mode, and get a dependable router with remote management support.

Best of luck with it.
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post #48 of 48 Old 07-02-2019, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mntneer View Post
So often, issues with C4 revolve around the network. Sounds like the network there, over the years, became the culprit.

My only advice going forward. Ditch the Modem Router, just use a Modem in bridge mode, and get a dependable router with remote management support.

Best of luck with it.
I appreciate all your help. Cox changed to a combined router/modem at some point, but even when the network was correct and the C4 equipment was communicating, we really couldn't get it to work. Best Buy didn't really do a bad job on the install, I don't think, it's just been a continuity issue where they don't have the same people on staff so whoever came out subsequently didn't know what the previous guys did.

It's still wasn't working fully when I left -- radio and bluetooth through the main zone worked, but other zones do not and I didn't try to fix it because I think everything about streaming will change when I get the update software. Now the closet is totally clean -- all obsolete stuff removed, the network is correct, and the Denon display is no longer black, so hopefully next trip it will be possible to get everything functioning. I will definitely need help to update the software and update the configuration (since it sounds like streaming changes a lot with the new software), but I probably won't be there for 6 months or maybe a year.
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