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post #1 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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WHA Speaker locations

In my kitchen/living room area I'm going to be installing 4 speakers. I'm not entirely sure where I want to place them though. Here are my two options:



I like option 1 best (the red) because I get better audio in the dining area and kitchen, but I'm concerned with how it's turned perpendicular to the listening position in the living room area. My guess is that most of the time, both sets of speakers will be on at the same time for the same source. If someone is sitting on a couch there and the audio is on in the kitchen as well am I going to have weird imaging issues?

I don't really care about stereo when in the kitchen, but I might a little bit when listening to stuff on the couch in the living room.
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post #2 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MordredKLB View Post
In my kitchen/living room area I'm going to be installing 4 speakers. I'm not entirely sure where I want to place them though. Here are my two options:



I like option 1 best (the red) because I get better audio in the dining area and kitchen, but I'm concerned with how it's turned perpendicular to the listening position in the living room area. My guess is that most of the time, both sets of speakers will be on at the same time for the same source. If someone is sitting on a couch there and the audio is on in the kitchen as well am I going to have weird imaging issues?

I don't really care about stereo when in the kitchen, but I might a little bit when listening to stuff on the couch in the living room.

I'd suggest that if you can add another pair in the dining room. Then place two over the island in the kitchen and 2 in the living room where option 1 is currently indicated.

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post #3 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 02:23 PM
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You DO NOT want speakers over the island unless you have individual volume control for them. We learned the hard way in our first build where when you had it turned to a level that would meld well with the speaking level of guests in the living room, then it would be obnoxiously loud in the kitchen where no conversation was going on. I don't think music/entertainment should be in/near the dining room, so I vote for Option 2, which allows for a comfortable spillover into the kitchen when you're cooking there.
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post #4 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd suggest that if you can add another pair in the dining room. Then place two over the island in the kitchen and 2 in the living room where option 1 is currently indicated.
I can't really. There are pendent lights going in over the island, and they'd interfere with the speakers and my wife is a hard no having them too close to there (and I agree).
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post #5 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 02:41 PM
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I can't really. There are pendent lights going in over the island, and they'd interfere with the speakers and my wife is a hard no having them too close to there (and I agree).

Well option 1 would be the next best option.

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post #6 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
You DO NOT want speakers over the island unless you have individual volume control for them. We learned the hard way in our first build where when you had it turned to a level that would meld well with the speaking level of guests in the living room, then it would be obnoxiously loud in the kitchen where no conversation was going on. I don't think music/entertainment should be in/near the dining room, so I vote for Option 2, which allows for a comfortable spillover into the kitchen when you're cooking there.
I don't think we'll have individual volume control over the kitchen ones initially, as I'll probably have them tied to the speakers in the living room. Are you saying that reflections from the tile/countertops would make it too loud? We'll have hardwood floors with some rugs in the living area, but not really sure where everything is going to go right now.
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MordredKLB View Post
I don't think we'll have individual volume control over the kitchen ones initially, as I'll probably have them tied to the speakers in the living room. Are you saying that reflections from the tile/countertops would make it too loud? We'll have hardwood floors with some rugs in the living area, but not really sure where everything is going to go right now.

Why tie the kitchen speakers to the living room speakers? If you can, keep them as separate zones. You'll be able to group the zones together based on the streaming device you choose or play them independently. This gives you much more flexibility.

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post #8 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 03:18 PM
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Making them two zones would make sense for purposes of volume control (yes, too many reflective surfaces, and no absorption in the kitchen makes for total sound mess compared to warmer living room area, assuming same volume in both areas), but would not make sense if you had different sources playing in each zone. It's also a waste of resources if you're limited on zone source devices. I think it comes down to whether or not OP wants sound in dining room; if not, then choice 2 it is. Living room is not big (unless it's open to above), so four 8" speakers should be more than enough sound to carry into the kitchen.
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 03:28 PM
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What is the point of these speakers? That is, what will you be listening to?
Is this for music only at background level volumes?
Is this new construction, or are the speakers being added after the build?
If new construction, have you considered just prewiring in several locations?
Why not have separate speakers everywhere considering the cost of speakers?
Do you have ANY rooms above these speaker locations? Remember! Half the sound is going upwards!!!
There is no desire to use any of this as part of a surround sound setup at all in conjunction with the TV, correct?

I would wonder why you wouldn't pick a few zones on the first floor and just wire speaker pairs to them. Get a amplifier and a 1x4 speaker distribution hub with volume control built in and setup audio to all of those destinations as you choose. You can independently control speaker pair volume and pick which ones are on at any time. Maybe add some zones as well if it's new construction - like outside or in a garage. It's extremely cheap to prewire your home during construction.

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post #10 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
Making them two zones would make sense for purposes of volume control (yes, too many reflective surfaces, and no absorption in the kitchen makes for total sound mess compared to warmer living room area, assuming same volume in both areas), but would not make sense if you had different sources playing in each zone. It's also a waste of resources if you're limited on zone source devices. I think it comes down to whether or not OP wants sound in dining room; if not, then choice 2 it is. Living room is not big (unless it's open to above), so four 8" speakers should be more than enough sound to carry into the kitchen.
Living room is roughly 15' x 20' and not open above. I was planning to do 4 8" speakers. I'm not looking for these to get loud or to do any kind of critical listening. It's mainly for ambient music during parties or to duplicate the sound on TV during football games.

Expense is why initially they'll all be one zone. My wife really wants Sonos, and I can't see myself spending for two Connects or Connect:Amps. I'll probably initially wire them both to the same amp, and if it's too loud in the kitchen, I'll figure out another solution. With the tile and quartz counters I'm thinking that sound will carry pretty well into that area no matter what. Then I don't need to worry about odd imaging if I'm sending the feed of the game, and don't have a really loud sound spot back and to the left of everybody in the living room.
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
What is the point of these speakers? That is, what will you be listening to?
Is this for music only at background level volumes?
Is this new construction, or are the speakers being added after the build?
If new construction, have you considered just prewiring in several locations?
Why not have separate speakers everywhere considering the cost of speakers?
Do you have ANY rooms above these speaker locations? Remember! Half the sound is going upwards!!!
There is no desire to use any of this as part of a surround sound setup at all in conjunction with the TV, correct?
It's for music and TV at background levels almost exclusively, primarily while my wife is cooking or we're having parties.
It's new Construction, and I'll be prewiring several spots where I plan to put speakers later in other rooms, but I'm going to install rough-in brackets in the ceiling downstairs this weekend so holes will be cut for them when the drywall goes up. Unless I'm missing something it's not like I can prewire a bunch of spots, and then see where I like the speakers best. Holes have to be cut
There's a family/media room upstairs. I'll be putting Dynaboxes around these.
Won't be used as a surround speaker. That's what the media room upstairs is for.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 03:49 PM
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Holes for speakers can be cut at any time you want. You don't need to install rings at all. Just take tons of photos before drywall goes up, and you can pick and choose where you want to put your speakers in at any point. But, you would be better served with a $50 speaker selector/volume control unit on the front end, and more pairs of speakers than with driving all the speakers at once at the same level.

TV audio will also be bad coming from the ceiling when it should be coming from in front of you. I would put any speakers associated with any TV at the front of the room, near the TV, and use angled speakers to direct audio into the room from near the TV. This sounds better for television, and works well for background music. You can then upgrade to a multi-zone A/V receiver if you want to switch things up in the future nicely.

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post #13 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 05:17 PM
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We have four zones (one for each level in the house and one for the patio) all connected to their own Sonos Connect:Amps. Our layout (with kitchen and island) is similar to your except that the dining room/office/foyer are off the living room area and we have what equates to Choice #2 on your diagram for that floor. Our living room is about 1/2 times larger than yours and four 8" speakers is more than enough to reach into the kitchen, but not be overbearing when the volume is turned up. You don't want sound blasting at you from above in the kitchen. If you really need sound in the kitchen, get the wife a Sonos speaker as a separate zone.
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
TV audio will also be bad coming from the ceiling when it should be coming from in front of you. I would put any speakers associated with any TV at the front of the room, near the TV, and use angled speakers to direct audio into the room from near the TV. This sounds better for television, and works well for background music. You can then upgrade to a multi-zone A/V receiver if you want to switch things up in the future nicely.
No, I'm well aware. Basically the only time this would be reproducing TV is when theres a football game on and we're having a watch party, or my wife wants to listen to CNN or CSPAN while doing **** in the kitchen.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-10-2019, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
We have four zones (one for each level in the house and one for the patio) all connected to their own Sonos Connect:Amps. Our layout (with kitchen and island) is similar to your except that the dining room/office/foyer are off the living room area and we have what equates to Choice #2 on your diagram for that floor. Our living room is about 1/2 times larger than yours and four 8" speakers is more than enough to reach into the kitchen, but not be overbearing when the volume is turned up. You don't want sound blasting at you from above in the kitchen. If you really need sound in the kitchen, get the wife a Sonos speaker as a separate zone.
You've convinced me. I think we can just use Alexa or something similar in the kitchen as needed.
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