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post #1 of 9 Old 02-20-2019, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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simple Amplifier with digital in (or other ideas to avoid full video distribution)

Hey all! I'm moving into a new house and had cat6a wire run all over the place. I exclusively use Kodi (serve all my media from a Synology running MySQL) and have Shield TV's for each TV. My house came with a very basic Control4 setup, but I honestly think I don't need that complicateda setup with HDMI matrix's and audio distributers that they suggest. As it is, my LG OLED turns on whenever a button is on the NVidia TV remote is pressed (through CEC) and seems like the only thing I'd need is a simple amp that can turn on when it receives a signal. However, the problem is, that Audio out would need to traverse a distance and be converted from Digital/Toslink to Ethernet and back. The best I've found so far, is this (https://********/2WAALqD amzn dot to) taking the audio out from the TV, through the ethernet to the audio closet, into the accompanying converter, into this (https://********/2WzYyqF amzn dot to) and then into this amp (http://*******/2Wz5LHw bit dot ly). The extra conversion has me a bit nervous (but maybe that's misplaced anxiety), and I'd love if I was able to find a powerful enough amp that has a Digital In (This is also a possibility http://*******/2RwJwOK bit dot ly but 35w seems a bit light for the speakers...).

I know this is anything but typical and I'm squarepegging it, but I exclusively use the Shield TV (which are Chromecast Vidoes as well). So nothing in my setup really need much changing ANY input would be more than appreciated. Anything I haven't thought of, or even if you think I'm just crazy and I should just get an HDMI matrix. I can totally see that being the case, I just envision control becoming a rather large issue at that point (as I homerun the Shields et al). I was planning on using VSSL for all the speakers that don't have a TV "attached" and I rolled my own OpenHAB RPi setup with Insteon in my condo, so, really, no suggestion is too outlandish.

Last edited by sethfeinberg; 02-21-2019 at 08:47 AM.
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post #2 of 9 Old 02-22-2019, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethfeinberg View Post
Hey all! I'm moving into a new house and had cat6a wire run all over the place. I exclusively use Kodi (serve all my media from a Synology running MySQL) and have Shield TV's for each TV. My house came with a very basic Control4 setup, but I honestly think I don't need that complicateda setup with HDMI matrix's and audio distributers that they suggest. As it is, my LG OLED turns on whenever a button is on the NVidia TV remote is pressed (through CEC) and seems like the only thing I'd need is a simple amp that can turn on when it receives a signal. However, the problem is, that Audio out would need to traverse a distance and be converted from Digital/Toslink to Ethernet and back. The best I've found so far, is this (https://********/2WAALqD amzn dot to) taking the audio out from the TV, through the ethernet to the audio closet, into the accompanying converter, into this (https://********/2WzYyqF amzn dot to) and then into this amp (http://*******/2Wz5LHw bit dot ly). The extra conversion has me a bit nervous (but maybe that's misplaced anxiety), and I'd love if I was able to find a powerful enough amp that has a Digital In (This is also a possibility http://*******/2RwJwOK bit dot ly but 35w seems a bit light for the speakers...).

I know this is anything but typical and I'm squarepegging it, but I exclusively use the Shield TV (which are Chromecast Vidoes as well). So nothing in my setup really need much changing ANY input would be more than appreciated. Anything I haven't thought of, or even if you think I'm just crazy and I should just get an HDMI matrix. I can totally see that being the case, I just envision control becoming a rather large issue at that point (as I homerun the Shields et al). I was planning on using VSSL for all the speakers that don't have a TV "attached" and I rolled my own OpenHAB RPi setup with Insteon in my condo, so, really, no suggestion is too outlandish.
whats each tv set up hardware wise? you mention Shields and you want a receiver but maybe you have 4 TVs and only 1 has a receiver? Do they all have a receiver/extra speakers or any tvs you are using the TV built in speakers? And how many VSSL speakers are you adding outside of the system?

I am a c4 fan personally, so you can just hardware some speakers off a dumb amp and use your C4 to stream audio, no need to buy into VSSL as a platform unless you have reason to want to -and not trying to open up a can of worms here.
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post #3 of 9 Old 02-26-2019, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ezlotogura View Post
whats each tv set up hardware wise? you mention Shields and you want a receiver but maybe you have 4 TVs and only 1 has a receiver? Do they all have a receiver/extra speakers or any tvs you are using the TV built in speakers? And how many VSSL speakers are you adding outside of the system?

I am a c4 fan personally, so you can just hardware some speakers off a dumb amp and use your C4 to stream audio, no need to buy into VSSL as a platform unless you have reason to want to -and not trying to open up a can of worms here.
Sorry for the delay and thanks so much for your response! So I have not purchased any receivers yet (well actually no TV's either, but know which ones i'm getting, just waiting to move in). I have 2 Denon's at home and one I will use for a dedicated Theater (the 4 TV's I mention are in addition to the theater). Each of the 4 TV's has 2 ceiling speakers homerun'ed to the same AV closet as the Cat6a cables behind the TV. Additionally, there are 7 pairs of speakers not connected to a TV (the VSSL speakers) and at least another pair outside (for a total of 8).

Yes "dumb amp": I believe this is what I'm looking for. The issue i've found is that the dumb ones seem to only have analog in and that would require 3 conversions for the audio out of the TV (Optical->cat6a->Optical->analog). Maybe that's not an issue but seems like it might be. Or maybe there's a digital dumb amp out there I just don't know about (why i'm here!).

I appreciate your advice, VSSL seems SUPER easy though, easily connecting to Google Home and Spotify, but I've yet to actually use it, just from what I've heard and understand.
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post #4 of 9 Old 02-26-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethfeinberg View Post
Sorry for the delay and thanks so much for your response! So I have not purchased any receivers yet (well actually no TV's either, but know which ones i'm getting, just waiting to move in). I have 2 Denon's at home and one I will use for a dedicated Theater (the 4 TV's I mention are in addition to the theater). Each of the 4 TV's has 2 ceiling speakers homerun'ed to the same AV closet as the Cat6a cables behind the TV. Additionally, there are 7 pairs of speakers not connected to a TV (the VSSL speakers) and at least another pair outside (for a total of 8).

Yes "dumb amp": I believe this is what I'm looking for. The issue i've found is that the dumb ones seem to only have analog in and that would require 3 conversions for the audio out of the TV (Optical->cat6a->Optical->analog). Maybe that's not an issue but seems like it might be. Or maybe there's a digital dumb amp out there I just don't know about (why i'm here!).

I appreciate your advice, VSSL seems SUPER easy though, easily connecting to Google Home and Spotify, but I've yet to actually use it, just from what I've heard and understand.
so 4 TVs are not using the TV speakers but in ceiling speakers? personally that is not ideal to get 2 channel TV audio from ceiling speakers but anyways...you arent looking for 5.1 out of these set ups or something crazy with just 2 ceiling speakers right? i dont know of a "cheap" way to do it but with Video Storm you could get their Netplay system and a CMX Audio Switch. you would only need AVRs if you wanted "5.1" or some other set up for more important listening/viewing areas. Sources will be centrally located on your network. Speaker wires would go to a dumb amp. The CMX would balance out any audio sync issues. Its clean and neat and it works.
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post #5 of 9 Old 02-27-2019, 01:03 PM
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Stick a simple Soundbar below each of the 4 TV's and if required use the overhead speakers as part of your whole house music system.

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post #6 of 9 Old 03-01-2019, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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so 4 TVs are not using the TV speakers but in ceiling speakers? personally that is not ideal to get 2 channel TV audio from ceiling speakers but anyways...you arent looking for 5.1 out of these set ups or something crazy with just 2 ceiling speakers right? i dont know of a "cheap" way to do it but with Video Storm you could get their Netplay system and a CMX Audio Switch. you would only need AVRs if you wanted "5.1" or some other set up for more important listening/viewing areas. Sources will be centrally located on your network. Speaker wires would go to a dumb amp. The CMX would balance out any audio sync issues. Its clean and neat and it works.
Wait, why are ceiling speakers so "not ideal" for 2 channel 2 audio?

No, nothing crazy in my setup and honestly maybe soundbars would just be easier then i just use the ceiling speakers as more whole house audio speakers (that would only create 1 redundancy in the kitchen. (as I suppose joe fernand suggested i guess)

Video Storm, Netplay AND CMX Audio switch are all concepts/things I've never heard of so thanks! I'll check them out
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post #7 of 9 Old 03-01-2019, 09:28 AM
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Wait, why are ceiling speakers so "not ideal" for 2 channel 2 audio?

No, nothing crazy in my setup and honestly maybe soundbars would just be easier then i just use the ceiling speakers as more whole house audio speakers (that would only create 1 redundancy in the kitchen. (as I suppose joe fernand suggested i guess)

Video Storm, Netplay AND CMX Audio switch are all concepts/things I've never heard of so thanks! I'll check them out
for music ceiling speakers are ok
if you want to watch TV I would not suggest just 2 ceiling speakers
look at any website talking about home theater set ups.
First you have the FRONT left and right channel. then a center channel. ceiling speakers start getting into surround channels. You want the main audio coming at you, not down to you. its how your ears work.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/36-home-v-distribution/2652505-ceiling-speakers-tv-audio.html
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post #8 of 9 Old 03-01-2019, 04:54 PM
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simple Amplifier with digital in (or other ideas to avoid full video distribution)

I’m not aware of any that don’t, but do your TVs have analog audio outs? Or headphone jack outs? If so, you can just use those with a few of these:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3597
(analog audio over cat5)

The only problem might be audio lag. If you have audio lag, I’d suggest separate soundbars at the TVs and just use the ceiling speakers for background music as was already mentioned. You could also play the game of finding some baluns that don’t have lag.

While TV audio from in-ceiling speakers isn’t ideal, it’s totally suitable for casual use, and it sounds like you have a theater for critical viewing. You can always later replace the speakers with ones that can be aimed or are angled towards the listening position. I would just go with it and see if it bothers you before going all out to change it.

Last edited by Lindahl; 03-01-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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post #9 of 9 Old 03-03-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I’m not aware of any that don’t, but do your TVs have analog audio outs? Or headphone jack outs? If so, you can just use those with a few of these:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3597
(analog audio over cat5)

The only problem might be audio lag. If you have audio lag, I’d suggest separate soundbars at the TVs and just use the ceiling speakers for background music as was already mentioned. You could also play the game of finding some baluns that don’t have lag.

While TV audio from in-ceiling speakers isn’t ideal, it’s totally suitable for casual use, and it sounds like you have a theater for critical viewing. You can always later replace the speakers with ones that can be aimed or are angled towards the listening position. I would just go with it and see if it bothers you before going all out to change it.
Yes, Audio lag was def something I was concerned with with the triple conversion (digital audio->cat6a->digital audio->analog->audio) before it got to the dumb amps. If ceiling speakers are really that suboptimal, perhaps I should just add them to whole house audio and go with soundbars.

Thanks so much for the link!

and @ezlotogura thank YOU for the link. I totally understand WHY it's suboptimal I just didn't think it was THAT big of a deal, but the conclusion I reached above, that since soundbars would be easier ANYWAYS, I'm starting to lean towards that...
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