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post #31 of 64 Old 04-02-2020, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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....

One of the most common mistakes people make is thinking they are going to automate lights based on motion, proximity sensors etc, only to discover how horribly irritaing it can be, and all the variables you didn't consider. For example if a motion sensor is tripped, how does it know if you are coming in or out of the room? My advice is at first focus entirely on getting the programming as you like it, then play with other stuff. If you're married you'll thank me . There is nothing worse than a system that starts out irritating people. First make it super simple to operate so it can enhance your and your families life. As an example in my home I have certain young family members who leave the lights on just like I did when I was a kid. Like the 10 lights in the garage. So I can just program that room to shut off after x minutes if the light is left on, knowing that no one ever spends any time in it at night except for pulling in and out. If I wanted to I could add motions to stop that from the possibility of happening if someone is out there, but it's not worth it for the 1 in a 1000 chance someone is in the garage for 30 minutes.



......

Currently there is no music server on the market that I love and I've tested most of them. We use Autonomic primarily but I haven't tested it yet with CH, only Sonos. Lode Audio looks very interesting but I have not tested it yet, they are relatively new to the US.
1. What about using a occupancy sensor as opposed to a motion sensor ? I believe Crestron makes a wireless version of the former. I am not sure how it works (but I seem to recall reading it uses IR and ultrasonic waves ). Would this eliminate the problem you describe ? Where would be a good place for occupancy sensor triggering the lights ? I would think bathroom at night as a start.

2. Whole home audio. It is interesting that Crestron chose Sonos to officially partner with. Do you not feel their music interface is best ? With the Sonos Connect I think you have input options to bring in another external source, if you don’t want the usual built in steaming apps (Pandora, Apple Music)
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post #32 of 64 Old 04-02-2020, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Not really. Not in the sense that you'd be performing true system intercommunications between the two, and getting full feedback on the CH interface. It can be done in reverse, some integrators set up shades and lights in CH, and then the programmer pulls that information into a simpl program (in which case the CH interface is not being used). But that is only done because those integrators find it faster to program that aspect themselves, and then have the programmer do the rest. IOW it's a time issue, you don't gain any added functionalty.

IMO it really doesn't make sense to do what you're suggesting, it would defeat the purpose of CH. I suspect we'll see solutions for this in the future within CH itself, but that's just me, not official, and it's not something I would bet we'll see soon as I think they have more urgent feature priorities, along with adding more brands and components with every update. I suspect a solution for "outliers" will come later. Again, this is supposition on my part, so don't take that as a promise.


Yes to JVC, no to Lumagen. So for now you'd have to control Lumegen via IR.

Okay. So my sense is CH is great, but you need built in support for third party device. Full stop. I hope they do open up a sandbox to allow some custom programming. They don’t even support basic RS232 programming Commands in a module ?
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post #33 of 64 Old 04-02-2020, 02:08 AM
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Okay. So my sense is CH is great, but you need built in support for third party device. Full stop. I hope they do open up a sandbox to allow some custom programming. They don’t even support basic RS232 programming Commands in a module ?
They have both Ethernet and RS232 drivers, but right now if you want to create your own, IR is the way. I just looked at their latest list and currently they support 2000+ devices.

Keep in mind that unless RS232 offers commands not available via IR, it offers nothing over IR - unless you're using an RS232 module and bringing feedback into the system and applying logic to it, which is a lot more than sending strings, in which case we're back to custom programming. Here is a list of IR commands available for the Lumagen, I suspect every command you need is there.

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with you that being able to write an RS232 driver would be nice, and like I said I suspect we'll see something like that at some point. I'm just trying to put things into perspective, it will be a non-issue for most projects. I don't have any components or subsytems in my house which are not already supported. If I had Lumagen for every day use I'd be turning the unit on and off, and selecting AR presets, which can be done with IR.
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post #34 of 64 Old 04-02-2020, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
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They have both Ethernet and RS232 drivers, but right now if you want to create your own, IR is the way. I just looked at their latest list and currently they support 2000+ devices.

Keep in mind that unless RS232 offers commands not available via IR, it offers nothing over IR - unless you're using an RS232 module and bringing feedback into the system and applying logic to it, which is a lot more than sending strings, in which case we're back to custom programming. Here is a list of IR commands available for the Lumagen, I suspect every command you need is there.

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with you that being able to write an RS232 driver would be nice, and like I said I suspect we'll see something like that at some point. I'm just trying to put things into perspective, it will be a non-issue for most projects. I don't have any components or subsytems in my house which are not already supported. If I had Lumagen for every day use I'd be turning the unit on and off, and selecting AR presets, which can be done with IR.

Okay, I guess I shouldn’t discount good old IR. It would be nice to have some 2 way functionality, for example to poll the Lumagen what the auto aspect ratio function is detecting , so the proper triggers could be sent to your motorized masking screen.

How does OS3 implement IR commands- do you just create custom Ir commands with IR strings and group them in a custom device ?
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post #35 of 64 Old 04-02-2020, 02:26 AM
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1. What about using a occupancy sensor as opposed to a motion sensor ? I believe Crestron makes a wireless version of the former. I am not sure how it works (but I seem to recall reading it uses IR and ultrasonic waves ). Would this eliminate the problem you describe ? Where would be a good place for occupancy sensor triggering the lights ? I would think bathroom at night as a start.
Even if it works 100%, which it won't, I again suggest you think about the logic. When you walk out of a room, do you always want the lights to go off? A lot of the time you don't. OK, so do you want them to go off after 15 minutes? What if you don't? What if you're hanging out in the kitchen/family room area and just want those lights on, regardless of whether you're in the room? What if you're taking a nap in the recliner and set the lights to low and the next thing you know they're turning off on you. I'm not discouraging anyone from trying it, I'm just emphasizing it can result in frustration for other household members.

Closets are great. Sometimes halls can work well. Bathrooms are great....if it works. Now If you're laying back taking a bath and suddenly the lights turn off on you and your in pitch black darkness, that might not be so fun.

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2. Whole home audio. It is interesting that Crestron chose Sonos to officially partner with. Do you not feel their music interface is best ? With the Sonos Connect I think you have input options to bring in another external source, if you don’t want the usual built in steaming apps (Pandora, Apple Music)
They partnered with them because it's expedient and they are used more than any other streamer, and support services like Apple Music that no other streamer on the market supports. But you'll still see them supporting all the other streaming players as well, now or in the future.

Yes, I think the Sonos interface is the best of the ones I've used, although it used to be even much better before they "improved it" a few years back. I'm not a big fan though for multipe reasons, one being they do not play well with others. I dislike closed gardens. Companies shouldn't have to hack their product to have full control (which I believe everyone has given up on at this point). They are never going to cater to this market. Autonomic, Denon, Yamaha and others do.

I was actually thinking of doing a youtube video showing the interfaces of each of them in a comparison video. Just as you could't find much for CH, it's almost impossible to find any meaningful videos online showing any of those four products being used. All you can find are ridiculous marketing videos where you see a finger swipe and someone smiling.

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post #36 of 64 Old 04-02-2020, 04:13 PM
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Hi David, your posts have been an eye opener and extremely informative and useful. Again, thank you for your exceptional kindness and willingness to help.

1. I thought the latest occupancy sensors work on the principal of thermal image detection. As long as the sensor sees a sizeable blob of heat (human oriented as opposed to a cat) then it would remain active. However, some of the points you have raised in terms of the logical approach are very valid and make sense. For example, I would never want the lights in the living room to switch-off regardless of occupancy. However, occupancy sensors in wardrobes, toilets and the pantry would make sense. Having said that, everyone including guests are conscious to switch-on the lights when they enter the toilet and switch-off the lights when they exit. I suppose a sensor would make sense if someone exists the toilet and forgets to switch-off the lights. So if no motion/heat is detected for 10 minutes then it would mean someone forgot to switch-off the lights and it would be done by the system. Unless of course someone has a runny stomach and has to be seated in the toilet for 15 minutes or more. I suppose the sensor would have to be set to max sensitivity. Same applies to the pantry, it's not uncommon for someone to stand motionless in the pantry wondering what to cook.

2. Thank you for highlighting Autonomic and Lode. Do these systems enable wired and wireless operation? For wireless, do they work like Sonos which creates it's own mesh network based on the Zigbee protocol where each device is able to receive and transmit data to the closest other device (signal hoping). This move by Sonos is very clever and dead zones can be resolved by using their Boost units. The other thing I like about Sonos is the fact that all the speakers are active and can be wired to a managed switch via ethernet cable. Furthermore, I like the wireless subwoofer integration and the Sonos Subs are nice in terms of aesthetics and performance. Personally I wish the interface was simpler and more intuitive, maybe CH OS3 provides that. What benefits do Autonomic and Lode provide ? Are they based around a central streamer/controller in conjunction with a centralised multi-channel amp and speaker cable runs to passive zone speakers ? What about subwoofer integration ?

3. You mentioned that CH uses RF for lighting and shades should there be a problem with the WiFi infrastructure, I presume this would continue functioning as long as one uses the on-wall panels / switches. Is that right ? Does this work via Z-Wave or Zigbee or is it Crestron's own propriotery RF ?

4. I totally agree with you in regards to bad planning when it comes to WiFi infrastructure. What would you recommend in terms of managed switches and APs ? Ubiquity / UniFi stuff ? I noticed you carry Ruckus AP's too. What has your experience been in terms of reliability and a system that is easy to configure and reliable ?

5. Would CH extend to a dedicated home theatre room via one of the Creston remote controls ? Any advice and recommendations ?
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post #37 of 64 Old 04-03-2020, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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....

3. You mentioned that CH uses RF for lighting and shades should there be a problem with the WiFi infrastructure, I presume this would continue functioning as long as one uses the on-wall panels / switches. Is that right ? Does this work via Z-Wave or Zigbee or is it Crestron's own propriotery RF ?

...

5. Would CH extend to a dedicated home theatre room via one of the Creston remote controls ? Any advice and recommendations ?
I will comment on these two but I would like to hear Dave’s take. I also thank him for his tremendous insight.

If you go wireless for Crestron lighting and shade, they use a proprietary RF protocol called Crestron Infinet. Since we are a new build, we are hard wiring our lighting controls (Horizon keypads , potlights etc) and Crestron roller shades. I understand Infinet is VERY reliable. While of course biased , my integrator had mentioned Hunter Douglas Powerview shades (which uses another RF control technology) can be a nightmare and is very unreliable integrating with Crestron.

In terms of home theater. My plan is to use Crestron to run my home theater. I thought this would be a slam dunk. Crestron is first and foremost an AV company , so why not. I am really disappointed and worried to see that Creston Home OS3 does NOT support my planned projector (JVC RS4500) , video processor (Lumagen Radiance Pro) or pre pro (Monolith HTP-1). Crestron just emailed today and said NO support for any of this on OS3. Quite shocking. And it sounds like there is no ability to customize RS232 routines or IP control on this platform. So o am not sure what we will do. We will see what my integrator suggests (who just started using OS3 after using a custom platform for years). I guess there is always IR but I am not sure how OS3 will handle that with multiples devices.
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post #38 of 64 Old 04-03-2020, 02:13 AM
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I will comment on these two but I would like to hear Dave’s take. I also thank him for his tremendous insight.

If you go wireless for Crestron lighting and shade, they use a proprietary RF protocol called Crestron Infinet. Since we are a new build, we are hard wiring our lighting controls (Horizon keypads , potlights etc) and Crestron roller shades. I understand Infinet is VERY reliable. While of course biased , my integrator had mentioned Hunter Douglas Powerview shades (which uses another RF control technology) can be a nightmare and is very unreliable integrating with Crestron.

In terms of home theater. My plan is to use Crestron to run my home theater. I thought this would be a slam dunk. Crestron is first and foremost an AV company , so why not. I am really disappointed and worried to see that Creston Home OS3 does NOT support my planned projector (JVC RS4500) , video processor (Lumagen Radiance Pro) or pre pro (Monolith HTP-1). Crestron just emailed today and said NO support for any of this on OS3. Quite shocking. And it sounds like there is no ability to customize RS232 routines or IP control on this platform. So o am not sure what we will do. We will see what my integrator suggests (who just started using OS3 after using a custom platform for years). I guess there is always IR but I am not sure how OS3 will handle that with multiples devices.
Blake,

I'll have further information for you on this hopefully by end of Friday. Hang tight...

David
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post #39 of 64 Old 04-03-2020, 03:45 AM
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I will comment on these two but I would like to hear Dave’s take. I also thank him for his tremendous insight.

If you go wireless for Crestron lighting and shade, they use a proprietary RF protocol called Crestron Infinet. Since we are a new build, we are hard wiring our lighting controls (Horizon keypads , potlights etc) and Crestron roller shades. I understand Infinet is VERY reliable. While of course biased , my integrator had mentioned Hunter Douglas Powerview shades (which uses another RF control technology) can be a nightmare and is very unreliable integrating with Crestron.

In terms of home theater. My plan is to use Crestron to run my home theater. I thought this would be a slam dunk. Crestron is first and foremost an AV company , so why not. I am really disappointed and worried to see that Creston Home OS3 does NOT support my planned projector (JVC RS4500) , video processor (Lumagen Radiance Pro) or pre pro (Monolith HTP-1). Crestron just emailed today and said NO support for any of this on OS3. Quite shocking. And it sounds like there is no ability to customize RS232 routines or IP control on this platform. So o am not sure what we will do. We will see what my integrator suggests (who just started using OS3 after using a custom platform for years). I guess there is always IR but I am not sure how OS3 will handle that with multiples devices.
Hi Blake, thank you very much for the information pertaining to Infinet and its reliability, comforting to know.

However, I too am a bit concerned about CH OS3 due to it's lack of support for specialistic and reputable AV devices. JVC projectors and Lumagen processors are popular amongst dedicated home theatre enthusiasts. I hope David will have some good news for us.

By the way, are you still planning your home theatre ? Is it a dedicated home theatre ?
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post #40 of 64 Old 04-03-2020, 05:50 PM
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I will comment on these two but I would like to hear Dave’s take. I also thank him for his tremendous insight.

If you go wireless for Crestron lighting and shade, they use a proprietary RF protocol called Crestron Infinet. Since we are a new build, we are hard wiring our lighting controls (Horizon keypads , potlights etc) and Crestron roller shades. I understand Infinet is VERY reliable. While of course biased , my integrator had mentioned Hunter Douglas Powerview shades (which uses another RF control technology) can be a nightmare and is very unreliable integrating with Crestron.

In terms of home theater. My plan is to use Crestron to run my home theater. I thought this would be a slam dunk. Crestron is first and foremost an AV company , so why not. I am really disappointed and worried to see that Creston Home OS3 does NOT support my planned projector (JVC RS4500) , video processor (Lumagen Radiance Pro) or pre pro (Monolith HTP-1). Crestron just emailed today and said NO support for any of this on OS3. Quite shocking. And it sounds like there is no ability to customize RS232 routines or IP control on this platform. So I am not sure what we will do. We will see what my integrator suggests (who just started using OS3 after using a custom platform for years). I guess there is always IR but I am not sure how OS3 will handle that with multiples devices.
Blake,

I looked into this further for you. Currently things are as I said earlier.

As someone who has no dog in this fight, I think you're ruining the excitement for yourself and doing what hobbyists sometimes tend to do and working yourself up over....not much . Controlling those components with IR (as well as issuing macros, i.e. turn all components on, delay for 2 seconds, select inputs) is a piece of cake. The most important thing about controlling devices with IR OR RS-232 is that they need to have "discrete" commands available. Meaning rather than only having an "input" command that toggles between inputs, it needs "discrete" input commands such as "Roku", "Blu Ray" etc (or input 1, input 2 etc.). For power it should always have "on" and "off" instead of "power". And so on. Pretty much all components worth their salt now have these. The JVC and Lumagen have them. It appears from a quick perusal of the Monolith manual that it also has them. Note: I do not mean they need to have these commands on the remotes themselves, they simply need to be available as IR commands.

Now having said the above, I don't know every aspect of your system so do your due diligence. I have a suggestion. Instead of worrying about whether drivers exist for these devices, or whether you'll be controlling them over RS232, tell the firm you are working with what you expect to be able to do. i.e. "I want these things to happen when I turn on my theater". "I need to be able to perform these functions when I am watching a movie". Be as specific as possible. They should then be able to tell you, either instantly or with a little research, if they can accomplish them.
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post #41 of 64 Old 04-03-2020, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Blake,

I looked into this further for you. Currently things are as I said earlier.

As someone who has no dog in this fight, I think you're ruining the excitement for yourself and doing what hobbyists sometimes tend to do and working yourself up over....not much . Controlling those components with IR (as well as issuing macros, i.e. turn all components on, delay for 2 seconds, select inputs) is a piece of cake. The most important thing about controlling devices with IR OR RS-232 is that they need to have "discrete" commands available. Meaning rather than only having an "input" command that toggles between inputs, it needs "discrete" input commands such as "Roku", "Blu Ray" etc (or input 1, input 2 etc.). For power it should always have "on" and "off" instead of "power". And so on. Pretty much all components worth their salt now have these. The JVC and Lumagen have them. It appears from a quick perusal of the Monolith manual that it also has them. Note: I do not mean they need to have these commands on the remotes themselves, they simply need to be available as IR commands.

Now having said the above, I don't know every aspect of your system so do your due diligence. I have a suggestion. Instead of worrying about whether drivers exist for these devices, or whether you'll be controlling them over RS232, tell the firm you are working with what you expect to be able to do. i.e. "I want these things to happen when I turn on my theater". "I need to be able to perform these functions when I am watching a movie". Be as specific as possible. They should then be able to tell you, either instantly or with a little research, if they can accomplish them.

Ok thanks for putting things in perspective ! It sounds like IR isn’t a bad way to go. Does OS3 also support rs232 macros (similar to how you would program a string of IR codes for a given button press) ?
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post #42 of 64 Old 04-03-2020, 07:54 PM
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Ok thanks for putting things in perspective ! It sounds like IR isn’t a bad way to go. Does OS3 also support rs232 macros (similar to how you would program a string of IR codes for a given button press) ?
Yes, when CH is being configured, those macros are being configured, some automatically. So when you select a source for instance, that's virtually always going to be doing multiple things, such as to turn the necessary components on and switch inputs as needed etc. That macro could be a combination of many different types of commands - RS232, IR, over IP, or even CEC, all depending on how each device is controlled.

The technician can then make additional adjustments as needed. Coming in the May release there will be more options, such as conditionals - if/then/else logic. i.e. if this is the state of something, do this, else do this.

There are also components that have multiple drivers - where the same model will have an IP, RS232 and IR driver. Why? In some cases a command may be available via one method that is not avilable via the others. Or maybe you've used your RS232 ports up. Well do you really want to spend several hundred more dollars to add more RS232 ports, when you've got IR ports available that will work just fine? Or maybe you've got a component that you've been talking to over IP and the manufacturer sends an update out to the component that causes problems. So you switch it over to IR. In other cases there are products that are simply known to be buggy over IP, so IR or RS232 is preferred. Both IR and RS232 tend to be very reliable if the equipment is installed correctly. In an ideal world IP is without a doubt preferrable over both because of speed and access over the network, but sometimes there are bugs. IR and RS232 are simpler and harder for a manufacturer to screw up.

So choice is good :-).
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post #43 of 64 Old 04-04-2020, 03:10 AM
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Good to know that control via IR is a viable option and effective when done right.

What is rti like for home automation and control compared to CH OS3. Had a look at the rti site and noticed that they too have expanded into the domestic and commercial sectors.

Unfortunately there are no recent in-depth reviews of rti online.

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post #44 of 64 Old 04-04-2020, 08:02 AM
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Yes to JVC, no to Lumagen. So for now you'd have to control Lumegen via IR.
I haven't touched Crestron Home. Does it come packaged with some drivers not available elsewhere? There is no CCD that is IP or rs232 for the JVC projectors at drivers.crestron.io

I've used CCD drivers in SIMPL before so if there's an updated JVC one floating around....
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post #45 of 64 Old 04-04-2020, 01:35 PM
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Yes to JVC, no to Lumagen. So for now you'd have to control Lumegen via IR.
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I haven't touched Crestron Home. Does it come packaged with some drivers not available elsewhere? There is no CCD that is IP or rs232 for the JVC projectors at drivers.crestron.io
You are correct, no certified Crestron driver for JVC using IP or RS32. I meant there is a Crestron IR driver for JVC, but not for Lumagen. For Lumagen the integrator would need to create an IR driver.
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post #46 of 64 Old 04-04-2020, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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You are correct, no certified Crestron driver for JVC using IP or RS32. I meant there is a Crestron IR driver for JVC, but not for Lumagen. For Lumagen the integrator would need to create an IR driver.

Can the Crestron IR driver for JVC be “imported” to work in the Home OS3 environment ?

It baffles me Crestron doesn’t have better support for JVC and Lumagen considering these are used in SO many home theaters ! I realize you can create IR macros as you explained, but it really should support these leading brands out of the box. Especially given their target demographic for AV stuff.
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post #47 of 64 Old 04-04-2020, 11:46 PM
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Can the Crestron IR driver for JVC be “imported” to work in the Home OS3 environment ?
It is an CH driver. Why would I be talking about non-CH drivers ?

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It baffles me Crestron doesn’t have better support for JVC and Lumagen considering these are used in SO many home theaters ! I realize you can create IR macros as you explained, but it really should support these leading brands out of the box. Especially given their target demographic for AV stuff.
1. They do support JVC.

2. They do support leading brands, Lumagen makes a fantastic product but is a speciality product that is a blip on the radar in the scheme of things, so Crestron is going to address products that sell in the millions first.

3. Crestron Home develops what are referred to as "Crestron Certified Drivers". In the case of IR all that means is that if there is not a certified Crestron IR driver, you (i.e. your integrator) create one. This is the way every automation company in existence works including Crestron Regular, RTI, Control4 etc., because no matter what there are always going to be products that aren't in their databases.

You create a driver by using the codes companies like Lumagen provides in the manual I linked to earlier, or in the case of a company that doesn't provide them, learn the codes available on the remote using a Crestron IR Learner.

An IR driver the integrator creates is going to work just as well as one Crestron creates. But by Crestron creating them, they do it once, and their thousands of dealers don't have to. So it sounds like you have two products (Lumagen and Monolith) your dealer may need to create and test an IR driver for. That's a few hours work.
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post #48 of 64 Old 04-22-2020, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
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It is an CH driver. Why would I be talking about non-CH.

Dave - do you have much experience with setting up Voice Control for Crestron Home OS3. I believe they support Google Assistant now. How well does it work, and how does it compare to the built in voice control in the newest Crestron touchpads and remote (ex TSW-1060, TST-310)
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Dave - do you have much experience with setting up Voice Control for Crestron Home OS3. I believe they support Google Assistant now. How well does it work, and how does it compare to the built in voice control in the newest Crestron touchpads and remote (ex TSW-1060, TST-310)
First, what are you using for audio switching? Crestron? Sonos?
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First, what are you using for audio switching? Crestron? Sonos?

Crestron multi channel amp. May integrate a Sonos connect for Apple Music streaming integration.

But I was hoping to use Voice Control for ALL functions - Crestron lighting scenes, Crestron shade control, television (NVX) , whole home audio.


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post #51 of 64 Old 04-22-2020, 03:55 PM
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Crestron multi channel amp. May integrate a Sonos connect for Apple Music streaming integration.

But I was hoping to use Voice Control for ALL functions - Crestron lighting scenes, Crestron shade control, television (NVX) , whole home audio.
Blake, I think you're probably setting your expectations too high for voice control. That applies to *any* system you would purchase and is not a CH specific statement. If you limit your expectations to light and shading control, you'll probably be very pleased. You can do some A/V control, but I would not expect that to be "all" functions.

You should check out Josh.ai, which is engineered entirely around home automation, and does not market to you or track your habits for marketing purposes. They have many in-depth vidoes on their youtube site, here is a good one to start with.

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Crestron Home Question:

I currently have a Crestron TSR-310 remote in my theater programmed via CP3. This was installed and programmed by my audio calibrator.

I am now looking to do Crestron Home for my house: Vista Alarm, Lutron Ra2, Hikvision camera integrations.

(1) My dealer said there are no Chamberlin MyQ garage door drivers yet... Any idea when?


(2) But my real question, I also wanted a Home Theater ON and OFF control in the App. Without going through extra programming, is there simple a way to pull these buttons (macro commands) from my already programmed remote (and CP3) and simply integrate or link them to Crestron Home or do these components need to be fully reprogrammed, etc from scratch? These are long macros. The dealer spec'd a Crestron CEN-IO-IR-104-BLACK at the theater - I assume to control theater- - but is this necessary as all commands are already in the CP3? I asked him but the answer was unclear.

(3) My dealer spec'd a Crestron MC4-R-HR-BLACK and Crestron CEN-IO-IR-104-BLACK at each TV. My sources are Kaleidescape, Xfinity box, Apple TV. I assume Apple TV and Xfinity require IR? TVs are LG OLED and Samsung QLED.

Thanks!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #53 of 64 Old 05-02-2020, 03:18 PM
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Hi Jeff,

1. I heard something about Chamberlain a while back, can't remember what the issue was. But there are other simple ways to automate most garage doors. Do you have a camera in there? If not I'd throw one in there, I find it incredibly useful to be able to both control and see the garage. For example of it's open when it shouldn't be, I want to see what's going on in there before I close it. It's also a good entrance if you ever want to allow workers in and out when you're not there, and you can observe it live, and also have it all on DVR.

2. Programmed from scratch. Yes, the CEN is necessary, unless you're going to install the CH CPR-4 processor in the same location, in which case you could literally flip the phoenix plugs into that processor.

3. You seem like a CPR-4 type of guy to me. Is he cheaping out or are you cheaping out ? The difference is only $600.

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Hi Jeff,

1. I heard something about Chamberlain a while back, can't remember what the issue was. But there are other simple ways to automate most garage doors. Do you have a camera in there? If not I'd throw one in there, I find it incredibly useful to be able to both control and see the garage. For example of it's open when it shouldn't be, I want to see what's going on in there before I close it. It's also a good entrance if you ever want to allow workers in and out when you're not there, and you can observe it live, and also have it all on DVR.

2. Programmed from scratch. Yes, the CEN is necessary, unless you're going to install the CH CPR-4 processor in the same location, in which case you could literally flip the phoenix plugs into that processor.

3. You seem like a CPR-4 type of guy to me. Is he cheaping out or are you cheaping out ? The difference is only $600.

MC4R
CP4R

Definitely agree - get the CP4-R which is the latest processor and fully supports Home OS3.
About the garage opener. Unfortunately most are RF based so Crestron can’t directly control. My integrator soldered in a relay in a spare remote control that Crestron will trigger. And put a camera in the garage as David suggested.

David in terms of the IR control and Phoenix plugs - how many ports are on the CP4-R ? I assume if you have a bunch of TV and theater components you will need another module for additional IR controllers ?
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Hi Jeff,

1. I heard something about Chamberlain a while back, can't remember what the issue was. But there are other simple ways to automate most garage doors. Do you have a camera in there? If not I'd throw one in there, I find it incredibly useful to be able to both control and see the garage. For example of it's open when it shouldn't be, I want to see what's going on in there before I close it. It's also a good entrance if you ever want to allow workers in and out when you're not there, and you can observe it live, and also have it all on DVR.

2. Programmed from scratch. Yes, the CEN is necessary, unless you're going to install the CH CPR-4 processor in the same location, in which case you could literally flip the phoenix plugs into that processor.

3. You seem like a CPR-4 type of guy to me. Is he cheaping out or are you cheaping out ? The difference is only $600.

MC4R
CP4R
Hey David.

Thanks for chiming in.

1. I can put a camera in the garage. Good idea. I do have Cat6 there. The MyQ doors have an app and programming for automatic closing, etc. I’m curious, can Apps be installed on Crestron Touch panels (e.g. MyQ)? But yes, he has alternative ways to control the garage doors as you mentioned.

2. Yes he spec’d a CPR-4 with a remote. I guess I am that type of guy!!

3. So even though I have a CP3 in the theater and no components are IR in the theater, a Cen is still necessary? It’s a low cost, I guess I don’t understand it’s use / need when a control processor is already there and the commands and macros I want are already programmed in the CP3.

Thanks so much!!!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #56 of 64 Old 05-03-2020, 02:43 PM
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1. No. The exception is you can jump to Sonos and back, because the two app makers have collaborated on that integration.

3. It's a good question. Crestron Home and Crestron Regular both work with all relevant Crestron components like the CEN. However the main processors working with each other is different. You're wanting to combine a Crestron Home processor and a Crestron Regular processor. They run two different operating systems. That's sort of the whole point, IOW the CH processor is part of the process of eliminating the much more in-depth programming required for a regular Crestron processor. So, at least at this point in time, there is no way to just use the CP3 for its ports on a CH system.

Currently the only integration between the two is the ability to integrate the CP3 with what is referred to as a quick action in CH. But that does you no good at all. I'm just mentioning it to beat anyone else to the punch that feels the need to jump in and point that out even though it doesn't help you ;-).

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post #57 of 64 Old 05-05-2020, 11:45 AM
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Thank you very much for this very informative thread. While I want to consider myself as a CP4-R guy too and I could live with generating an IR driver for the Lumagen, the fact that there is neither Trinnov driver support, nor screen masking driver(Screen Research, Somfy motor) could be a deal breaker.

Thoughts? CP3?

Thanks,

Kostas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Haddad View Post
1. No. The exception is you can jump to Sonos and back, because the two app makers have collaborated on that integration.

3. It's a good question. Crestron Home and Crestron Regular both work with all relevant Crestron components like the CEN. However the main processors working with each other is different. You're wanting to combine a Crestron Home processor and a Crestron Regular processor. They run two different operating systems. That's sort of the whole point, IOW the CH processor is part of the process of eliminating the much more in-depth programming required for a regular Crestron processor. So, at least at this point in time, there is no way to just use the CP3 for its ports on a CH system.

Currently the only integration between the two is the ability to integrate the CP3 with what is referred to as a quick action in CH. But that does you no good at all. I'm just mentioning it to beat anyone else to the punch that feels the need to jump in and point that out even though it doesn't help you ;-).
OK. Got it.

(#3) So basically, In the theater, the CP-3 will be of no use for setting up a Theater On / Theater OFF macro in Crestron Home. There is no way to trigger those current On / Off macros that reside in the CP3 and remote. Correct?

So, if that is the case, the Crestron Home programmer will just have to do new commands for the Crestron Home (e.g. projector On, SSP On, etc). I have one component that requires RS-232, so the CEN would have to be placed and it can do RS-232 commands?


4> Last thing . Rather than a CEN, would an NVX do all the CEN can AND allow for video delivery from a remote source? I have a KScape Strato in my whole house equipment rack and would like to send it to a pair of TVs in the house? NVX allow TV control and bring K to the that TV and control we needed with CEN?

Thanks so much!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #59 of 64 Old 05-05-2020, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Crestron Home OS3 with AV equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by telem View Post
Thank you very much for this very informative thread. While I want to consider myself as a CP4-R guy too and I could live with generating an IR driver for the Lumagen, the fact that there is neither Trinnov driver support, nor screen masking driver(Screen Research, Somfy motor) could be a deal breaker.

Thoughts? CP3?

Thanks,

Kostas

I am in the same boat as you. Planning to add a Lumagen (or Envy) and just got a Trinnov. Also will need control of a masking motor (Seymour Screen Excellence).

In my opinion, the benefits of a Crestron Home OS3 system (which is SLICK and presumably the future roadmap of Crestron residential) outweigh the inconvenience of not having official Crestron Home drivers.

IR control would work. Better yet, all of these devices have rs232 ports - why not use this protocol for control ? I am hoping my integrator can seamlessly implement RS232 control for these devices with CH. The CP4-R has rs232 ports built in (3 dedicated COM ports) so you are ready to go. My understanding is keeping it simple for these kinds of devices is actually more reliable than implementing a more complex IP driver.
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Last edited by blake; 05-05-2020 at 07:25 PM.
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post #60 of 64 Old 05-05-2020, 06:16 PM
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One of the most common mistakes people make is thinking they are going to automate lights based on motion, proximity sensors etc, only to discover how horribly irritaing it can be, and all the variables you didn't consider. For example if a motion sensor is tripped, how does it know if you are coming in or out of the room? My advice is at first focus entirely on getting the programming as you like it, then play with other stuff. If you're married you'll thank me . There is nothing worse than a system that starts out irritating people. First make it super simple to operate so it can enhance your and your families life. As an example in my home I have certain young family members who leave the lights on just like I did when I was a kid. Like the 10 lights in the garage. So I can just program that room to shut off after x minutes if the light is left on, knowing that no one ever spends any time in it at night except for pulling in and out. If I wanted to I could add motions to stop that from the possibility of happening if someone is out there, but it's not worth it for the 1 in a 1000 chance someone is in the garage for 30 minutes.
This.......... I shudder when people post about the 30 motion sensors integrated into their "home automation" system.

Crestron's RF should be excellent, the base technology is licensed from Lutron. IIRC, Lutron sued them and they settled.

Does Crestron have an equivalent to the Pico remotes? I love their versatility.

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