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post #1 of 64 Old 03-05-2020, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Crestron Home OS3 with AV equipment

So how is Crestron Home OS3 integrating with AV components these days ?

Does OS3 have drivers for the big players like JVC projectors , Seymour motorized masking screens (RS232 I believe), Datasat PrePro , Lumagen etc ?

All of the aforementioned brands integrate with Crestron. However, I am not sure if these traditional Crestron drivers will work with their residential Home OS3 (which looks and functions beautiful based on what I’ve seen)
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post #2 of 64 Old 03-07-2020, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
So how is Crestron Home OS3 integrating with AV components these days ?

Does OS3 have drivers for the big players like JVC projectors , Seymour motorized masking screens (RS232 I believe), Datasat PrePro , Lumagen etc ?

All of the aforementioned brands integrate with Crestron. However, I am not sure if these traditional Crestron drivers will work with their residential Home OS3 (which looks and functions beautiful based on what I’ve seen)
I cannot answer your question, but I thought I would bump the thread since my interest in SDvOE had led me to encounter Crestron.

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post #3 of 64 Old 03-07-2020, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
I cannot answer your question, but I thought I would bump the thread since my interest in SDvOE had led me to encounter Crestron.


I was looking at SDvOE as well, but to be honest Crestron does it better with a more simple and economical 1G Ethernet solution (Crestron NVX) to transporting 4K video. The requirement of 10G network hardware for SDvOE adds a LOT of expense, and even when pixel peeping, the quality of 4K 60 4:4:4 is identical.

Would love to hear if anyone is using Crestron home OS3 in their home for AV gear? Seems it’s the way Crestron is moving for residential installs
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post #4 of 64 Old 03-20-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
I was looking at SDvOE as well, but to be honest Crestron does it better with a more simple and economical 1G Ethernet solution (Crestron NVX) to transporting 4K video. The requirement of 10G network hardware for SDvOE adds a LOT of expense, and even when pixel peeping, the quality of 4K 60 4:4:4 is identical.

Would love to hear if anyone is using Crestron home OS3 in their home for AV gear? Seems it’s the way Crestron is moving for residential installs
I've been looking for a comprehensive review too but cannot fine one.
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post #5 of 64 Old 03-23-2020, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
I've been looking for a comprehensive review too but cannot fine one.

This is not a comprehensive review but gives you an overview of Crestron Home (OS3)

https://www.customcontrols.co.uk/blo...ron-home-os-3/

I read another review that OS3 is much sleeker and better functioning that Control4 and RTi. However some of his clients still loves the look and feel of Savant more.

I am going with OS3 in my new home build.
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post #6 of 64 Old 03-23-2020, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
This is not a comprehensive review but gives you an overview of Crestron Home (OS3)

https://www.customcontrols.co.uk/blo...ron-home-os-3/

I read another review that OS3 is much sleeker and better functioning that Control4 and RTi. However some of his clients still loves the look and feel of Savant more.

I am going with OS3 in my new home build.
Thanks Blake, that was very kind of you. That link you provided gives a brief but nice overview. I too am inclined towards Crestron Home OS3.

Did you compare the cost between Crestron Home and Control4 ? - is the price difference justifiable ?
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post #7 of 64 Old 03-24-2020, 02:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually compared with RTI because that is the system the first integrator I met with suggested. The Crestron dealer looked at that quote and made it more competitive. Crestron is definitely a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for.

Control4 is more an entry level system but is apparently white solid and it probably would have been cheaper as well.

We are building a new house and the last thing I wanted was to be stuck with non supported or unreliable infrastructure in 10 years. We even put all the lighting on Crestron control. Crestron is definitely the premium brand out there and is well established and has tremendous dealer and customer support. So to me it was worth the slightly higher price.

One thing to note. If you do go Crestron and you use multiple devices from them (ex motorized roller shades , lighting , audio and video distribution , touch screens ) etc you can get a good discount.
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post #8 of 64 Old 03-24-2020, 06:27 AM
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Control4 is not an "entry level system". It is a "higher end system".

Price:
X10 is entry level, then Z-Wave & Insteon, then Zigbee, Then Caseta, then RadioRa, then Homeseer, then myServer then RTI, then Control4, then Savant, then Vantage, then Homeworks, then Crestron (in that order from entry to high end price). Note this list has both control systems and pure lighting as there is overlap depending on what people define as "automation".

Automation capability / customization ability:

Caseta, then RadioRa, then Homeworks, then X10, then Zigbee, then Z-Wave & Insteon, then Vantage, then RTI, then Control4, then Savant, then Homeseer, then Crestron, then myServer

All subject to discussion as the capability is in the eye of the beholder. And the lighting system is commonly paired to a compatible control system (which is why some of the lighting systems have little automation capability on their own).

Your ability to negotiate a "package deal" with a Crestron dealer is between you and the dealer. Crestron isn't changing their price to the dealer based on your package. Same is true for all the other brands as well. I am sure a Control4 dealer would discount a huge list of stuff from list price. As does Allonis (myServer).

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post #9 of 64 Old 03-24-2020, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Crestron Home OS3 with AV equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothtlk View Post
Control4 is not an "entry level system". It is a "higher end system".

Price:
X10 is entry level, then Z-Wave & Insteon, then Zigbee, Then Caseta, then RadioRa, then Homeseer, then myServer then RTI, then Control4, then Savant, then Vantage, then Homeworks, then Crestron (in that order from entry to high end price). Note this list has both control systems and pure lighting as there is overlap depending on what people define as "automation".

Automation capability / customization ability:

Caseta, then RadioRa, then Homeworks, then X10, then Zigbee, then Z-Wave & Insteon, then Vantage, then RTI, then Control4, then Savant, then Homeseer, then Crestron, then myServer

All subject to discussion as the capability is in the eye of the beholder. And the lighting system is commonly paired to a compatible control system (which is why some of the lighting systems have little automation capability on their own).

Your ability to negotiate a "package deal" with a Crestron dealer is between you and the dealer. Crestron isn't changing their price to the dealer based on your package. Same is true for all the other brands as well. I am sure a Control4 dealer would discount a huge list of stuff from list price. As does Allonis (myServer).
I was referring to the big 4 in terms of whole home automation (RTi, Crestron, Savant, Control 4). The majority of system integrators use one of these 4 platforms.

I think the regional Crestron reps/ distributors do give dealers a break in terms of dealer cost if more volume .
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post #10 of 64 Old 03-25-2020, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
I actually compared with RTI because that is the system the first integrator I met with suggested. The Crestron dealer looked at that quote and made it more competitive. Crestron is definitely a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for.

Control4 is more an entry level system but is apparently white solid and it probably would have been cheaper as well.

We are building a new house and the last thing I wanted was to be stuck with non supported or unreliable infrastructure in 10 years. We even put all the lighting on Crestron control. Crestron is definitely the premium brand out there and is well established and has tremendous dealer and customer support. So to me it was worth the slightly higher price.

One thing to note. If you do go Crestron and you use multiple devices from them (ex motorized roller shades , lighting , audio and video distribution , touch screens ) etc you can get a good discount.
Thanks Blake, that is useful to know. I suppose Crestron's lighting solution is as good as Lutron or it is possible that Lutron makes stuff for them.

Are you gone for whole house music ?

What about security cameras ?
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post #11 of 64 Old 03-25-2020, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Thanks Blake, that is useful to know. I suppose Crestron's lighting solution is as good as Lutron or it is possible that Lutron makes stuff for them.

Are you gone for whole house music ?

What about security cameras ?

Crestron makes their own lighting solution. They have one solution based on wireless technology (Crestron Infinet) which is better for retrofitting. They have a complete wired integrated solution as well. Basically it’s a wall mounted box with DIN modules to run each individual light fixture circuit in the house.

http:///https://www.crestron.com/en-...ghting-Systems

Either solution gives you complete control over what switches do what , and you can program scenes such as Turn all the lights off in a specific room, lower the shades etc. The advantage with OS3 over the old legacy SIMPL based Crestron is the end user can customize more of this stuff. The legacy system would mean having to reprogram thru your dealer.


Crestron also will integrate with a Lutron system.

Yes, doing whole home audio. This is more straight forward. You just need a multi channel amp , and a control system to switch the input sources and output speakers.
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post #12 of 64 Old 03-28-2020, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
Crestron makes their own lighting solution. They have one solution based on wireless technology (Crestron Infinet) which is better for retrofitting. They have a complete wired integrated solution as well. Basically it’s a wall mounted box with DIN modules to run each individual light fixture circuit in the house.

http:///https://www.crestron.com/en-...ghting-Systems

Either solution gives you complete control over what switches do what , and you can program scenes such as Turn all the lights off in a specific room, lower the shades etc. The advantage with OS3 over the old legacy SIMPL based Crestron is the end user can customize more of this stuff. The legacy system would mean having to reprogram thru your dealer.


Crestron also will integrate with a Lutron system.

Yes, doing whole home audio. This is more straight forward. You just need a multi channel amp , and a control system to switch the input sources and output speakers.
Thanks Blake, that is a seriously large portfolio of lighting gear which is impressive, reliable too I presume.

For whole home audio, do you have to go with long runs in terms of speaker cables ? It would be nice to have compact and powered in-wall or on-wall speakers to avoid long speaker cable runs. This could then be integrated buy running CAT-6 cables to a network-switch and controlled by the controller in the equipment rack. Furthermore, it would be great to have a compact high-performance subwoofer that can be strategically placed under or behind furniture to achieve a 2.1 configuration wherever needed. It would be a powered sub, the ability to control the crossover from the controller would be awesome.

I take note of the flexibility of OS3 and the fact that a user can tweak it to taste, very convenient.

The more I'm learning about Crestron Home, the more I'm liking it.

What are you incorporating in terms of AV ? - will every room have a TV or are you thinking of a dedicated home theatre / entertainment room ?
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post #13 of 64 Old 03-28-2020, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Blake, that is a seriously large portfolio of lighting gear which is impressive, reliable too I presume.

For whole home audio, do you have to go with long runs in terms of speaker cables ? It would be nice to have compact and powered in-wall or on-wall speakers to avoid long speaker cable runs. This could then be integrated buy running CAT-6 cables to a network-switch and controlled by the controller in the equipment rack. Furthermore, it would be great to have a compact high-performance subwoofer that can be strategically placed under or behind furniture to achieve a 2.1 configuration wherever needed. It would be a powered sub, the ability to control the crossover from the controller would be awesome.

I take note of the flexibility of OS3 and the fact that a user can tweak it to taste, very convenient.

The more I'm learning about Crestron Home, the more I'm liking it.

What are you incorporating in terms of AV ? - will every room have a TV or are you thinking of a dedicated home theatre / entertainment room ?

I just installed in ceiling speakers in various rooms that were passive and powered from the multichannel amplifier rack in the basement. Most in ceiling speakers on the market are passive, I am not sure if actively powered ones are out there. To be honest, if you are using a reasonable gauge speaker wire there probably won’t be perceivable degradation in audio quality. The speakers we use are about $250 a pop. If you’re going audiophile grade in ceiling speakers , I am sure you could design a system like you describe. Crestron does make an all digital audio distribution system (ie single cat6 distributing the signal to amps located closet to your speakers) but it is pretty costly and overkill for what I wanted.

Re subs. For everything outside the theater room , we used compact / hidden subs. My wife didn’t want big boxes littering the new house. So we used a couple James Louspeaker PowerPipe subs that are hidden in the ceiling or a closet, and basically just a vent is visible in the ceiling or toekick. We also used a James Audio in-wall subwoofer for the main kitchen/living room area. These are passive subs and each driven by a James subwoofer amplifier down in the basement rack. Each James Amp handles the crossover and has some basic EQ function.


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post #14 of 64 Old 03-29-2020, 02:13 AM
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I have both a standard Crestron system, and a Crestron Home OS3 system in my home, and was one of the beta testers for OS3. From here on out I'll use the acronym CH to refer to it. Happy to answer any specific questions anyone has. Sam, I saw you also posted a question about CH in a thread in the home automation forum, since this thread is specifically about OS3 I'm responding in this one.
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post #15 of 64 Old 03-29-2020, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I have both a standard Crestron system, and a Crestron Home OS3 system in my home, and was one of the beta testers for OS3. From here on out I'll use the acronym CH to refer to it. Happy to answer any specific questions anyone has. Sam, I saw you also posted a question about CH in a thread in the home automation forum, since this thread is specifically about OS3 I'm responding in this one.

David , i would love to hear your own impressions of OS3. It seems to be pretty refined now. How did you find the GUI?

Also, did OS3 support all your 3rd party equipment ? I know Crestron is adding more modules with every release. Can you still control a device using simpl if you had a Crestron driver for a simpl based system ?
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post #16 of 64 Old 03-29-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Haddad View Post
I have both a standard Crestron system, and a Crestron Home OS3 system in my home, and was one of the beta testers for OS3. From here on out I'll use the acronym CH to refer to it. Happy to answer any specific questions anyone has. Sam, I saw you also posted a question about CH in a thread in the home automation forum, since this thread is specifically about OS3 I'm responding in this one.
Thanks David, very nice of you to be willing to offer help, much appreciated. Well, share your experience, it would be nice to get an in-depth view in terms of advantages, strengths as well as challenges you faced. I’m in the process of researching Crestron Home with OS3, seems to be a very nice solution. I’m particularly interested in OS3 and it’s abilities, lighting, security and whole house music.
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post #17 of 64 Old 03-30-2020, 04:12 PM
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Hi Blake and Sam,

I'll respond to your questions as soon as I can, in the meantime here is a pretty good overview of the CH OS3 interface you may find useful. For some reason the forum keeps trying to automatically create a video window even though said window won't work with Vimeo. But if you click on the word "Vimeo" at the top of the video window, it will take you to the video on Vimeo.


David

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post #18 of 64 Old 03-30-2020, 08:40 PM
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David , i would love to hear your own impressions of OS3. It seems to be pretty refined now. How did you find the GUI?
Modern looking, fluid, fast, and easy to navigate. Users seem to catch on to it very quickly.

I do have some quibbles, but that's probably because I'm UX obsessed, I don't think they are significant enough to bother most users, in fact many users might not even notice them, and they can easily be addressed in the future. Those quibbles are that I'd like the room pictures to be a more standard aspect ratio (see video I posted earlier), and there is a little inconsistency in some of the icons used. For instance the three dot icon often used in mobile apps sometimes does a page jump if it's on a button, but when used on the upper right of the screen performs a slide-out pop-up per UI convention. As I said, very minor stuff that some users might not even notice.

The Home Page is perfect and does not have these issues, which tells me they will address these minor issues on the other pages in the future.

Quote:
Also, did OS3 support all your 3rd party equipment ?
Yes, but that is still something you should check on, most of the major brands are now supported, but there are still things that are not supported. See below...

Quote:
I know Crestron is adding more modules with every release.
Yes, they are adding them are a pretty intense rate. It's not something that would personally stop me from getting a CH system, because if it does not support it now, it will in the future unless it's some odd off brand. And if it doesn't support it in the future, unless you're hardcore and absolutely will not accept anything else other than whatever that component is, use a component that is compatible, or just use IR. And this isn't much different than any system, whether a regular Crestron system, or any other companies system - you avoid components that don't play well.

Their strategy was very simple, at first support their own ecosystem along with the major brands of receivers and televisions, and then add support for everything else. So as example in the next few months they will be adding Lutron QS and RadioRa support, DALI support, and more.

Quote:
Can you still control a device using simpl if you had a Crestron driver for a simpl based system ?
No. If you want IP control it needs to be an official CH driver. This is the single biggest difference with CH, you can't write your own drivers, at least not yet.

However for those components, if they support IR, you can still use IR control and can learn your own IR codes.
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post #19 of 64 Old 03-30-2020, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Thanks David, very nice of you to be willing to offer help, much appreciated. Well, share your experience, it would be nice to get an in-depth view in terms of advantages, strengths as well as challenges you faced. I’m in the process of researching Crestron Home with OS3, seems to be a very nice solution. I’m particularly interested in OS3 and it’s abilities, lighting, security and whole house music.
Sam, it is meant to be a full home automation system, that can be used for very large projects. They are not pulling the common "let's create a lower and higher line and purposely limit the lower line so it cannot compete with the higher line". Crestron Home uses all the same Crestron products the regular Crestron line uses (with the sole exception of the control processor).

The main difference is that the regular line can be programmed from scratch, if you want your GUI to look like a panel in Star Trek, if you want pixel level control of layout, or a specific flow you want your GUI to have, that can be done with regular Crestron. With Crestron Home you are receiving an interface designed by Crestron for the home. It can still be customized in some ways, but you can't rearrange how every button is laid out or change the core structure of the UI.

Cons
- Cannot create a completely custom UI as you could with the regular Crestron line.
- Cannot write your own drivers as you could with the regular Crestron line.
- There are programming scenarios you could dream up that would be possible with regular Crestron that might not be possible with CH. But I do not think this would be relevant for most projects.

Pros
- Programming time (and cost) is vastly reduced for most systems.
- Modern, fluid, fast UI. And I should note that some of the things Crestron is doing with the CH UI actually are not possible yet with regular Crestron.
- Access to the best touchscreens, remotes and equipment in the home automation ecosystem. For instance, the TSR310 is the best and sleekest remote I've ever used. And fully supported by OS3. Of course you also get access to their countles other products including their A/V distribution products.
- The user has a considerable degree of flexibility to make changes themselves, for instance you can program your own lighting scenes, customize which functions you want on the home page and so on. I realize some people in these forums want full control of every aspect of their system, if that's what someone wants, they should get a DIY system. I'm adding that disclaimer with the hope of fending off the DIYs who usually show up and start ranting about how they would never accept any system where they can't make every change themselves .

I won't have time to do it for a few days, but if you'd like I'll record a little more in-depth video of the UI in action. Let me know if that would be useful.

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post #20 of 64 Old 03-30-2020, 09:51 PM
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To summarize, here is how Crestron Regular (I'm coining that term, since there is no official designation for it) vs Crestron Home is being positioned.

Crestron Home
- CH is meant to substantially widen the market by making the top control and automation company usable on more projects, by reducing programming time and the completely custom aspect of Crestron Regular, thereby reducing cost and time to install.
- Crestron Home is applicable to both small and very large projects.
- There is a plus side to not having the UI completely customizable, which is that the end user experience will be more consistent. Installation companies that previously didn't have internal graphic designers or good UX design will now be able to provide a sleek UI.

Crestron Regular
- Will still be widely used in commercial applications, where complete customizability of the UI is an absolute requisite.
- Will still be used in homes by some firms who prefer that complete customizability. This will likely be firms with in-house graphics capability and very skilled programmers. I am sure many such firms will be doing a mix of Crestron Regular and CH systems.
- Will still be used in some huge residential or yacht projects where complete customizability is needed/expected.

Important
- Crestron is presenting CH has a system where you should look upon the main processor (about $2000) as something you want to replace every 5 years or so, as they upgrade generations, to get all the newest capabilities introduced with each generation. For instance, customers who owned the older Pyng system intoduced several years ago were/are all able to completely upgrade their systems now by replaying the older Pyng processor with the new CP4R processor. None of the system components needed to be replaced, just the processor. For people upgrading from the Pyng processor to CH OS3, it's like getting a completely new system, as they new get the completely new UI along with all its new features. The newest UI requires more processing power, hence the reason to upgrade processors.

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post #21 of 64 Old 03-31-2020, 12:30 AM - Thread Starter
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No. If you want IP control it needs to be an official CH driver. This is the single biggest difference with CH, you can't write your own drivers, at least not yet.

However for those components, if they support IR, you can still use IR control and can learn your own IR codes.
Thanks for the detailed info !

Is there a “best of both worlds” scenario where you can use a separate Crestron “Regular” controller (I believe they have smaller / less costly ones as opposed to something like CP4) as a “slave” to run a custom simpl program in a CH setup ?

And since this is AVS forums... Does the CH ecosystem support JVC projectors (which use RS232 or IP) or Lumagen Radiance Pro (RS232 only) ?
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post #22 of 64 Old 03-31-2020, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by David Haddad View Post
I won't have time to do it for a few days, but if you'd like I'll record a little more in-depth video of the UI in action. Let me know if that would be useful.
That would be great ! The video you provided from Crestron at ISE was good but an additional video from an integrator would be very interesting to see. I’m surprised there isn’t more content on YouTube etc for CH
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post #23 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 10:57 AM
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Sam, it is meant to be a full home automation system, that can be used for very large projects. They are not pulling the common "let's create a lower and higher line and purposely limit the lower line so it cannot compete with the higher line". Crestron Home uses all the same Crestron products the regular Crestron line uses (with the sole exception of the control processor).

The main difference is that the regular line can be programmed from scratch, if you want your GUI to look like a panel in Star Trek, if you want pixel level control of layout, or a specific flow you want your GUI to have, that can be done with regular Crestron. With Crestron Home you are receiving an interface designed by Crestron for the home. It can still be customized in some ways, but you can't rearrange how every button is laid out or change the core structure of the UI.

Cons
- Cannot create a completely custom UI as you could with the regular Crestron line.
- Cannot write your own drivers as you could with the regular Crestron line.
- There are programming scenarios you could dream up that would be possible with regular Crestron that might not be possible with CH. But I do not think this would be relevant for most projects.

Pros
- Programming time (and cost) is vastly reduced for most systems.
- Modern, fluid, fast UI. And I should note that some of the things Crestron is doing with the CH UI actually are not possible yet with regular Crestron.
- Access to the best touchscreens, remotes and equipment in the home automation ecosystem. For instance, the TSR310 is the best and sleekest remote I've ever used. And fully supported by OS3. Of course you also get access to their countles other products including their A/V distribution products.
- The user has a considerable degree of flexibility to make changes themselves, for instance you can program your own lighting scenes, customize which functions you want on the home page and so on. I realize some people in these forums want full control of every aspect of their system, if that's what someone wants, they should get a DIY system. I'm adding that disclaimer with the hope of fending off the DIYs who usually show up and start ranting about how they would never accept any system where they can't make every change themselves .

I won't have time to do it for a few days, but if you'd like I'll record a little more in-depth video of the UI in action. Let me know if that would be useful.

Hi David, I take this opportunity to thank you immensely for your excellent and useful input. I've spent monthss researching this matter and just two posts by you have answered most of my questions.

Yes, the video of the UI would be very nice, it will give us a good idea about the UI and you can tell us about the UX.

Also, could you explain the difference between a wired and non-wired (Retro installations) in terms of infrastructure and reliability. I would definitely prefer the former but it would be nice to know if the later can be achieved effectively. I'm sure the retro-fit option requires solid WiFi infrastructure or a mesh networking infrastructure, the only worry is that if this infrastructure goes down for some reason then that could compromise the system. However, I'm sure that Crestron have already taken all this into consideration and incorporated some failsafe mechanisms.

What, in your experience/opinion, is the smartest way to control lighting ? - I think occupancy sensors (thermal based) make so much sense in automating lighting in addition to on-wall switches and control via hand-held device. Often, a person walks out of a room or space and forgets to switch-off the lights. Hence the system would do that automatically. However, there are areas such as the living room where one would want the lights to remain switched-on regardless of presence. I suppose all these parameters and preferences can be setup in CH OS3.

In terms of security, I presume CH is compatible with all major alarm control units and probably have their own units ?

Furthermore, have you done any whole house music solutions that surpass Sonos and the likes in terms of fidelity, flexibility and ease of use ?
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post #24 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 10:57 AM
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To summarize, here is how Crestron Regular (I'm coining that term, since there is no official designation for it) vs Crestron Home is being positioned.

Crestron Home
- CH is meant to substantially widen the market by making the top control and automation company usable on more projects, by reducing programming time and the completely custom aspect of Crestron Regular, thereby reducing cost and time to install.
- Crestron Home is applicable to both small and very large projects.
- There is a plus side to not having the UI completely customizable, which is that the end user experience will be more consistent. Installation companies that previously didn't have internal graphic designers or good UX design will now be able to provide a sleek UI.

Crestron Regular
- Will still be widely used in commercial applications, where complete customizability of the UI is an absolute requisite.
- Will still be used in homes by some firms who prefer that complete customizability. This will likely be firms with in-house graphics capability and very skilled programmers. I am sure many such firms will be doing a mix of Crestron Regular and CH systems.
- Will still be used in some huge residential or yacht projects where complete customizability is needed/expected.

Important
- Crestron is presenting CH has a system where you should look upon the main processor (about $2000) as something you want to replace every 5 years or so, as they upgrade generations, to get all the newest capabilities introduced with each generation. For instance, customers who owned the older Pyng system intoduced several years ago were/are all able to completely upgrade their systems now by replaying the older Pyng processor with the new CP4R processor. None of the system components needed to be replaced, just the processor. For people upgrading from the Pyng processor to CH OS3, it's like getting a completely new system, as they new get the completely new UI along with all its new features. The newest UI requires more processing power, hence the reason to upgrade processors.
Thank you very much indeed.
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post #25 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 12:33 PM
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Also, could you explain the difference between a wired and non-wired (Retro installations) in terms of infrastructure and reliability.
Hi Sam,

I'll tackle this question first and the other later. The question when it comes to wireless is always what are you controlling, what is the wireless protocol, and do you have the proper infrastructure to support it? So some examples:

- Wireless lighting, which uses RF, from first rate companies like Crestron and Lutron is rock solid. Without naming names so as to avoid any flaming, let's just say some other brands not so much.

- There are two types of "wireless" shading. One is where the shades are battery powered - IOW they are completely wireless even for power. They work fine but in this case I would personally go wired every time - for the power. Because it's usually not too difficult to pull power from a nearby outlet on the wall. Then you never have to change batteries, can do larger shades if needed and so on. But the communication to the shades to control them can still be RF, and again with Crestron it is rock solid. I would not bothing running communication wire to the shades unless for some reason it is very easy to get wire back to the processor location. Now in new construction I still always do wired, but that's mainly because it costs less in that scenario. Strictly speaking it's more reliable, but we're almost talking theoretical at this point. I've had wireless lighting systems running for years that have never missed a command. Crestron makes fantastic shades BTW, excellent motors which have a lifetime warranty.

- For a control system wifi is usually going to be for controlling the system via smartphone or iPad and again that is rock solid.

So for the above things I would have no concerns at all about wireless. In general if it's new construction run wire, if it's existing don't worry about it. Same applies to streaming video sources. Run Ethernet (and more of course) to all A/V locations. If the house is finished, go wireless.

A word on wireless. If someone is using what are known to be reliable automation systems (i.e. Crestron) and complaining about performance, virtually without exception it's the implemenetation. As an example we've done 10,000+ square foot homes with wireless lighting with no issues. But sometimes during the testing phase you may encounter issues, even though you've planned everything correctly. You may notice that a few light switches at the perimeter are not responding, or are responding sporadically. So that simply tells you that you need to reposition the repeater, or add an additional one. Problem solved and it's rock solid.

I see a ton of complaints that relate to control systems and wifi. Virtually every single time those are related to someone cheaping out on the network side of things. I'll give you another example. We did a Crestron system last year that was not that big, about 8 rooms total, i.e. not a ton of network traffic. The Client had DSL and we were changing them over to cable. Cable company had not done their installation yet, and there was no way to bridge the AT&T modem/router. Since the sytem was small I thought I could get away with using the AT&T router for a few days until the cable modem showed up at which point I'd add the "real" router. No such luck. I could press a button on the Crestron touchscreen and commands that should have triggered instantly were triggering 30 seconds later. The AT&T router was just absolute garbage. So I had to create a DMZ zone so I could use our specificed router until the (bridgable) cable modem showed up.

So anytime there are reliabilty issues on wireless it is almost without exception because of inadequate router/switches/access points. Granted, sometimes no matter what you'll encounter weird network issues you have to solve because of odd ball components. Sonos for instance does not play well with certain network configurations so you have to be careful with it.

Hope this helps. I rarely post on forums anymore but covid-19 is giving me some downtime :-).

Last edited by David Haddad; 04-01-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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post #26 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 12:48 PM
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One other thing on wireless because it's one of my pet peeves. What I've sometimes seen is companies spec a certain number of repeaters in their proposal. I'm referring to no specific brand, I've seen it happen with all of them. Then as I mentioned perhaps some switch on the perimiter of the house goes on after 5 seconds when a room scene is triggered, when it should go on instantly. But the only way to solve it would be to add another repeater. But the company doesn't want to include a free gateway because of their bad planning so they leave it that way. And then the client is left with the impression the system is finicky.

Another common scenario is maybe a light switch out in the garage. It's 50' from everything else and it wasn't properly planned for. i.e. no one ever looked at the fact that it was 50' away and planned for it by adding an extra repeater. So that switch triggers 1 our of 3 times.

But that has nothing to do with wireless not being reliable. It just has to do with poor planning. So hopefully that helps as you think about this.

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post #27 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 04:26 PM
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Here you go. FYI I slightly misspoke at 12 minutes in, the live channel guide does display for the TV favorites, just only in "list" mode, which in fact you'll see as I am demoing it. The live channel info showing on the favorites screen is one of the coolest things if you use TV, because it's so much better than pulling up the cable box guide on the TV screen. Although if you're like me, you haven't watched live TV in years :-). But it's still a very cool feature :-D.

The other thing is I said it always launches to the home screen, that is true if you kill the app, but otherwise it launches to the screen you were last on.


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post #28 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
Is there a “best of both worlds” scenario where you can use a separate Crestron “Regular” controller (I believe they have smaller / less costly ones as opposed to something like CP4) as a “slave” to run a custom simpl program in a CH setup?
Not really. Not in the sense that you'd be performing true system intercommunications between the two, and getting full feedback on the CH interface. It can be done in reverse, some integrators set up shades and lights in CH, and then the programmer pulls that information into a simpl program (in which case the CH interface is not being used). But that is only done because those integrators find it faster to program that aspect themselves, and then have the programmer do the rest. IOW it's a time issue, you don't gain any added functionalty.

IMO it really doesn't make sense to do what you're suggesting, it would defeat the purpose of CH. I suspect we'll see solutions for this in the future within CH itself, but that's just me, not official, and it's not something I would bet we'll see soon as I think they have more urgent feature priorities, along with adding more brands and components with every update. I suspect a solution for "outliers" will come later. Again, this is supposition on my part, so don't take that as a promise.

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And since this is AVS forums... Does the CH ecosystem support JVC projectors (which use RS232 or IP) or Lumagen Radiance Pro (RS232 only) ?
Yes to JVC, no to Lumagen. So for now you'd have to control Lumegen via IR.
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post #29 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 05:47 PM
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...the only worry is that if this infrastructure goes down for some reason then that could compromise the system. However, I'm sure that Crestron have already taken all this into consideration and incorporated some failsafe mechanisms.
Everything these days is based on the network, so if the network does down, a lot can go down. But the lighting and shades are RF and not dependent on the network. So those will not go down even if the network does. Same for climate.
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What, in your experience/opinion, is the smartest way to control lighting ? - I think occupancy sensors (thermal based) make so much sense in automating lighting in addition to on-wall switches and control via hand-held device. Often, a person walks out of a room or space and forgets to switch-off the lights. Hence the system would do that automatically. However, there are areas such as the living room where one would want the lights to remain switched-on regardless of presence. I suppose all these parameters and preferences can be setup in CH OS3.
One of the most common mistakes people make is thinking they are going to automate lights based on motion, proximity sensors etc, only to discover how horribly irritaing it can be, and all the variables you didn't consider. For example if a motion sensor is tripped, how does it know if you are coming in or out of the room? My advice is at first focus entirely on getting the programming as you like it, then play with other stuff. If you're married you'll thank me . There is nothing worse than a system that starts out irritating people. First make it super simple to operate so it can enhance your and your families life. As an example in my home I have certain young family members who leave the lights on just like I did when I was a kid. Like the 10 lights in the garage. So I can just program that room to shut off after x minutes if the light is left on, knowing that no one ever spends any time in it at night except for pulling in and out. If I wanted to I could add motions to stop that from the possibility of happening if someone is out there, but it's not worth it for the 1 in a 1000 chance someone is in the garage for 30 minutes.

Limit your automated lighting to things like closets at first, it's awesome to open a close door and have the light go on. BTW, I've actually been in bathrooms where I'm sitting sitting down and the lights keep going out because they have not seen motion, irritating as hell. It's the type of stuff that makes people hate these systems. Now if you have no signifant other, who cares, experiment to your hearts content :-D.

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In terms of security, I presume CH is compatible with all major alarm control units and probably have their own units?
They do not make alarm systems. They currently support Honeywell Vista, Interlogix, DSC, First Alarm and Texecom.

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Furthermore, have you done any whole house music solutions that surpass Sonos and the likes in terms of fidelity, flexibility and ease of use ?
Currently there is no music server on the market that I love and I've tested most of them. We use Autonomic primarily but I haven't tested it yet with CH, only Sonos. Lode Audio looks very interesting but I have not tested it yet, they are relatively new to the US.

Last edited by David Haddad; 04-01-2020 at 08:09 PM.
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post #30 of 64 Old 04-01-2020, 08:19 PM
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What, in your experience/opinion, is the smartest way to control lighting?
I told you what not to do but didn't say what to do. The answer is keypads. Assuming we're talking existing contruction, you swap all the existing dimmers with Crestron RF dimmers. And the beauty of this solution is that every single dimmer can also function as a keypad. It can even function as a music keypad. IOW some buttons might do lights, others might do music. Once you have this type of setup you'll never adjust multiple dimmers on the wall again, you'll have all your controls on a single keypad. You'll program the top button so that when you walk into the room you press the it and it activates your favorite scene. The bottom button I usually make contol the closest room/hall etc so that if you're leaving a room you can be turning on the next room you're walking to at the same time. The other buttons might do fixtures you want to control indivually, or other room scenes.

This is the dimmer/keypad, you can make it from one button to five buttons, and each side of a button can perform a different function: https://www.crestron.com/Products/Li...rs/HZ-DIMUEX-W

For whatever reason the photograph on that page is poor and you can't really see the text. Go to this page to see what it actually looks like: https://www.crestron.com/Products/Fe...orizon-Keypads

OK, I think I caught all your questions now. Let me know if you have any others.

Last edited by David Haddad; 04-01-2020 at 08:23 PM.
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