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post #1 of 12 Old 05-29-2020, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Question about Matrix's and home distribution

So this started off as me looking for HDMI extenders, but now I rethinking things. So I think now I wondering if I can centralize 5 or maybe 6 different HDMI inputs and route to 3 or 4 tvs, but each TV needs to be able to view a different input at the same time without loss of video or sound quality or lag. Normally only 2 TV are in use at the same time. I also don't want any lag when watching sports. Right now all my displays are 1080p or 720p.

Some of the inputs would be a roku stick, firestick or ms display adapter, and a couple of cable DVR boxes. I was then wondering how does one independently control the sources to each TV? some of my reading gave me the impression its one remote for all which made no sense. So it made me wonder if a matrix could use multiple IR devices. But there is just too much overwhelming info for a home user. I was hoping someone could nudge me the right direction to find a quality DIY Home consumer solution. If price becomes an issue then I would prefer to lean towards a [email protected] HDCP 2.2 solution that is backwards compatible as one day I will have to upgrade TV's.

I am somewhat familiar with the professional side of things because we use a combination Crestron, Extron and Kramer devices at work in our building for AV distribution. But I am home user not company with deep pocket.

Most of my cable runs should be under 100 feet, some under 50 just depends on the routing through the attic/walls.

I can vlan my network, with a ethernet/ip solution. I am still trying to get cuaght up on what HDBaseT it reminds me of AV over IP but at a higher cost. So I am not sure why one would go that route.

Any ways I looking for some insight.
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post #2 of 12 Old 05-30-2020, 05:12 AM
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You need a matrix switch and a control system to make the use easy.
And there isn't any difference between commercial and residential.
You pay for the scale of the system and the quality of the video, and the reliability of the system.
If you compromise on these elements, then yes, you can get a cheaper device.

HDMI is cheaper than HDBaseT which are both cheaper than VoIP.

HDBaseT supports longer distances and uses Cat6.

VoIP is more flexible and is easier to implement video walls etc. This is more geared to commercial as not too many homes have video walls.

If you are going with centralized sources, you shouldn't be using IR at all but use serial or IP controlled devices.

You have a budget in mind? That will near immediately guide all next steps.
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post #3 of 12 Old 05-30-2020, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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No budget yet, researching to determine budget.

No Budget yet, I still trying to plan it out and security cams is the current priority. Wife and I are never on the same page with budgets. But once I know what direction I am going in equipment then I set a budget. I find it easier to tell me wife it going to cost us between this and that. So I am very much in the research/rough planning phase right now. Part of me just wants to reach out to vendors I deal through work, but its hard sell to my wife to pay someone to design it for us. I want a minimal amount of components, but I know when cost enters the picture you end up mixing and matching components and then your grumbling because your consistently resetting or fiddling with something to keep it all playing nice with each another. So my one requirement is to try and stick to one product manufacture and only deviate if there is a true hardware or software need that can not be address using one manufacturer.

When I first started thinking about this at one point I was thinking switchers/splitters to extenders /w local loop and IR which meant multiple TX/RX at both ends. I was like no that's just crazy. I need a switching matrix and RXs and some sort of independent control for each room, but I am currently only using 1080p. If one of the main TVs goes out then the replacement will be 4K. So now I need to upgrade the solution, which now means that I need to forward think and get a solution that can handle [email protected] HMDI 2 and HDCP2.2.

I can solve part of the issue for the short term for $50-$100 but then add additional monthly and now your just driving already out of control monthly bills higher. and whats the point then, the monthly entertainment cost are already high. The cost in long run saves me money and de-clutters making my wife happy.
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post #4 of 12 Old 05-30-2020, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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So it looks like my problem might be control first off. As I have Dish 722/722K receivers which only have IR control, but in the future if I move the Hopper and 2 joeys then I could control with IP, I know Control4 works with Hopper, but have not finished.

Can anyone toss out the names of some of the different control systems, other then Extron and Crestron, not saying I wont look at them but I am already aware of them, and to my knowledge you have to use a integrator, not sure if Kramer is that picky. I am not afraid to program, I am just rusty at it (C++,C#, VB, Java) most of my current work is with VB and PS scripting.
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post #5 of 12 Old 06-01-2020, 06:27 PM
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Control4 is dealer sold/supported, but the programming software is available in a home edition for the end user. It can do just about everything the dealer version can do (need a dealer to add devices to the system or change wiring). There’s a couple other threads at the top of this forum talking about it.


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post #6 of 12 Old 06-02-2020, 02:37 PM
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Aside from the control question, Iwould challenge you in terms of thinking about centralizing video playback and the using matrix switches for distribution.

Most content today can be adequately played back by an Nvidia Shield or a Apple 4K TV. We use Plex with a cablecard feed as a DVR, and all our DvD's and Blurays are ripped and accessible in every room. Plus I can run Disney+, Netflix, YouTube and HBO max with full native resolution feeding the TV in each room locally.

For those rooms where I drive a receiver, I use Vertex2 HDMI switches and send the audio stream back to a central rack with the receivers in it. Moving HD audio over Cat6 is easy, and much cheaper than trying to deal with ever increasing HDMI bitrates 18, 48 and 54 Gbps, and more coming in the future). You feed the STB's with gigabit ethernet, and can use a local RF control, and the Vertex switches can handle local 4K content sources like game consoles easily.

The future is all digital streaming, not satellite STB's. But even there, both AT&T and Dish have clients that run on open STBs like the Nvidia Shield or Apple TV anyway.
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post #7 of 12 Old 06-12-2020, 11:46 PM
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The two easiest ways to control your media sources without hiring a programmer is



1) Logitech 650 universal remotes on eBay (~$50 each). You'll need one for each room. Don't get the harmony hub units. You can then buy an inexpensive 4x4 HDbaseT matrix for around $1500 with 4K to 1080p downscaling. This will accommodate your mix of 1080p and 4K TVs. Both Monoprice and No Hassle AV have units for around $1500. Monoprice has questionable reliability and support. These HDbaseT matrix units will have built in IR routing...so the IR commands from the Logitech will be sent to your media sources at your rack


2) Simple Control App with associated IR hardware that they well. This requires a bit of easy configuration but I've had good experience with it.



Other than that, I'm not aware of any simple solution for regular consumers to control all their media sources without extensive programming.
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post #8 of 12 Old 06-14-2020, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan07 View Post
The two easiest ways to control your media sources without hiring a programmer is



1) Logitech 650 universal remotes on eBay (~$50 each). You'll need one for each room. Don't get the harmony hub units. You can then buy an inexpensive 4x4 HDbaseT matrix for around $1500 with 4K to 1080p downscaling. This will accommodate your mix of 1080p and 4K TVs. Both Monoprice and No Hassle AV have units for around $1500. Monoprice has questionable reliability and support. These HDbaseT matrix units will have built in IR routing...so the IR commands from the Logitech will be sent to your media sources at your rack


2) Simple Control App with associated IR hardware that they well. This requires a bit of easy configuration but I've had good experience with it.



Other than that, I'm not aware of any simple solution for regular consumers to control all their media sources without extensive programming.
Why not the HUB? NVM I see the hub it more about voice and away from home control.

Last edited by CyberJoe; 06-14-2020 at 04:43 PM.
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post #9 of 12 Old 06-14-2020, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan07 View Post
The two easiest ways to control your media sources without hiring a programmer is



1) Logitech 650 universal remotes on eBay (~$50 each). You'll need one for each room. Don't get the harmony hub units. You can then buy an inexpensive 4x4 HDbaseT matrix for around $1500 with 4K to 1080p downscaling. This will accommodate your mix of 1080p and 4K TVs. Both Monoprice and No Hassle AV have units for around $1500. Monoprice has questionable reliability and support. These HDbaseT matrix units will have built in IR routing...so the IR commands from the Logitech will be sent to your media sources at your rack


2) Simple Control App with associated IR hardware that they well. This requires a bit of easy configuration but I've had good experience with it.



Other than that, I'm not aware of any simple solution for regular consumers to control all their media sources without extensive programming.
What about the Harmony Express?

Also can the Harmony be set to use multi versions of IR? I saw a notice about the dish receivers and IR ver 1-16. I believe to keep Dish remotes from cross talking, thus I have to set one STB to a different IR version. So I guess my concern is would I have trouble using 2 remotes with 2 different Disc VIP722's or even the hoppers/joeys without interfering with the other STB, not the TV2 setup, I already determined that TV2 setup with the 722s would not be able to have the STB controlled by a harmony. But this could still work out if I use switching matrix to do video distro.

Last edited by CyberJoe; 06-14-2020 at 04:51 PM.
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post #10 of 12 Old 06-14-2020, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hm starting to think Video Storm Netplay Home might be the route to go, because of the Sec cam PiP option.

If I cannot find a reasonable option that would provide me the sec cam feed as a PiP on motion, then I might just call it a day and upgrade to the hopper and a couple more Rokus and call it day. My wife does not want to put a lot a money into Video distribution. She rather put some towards an audio solution for our parties.

As anyone heard of shinybowusa? They kept cropping up in my searches for HDBaseT Matrix switches with EDID controls, PiP option and local mirror.
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-14-2020, 09:49 PM
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1) Never used Harmony express but it has bad reviews on Amazon. The 650 is a tried and true remote!
2) You don't need different versions of Dish IR. The matrix units that I referenced to previously have built in IR routing. So even if you had 8 dish boxes connected, the matrix's would intelligently know which one to control without any overlap
3) We gave netplay a shot. its nice but has a few downsides

a) IP streaming is highly compressed. Its nothing like HDbaseT quality. There's a reason why netplay doesn't list detailed specs on their supported resolutions on their website. Its just listed as "1080p" or "4K". No details about compression. No details about Chroma 444, 420, 422?
b) The pricing is really high for what you get. An 8x8 system would require a $3820 encoder chassis, a $200 gigabit network switch, and 8 decoders for $4792. That's a total system price of $8812. The No Hassle AV 8x16 HDR 18gbps unit is $3999 on Amazon, but it lacks the PIP that you're looking for.
c) So if you absolutely need the PIP and don't mind compressed resolutions...get an IP solution. Is you want to pay less than half the price and get the highest uncompressed resolutions, go with HDbaseT

4) I used Shinybow a TON 10 years ago because they were one of the first companies to offer direct-to-consumer matrix alternatives to Crestron. But I've stopped using them because their pricing is double or triple the price of other superior matrix alternatives
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post #12 of 12 Old 06-15-2020, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan07 View Post
1) Never used Harmony express but it has bad reviews on Amazon. The 650 is a tried and true remote!
2) You don't need different versions of Dish IR. The matrix units that I referenced to previously have built in IR routing. So even if you had 8 dish boxes connected, the matrix's would intelligently know which one to control without any overlap
3) We gave netplay a shot. its nice but has a few downsides

a) IP streaming is highly compressed. Its nothing like HDbaseT quality. There's a reason why netplay doesn't list detailed specs on their supported resolutions on their website. Its just listed as "1080p" or "4K". No details about compression. No details about Chroma 444, 420, 422?
b) The pricing is really high for what you get. An 8x8 system would require a $3820 encoder chassis, a $200 gigabit network switch, and 8 decoders for $4792. That's a total system price of $8812. The No Hassle AV 8x16 HDR 18gbps unit is $3999 on Amazon, but it lacks the PIP that you're looking for.
c) So if you absolutely need the PIP and don't mind compressed resolutions...get an IP solution. Is you want to pay less than half the price and get the highest uncompressed resolutions, go with HDbaseT

4) I used Shinybow a TON 10 years ago because they were one of the first companies to offer direct-to-consumer matrix alternatives to Crestron. But I've stopped using them because their pricing is double or triple the price of other superior matrix alternatives
Thanks for the info.
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