New Lumagen Radiance XS - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 151 Old 09-16-2009, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Seems odd that there hasn't been an "official" notification on the boards here, but for the benefit of those who don't follow the firmware thread, it appears Lumagen has "soft" launched a new VP.

Info on their website.

Cheers!

Edit: dropped the "new" from the thread title.
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post #2 of 151 Old 09-16-2009, 07:56 PM
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No MSRP yet?

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my previous or current employers.
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post #3 of 151 Old 09-16-2009, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JoshA View Post

No MSRP yet?

The other thread had someone mention that it was about $4K. Can't find where they got that from...
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post #4 of 151 Old 09-16-2009, 08:52 PM
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InterestingI thought the XD name was chosen because it was the Dual-output Radiance, and XS was because it was going to be a Single output device. (then again, I suppose that changed when the XE came out, unless the E stands for something?)

It looks like this has two outputs. I wonder if they're both outputting video or if one is an audio-only port. (similar to what the EDGE has)


Looking forward to seeing a priceI wonder how much they've managed to reduce the cost compared to the Radiance XD/XE. (which, incidentally, seems to cost about 50% more than it did at the beginning of 2008!) The main difference here just seems to be a reduction in the number of inputs. (I assume the internal processing is going to be the same)

Four HDMI inputs is pretty stingy, especially when a cheap device like the EDGE is offering six and the newly announced iScan Duo has eight inputs and three outputs. (2x video, 1x audio)
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post #5 of 151 Old 09-16-2009, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

I wonder how much they've managed to reduce the cost compared to the Radiance XD/XE. (which, incidentally, seems to cost about 50% more than it did at the beginning of 2008!)

At this rate I'll never own a Lumagen.

Maybe this one will deal with 240p? That's been on their roadmap for...has it been two years yet? It seems like an eternity.

Anyone know which chipset this unit uses? GF9452? GF9450? Any surprises under the hood?
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post #6 of 151 Old 09-16-2009, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

At this rate I'll never own a Lumagen.

Maybe this one will deal with 240p? That's been on their roadmap for...has it been two years yet? It seems like an eternity.

I'm just glad I got rid of my Radiance when I did, as there are a lot of features I was waiting for that still haven't been implemented yet as far as I can see. (like passthrough, game mode, 21-point greyscale correction and more)

Still no sign of a Radiance Pro yet either which is disappointing, as it sounded like they would possibly go with higher precision processing (10-bit doesn't seem like enough for everything they do and my HTPC does everything in 16-bit now) and allow resolutions above 1080p. (ideally I'd have at least [email protected] for my CRT) Then again, given the current price of the XD/XE, I don't know how I could possibly afford a higher-spec processor from them.


I assume that all Radiances will at least share the same processing and that it's just the input/output boards that are changing so that any feature changes apply to all three of them.
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post #7 of 151 Old 09-17-2009, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

I'm just glad I got rid of my Radiance when I did, as there are a lot of features I was waiting for that still haven't been implemented yet as far as I can see. (like passthrough, game mode, 21-point greyscale correction and more)

Still no sign of a Radiance Pro yet either which is disappointing, as it sounded like they would possibly go with higher precision processing (10-bit doesn't seem like enough for everything they do and my HTPC does everything in 16-bit now) and allow resolutions above 1080p. (ideally I'd have at least [email protected] for my CRT) Then again, given the current price of the XD/XE, I don't know how I could possibly afford a higher-spec processor from them.


I assume that all Radiances will at least share the same processing and that it's just the input/output boards that are changing so that any feature changes apply to all three of them.

Features are added in priority they are required. If enough folk ask for a feature it goes up the list...at least Lumagen actually do add features and performance and fix bugs unlike some other companies who do not and sometimes do not even put in the features they promised.

XS uses an all in one integrated PCB so it is not modular and upgradeable like the sub processing in the XD/XE. It is exactly the same video performance.

XD is so much more now than it was then due to the fact it came out of beta (and price went up) then there was this small thing where the economies of the word tanked and the pound collapsed against the dollar. You will still find that Lumagen pricing in UK is very competitive compared to other US imported products...and not only that you have the support of someone who actually understands the product.

I don't know what they have decided with regards to price yet, sorry.
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post #8 of 151 Old 09-17-2009, 07:23 AM
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I'm pretty sure that someone from Sencore posted hte $4k price for the XS somewhere in these parts. I'll see if I can dig it up.

As I said in the other thread, I'm really torn about the price, I think it's very expensive, but people have to realize you're paying for far more than "just" state of the art performance, as Lumagen is constantly fixing the product and adding new features. So in the end I think you get what you pay for, especially when compared to Anchorbay. See what those owners have to say regarding updates...

Also, it's not too hard to get a used XD for much less than the new XS' price these days.
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post #9 of 151 Old 09-17-2009, 08:59 AM
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Hopefully its not 4K. Otherwise there goes my dream of owning Lumagen processor with HDMI at a reasonable price.

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post #10 of 151 Old 09-17-2009, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

but people have to realize you're paying for far more than "just" state of the art performance, as Lumagen is constantly fixing the product and adding new features.

True but Lumagen has been doing that for years......they did the same thing with their Vision line......which costs a heck of a lot yes. Honestly, I have no idea if 4K is a fair price or not......unfortunately for me it still keeps me from upgrading my ProHDP.

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post #11 of 151 Old 09-18-2009, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

The other thread had someone mention that it was about $4K. Can't find where they got that from...

i think it is worth the price you are saying, coz with so many featyutres they are offering, it has to be that costly
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post #12 of 151 Old 09-18-2009, 08:15 AM
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The $4k comes from someone at Sencore that posted here on AVS, but that was back in March. Don't know if that's changed since then, I doubt it, but a $3k price point would be a bit more palatable for sure.
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post #13 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 03:39 AM
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There should a US$ MSRP by now. The suggested retail in the UK is 2650 GBP, which is reasonable.

Does anyone know how much the SDI upgrade will be and when it will be available ?
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post #14 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

There should a US$ MSRP by now. The suggested retail in the UK is 2650 GBP, which is reasonable.

Does anyone know how much the SDI upgrade will be and when it will be available ?


I emailed Sencore and they quoted me $3499. Awesome product as usual, but still way out of my reach.

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post #15 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 07:11 AM
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I guess $3.5k is better then $4k. Still too expensive though. But I've said it before and I'll say it again - when you buy Lumagen you're buying support much more than the product itself.
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post #16 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 09:30 AM
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I have the XS in stock with 30% off retail

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post #17 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 10:52 AM
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I have the XS in stock with 30% off retail

Glen

Are you an authorized retailer?
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post #18 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 12:05 PM
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Yes, all Radiance comes from Sencore. I do have new XS and XE in stock.

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post #19 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 07:29 PM
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Just to add a bit of confirmation and additional comments to some other posts:

The RadianceXS is $3495 USA retail.

The name is now a bit of a historical curiosity, as we decided to have two outputs in the RadianceXS. I guess the "S" now stands for "Sensational"

The two HDMI 1.3 outputs have the same functionality as the RadianceXD/XE units. That is both can carry audio and/or video.

The XS has 4 HDMI 1.3, 2 component, 2 composite, and 2 SVideo video inputs.

Picure quality and setup are the same for the XD, XE, and the XS.

The RadianceXS is a 1U high case (1.75") verses 2U (3.5") for the XD/XE.

The XS will not support PiP and does not have trigger outputs.

Sencore is our exclusive "Master Distributor" for the Radiance. We are working with Sencore and Spectracal (a.k.a. calman) on semi-automatic and automatic calibration using the Radiance.

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post #20 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post

We are working with Sencore and Spectracal (a.k.a. calman) on semi-automatic and automatic calibration using the Radiance.

Now THAT is a sweet idea - something that's been discussed for a long time but I have yet to see implemented anywhere. As always, Lumagen seems to lead the VP pack in features/functionality and customer service

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post #21 of 151 Old 10-08-2009, 09:46 PM
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We are working with Sencore and Spectracal (a.k.a. calman) on semi-automatic and automatic calibration using the Radiance.

Don't forget to talk to Cliff at Progressive Labs.

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post #22 of 151 Old 10-12-2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post

Sencore is our exclusive "Master Distributor" for the Radiance. We are working with Sencore and Spectracal (a.k.a. calman) on semi-automatic and automatic calibration using the Radiance.

I hope that'll come as an update to existing Calman customers. Not necessarily a free update (though that would be nice of course), but I mean not requiring to buy a special probe and/or an entirely different license for the program.
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post #23 of 151 Old 10-12-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Now THAT is a sweet idea - something that's been discussed for a long time but I have yet to see implemented anywhere. As always, Lumagen seems to lead the VP pack in features/functionality and customer service

Not to toot one's own horn, but one of the things I think we did right from the outset was to work with VP manufacturers to tie calibration software into the controls/features they provided.

Color accuracy evangelist and CalMAN insider
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post #24 of 151 Old 10-13-2009, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Now THAT is a sweet idea - something that's been discussed for a long time but I have yet to see implemented anywhere. As always, Lumagen seems to lead the VP pack in features/functionality and customer service

We demonstrated this capability in a early prototype version of CalMAN v4 at CEDIA

What we demonstrated at CEDIA was the addition of interactive charts for controlling the Radiance. Instead of just coming up with something that looks like a remote control or a bunch of buttons and sliders we have the charts control the Radiance itself. So an example of this is with a CIE Gamut chart that shows where the measured colors are in regards to the targets like we do today those measured points on the chart can be moved yes I said moved to the place you would like them. So if for example green is over saturated as it seems to be in most displays being built today all you need to do is grab green and drag it down to the rec709 target and we do all the rest on the backend to figure out what was needed to get it there. Same Gamut Luminance, Grayscale and Gamma just move the points on the chart and you have calibrated the Radiance it's that simple. You should have seen the demos in the Sencore booth at CEDIA people could not believe what they were seeing when all I had to do was grab and color and move it to the place I wanted it.

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post #25 of 151 Old 10-13-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

I hope that'll come as an update to existing Calman customers. Not necessarily a free update (though that would be nice of course), but I mean not requiring to buy a special probe and/or an entirely different license for the program.

All of this plus many new features will be in CalMAN v4. Our support policy is you get updates for the first year included with the original purchase. After that you need to buy annual maintenance for updates. See our website for details and pricing.

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post #26 of 151 Old 10-13-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

All of this plus many new features will be in CalMAN v4. Our support policy is you get updates for the first year included with the original purchase. After that you need to buy annual maintenance for updates. See our website for details and pricing.

That's fair. Although I would prefer a one time fee for existing v3 customers to upgrade to v4, but then that fee might have to be more expensive than the annual maintenance fee so...

Something that's no clear is whether one can buy the annual maintenance after the one year anniversary. I never bothered with my C5/Calman Home package, but might if it means getting v4.
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post #27 of 151 Old 10-13-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

We demonstrated this capability in a early prototype version of CalMAN v4 at CEDIA

What we demonstrated at CEDIA was the addition of interactive charts for controlling the Radiance. Instead of just coming up with something that looks like a remote control or a bunch of buttons and sliders we have the charts control the Radiance itself. So an example of this is with a CIE Gamut chart that shows where the measured colors are in regards to the targets like we do today those measured points on the chart can be moved yes I said moved to the place you would like them. So if for example green is over saturated as it seems to be in most displays being built today all you need to do is grab green and drag it down to the rec709 target and we do all the rest on the backend to figure out what was needed to get it there. Same Gamut Luminance, Grayscale and Gamma just move the points on the chart and you have calibrated the Radiance it's that simple. You should have seen the demos in the Sencore booth at CEDIA people could not believe what they were seeing when all I had to do was grab and color and move it to the place I wanted it.

That sounds so incredibly awesome... but I'll reserve judgment until I see it. If that's really the way it works, you're going to put a few calibrators out of work... So goes technology I guess.
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post #28 of 151 Old 10-13-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

Just to add a bit of confirmation and additional comments to some other posts:

The RadianceXS is $3495 USA retail.

The name is now a bit of a historical curiosity, as we decided to have two outputs in the RadianceXS. I guess the "S" now stands for "Sensational"

The two HDMI 1.3 outputs have the same functionality as the RadianceXD/XE units. That is both can carry audio and/or video.

The XS has 4 HDMI 1.3, 2 component, 2 composite, and 2 SVideo video inputs.

Picure quality and setup are the same for the XD, XE, and the XS.

The RadianceXS is a 1U high case (1.75") verses 2U (3.5") for the XD/XE.

The XS will not support PiP and does not have trigger outputs.

Sencore is our exclusive "Master Distributor" for the Radiance. We are working with Sencore and Spectracal (a.k.a. calman) on semi-automatic and automatic calibration using the Radiance.

God I have to update the FAQ. Could someone - anyone - please add a few hours to my day for the next few weeks? TIA
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post #29 of 151 Old 10-14-2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

All of this plus many new features will be in CalMAN v4. Our support policy is you get updates for the first year included with the original purchase. After that you need to buy annual maintenance for updates. See our website for details and pricing.

will this be in all license levels of CalMAN (like Home License, which I have)? or will it be limited to the higher levels like Pro/Enthusiast?
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post #30 of 151 Old 10-19-2009, 10:51 PM
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wow, that's great news - the auto calibration feature is something I've been waiting on, ever since I started playing with calibration and settings. Question is, what sensor will this require, what the price will be and how it will interface with the unit.

Just finished upgrading my system over from XD to XE (after staying with the HDP Pro for a very long time) and I have to say that the progress that this unit has made since the HDP Pro is quite dramatic.

There's really no comparison between the HDP Pro to the XD. In the early days of the XD, the HDP Pro had way more features (which kept me from physically switching over, although I had both units) and I reluctantly ended up switching to the XD prematurely after my HDP Pro stopped talking to my main HD STB (turns out it was due to some software changes in the STB's HDCP sub system). Slowly but surely, the feature-set expanded. At this point, the XD/XE software exceeds all my expectations by a mile.

Performance wise, the XD has really come into its own. It is noticeably sharper and does a great job at pretty much everything. The only thing my older system did better was mosquito reduction using the "algolith mosquito" for my old analog SD STB.

While the GUI with competing systems may be easier to learn, the new Lumagen GUI is really nice and I rarely see it anymore (everything is preprogrammed and I only get notifications during aspect ratio changes and input changes). I love the help feature when I need to modify something (although I can probably tell you the order in which the menus are layed out, if you wake me up at 4am...).

The scaling algorithm is really something. Whereas deinterlacing is pretty much on par with what ABT is doing now (a huge step up from HDP Pro), Lumagen's scaling is currently unmatched, IMHO. It is sharp, accurate, and almost flawless in handling low res content.

I like Genum's contrast stretching feature and I have a special mode (B) that turns that on. Low quality material (yes, HD too, e.g., - the new BSG movie) can really benefit from this. The downside is that contrast stretching can squeeze out low and high IRE content if there's not much information there.

Due to issues with my display, I have turned off, for the first time in ages, the genlock and rate matching features recently. I discovered that this has no real impact on my viewing experience (although this was one of my pet peeves a while back).

Anyway, I don't chime in too much anymore in the forums (not enough time on my hands), but I have to say this is hands down the best scaler I've had. Ever. And it keeps getting better.

About the XS - I just found out about it this morning. I think it's a simplified (S=simple?) version of the XD/XE with less inputs and the same featureset. I really think this is a great idea as the XD and XE are not exactly affordable for many enthusiasts and this can finally offer them the opportunity to upgrade at an affordable price.

Cheers,
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