Official Lumagen RadianceMini 3D thread. - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 38Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1381 of 1516 Old 04-15-2015, 05:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Audiojan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 385
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Interesting… seems like the problem you see is the polar opposite of what I see. I do think I may have figured out why I have the problem them… and it has nothing to do with neither of the two video processors… My HDMI cables are all redmere cables and those are directional. When I place the Darbee after the Mini 3D, I would need to change the direction of the cable and I didn't… going to check tomorrow if it may have been that simple.

"Suddenly the thought struck me, my floor is someone elses ceiling" - Nils Ferlin
Audiojan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1382 of 1516 Old 04-21-2015, 01:05 AM
Senior Member
 
Drem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Just got a Radiance Mini-3D and am really delighted with the results. However I am curious about what settings are really correct for my setup, which consists of a Oppo 95 bdplayer and a Sony VW-95ES projector.

Player: Set to Source Direct and HDMI YCbCr 422. I am unsure as what to set the bit depth and dithering to? If I set it to OFF, will the Lumagen do the dithering and bit depth processing?

Projector: Set to "Full" aspect ratio. No further settings need to be applied for it to recieve the Lumagen signal without altering it?

Last edited by Drem; 04-21-2015 at 01:09 AM.
Drem is offline  
post #1383 of 1516 Old 04-21-2015, 01:40 PM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 1137
Drem:

Sounds like the Oppo is set up correctly.

For the Radiance select 4:2:2 output mode. This outputs 12-bits and the "Auto" dither setting (the default) is to not dither. For 4:2:2 output mode you wold only select dither to a lower bit depth than 12 if the TV/projector as a precision issue.

One example is a digital display with 60 Hertz refresh that shows some banding in dark areas. In this case dither to a lower bit depth may well mitigate the display's issues to some degree.

Generally I find that TVs built in the last couple year show less banding than earlier models. Still many digital displays have issue still. Many default to a lower Gamma setting (e.g. 1.8 rather than 2.2) to hide noise issues near black. So there are still issues in digital displays that you might need to consider when you calibrate, and when you select a dither setting.
AVfile likes this.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1384 of 1516 Old 04-22-2015, 08:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Drem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Drem:

Sounds like the Oppo is set up correctly.

For the Radiance select 4:2:2 output mode. This outputs 12-bits and the "Auto" dither setting (the default) is to not dither. For 4:2:2 output mode you wold only select dither to a lower bit depth than 12 if the TV/projector as a precision issue.

One example is a digital display with 60 Hertz refresh that shows some banding in dark areas. In this case dither to a lower bit depth may well mitigate the display's issues to some degree.

Generally I find that TVs built in the last couple year show less banding than earlier models. Still many digital displays have issue still. Many default to a lower Gamma setting (e.g. 1.8 rather than 2.2) to hide noise issues near black. So there are still issues in digital displays that you might need to consider when you calibrate, and when you select a dither setting.
Thanks for the input Jim ! The Oppo has all kinds of bit depth settings. 36bits, 30bits, etc. Does it even make any difference what I set this to when sending the signal to the Lumagen? 36bits or OFF?

Last edited by Drem; 04-22-2015 at 08:28 AM.
Drem is offline  
post #1385 of 1516 Old 05-01-2015, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AVfile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 2,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drem View Post
Thanks for the input Jim ! The Oppo has all kinds of bit depth settings. 36bits, 30bits, etc. Does it even make any difference what I set this to when sending the signal to the Lumagen? 36bits or OFF?
I would assume that the first time Jim answered was in regards to the OFF setting you had cited and he said it was correct. By the way, OFF means standard 24-bit (no Deep Color) which is perfect for Blu-ray and DVD movies. Assuming you are just playing commercially released movies you will never encounter Deep Colour.

In my opinion it does not make sense to turn on these increased bit-depth options as all they would do is pad the data with extra zeroes. This only increases bandwidth requirements on your HDMI cable and may complicate the HDCP handshake process with your display.

"This one goes to eleven." Martin Logan Descent-i subwoofer

Last edited by AVfile; 05-01-2015 at 11:41 AM.
AVfile is offline  
post #1386 of 1516 Old 05-04-2015, 07:09 AM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 1137
AVfile is correct.

Consumer sources use compressed 8-bit 4:2:0, and deep color cannot provide any additional information. Even after points are moved in the RGB color space for calibration, 4:2:2 at 12-bits is more than enough to accurately respresent these sources. Deep color is not going to improve the quality, and as AVfile points out, it will increase the bit-rate and potentially can cause additional HDMI cable issues.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
post #1387 of 1516 Old 05-08-2015, 08:30 PM
Senior Member
 
smuggymba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Help with aspect ratio settings

Need help with Lumagen mini with my 2.35 screen and Sony Hw55 and Oppo 103-D

I'm trying to setup "Dolphin Tale 2" for the kids which is 1.85. I followed the instructions below but the image is still splitting outside the 2.35 screen. I could manually reduce the zoom on my Sony HW55 but want to see how I can do it through Lumagen mini. What am I messing up?

The PJ zoom was manually set so I can see the 2.35 movie perfectly. I did all the lumagen settings afterwards.


__________________________________________________ __________________________________

http://www.lumagen.com/docs/Tip0016_...ens_032712.pdf

Procedure


This is the procedure to configure the Radiance for a system that includes a 16:9 projector
and a 2.35 screen. This procedure requires software rev 011812 or higher and assumes that
you are starting with factory default settings. To do a factory reset press “MENU 0999” and
then press “MENU, Save, OK, OK, OK”.

1. Set the output aspect ratio by pressing "MENU, Output, Styles, [1], Aspect Ratio, OK,
Single output aspect, OK, 235, OK”.

2. Set the output aspect sidebars to black by pressing “MENU, Output, Styles, [1],
Graybar, Sides, 0%, OK”.

3. Set the output shrink by pressing “MENU, Output, Styles, [1], Mask/Shrink, Shrink,
Top:12%, Right:0%, Bottom:12%, Left:0%, OK”.

Note: If you set the projector so that the image only spills over the top of the screen, set
the output shrink to “Top:24%, Right:0%, Bottom:0%, Left:0%”.

4. Set scale bias off by pressing “MENU, Input, Video Setup, [resolution], Size, [1.85],
Scale Bias, Off, All, A-D, OK”.

5. When you are finished, save the new settings by pressing “MENU, Save, OK, OK, OK".

6. Set the projector to its default 16:9 mode. (Sony is set to Normal zoom)

7. Set all the video sources to widescreen 16:9 output. (what does this mean?, I have an oppo 103-D and the source is Blu-Ray 1.85)

8. Press the appropriate input aspect ratio button on the Lumagen remote that matches the
aspect of the video input. To horizontally stretch a 16:9 image to fill the 2.35 screen,
press “16:9” and then press “NLS”.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Last edited by smuggymba; 05-08-2015 at 09:02 PM.
smuggymba is offline  
post #1388 of 1516 Old 05-09-2015, 02:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,831
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 261
I don't have a Mini3D anymore, but I have the newer 2041 which is set up using the same tip as you've posted up there.

In my case the projector zoom is set to fill the screen with 2.35:1 content (and the 2.35 button pressed on the Lumagen remote). The projector aspect is set to 16:9 (ie no anamorphic settings on, but I have a JVC X500, so I don't know the name on a Sony, but it is basically just the setting that doesn't do any stretching).

I don't think you need to worry about the Oppo, but check it isn't set to zoom.

You should be able to press 1.85 (or 16:9/1.78:1) and have the image then 'shrink' so that the height fits on your screen, leaving black bars each side. If the image overspills the top and bottom of the screen then you haven't set the Lumagen up correctly: Make sure you press 'save' twice after making the changes in the tip and that you are on the same input and memory that you are using your player with. I can assure that it does work as described (and I did try it with my Mini3D too).

Finally, I guess you are aware of this, but when 'shrinking' the image for 1.85/16:9 content you are reducing the resolution of the image so that it is approximately 1440 x 810. The rest of the image is projected 'black'.

This is fine for quick AR changes like viewing trailers or disc menus, but if I'm watching a whole 1.85:1 film then I rezoom my projector and use a separate memory on my Lumagen so that I view this content at the full 1920 x 1080. However in my case I have lens memory so this is easier to do, so it is more of a pain with a manual/no memory zoom, but it just depends on how much you value picture quality.
AVfile and smuggymba like this.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #1389 of 1516 Old 05-09-2015, 01:55 PM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 1137
smuggymba:

The instructions for the Radiance assume you have not tried to do aspect ratio control in the projector or source device. Sounds like you have tried with your projector.

The projector is set as 16:9 (step 6). So you will likely have to undo whatever you did in the projector for aspect ratio control. The source is also set to say it is driving a "16:9 TV" (Step 7 and the answer to your question). On most Bluray players you will set it a "16:9" TV and "Full" output mode so it does not try to change aspect ratios.

When setup per the instruction you would just press 1.85 to watch a 1.85 movie.

If you are having trouble, feel free to give us a call on Monday (503-574-2211) when you have your system up and running and can enter menu commands to change the setup.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
post #1390 of 1516 Old 05-09-2015, 07:43 PM
Senior Member
 
smuggymba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
This is fine for quick AR changes like viewing trailers or disc menus, but if I'm watching a whole 1.85:1 film then I rezoom my projector and use a separate memory on my Lumagen so that I view this content at the full 1920 x 1080. However in my case I have lens memory so this is easier to do, so it is more of a pain with a manual/no memory zoom, but it just depends on how much you value picture quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
smuggymba:

The instructions for the Radiance assume you have not tried to do aspect ratio control in the projector or source device. Sounds like you have tried with your projector.

The projector is set as 16:9 (step 6). So you will likely have to undo whatever you did in the projector for aspect ratio control. The source is also set to say it is driving a "16:9 TV" (Step 7 and the answer to your question). On most Bluray players you will set it a "16:9" TV and "Full" output mode so it does not try to change aspect ratios.

When setup per the instruction you would just press 1.85 to watch a 1.85 movie.

If you are having trouble, feel free to give us a call on Monday (503-574-2211) when you have your system up and running and can enter menu commands to change the setup.
Thanks Kelvin and JRP.

Kelvin - I definitely want better quality and I'm willing to go through more steps to achieve this. I have Sony HW55 PJ and it does NOT have lens memory. Can I achieve full 1920 x 1080 with Lumagen or will I have to manually zoom with PJ?

JRP - Travelling for the next couple of weeks, will definitely call as soon as I'm back. Need to sort this out for sure.

Yesterday, I put on Breaking Bad @ Netflix which is 16:9 so I had the picture fill in the width of my 2.35 screen (some picture was flowing over on the top). That was my starting point. The PJ is set to "normal" zoom.

Then I did all the Lumagen settings as per the pdf (for 2.35 or 1.85 or 2.37) but didn't quite work. Of course, I'm doing something wrong. Will call Lumagen shortly.
smuggymba is offline  
post #1391 of 1516 Old 05-09-2015, 08:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AVfile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 2,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
I definitely want better quality and I'm willing to go through more steps to achieve this. I have Sony HW55 PJ and it does NOT have lens memory. Can I achieve full 1920 x 1080 with Lumagen or will I have to manually zoom with PJ?



I put on Breaking Bad @ Netflix which is 16:9 so I had the picture fill in the width of my 2.35 screen (some picture was flowing over on the top). That was my starting point. The PJ is set to "normal" zoom.

In this case It should fill the height of the screen, not the width. Press the 16:9 button on the Radiance and (manually) Set the PJ zoom so that the entire picture is on the screen. You will have to mentally ignore the side pillars, or cover them with some kind of black material.
smuggymba likes this.

"This one goes to eleven." Martin Logan Descent-i subwoofer
AVfile is offline  
post #1392 of 1516 Old 05-10-2015, 01:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,831
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 261
Yes, that is what I do for a whole 1.85:1 film; Lumagen in 16:9 mode and projector zoomed back so that the image fills the screen height leaving black side bars. I then I hang a pair of black velvet side panels to cover the unused sides of the screen as a final tweak.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #1393 of 1516 Old 06-07-2015, 04:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Socio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,391
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 37
I have an odd problem, my mini 3d goes to first a static then blank screen about every 20 minutes or so but only when watching Netflix, I watch via a PS3, BR movies and games are fine on the PS3, I do not have the problem with my cable TV and HDDVD player either, just Nexflix?

Any idea what could be causing the problem?
Socio is offline  
post #1394 of 1516 Old 06-09-2015, 02:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AVfile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 2,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Mine goes blank every time there is a HDMI handshake or change of resolution. Sometimes it stays black and I have to cycle power to get it back. Very annoying.
AVfile is offline  
post #1395 of 1516 Old 06-10-2015, 01:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gordon Fraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: U.K.
Posts: 1,920
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
Mine goes blank every time there is a HDMI handshake or change of resolution. Sometimes it stays black and I have to cycle power to get it back. Very annoying.

How do you know it' is the mini and not another device in the system which is not working correctly? Have you contacted Lumagen or your retailer to try to get to the bottom of what is happening? What is the rest of your equipment. This is most often hdmi handshaking and can be caused by any of the devices in the chain and can be exacerbated by cables. There are also classic examples of display devices that are known to suffer from this, ie JVC X series (rs in USA) projectors where HDMI 1 input behaves differently to HDMI 2. So you get drop outs all the time on HDMI1 while the exact same scenario is completely robust on HDMI 2 (this is without a lumagen product in sight) I'd hope with some more information we can help you try to get a more robust solution

Convergent-AV
ISF, Home Theater Consultants and Distribution, U.K.
Gordon Fraser is offline  
post #1396 of 1516 Old 06-11-2015, 07:12 PM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 1137
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
Mine goes blank every time there is a HDMI handshake or change of resolution. Sometimes it stays black and I have to cycle power to get it back. Very annoying.
I do a lot of debug by phone and I believe about 99% of the time this scenario is the HDMI cable, potentially made worse by a ground loop. People tend to be skeptical until they buy a better HDMI cable and it resolves the issue. I'm not talking an expensive cable. Often the more expensive cables are not as good as the well done generic HDMI cables.

Certainly cannot say this is true here, but I think the first step is to buy a 4k rated passive, or HDBaseT cable. NOTE: The Mini/XS/XD/XE were designed before the advent of Redmere active cables. The HDMI Standby output power is fused to meet the HDMI spec. They are not designed for Redmere. We have seen people use Redmere cables with these and have intermittent issues as the fuse drops the voltage as the Redmere scavenges power above the spec of HDMI. If you have a Redmere cable on the output of the Mini, this is likely a contributing factor.

Also note Radiance 2XXX units have enough power for a Redmere cable on their output (at least the Redmere cables we tested).

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
post #1397 of 1516 Old 06-13-2015, 08:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Surfdrifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Just got a Mini few days ago and i will have a professional come by and calibrate my PJ next week.

Meanwhile, while I try to learn the GUI and the menu navigations I have some questions.

I want to be able to configure Vertical shift, Masking, etc common for ALL resolutions, but it seems that i have to do that independently for each resolution. I could live with that, but I cannot select a resolution that I want to configure manually, unless I find a video that has that specific resolution, which is a PITA.

Am I missing something here? Any tips are helpful.

Also, i have an issue with my Yamha RX-A2030. I have connected the HDMI 1 out of the AVR to my TV and the HDMI 2 out is connected to HDMI 1 in of the Lumagen which feeds the PJ.
Both HDMI outs of the AVR are active

The issue is that If I choose to watch a source to my TV (a ps3, apple tv, etc), there is a grey blinking screen, unless i do one of the two following things

A) Power up the lumagen, even if it is not needed. If i do the signal locks to my tv and then I can safely power off the lumagen.

B) disable the HDMI 2 out of the avr.

I noticed that when the lumagen is on stand by, the hdmi 2 out indication on the Avr blinks.

It seems to me that i have to configure something to either the lumagen or the avr. Also, the audio out is disabled on the HDMI outs on the avr. ( in stand by passthrough mode of course, the audio is sent to the displays)

Any ideas?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Surfdrifter is offline  
post #1398 of 1516 Old 06-13-2015, 09:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AVfile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 2,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
How do you know it' is the mini and not another device in the system which is not working correctly? Have you contacted Lumagen or your retailer to try to get to the bottom of what is happening? What is the rest of your equipment. This is most often hdmi handshaking and can be caused by any of the devices in the chain and can be exacerbated by cables. There are also classic examples of display devices that are known to suffer from this, ie JVC X series (rs in USA) projectors where HDMI 1 input behaves differently to HDMI 2. So you get drop outs all the time on HDMI1 while the exact same scenario is completely robust on HDMI 2 (this is without a lumagen product in sight) I'd hope with some more information we can help you try to get a more robust solution
Thanks for the reply. I have not reached out to anyone for support yet because I have not had time to characterize the problem fully or play with all the HDMI & EDID options in the Radiance. I recognize that the system is complicated by having an Anthem AV processor in the middle, and there may be more than one problem. For the purpose of this discussion, I only use Blu-ray players as sources (Sony 770, 790 set to 1080p with 24p and 3D set to AUTO, and Oppo 83 set to source direct). All sources are set to YCbCr 4:2:2 with no Deep Color or 4K and the Radiance output set to match.

I've been living with the slow, repeated handshakes for years. I used to run a CRT so the HDFury3 was my "display device" and I just assumed it was being finicky. The Anthem is an AVM-50v3D model with its video processor set to pass-through, so it should be just acting as an HDMI switch passing the source signal on to the Radiance. The problem has always been with the screen blanking out for several seconds and re-establishing, multiple times when loading a Blu-ray, watching trailers, going to the menu and selecting features to watch. I attribute this to brief changes of resolution or frame rate in the source material, but I do have fixed resolutions selected in the source and Radiance set to keep a fixed resolution and frame rate. Other than missing the first 10-15 seconds of a trailer or featurette I could live with this.

However about a year ago I went to a digital projector (Sony 95ES) and things got worse instead of better. In addition to the above delays, when the system is powered-on cold I get a black screen despite the HDMI connection to the PJ being established (the OSD indicates HDMI1 is receiving an input signal). I have the PJ setup to display a blue background when there is no signal, which I never see unless I switch to the unused HDMI2 (thus confirming OSD indicates "x" when no signal is present). So the PJ thinks there is something to display but there is no picture present.

I did some troubleshooting today. I first tried cycling power on the source player, no effect; then the Anthem processor, no effect; then toggled input selection on the PJ, no effect (it went to the blue screen, as expected, then back to black). Only putting the Radiance in Standby for 5 seconds then turning it back ON resulted in the correct image appearing. I then turned the entire system OFF (my programmable remote turns everything off and on at once) and waited a few minutes for the PJ to finish its cooling cycle and shut down. I turned everything back on the same way as the first time and got an image right away! The only difference possible being the electronics were still warm as opposed to sitting all night.

I have recently started using "Split A/V" with the Sony 790 sending audio only to the Anthem and video directly to the Radiance Input 2. This seems to have reduced or sped-up the handshake delays I mentioned above but has done nothing to ameliorate the black screen on startup. I also noticed the Radiance had input Auto Select and Reselect features enabled which I have now disabled as I have programmed my remote macros to force selection of the correct inputs.

"This one goes to eleven." Martin Logan Descent-i subwoofer
AVfile is offline  
post #1399 of 1516 Old 06-13-2015, 09:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AVfile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 2,581
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
I do a lot of debug by phone and I believe about 99% of the time this scenario is the HDMI cable, potentially made worse by a ground loop. People tend to be skeptical until they buy a better HDMI cable and it resolves the issue. I'm not talking an expensive cable. Often the more expensive cables are not as good as the well done generic HDMI cables.

Certainly cannot say this is true here, but I think the first step is to buy a 4k rated passive, or HDBaseT cable. NOTE: The Mini/XS/XD/XE were designed before the advent of Redmere active cables. The HDMI Standby output power is fused to meet the HDMI spec. They are not designed for Redmere. We have seen people use Redmere cables with these and have intermittent issues as the fuse drops the voltage as the Redmere scavenges power above the spec of HDMI. If you have a Redmere cable on the output of the Mini, this is likely a contributing factor.

Also note Radiance 2XXX units have enough power for a Redmere cable on their output (at least the Redmere cables we tested).
Thanks Jim, this is news to me. Of course my black screen on startup problem started when I installed the new digital PJ and had to go from a simple 6ft HDMI cable on the Radiance Mini output to a smarter 35ft cable. I don't have a Redmere but I think my Planet Waves cable may have a similar circuit:

http://www.clrtec.com/index.php?rout...roduct_id=2124

Quote:
Special note regarding Planet Waves Long Length HDMI "E" Series 30ft., 35ft., 40ft., 45ft incorporating 4kx2k 18Gb/s chipset technology:



Planet Waves Long Length HDMI "E" series cables exceed all specifications for HDMI High Speed 1.4a spec. to deliver full HD 1080P picture and sound for cable lengths in excess of 25 feet. In addition these cables incorporate both Ethernet and Audio Return capabilities into the design ensuring they're ready for advances in HDMI technology.

Advanced cable design and construction is required to meet the demand of HDMI high speed data transfer over distance. In order to ensure correct signal transfer Planet Waves Long Length HDMIE cables incorporate an integrated circuit on the display end of the HDMI cable. This circuit enables our HDMI E Series cables to pass these data streams over distance while maintaining the HDMI signal integrity, clocking, and full data signal transfer.
I have a dumb cheap 25ft HDMI cable that I can try temporarily.

As I said in my earlier post, temperature does seem to be a factor. If the system is "warm" it works; if left off for an hour it fails. I suppose I could try leaving the Radiance ON to characterize further.

"This one goes to eleven." Martin Logan Descent-i subwoofer
AVfile is offline  
post #1400 of 1516 Old 06-13-2015, 01:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dsinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 320
^ I think you will find that most radiance owners leave them on and only put them in standby if they change a cable etc. Power draw is minimal.
dsinger is offline  
post #1401 of 1516 Old 06-14-2015, 10:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gordon Fraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: U.K.
Posts: 1,920
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 295
Surfdrifter: Menu 0 9 1 0 ON HANDSET will turn on Service Mode of scaler. That will allow you to access set up of any sub resolution menu tree without having to actually send a signal of that resolution to the scaler.
Surfdrifter likes this.

Convergent-AV
ISF, Home Theater Consultants and Distribution, U.K.
Gordon Fraser is offline  
post #1402 of 1516 Old 06-14-2015, 11:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Surfdrifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
Surfdrifter: Menu 0 9 1 0 ON HANDSET will turn on Service Mode of scaler. That will allow you to access set up of any sub resolution menu tree without having to actually send a signal of that resolution to the scaler.

Thank you! I knew i was missing something!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Surfdrifter is offline  
post #1403 of 1516 Old 06-15-2015, 05:56 PM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 1137
AVfile:
So thePlanet Wave cable you reference uses Redmere technology (or equivalent), and should not be used with the RadianceMini/XS/XD/XE. And allow me to repeat that Redmere can be used with the 2XXX units, and the 4k Radiance Pro (in Beta).

You can find a good passive HDMI cable, or use a passive cable plus HDMI extender (such as our VidExt), or HDBaseT, or an externally powered fiber extender.

All:
You can select Service Mode in the "Other" menu. There is also a permanent Service Mode. If you are doing your own setup you can select this mode and then do a Save. Then you will always be in Service Mode for when you do things requiring Service Mode to be active.

All:
We do recommend turning the Radiance units off between use. With good HDMI cables this should not pose any issues unless other devices have HDMI power on order issues. In this case leaving the Radiance ON may make everything work better.
AVfile likes this.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
post #1404 of 1516 Old 07-24-2015, 06:30 AM
Senior Member
 
smuggymba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 22
quick question - When we use the Lumagen to control the aspect ratio change from 16:9 to 2.35:1 using the fixed zoom menhod (PJ doesn't have lens menory), does it lead to a lower picture quality?

Does this mean I'm watching TV at the regular resolution but the movie resolution could have been better (using manual zoom on PJ or an A-Lens?)

I have a 2.35 screen.
smuggymba is offline  
post #1405 of 1516 Old 07-24-2015, 02:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,088
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
quick question - When we use the Lumagen to control the aspect ratio change from 16:9 to 2.35:1 using the fixed zoom menhod (PJ doesn't have lens menory), does it lead to a lower picture quality?

Does this mean I'm watching TV at the regular resolution but the movie resolution could have been better (using manual zoom on PJ or an A-Lens?)

I have a 2.35 screen.
With the fixed zoom method you zoom your projected image to cover the width of the 2.35:1 screen and thus have unused pixels above and below. When watching a 2.35:1 movie you are using the full resolution of the projector (1920x810) but when using the Lumagen to view 16:9 material you will only use 1440x810 pixels for the 1920x1080 image and thus there is some degradation. While you can optionally stretch the image to fill the 1920x810 pixels of the 2.35:1 screen, the image will still be degraded; if using a linear stretch people will look short and fat, if using non-linear stretch (NLS) then there are other artifacts when the image pans. For casual TV content (non-stretched) I didn't find the resolution loss too distracting but it was noticeable as I sit 2.4x screen heights away; I found this mode mostly useful for the 16:9 menus of a Bluray when my projector was already zoomed for 2.35:1.
AVfile likes this.
jjcook is offline  
post #1406 of 1516 Old 10-19-2015, 04:16 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 825
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 116
does the mini have a pass-through setting that forwards the video signal untouched? if so, can the "mask" setting be applied to it, i.e. can the mini pass video untouched, without any sort of processing, yet still be capable of applying the "mask" feature?
aeneas01 is offline  
post #1407 of 1516 Old 10-19-2015, 09:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gordon Fraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: U.K.
Posts: 1,920
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 295
No lumagen video processors have a pass through feature. You can set the unit to do no scaling and to output the same signal it has coming in and you can apply masking to that though....which should prtty much do what you are after i'd think
giogt600 likes this.

Convergent-AV
ISF, Home Theater Consultants and Distribution, U.K.
Gordon Fraser is offline  
post #1408 of 1516 Old 10-19-2015, 02:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 825
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
No lumagen video processors have a pass through feature. You can set the unit to do no scaling and to output the same signal it has coming in and you can apply masking to that though....which should prtty much do what you are after i'd think
if the unit doesn't have pass through but, s you mention, it does allow no scaling, couldn't i also set the other settings/options to 0 or off which would in effect make it pass through? or are certain settings/options automatically applied (and can't be set to 0 or off), such as deinterlacing?

also, what is lumagen referring to here in the 3d manual?

-------------------

Input Masking The masking command allows you to cover up the sides of the video source. It is different then cropping in that the video is not stretched to fill the screen. It can be useful for pass-through modes where you do not wish the Radiance to scale the picture if there is some video noise on top/bottom/side of the picture that you want to cover up. Another situation may be that you wish to cover up and change the gray level of the black bars added by a video source, surrounding a letterboxed image.

------------------
aeneas01 is offline  
post #1409 of 1516 Old 10-19-2015, 10:51 PM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,511
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 1137
aeneas01:

In the quote you reference, pass-through is used loosely to mean "no scaling" and having enhancements set to "off."

If the image is close to the correct size, but has something you do not want to see (e.g. noise caused by the lines of "Closed Caption" above the active video), rather than scaling the image to make that portion "off screen," you can instead mask that portion so that the image is not scaled.

As we discussed, Game Mode with the input and output resolution matching so that there is no scaling, is close to a pass-through mode, but not exactly.

If the source is interlaced, the Radiance will always deinterlace it - unless you are in Game mode which is NOT recommended for interlaced sources.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
post #1410 of 1516 Old 10-24-2015, 04:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 825
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
aeneas01:

In the quote you reference, pass-through is used loosely to mean "no scaling" and having enhancements set to "off."

If the image is close to the correct size, but has something you do not want to see (e.g. noise caused by the lines of "Closed Caption" above the active video), rather than scaling the image to make that portion "off screen," you can instead mask that portion so that the image is not scaled.

As we discussed, Game Mode with the input and output resolution matching so that there is no scaling, is close to a pass-through mode, but not exactly.

If the source is interlaced, the Radiance will always deinterlace it - unless you are in Game mode which is NOT recommended for interlaced sources.
thanks jim....

btw i just want to say that i'm lovin' the mini so far, albeit i haven't had much time to delve into the bowels of the unit, but i have had a chance to play with it some...

the primary reason i picked it up was because of its 2.35 / nls (tip 16) capability, which imo is outstanding after some tweaking, couldn't be happier with the results... i looked long and hard for this sort of feature after determining that i didn't want to go the anamorphic lens route, for several reasons, but primarily because my projector is mounted about 20' high which would make manually shifting the lens to and fro next to impossible, and i didn't want to install a mechanized system...

anyway i realize that i won't be able to take full advantage of my projector's 1920 x 1080 rez, and that 16:9, 1.85, etc. material shrunk and stretched to fit a 2.35 isn't for everyone, but for my application, a commercial installation (restaurant) using a 61" x 144" screen, it's exactly what he doctor ordered..

i'm still amazed at how great live sporting events in hd look using the mini, when shrunk and stretched to fill a 2.35 screen using nls, the athletes aren't short and squat as would be expected, not at the main focal point, and scores, stats, etc. that are usually shown at the top and bottom of the screen aren't cropped, all of the info is there, the visual experience is spectacular really... and old classics formatted in 16:9, 1:85, 1.66, 1.75 etc. (rear window, north by northwest, breakfast at tiffany's, etc.) look equally great shrunk and stretched to fill the 2.35 screen using nls, i love it, for my particular application...

in fact i kind of feel like the character in woody allen's hannah and her sisters with the mini, the character who looks to buy art from a hysterically frustrated artist - the artist asks the buyer what he's looking for and the buyer responds that it doesn't matter, just wants big, wants to see the artist's largest paintings, the bigger the better, whatever he has, just as long as it's big, to which the artist finally explodes "i don't sell my work by the yard!", ha ha...

btw i noticed earlier in the thread that at least one or two mini owners were (are?) having trouble setting up tip 16 - for the life of me i couldn't figure it out either, despite very clear documentation and a very straightforward process, in fact jim was kind enough to hold my hand and walk me through it through the process, even then i couldn't get it going... what i finally discovered was that i wasn't hitting "ok" twice after changes, just once and then backing out of the menu, so the tip 16 settings never took, doh!

speaking of jim, i can't believe how great lumagen's support is, emails are responded to immediately, someone always seems to answer the phone, and no problem ever seems to be too small as far as they're concerned, just tremendous. btw i read an old hi-fi review not too long ago in which the author griped about lumagen's menu tree, that it was too complicated, especially compared to dvdo's line of processors, which made the learning curve unnecessarily steep. i've owned both, dvdo (vp50) and now lumagen, and i don't think that's the case at all...

one last thing, i'm currently playing around with where to place the mini in my video chain, i noticed some owners are placing it before avrs and oppo iirc, rather than at the end of the chain... i would be very interested in knowing where folks have placed their minis in their chain, and why...
aeneas01 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Video Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off