Official Lumagen RadianceMini 3D thread. - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-24-2016, 01:19 AM
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I think lightIllusion do a free version of Lightspace. You could get an i1DisplayPro probe and start playing with that in order to learn. Then, when you are happy you have an understanding you can pay to upgrade it to do the LUT creation that wil use the power of the Lumagen the best.

I thin kit unlikely that turning game mode on and off is what caused the problem to go away. The MENU XXXX shortcut and going in and doing Game mode on and off are the same thing, just different ways of doing it.

Is it the same content you are watching that showed the problems previously?
Next time it appears (if it does) navigate to the Lumagen test patterns and go to the ones which are NOT labelled REFERENCE and when you get to the APL contrast 1 pattern press 4 on lumagen remote to go to the contrast 2 low APL pattern. See whether it is being displayed properly and report back your findings.

oh, and if you haven't done it already, Make sure you have cleared out all the settings ChadB will have put in the thing when he did last calibration with it. To do that press MENU 0 9 9 9 OK on remote then MENU>SAVE>SAVE>SAVE...if you do not save then it will revert back to it's last saved state every time you switch it back on.

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Gordon Fraser is offline

Old 03-24-2016, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh
Also, I used a lot of words to try and describe the problem and tried to describe it several different ways hoping someone would understand what I was trying to say because I've never seen anything like it.

Do you know what the problem is, technically? Does it have a name? I just want to make sure it's the same thing I'm seeing since I am not quite sure I ever explained it exactly right.
I found some photos of what my Radiance was doing. Does this look like the same problem?

Spoiler!
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Old 03-24-2016, 05:22 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ
I found some photos of what my Radiance was doing. Does this look like the same problem?

Spoiler!
Thanks for the examples. That really helps, actually.

With mine, it "only" affects the blacks. The rest of the picture is flawless.

If I imagine what yours was doing, applying it only to the blacks, then it is similar, but not exactly the same.

What mine is/was doing isn't quite so bad, even applying it only to the blacks.

Here's the best way I can explain it. Imagine what yours was doing in those pictures, but only applied to blacks.

Then also imagine the same thing yours was doing, to the blacks, but not to "all" of the blacks. If there was a black "box" on the screen, for instance, only the inner 2/3 of that box looked similar to what yours was doing. The outer third, the outline, was always clear and fine just like the rest of the colors.

Does this new description with the aid of your images help define any better what mine is doing intermittently?

Thanks,

--J
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Old 03-25-2016, 01:06 AM
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your issue sounds like something i've seen on my own plasma tv when i used a manufacturers auto calibrate feature and it did not do any adjustment of the 5% stimulus level. The native gamma of the display was around 1.8 and the auto calibrate, having not adjusted the low end, made the image look very weird and posterised but only in the low stimulus levels.

It could be, i guess, that you have not rest the CMS stuff from previous owner and the corrections for his display were being applied to your quite different display. This is just speculation. If you've done a complete reset and it's all ok then i'd just carry on

Gordon

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Old 03-30-2016, 02:45 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser
I think lightIllusion do a free version of Lightspace. You could get an i1DisplayPro probe and start playing with that in order to learn. Then, when you are happy you have an understanding you can pay to upgrade it to do the LUT creation that wil use the power of the Lumagen the best.
Thanks, Gordon. This sounds like a perfect plan and this way I won't waste money on a device that wouldn't also work with the Lumagen.

Quote:
I thin kit unlikely that turning game mode on and off is what caused the problem to go away. The MENU XXXX shortcut and going in and doing Game mode on and off are the same thing, just different ways of doing it.
I understand. Is there anything you can think of that would cause a problem such as I have described to be intermittent? I have tried to many different settings and made so many different changes, just exploring the capabilities of the Lumagen that I feel I must've accidentally "fixed" the problem or it is a hardware problem that is intermittent in nature. Is is possible that in shipping from TN to OH something got knocked loose and maybe that is what is causing the problem? Is there any chip or part inside the Lumagen that I might try reseating or looking at to make sure it didn't come loose?

Quote:
Is it the same content you are watching that showed the problems previously?
Next time it appears (if it does) navigate to the Lumagen test patterns and go to the ones which are NOT labelled REFERENCE and when you get to the APL contrast 1 pattern press 4 on lumagen remote to go to the contrast 2 low APL pattern. See whether it is being displayed properly and report back your findings.
It does seem to be the same content. When I first saw it, I was watching, "Air Crash Investigations" on DirecTV. This program airs on the NatGEO channel which is broadcast in 1080i.

Although the original problem I described (which was also the worst problem I've had with the Lumagen since I received it a few weeks ago) hasn't reappeared, just last night I was watching the new episode (for the first time) of the same program on the same channel and sure enough, there was a problem. It was a bit different, though.

This time, the blacks weren't affected, or if they were, they weren't affected any more than any other color. Instead, sometimes things got "blocky" during fast motion. It was almost as if when there was motion, half of the image kept moving along correctly while the other half was a frame or a few frames behind which created these blocky artifacts in half of the picture.

I haven't seen the problem on ANY 1080p sources. I have only seen a problem (although there have now been two different problems) on 1080i content for certain, and possibly on 720p content, but I'm still watching out for that, to be certain, now that I know what I'm looking for.

Quote:
oh, and if you haven't done it already, Make sure you have cleared out all the settings ChadB will have put in the thing when he did last calibration with it. To do that press MENU 0 9 9 9 OK on remote then MENU>SAVE>SAVE>SAVE...if you do not save then it will revert back to it's last saved state every time you switch it back on.
Thanks for the tip. I reset it first thing when I received it and I've reset it several times since, after messing around with some settings just to try to familiarize myself with the device.

I really don't know what to do at this point. I haven't spoken with COACH directly and feel I should probably do that next, but I don't really know what to say.

I cannot reproduce the first problem and now I see this second problem, but it's not as bad, is harder to describe, and it isn't happening on "all" content.

I don't want to put him out or cost him money, but at the same time, I don't want to pay for something that doesn't work right.

If only this were a consistent problem, I could take photos, it could be diagnosed, and Coach and I could work something out.

Thanks for your time and effort in assisting me with this.

It's much appreciated,

--J
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:52 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser
your issue sounds like something i've seen on my own plasma tv when i used a manufacturers auto calibrate feature and it did not do any adjustment of the 5% stimulus level. The native gamma of the display was around 1.8 and the auto calibrate, having not adjusted the low end, made the image look very weird and posterised but only in the low stimulus levels.

It could be, i guess, that you have not rest the CMS stuff from previous owner and the corrections for his display were being applied to your quite different display. This is just speculation. If you've done a complete reset and it's all ok then i'd just carry on

Gordon
That's interesting, Gordon.

The first thing I did when I got the unit was look up how to do a reset and performed the reset.

I "might" not have saved it properly the first time I did it, as I've noticed since then a message appears saying things have changed since the last save, even when the thing that changed was the reset itself.

Even if I didn't save the original reset by accident, I never turned the unit off and back on.

In fact, it's been "on" the whole time. There isn't a physical power button and I haven't programmed the on/off sequence into my remote control program yet since I didn't know if I would be keeping it due to the problems I'm having.

Is it safe to leave it on 24/7/365 or should it be turned off via the remote control's "power" button between each use?

Thanks,

--J
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:34 AM
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no problem leaving it on all the time. i leave my units on all the time.

there is nothing internal that can be knocked or moved that can cause this. Everything on a mini is on one main pcb.

What you are describing on this channel is block noise compression artefacts. If stuff looks blocky, just on one channel or one programme, it's because the content is poor quality. Nothing wrong with the processor....nothing you can do about that except turn up the block noise reduction on the mini...but that'll make good progamming look worse while mitigating the crap quality of this channel...

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Old 03-30-2016, 04:45 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser
no problem leaving it on all the time. i leave my units on all the time.

there is nothing internal that can be knocked or moved that can cause this. Everything on a mini is on one main pcb.

What you are describing on this channel is block noise compression artefacts. If stuff looks blocky, just on one channel or one programme, it's because the content is poor quality. Nothing wrong with the processor....nothing you can do about that except turn up the block noise reduction on the mini...but that'll make good progamming look worse while mitigating the crap quality of this channel...
I LOVE my mini...I wish they didnt stop making it!! in fact I wish they would make another mini that supports 4k and hdr that was affordable...perhaps someday

Don
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:03 PM

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I love the "idea" of the mini and will have my 2.35 screen installed on Monday, so I can't wait to use the NLS feature, which is the reason I bought it.

I must admit I wish they were more affordable, too, though because I'd love to have Darbee built in and it would be nice to have a rack mountable version.

I've heard of a lot of people who, like me, have purchased a Lumagen just (or at least, mainly) for the NLS feature, so I bet there would be a market for an affordable stripped down version of the newer kind that will support 4k.

My concern now is that I cannot reproduce the problem. At the same time, I've learned the problem I had cannot be caused by some glitch in the software and must have been caused by faulty hardware.

I bought it used with no warranty and every day I wait to take some type of action, the less likely the seller is going to want to work with me.

However, I cannot and will not lie and say the problem still exists, so I'm really stuck here.

What is the right thing to do? What is the ethical thing to do?

I don't want to be stuck with this thing if it's going to die soon, but again, I can only wait so long before asking @COACH2369 to step up and assist, too.

I sure could use some guidance here.

If it's a physical problem (bad chip) why the heck won't it rear its ugly head again?

Thanks,

--J
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Old 06-03-2016, 01:46 PM
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Can someone explain the difference between the Fixed Zoom vs Variable Zoom method?

I'm reading the pdf but they look similar (zoom to fill the 2.35 screen so the image spills over) so obviously I'm missing something. Which method I should go with so I'm not losing resolution.

PS:I have a 2.35 screen and Sony HW55 and a Lumagen mini.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________

FIXED:
The zoom setting on a 16:9 projector is adjusted so that the image fills the width of a 2.35 screen. The non-active image spills over the top and bottom of the screen.

The projector zoom is fixed at this setting. If you are using a 1080p projector, 1080p 2.35 letterboxed video sources are not scaled. i.e. When you play a Bluray 2.35 movie, the Radiance scalier is
turned off and the image is displayed at a 1:1 ratio. The 4:3 and 16:9 images are scaled down to fit inside the height of the screen.

This is referred to as a “constant image height” system.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________

VARIABLE:

The lens zoom setting, on a 16:9 projector, is adjusted to display a 16:9 image or a 2.35 image, on a 2.35 screen.

This is referred to as a “constant image height” system.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba
Can someone explain the difference between the Fixed Zoom vs Variable Zoom method?

PS:I have a 2.35 screen and Sony HW55 and a Lumagen
In the fixed configuration, the lens on your Sony is always left alone. You zoom the projector once so it fills the width of the screen; when watching 2.35 content you see full resolution of 1920x810 but for 16:9 images using the scaler the resolution is only 1440x810.

For the variable zoom method, you would zoom your projector down for 16:9 so you can use the full 1920x1080 and re-zoom for 2.35 to utilize 1920x810. As your Sony does not have lens memory this would be a manual process.
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook
In the fixed configuration, the lens on your Sony is always left alone. You zoom the projector once so it fills the width of the screen; when watching 2.35 content you see full resolution of 1920x810 but for 16:9 images using the scaler the resolution is only 1440x810.

For the variable zoom method, you would zoom your projector down for 16:9 so you can use the full 1920x1080 and re-zoom for 2.35 to utilize 1920x810. As your Sony does not have lens memory this would be a manual process.
Thx jjcook.

I'll try to set the configuration that way. So, it seems this is just a 1000 dollar switch to hop between aspect ratios. Before I bought it, I was hearing about all sorts of features that this device has but the calibrator didn't use anything (said not required at all). In hindsight, I should've spend this money on a better PJ.

What do others use it for other than the aspect switching feature? I understand for older devices it helps with color/grayscale tuning but what does it do for newer PJ's/TV's?
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba
Thx jjcook.

I'll try to set the configuration that way. So, it seems this is just a 1000 dollar switch to hop between aspect ratios. Before I bought it, I was hearing about all sorts of features that this device has but the calibrator didn't use anything (said not required at all). In hindsight, I should've spend this money on a better PJ.

What do others use it for other than the aspect switching feature? I understand for older devices it helps with color/grayscale tuning but what does it do for newer PJ's/TV's?

If your calibrator did not use any of the features in the mini with your projector he should try a different job. The mini3D has 21 point gamma and 125 point LUT BASED colour calibration tools that are way beyond what is in your projector. Using those tools properly he would have been able to get you a more accurate image that was visibly superior for SD and HD sources fed through the mini as well as allowing you the instant aspect ratio control. Also, the upscaing in the mini is superior to that in any source or dvd player or the projector so if you had any SD content and those sources were optimally set up you would again get superior image quality.

I suspect the person you got in did not use the Lumagen because he had little or no experience of the thing or did not have suitable software or hardware tools to do a decent job with it.

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Old 08-31-2016, 01:28 PM

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I'm loving the Mini 3D so far. The scaling is great and really improves the picture quality. Best used item I've bought in awhile even though it's not the latest and greatest. But I have a question.

I have a 2.35 inch screen for my projector and a fixed anamorphic lens. I zoom the image so the majority of the pincushion caused by the lens is absorbed by the frame. I only use one configuration for the Lumagen that for the most part (see below) works well with all my sources. I haven't setup virtual inputs etc because prior to this I had no need to.

To regain the portion of the image lost to my frame I shrink the image by 1.5% on all four sides. This works perfectly with wide-screen films but 1.85 films have a large black strip where the pincushion is noticeable at the top and bottom. I created another style option with only a .5% shrink to address this. Works great.

Am I correct in assuming that the Lumagen can't automatically detect the difference between a 2.35 1080p/24 signal and 1.85 1080p/24 signal and I'll have to use the memory function to easily change between the styles? If so that's easily done but I wonder if I'm missing something obvious.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56
Am I correct in assuming that the Lumagen can't automatically detect the difference between a 2.35 1080p/24 signal and 1.85 1080p/24 signal and I'll have to use the memory function to easily change between the styles? If so that's easily done but I wonder if I'm missing something obvious.
Only the Radiance 2xxx and Pro units support auto-aspect detection.

While I haven't played with it extensively on my 2143 some content will briefly fool it causing jarring brief switching of modes (a longer delay before auto-switch would resolve this but I'm sure it's low priority feature add vs their Pro beta software development). The method I plan to use is via rs232 to disable auto-detect except when i command it via 1-stroke remote button to auto-detect the current aspect.

I also wish via RS232 that it reported the exact aspect ratio (e.g. 2.0, 2.76) not just the closest of 1.78,1.85,2.35,2.4 -- for use with my future 4-way masking system.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:59 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook
Only the Radiance 2xxx and Pro units support auto-aspect detection.

While I haven't played with it extensively on my 2143 some content will briefly fool it causing jarring brief switching of modes (a longer delay before auto-switch would resolve this but I'm sure it's low priority feature add vs their Pro beta software development). The method I plan to use is via rs232 to disable auto-detect except when i command it via 1-stroke remote button to auto-detect the current aspect.

I also wish via RS232 that it reported the exact aspect ratio (e.g. 2.0, 2.76) not just the closest of 1.78,1.85,2.35,2.4 -- for use with my future 4-way masking system.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:11 PM
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I have had a semi-recurring issue. It seems that under the right circumstances the Menu button for my Apple TV brings us the menu on my Mini.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them?

Kevin
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:53 PM

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Question for the experts.

I have a movable anamorphic lens. I followed the tech tip to set up variable output aspect based upon input aspect. 2.35 and 2.4 are set to output 2.35...others to 1.78.

I would like the option to watch 16x9 in the proper aspect with the lens in place if I get too lazy to move it (the sled is manual). The default 4:3 no zoom button gets close but it still compresses the image slightly. Is there any way to customize it?
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:38 PM

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Will the mini do a better job than my Panasonic st60 plasma , or better than the marantz 8802
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesto719
Will the mini do a better job than my Panasonic st60 plasma , or better than the marantz 8802
It has superior scaling and calibration facility than either...so i'd say...yes.

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Old 03-25-2017, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp
sanderdvd:
First let me say I am not an expert on the Infitec system. So while I think the following is correct I might not have a handle on all aspects of the Infitec calibration.

The Infitec splitter, in conjunction with the Infitec color filters in the projectors, assuming it is like Dolby, splits the left and right images by doing color filtering so that when wearing the glasses the left eye sees one set of three bands, and the right eye sees a different set of three bands of color. The brain is very good at merging these into a single 3D image.

Because of this you need to calibrate each projector without the Infitec splitter in the loop, and the special filter in the Projector out of the light path (I am assuming the Infitec filter in the projector is optical).

Both projectors should be calibrated accurately WITHOUT the Infinitec splitter, or Infitec color filter. To do this I recommend at least a pair of Radiance 2020 (9x9x9 3D LUT) units, and you might even spring for a pair of Radiance 2123 (17x17x17 3D LUT), making sure the light output for white is as nearly the same in the two projectors as possible, and of course the black level, Gamma, Grayscale and 3D LUT are calibrated as accurately as possible.

For normal use the Radiance would go after the Infitec splitter in front of each projector. So for calibration you would only need to make sure the color filter in teh projectors is out of the light path.

This approach should give you a very accurate colorimetry for both 2D and 3D.
But my understanding is that the filters automatically move into the light path when Cinema Mode is engaged on Epson projectors. Is there some way to select Cinema Mode without the filters engaging? Or is there soneway to calibrate in natural mode where the filter never comes into play and then use those numbers for Cinema Mode?
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd
thanks for your reply but this will simply not work at all. The Infitec filters (which are hardware build-in so removing them is not possible anyway ) have a very big impact on both the Greyscale and Colors. Even if I COULD calibrate it without the filters it will make no sense to do this. The filters will just completely whipe out the calibration that you did. There is one thing I m 300% sure about: the calibration needs to be done WITH the filters......

Were these the Infitec EX filters introduced in 2011 or the old Infitec system? The new EX filters don't have this problem.
jaychatbonneau is offline
Old 03-25-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer
Thanks for posting the Chromapure measurement information. Were these measurements taken from behind the glasses as well? What you've posted is exactly what I expected to see - gamma is all messed up (2.74 at 50%) and green and blue are all over the place in the CMS measurements.

The CMS in your projector is likely the standard 6 point one where you get to set a specific point for each color and that's it. It's the same type as in my Panasonic projectors and most other CMS consumer displays. The Mini3D can help here in introducing 125 points of CMS and other Lumagen models offer more than that. The question is though - can these extra points in an external CMS get you a decent REC.709 output with the color altering glasses and filters in place?

In my testing with the Omega filters, glasses and Mini3D the answer to this was a no. The linearity is taken so far out of spec - relative to REC.709 which is what you are calibrating to - that it can't be corrected with the range of correction the external CMS has.

I know with the Dolby cinema box that it's supposed to be doing color correcting before the signal reaches the projectors. Presumably there is a nice workflow as well from Dolby on how to calibrate each projector to get good results. That Infitec splitter looks like a regular GeoBox to me. Have you measured your projectors output with the infitec splitter installed\removed from the chain to see if it's even doing anything to alter the video signal? It might just be splitting the HDMI output to left\right like a normal GeoBox and the only color altering might be at the filters themselves!
That is exactly how consumer Infitec products work. The filters and the glasses do all the color shifting.
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Old 04-01-2017, 01:11 PM

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I just bought a brand new mini off ebay that was unused ,and I am having a hard time making any connections to do firmware .i accidently threw away the box that had the cables in the box, so I bought some null cables to compensate but nothing,is there something in the lumagen that I need to engage to get the computer to read the lumagen?

SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND.
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Old 04-01-2017, 01:29 PM
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^ on Lumagen.com there are tech tips.

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Old 04-01-2017, 03:57 PM

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Originally Posted by AVfile
^ on Lumagen.com there are tech tips.
I have tried a few but I just can't get to seem to ge the lumagen to talk to the computer . Also it looks like the lumagen is still on its first beta software
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Old 04-01-2017, 03:58 PM

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Originally Posted by AVfile
^ on Lumagen.com there are tech tips.
Does lumagen have a on switch for the rs 232 connection , or does it stay on always
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Old 04-01-2017, 04:11 PM

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Originally Posted by nesto719
Does lumagen have a on switch for the rs 232 connection , or does it stay on always
i'd just contact lumagen, they are absolutely awesome when it comes to product support, even for their legacy equipment, and they typically get back to you very fast, honestly i can't say enough about the support i've received from lumagen in the past, especially jim peterson ([email protected])... drop him an email with your questions, or send an email asking for his phone number if you feel you can better resolve your issue over the phone... wish i could be of further help, but my previously owned mini came with the latest firmware already installed....
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Old 04-01-2017, 04:49 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeneas01
i'd just contact lumagen, they are absolutely awesome when it comes to product support, even for their legacy equipment, and they typically get back to you very fast, honestly i can't say enough about the support i've received from lumagen in the past, especially jim peterson ([email protected])... drop him an email with your questions, or send an email asking for his phone number if you feel you can better resolve your issue over the phone... wish i could be of further help, but my previously owned mini came with the latest firmware already installed....
Thank you I appreciate the help
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesto719
Does lumagen have a on switch for the rs 232 connection , or does it stay on always

There might be a setup option but I can't remember. To check I would go into the setup menus and look around or check the user manual which you could download.

"This one goes to eleven." Martin Logan Descent-i subwoofer
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