Darbee vision darblet - Page 327 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9781 of 10204 Old 01-29-2018, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
Sounds like it is a much cleaner way to increase the sharpness, I did notice distortion when doing it through VLC. So basically, I should just buy the dang thing
I'd buy it. Tremendous bang for the buck. It doesn't actually do sharpness enhancement. It does a localized contrast enhancement that looks sharper. It really is an amazing process.
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post #9782 of 10204 Old 01-29-2018, 11:56 AM
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Sounds like it is a much cleaner way to increase the sharpness, I did notice distortion when doing it through VLC. So basically, I should just buy the dang thing
Keep in mind that the current Darbee Vision technology is somewhat dated, and does not support UHD/HDR displays. If you have any plans to go with 4K, you may be better off waiting for a 4K-compatible Darblet when (and if) it ever is released.
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post #9783 of 10204 Old 01-29-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
I use my laptop as my HTPC going to an Epson 2150, can anyone tell me if getting a Darbee would make any difference than just using VLC's calibration settings? I messed with VLC's settings last night, and from what I can tell the calibration settings do the same thing the Darbee does.

I'm also planning on getting a PS4 soon, which of course negates being able to use VLC's settings. Would getting a Darbee be worth it for the PS4 alone? Thanks!
I use the Darbee on my Epson 5030 to display a picture on a 100 inch screen and it does a fantastic job of making the picture look clearer and sharp. I tried to use the Epson's Super Resolution but found it caused artifacts in the picture. The Darbee is a much cleaner solution.
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post #9784 of 10204 Old 01-29-2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
I use my laptop as my HTPC going to an Epson 2150, can anyone tell me if getting a Darbee would make any difference than just using VLC's calibration settings? I messed with VLC's settings last night, and from what I can tell the calibration settings do the same thing the Darbee does.

I'm also planning on getting a PS4 soon, which of course negates being able to use VLC's settings. Would getting a Darbee be worth it for the PS4 alone? Thanks!
I don't get any image signal from my laptop on my projector when the Darbee is in the middle. Maybe it depends on the laptop, its HDMI implementation, it s OS (mine is Windows 10 Pro), etc.. All I can say now is that in my case, it doesn't work at all.

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post #9785 of 10204 Old 01-30-2018, 06:10 AM
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Keep in mind that the current Darbee Vision technology is somewhat dated, and does not support UHD/HDR displays. If you have any plans to go with 4K, you may be better off waiting for a 4K-compatible Darblet when (and if) it ever is released.


With the emerging / changing HDR standards I’m guessing a 4k Darblet was put on hold, as it’s algorithms most likely are affected by the differences in HDR stds. If one ever comes to release I’d look at it.


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post #9786 of 10204 Old 01-30-2018, 09:53 AM
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With the emerging / changing HDR standards I’m guessing a 4k Darblet was put on hold, as it’s algorithms most likely are affected by the differences in HDR stds. If one ever comes to release I’d look at it.


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Oddly enough CES 2017 had the 4k darbee in action. But NOTHING to be said about release date. I play a decent amount of games and halo and destiny look better at 1080 with darbee "filter" vs their 4k upgrades. Im running it on my xbox X to a 65" Samsung LED 4k. I like the 100" my epson puts out more so s elling the tv. And 4k was at a viewing distance of 8-9ft now im at 13 wit the 100"

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post #9787 of 10204 Old 01-30-2018, 09:56 AM
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Thank you. I think I just blew $150. I have the Yamaha Aventage RX-3050 AV Receiver and the RX-A3010 AV Receiver and the oppo 93 which are running at 1080p. I have the Samsung UBD K8500 4K player also. I have the Optoma HD26 projector which is also 1080p. I guess I will just pull it out of the loop and box it up and see if they will let me return it.
Id run it right before your projector. Truly not a waste IMO

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post #9788 of 10204 Old 01-30-2018, 11:39 AM
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I just purchased it this morning from B&H, only $124 then $10 off when you use android pay on your mobile so it only cost me $114 w/ free shipping and no tax. Had to pull the trigger on that! Excited to try it out
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post #9789 of 10204 Old 01-30-2018, 12:20 PM
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I just purchased it this morning from B&H, only $124 then $10 off when you use android pay on your mobile so it only cost me $114 w/ free shipping and no tax. Had to pull the trigger on that! Excited to try it out
I'm sure you'll love it, especially for that price. Oddly enough you notice it most when you turn it off. It all goes blurry!
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post #9790 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 08:50 AM
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Oddly enough CES 2017 had the 4k darbee in action. But NOTHING to be said about release date. k
Your comment got me interested. As a subscriber to Widescreen Review, which publishes in-depth articles on shows like CES and Cedia, I accessed the two issues with these reviews. Neither WSR Feb 2017 (CES Review) or WSR Nov 2017 (Cedia Review) had any announcement of a stand-alone Darbee Vision that supports 4K. In the CES review, I found only this reference in the Oppo section: "There is no information released by OPPO (that I could find) that discusses UHD disc player models with DVP, so adding these models later is still speculation. [Editor’s note: OPPO does plan DVP version introductions in the CEDIA Expo September 2017 timeframe.] The Cedia review makes no mention of Darbee Vision at all.

Where did you get your information? Can you provide a link?
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post #9791 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 08:55 AM
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Your comment got me interested. As a subscriber to Widescreen Review, which publishes in-depth articles on shows like CES and Cedia, I accessed the two issues with these reviews. Neither WSR Feb 2017 (CES Review) or WSR Nov 2017 (Cedia Review) had any announcement of a stand-alone Darbee Vision that supports 4K. In the CES review, I found only this reference in the Oppo section: "There is no information released by OPPO (that I could find) that discusses UHD disc player models with DVP, so adding these models later is still speculation. [Editor’s note: OPPO does plan DVP version introductions in the CEDIA Expo September 2017 timeframe.] The Cedia review makes no mention of Darbee Vision at all.

Where did you get your information? Can you provide a link?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twi...eek-2016-61878

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post #9792 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 08:58 AM
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I fear we may never see a 4K compatible Darbee. We are now heavily into this format, with 8K around the corner. If they were able, or going, to launch something, I think we would have seen it by now. Too bad because I really like my Darblet.
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post #9793 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 09:22 AM
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Well, that link talks about Darbee’s plans to demonstrate 4K technology at a show back in 2016. And it also claims that a product would be released later in the year (2016). Clearly nothing happened in 2016 or 2017.
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post #9794 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 09:33 AM
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Well, that link talks about Darbee’s plans to demonstrate 4K technology at a show back in 2016. And it also claims that a product would be released later in the year (2016). Clearly nothing happened in 2016 or 2017.
True. I thought I'd seen a video of it somewhere. Also was not aware that their original founder passed away which is partly why they have inventory issues and aren't getting a 4k one out anytime soon.

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post #9795 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Your comment got me interested. As a subscriber to Widescreen Review, which publishes in-depth articles on shows like CES and Cedia, I accessed the two issues with these reviews. Neither WSR Feb 2017 (CES Review) or WSR Nov 2017 (Cedia Review) had any announcement of a stand-alone Darbee Vision that supports 4K. In the CES review, I found only this reference in the Oppo section: "There is no information released by OPPO (that I could find) that discusses UHD disc player models with DVP, so adding these models later is still speculation. [Editor’s note: OPPO does plan DVP version introductions in the CEDIA Expo September 2017 timeframe.] The Cedia review makes no mention of Darbee Vision at all.

Where did you get your information? Can you provide a link?
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I fear we may never see a 4K compatible Darbee. We are now heavily into this format, with 8K around the corner. If they were able, or going, to launch something, I think we would have seen it by now. Too bad because I really like my Darblet.
In some of my previous posts in this thread (do a search with my username and you'll find them) I've provided links to show that they did indeed have working 4K versions of DVP (some in CE TV models) but very little info beyond that. Mostly I feel it was a resolution only version. As in just a more powerful processor to handle more pixels.

But, I've come to consider that there are 5 major factors that are hindering the release of 4K Darbee. Or, will flat out prevent it from ever occurring. Of which, the latter I'm suspecting will prevail as I'll get into. So let's take a look at the state of affairs and I welcome other's input as well.

HDMI 2.1: Let's start with the obvious. HDMI 2.1 has been known about and expected for some time. However, in it's infancy, it will be extremely cost prohibitive to put into products that originally sold for <$300. The original Darbee was somewhat future proof for 1080p since there really wasn't that much change for a while when it was introduced in the early-mid 2012 time-frame. But now with the ever changing specs of HDMI and adding features, it's a lot more complicated and a mess. And it'll be at least a year to go through the testing stages and wait for price of the chips to come down. If they want to try and mak it somewhat future proof again, they'll have to make it HDMI 2.1 compatible.

HDR: Somewhat tied to HDMI, it's a mess. And now there's multiple types of HDR in the wild or planned for. To make one unit capable of handling all that will take some time to and R&D. And, lots of extra processing power, which means a higher cost. Also, they'll need actual content to test on. That means with HDR10+ and HLG and whatever else that's coming, it will be sometime before that happens. Now they could release a DV/HDR10 version now and then FW upgrade it later, but then just then adds even more cost and complexity to the unit adding software to handle internet connections and an ethernet port or Wi-Fi chip.

IP: It's been talked about for some time that they wanted to get away from OEM production and having a stand-alone unit. Intellectual Property rights and licensing the tech is a lucrative business model. Let someone else who has the resources and experience (ie the bigger players like Samsung) do some of the leg work to get it to play nicely with HDMI, add those internet connections, have a powerful processor and bring the costs down via economies of scale. The problem is, since Darbee first came out nearly 6 years ago, many of those bigger players saw what extra processing and image enhancement can do and started to work on their own versions. Look at the Sony X1E processor as a prime example. Maybe you'll see some other not so big but still relevant players, like Oppo or Optoma again, come in a license it. But I'm doubtful there. And here's why.

Perceived Benefit: Is there any actual improvement that can be made using their technology to the 4K format? 4K isn't just pixels, there's higher bit-depth, WCG, HDR, etc. These are some substantial improvements. Will Darbee be able to further improve upon them? A tangible and visible effect that's not just on paper? And not only that, what it the cost/benefit of that improvement? This brings me to the money side of things.

Cash Flow/Income: I can guarantee sales of Darbee products have been dwindling commensurate with the growth of 4K. This means they have less money to pump into R&D. One of the first signs of a failing business is when money stops being spent on R&D. Many examples of this in the CE arena. With less capital available to be spent on developing a 4K version, the odds decrease drastically that we'll ever see one, at least for the home user.

Taking all that into account, I'm starting to believe we'll never see a 4K version, as I said before, for the home user. Maybe they do have the finances and time to continue to develop it. But if so, it seems like it likely would initially cost much more than what it went for with the 1080p version for a OEM stand alone unit. My guess is somewhere north of $500 when you factor in what it will take to bring to market. That makes it more of a commercial grade product. And perhaps they will shift this business model to the high-end niche, cinemas and post-production markets. If that's the case, maybe we could see the tech trickle down into the consumer market, but that would take 3-5 years on top of however long we still have to wait for it to be released to pro-market.

Or, maybe I'm wrong. Which I hope to be. I loved the Darblet and now have had to take it out of the chain as I've moved onto 4K. As always, time will tell.
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post #9796 of 10204 Old 01-31-2018, 12:50 PM
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There will never be a 4K Darbee. They have no reason to hide 4K R&D if it is happening, which it isn't. The best thing they could do is sell their IP to another processing company.
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post #9797 of 10204 Old 02-01-2018, 08:11 PM
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That was a pre CES press release from 2016 CES. Darbee was a no show at that event.

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Can anyone give me a little guidance, I thought that the audio pass-through in the darbee is supposed to be untouched? I can't get sound to come through at all using it on my Epson 2150. Picture looks GREAT, no way do I want to return this thing if I can get it to work. I've tried moving, flipping and swapping HDMI cables. Tried both my PS4 and my laptop and sound just will not come through. The port on the 2150 is an AUX audio out cable that goes to my sound system. Anyone have any idea why it may not be working?
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post #9799 of 10204 Old 02-06-2018, 11:27 AM
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But, I've come to consider that there are 5 major factors that are hindering the release of 4K Darbee. Or, will flat out prevent it from ever occurring. Of which, the latter I'm suspecting will prevail as I'll get into. So let's take a look at the state of affairs and I welcome other's input as well.

HDMI 2.1: Let's start with the obvious. HDMI 2.1 has been known about and expected for some time. However, in it's infancy, it will be extremely cost prohibitive to put into products that originally sold for <$300. The original Darbee was somewhat future proof for 1080p since there really wasn't that much change for a while when it was introduced in the early-mid 2012 time-frame. But now with the ever changing specs of HDMI and adding features, it's a lot more complicated and a mess. And it'll be at least a year to go through the testing stages and wait for price of the chips to come down. If they want to try and mak it somewhat future proof again, they'll have to make it HDMI 2.1 compatible.

HDR: Somewhat tied to HDMI, it's a mess. And now there's multiple types of HDR in the wild or planned for. To make one unit capable of handling all that will take some time to and R&D. And, lots of extra processing power, which means a higher cost. Also, they'll need actual content to test on. That means with HDR10+ and HLG and whatever else that's coming, it will be sometime before that happens. Now they could release a DV/HDR10 version now and then FW upgrade it later, but then just then adds even more cost and complexity to the unit adding software to handle internet connections and an ethernet port or Wi-Fi chip.

IP: It's been talked about for some time that they wanted to get away from OEM production and having a stand-alone unit. Intellectual Property rights and licensing the tech is a lucrative business model. Let someone else who has the resources and experience (ie the bigger players like Samsung) do some of the leg work to get it to play nicely with HDMI, add those internet connections, have a powerful processor and bring the costs down via economies of scale. The problem is, since Darbee first came out nearly 6 years ago, many of those bigger players saw what extra processing and image enhancement can do and started to work on their own versions. Look at the Sony X1E processor as a prime example. Maybe you'll see some other not so big but still relevant players, like Oppo or Optoma again, come in a license it. But I'm doubtful there. And here's why.

Perceived Benefit: Is there any actual improvement that can be made using their technology to the 4K format? 4K isn't just pixels, there's higher bit-depth, WCG, HDR, etc. These are some substantial improvements. Will Darbee be able to further improve upon them? A tangible and visible effect that's not just on paper? And not only that, what it the cost/benefit of that improvement? This brings me to the money side of things.

Cash Flow/Income: I can guarantee sales of Darbee products have been dwindling commensurate with the growth of 4K. This means they have less money to pump into R&D. One of the first signs of a failing business is when money stops being spent on R&D. Many examples of this in the CE arena. With less capital available to be spent on developing a 4K version, the odds decrease drastically that we'll ever see one, at least for the home user.

Taking all that into account, I'm starting to believe we'll never see a 4K version, as I said before, for the home user. Maybe they do have the finances and time to continue to develop it. But if so, it seems like it likely would initially cost much more than what it went for with the 1080p version for a OEM stand alone unit. My guess is somewhere north of $500 when you factor in what it will take to bring to market. That makes it more of a commercial grade product. And perhaps they will shift this business model to the high-end niche, cinemas and post-production markets. If that's the case, maybe we could see the tech trickle down into the consumer market, but that would take 3-5 years on top of however long we still have to wait for it to be released to pro-market.

Or, maybe I'm wrong. Which I hope to be. I loved the Darblet and now have had to take it out of the chain as I've moved onto 4K. As always, time will tell.
Excellent observations. I'm a little surprised after Oppo/Optoma embedded adoption did not leads to more OEM designs win and wider market share. Why is that you think?

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post #9800 of 10204 Old 02-06-2018, 01:02 PM
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Excellent observations. I'm a little surprised after Oppo/Optoma embedded adoption did not leads to more OEM designs win and wider market share. Why is that you think?
Well, like I talked about above in my post, a lot of the bigger companies have the resources to develop their own. It costs money to license the tech and why do that when you have a majority share of the market and it would cost a lot to put in all your products vs doing your own in house.

And I'm not saying they did this, but it's easier than ever to reverse engineer technology. So it's possible someone may have taken a peek under the hood of some competitors and got a jump start on their own version.

Players like Optoma and Oppo are still somewhat big names, but lack significant resources to commit to solely developing their own versions when they could put that resources elsewhere and license the tech and pay a small fee. It's all about hedging your bets in the business world.

But Darbee did have more than those two to license their stuff.

http://www.darbeevision.com/partners/

I imagine if they did get 4K HDR version working, the next round would have had a much larger partner base and would have expended their market share.
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post #9801 of 10204 Old 02-06-2018, 01:30 PM
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Well, like I talked about above in my post, a lot of the bigger companies have the resources to develop their own. It costs money to license the tech and why do that when you have a majority share of the market and it would cost a lot to put in all your products vs doing your own in house.

And I'm not saying they did this, but it's easier than ever to reverse engineer technology. So it's possible someone may have taken a peek under the hood of some competitors and got a jump start on their own version.

Players like Optoma and Oppo are still somewhat big names, but lack significant resources to commit to solely developing their own versions when they could put that resources elsewhere and license the tech and pay a small fee. It's all about hedging your bets in the business world.

But Darbee did have more than those two to license their stuff.

http://www.darbeevision.com/partners/

I imagine if they did get 4K HDR version working, the next round would have had a much larger partner base and would have expended their market share.
I agree, the 4K and all its goodness is the next step.

I thought they might have traverse same path as previous video silicon innovators by this point.

  • Genesis Microchip (with the FLI chipset – was Fajoudja/Genesis Microchip, STMicroelectronics completes acquisition of Genesis Microchip on January 25, 2008)
  • Sigma Designs (with the VXP chipset – was Gennum, Sigma Designs purchased the Image Processing group from Gennum on February 8, 2008)
  • Integrated Device Technology (with the HQV chipset and Teranex system products – was Silicon Optix, IDT purchased SO on October 21, 2008)
  • Silicon Image (with the VRS chipset and DVDO system products - was Anchor Bay Technologies, Silicon Image purchased ABT on February 10, 2011)

I hope they will be successful moving the implementation forward soon.

It'd be interesting to see unit shipped volume data between DarbeeEmbedded BDP vs non-DarbeeEmbedded BDP and the like for projectors. It would give us some idea regarding market pull for this capability.

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post #9802 of 10204 Old 02-07-2018, 03:15 PM
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I agree, the 4K and all its goodness is the next step.

I thought they might have traverse same path as previous video silicon innovators by this point.

  • Genesis Microchip (with the FLI chipset – was Fajoudja/Genesis Microchip, STMicroelectronics completes acquisition of Genesis Microchip on January 25, 2008)
  • Sigma Designs (with the VXP chipset – was Gennum, Sigma Designs purchased the Image Processing group from Gennum on February 8, 2008)
  • Integrated Device Technology (with the HQV chipset and Teranex system products – was Silicon Optix, IDT purchased SO on October 21, 2008)
  • Silicon Image (with the VRS chipset and DVDO system products - was Anchor Bay Technologies, Silicon Image purchased ABT on February 10, 2011)

I hope they will be successful moving the implementation forward soon.

It'd be interesting to see unit shipped volume data between DarbeeEmbedded BDP vs non-DarbeeEmbedded BDP and the like for projectors. It would give us some idea regarding market pull for this capability.
Just to chime in on this topic, someone in another thread mentioned Darbee posting on their FaceBook page about a new DVP product coming in 2018.

Here is the link (scroll down a little): https://www.facebook.com/DarbeeVision/

And here is a copy of their posting:
DarbeeVision Inc.

December 13, 2017 ·
@darb eeVision, we always like to see solid specifications, however with technical specs that are not friendly to understand, the consumer is likely to simply get more confused. Terms like #peak_luminance, #nits, #black_levels, #global_dimming, #local_dimming, #standard_color, #high_color_gamut, #standard_dynamic_range, #high_dynamic_range...how is a consumer supposed to sort out all the possible combinations and determine whether their purchase choice fits their needs, desires, interests. Fortunately, with #DARBEE_Visual_Presence (DVP), it is easy to understand. #DVP simply gives everything more depth, clarity and realism. DVP for #4K #UHD #HDR is coming in 2018, and it is going to prove that fidelity is not the endpoint of #image_quality!


So there is that but I too am a bit skeptical on anything.
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post #9803 of 10204 Old 02-07-2018, 04:52 PM
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Can anyone give me a little guidance, I thought that the audio pass-through in the darbee is supposed to be untouched? I can't get sound to come through at all using it on my Epson 2150. Picture looks GREAT, no way do I want to return this thing if I can get it to work. I've tried moving, flipping and swapping HDMI cables. Tried both my PS4 and my laptop and sound just will not come through. The port on the 2150 is an AUX audio out cable that goes to my sound system. Anyone have any idea why it may not be working?
I tested the Darbee on my regular Samsung flat screen and was able to get audio through that. Wonder why it isn't passing through to the projector ugh
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post #9804 of 10204 Old 02-07-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
I tested the Darbee on my regular Samsung flat screen and was able to get audio through that. Wonder why it isn't passing through to the projector ugh
Probably because the projector is more than likely extremely limited in the formats of digital audio that it can attempt to convert to its analog output jack. What audio are you sending with the video? is it more than 2 channel pcm? Is it multichannel or bitstream?
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post #9805 of 10204 Old 02-07-2018, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
I tested the Darbee on my regular Samsung flat screen and was able to get audio through that. Wonder why it isn't passing through to the projector ugh
I must be missing something. Why are you sending the signal to the projector, and then routing audio back to the sound system? Why isn’t the signal going to the AVR first (assuming you have an AVR), and then the video only to the projector? The problem isn’t the Darblet, it’s how the projector is routing the audio.
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post #9806 of 10204 Old 02-13-2018, 10:52 AM
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I must be missing something. Why are you sending the signal to the projector, and then routing audio back to the sound system? Why isn’t the signal going to the AVR first (assuming you have an AVR), and then the video only to the projector? The problem isn’t the Darblet, it’s how the projector is routing the audio.
Yea it is because there is no AVR. I didn't think I would need one by just adding a Darbee as the audio is "supposed" to pass through untouched.

It goes laptop (or PS4) > HDMI > Darbee > HDMI > projector. My sound system works fine from the audio out aux port without the Darbee plugged in, as soon as I add it, no sound just picture
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post #9807 of 10204 Old 02-13-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
Yea it is because there is no AVR. I didn't think I would need one by just adding a Darbee as the audio is "supposed" to pass through untouched.

It goes laptop (or PS4) > HDMI > Darbee > HDMI > projector. My sound system works fine from the audio out aux port without the Darbee plugged in, as soon as I add it, no sound just picture

May be you can try getting the audio output from the laptop to amp/speakers/etc. That case you remove some audio lag as a side benefit.

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post #9808 of 10204 Old 02-13-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
Yea it is because there is no AVR. I didn't think I would need one by just adding a Darbee as the audio is "supposed" to pass through untouched.

It goes laptop (or PS4) > HDMI > Darbee > HDMI > projector. My sound system works fine from the audio out aux port without the Darbee plugged in, as soon as I add it, no sound just picture

That should work, as long as it isn't a 4K signal.
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post #9809 of 10204 Old 02-13-2018, 05:29 PM
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May be you can try getting the audio output from the laptop to amp/speakers/etc. That case you remove some audio lag as a side benefit.
That does work of course because it's bypassing the Darbee. Just strange it doesn't work on my projector audio out aux but works with my samsung tv audio out aux. I guess I'll just do separate audio connections, really don't want to get rid of the Darbee it's pretty awesome!
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post #9810 of 10204 Old 02-13-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousfuria View Post
That does work of course because it's bypassing the Darbee. Just strange it doesn't work on my projector audio out aux but works with my samsung tv audio out aux. I guess I'll just do separate audio connections, really don't want to get rid of the Darbee it's pretty awesome!

Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Audio Path = Laptop -> audio out/headphones out to speakers inputs

Video Path = laptop HDMI -> Darbee ->project HDMI input

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