Darbee vision darblet - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1129Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1291 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 10:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Eden NY
Posts: 5,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


I'm very glad that I have glasses that alter the physical world from how I would perceive it if I viewed it as nature (the ultimate 'director') 'intends' with my unaided eyes.
Me Too!

---

Blu Ray does not have nearly the dynamic range capabilities that our eyes do. One of the best DSLR's measure 14.4 stops yet our eyes can see well beyond this. Same thing with video -- it is only capable of displaying a subset of colors and contrast ratios as compared to our eyes. It's not like this is a perfect medium with no room for improvement. If one wants to make Blu Ray the benchmark to which we should compare to then the state of the art is here and no further improvements can be had. Personally I don't think Blu Ray is quite that good and I believe it can be improved upon (I'm also quite sure the next generation of projectors will incrementally improve upon this years models).

Geof
Geof is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1292 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 10:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked: 458
Those things are limited by the display device, not by Blu-ray. And the same display device is going to show the signal whether or not it's been distorted by an "enhancement box".

David Mackenzie
Blu-ray Disc (and DVD) Compressionist/Author
US Correspondent & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
ISF Certified Calibrator (Level 2) / THX Certified Professional (Video Calibration Level 2)
lyris is offline  
post #1293 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 10:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Eden NY
Posts: 5,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

Those things are limited by the display device, not by Blu-ray. And the same display device is going to show the signal whether or not it's been distorted by an "enhancement box".
No, the whole capture chain is limited color pallet wise and dynamic range wise. All the enhancement box is doing is compensating for the way our vision intreprets what a less than 100% perfect capture and display chain are reproducing.

Geof
Geof is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1294 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 10:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked: 458
Again though, your reference for comparison is reality. It's not possible for a display device to recreate a "real" look, and films and shows are finished within that limitation.

And I find it a moot point, because reality doesn't have unsharp-mask artefacts around objects we focus on either.

David Mackenzie
Blu-ray Disc (and DVD) Compressionist/Author
US Correspondent & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
ISF Certified Calibrator (Level 2) / THX Certified Professional (Video Calibration Level 2)
lyris is offline  
post #1295 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Eden NY
Posts: 5,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 50
I would argue that it is not possible for a display device to recreate a "real" look with the current state of technology. It's improved immensely over the years and will continue to improve.

I think if you're seeing unsharp mask artifacts you have the Darbee turned up way too much. Have you seen one in person or are you basing your comments on the examples on the Darbee web site?

You must be against JVC's eshift as well since it's doing a lot of processing on the unaltered BD signal to create two subframes that generate a resultant image that's better than an un-eshifted image.

Geof
Geof is offline  
post #1296 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked: 458
Quote:
You must be against JVC's eshift as well since it's doing a lot of processing on the unaltered BD signal to create two subframes that generate a resultant image that's better than an un-eshifted image.
No, I'm not against that, but when I heard about it, I was wary of potential artefacts.

This is another example though of the difference between linear enhancement and selective enhancement - as I said earlier, the latter begins to infringe more on creative decisions more than technical issues.

David Mackenzie
Blu-ray Disc (and DVD) Compressionist/Author
US Correspondent & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
ISF Certified Calibrator (Level 2) / THX Certified Professional (Video Calibration Level 2)
lyris is offline  
post #1297 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:12 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Moderator
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 25,633
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1732 Post(s)
Liked: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

No, I'm not against that, but when I heard about it, I was wary of potential artefacts.
This is another example though of the difference between linear enhancement and selective enhancement - as I said earlier, the latter begins to infringe more on creative decisions more than technical issues.

Tell us about your demo experinece with the Darbee. Source components used, projector, screen size, darbee settings etc
rboster is online now  
post #1298 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:22 AM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

Tell us about your demo experinece with the Darbee. Source components used, projector, screen size, darbee settings etc

I think he understands what the Darblet does better than most and the processing involved, which i assume will be universal whether you have seen it or not.
bazlog is offline  
post #1299 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Geoff. Going off discussion, I purchased a Sony VPL-vw1000ES exactly because it raised the bar on making the sports I watch look real. I am often fooled into thinking I am there (although the beer in my HT is much better and much less expensive and I can smoke cigars). No other projector I have seen can fool me into thinking I have seen reality.
AV Science Sales 4 is offline  
post #1300 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:34 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Moderator
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 25,633
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1732 Post(s)
Liked: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

I think he understands what the Darblet does better than most and the processing involved, which i assume will be universal whether you have seen it or not.

I understand you are both from the same forum, but I was asking him if he demo'd the unit...
rboster is online now  
post #1301 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:37 AM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

I understand you are both from the same forum, but I was asking him if he demo'd the unit...

I can't see your point really you either know what it does to the PQ or you don't?
bazlog is offline  
post #1302 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:39 AM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Can you be a little clearer as to what you are saying rboster.smile.gif
bazlog is offline  
post #1303 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
giomania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,135
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 828 Post(s)
Liked: 629
I have the capability to utilize the Darblet for two displays, via an HDMI splitter, thanks to an my HDMI Distribution system. I have a JVC DLA-RS35 in my theater, and a Pioneer PDP-5020FD (9G Pioneer 50" Plasma) in my family room. My only concern (that comes to mind) is the complexity of cascading multiple HDMI switches when sending the signal to the family room.

For example, when using my Moxi DVR for cable (the primary source device for this room), it would pass through the following HDMI signal chain when going to the Plasma:

Moxi DVR
4x4 HDMI Matrix switch
Lumagen Radiance XS-3D
1x2 HDMI Splitter
3x1 HDMI Switch
45-Foot Standard Speed HDMI cable (Blue Jeans Cable BJC Series 1)
Denon AVR-3312 CI
Pioneer PDP-5020FD

Any input or thoughts would be welcome.

Mark

Lumagen Radiance Pro HDR Tone Mapping Guide: Click Here

Lumagen Radiance Pro Setup & Calibration Tips: Click Here

UHD-BD Backup & Playback Guidance Link
giomania is offline  
post #1304 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 12:21 PM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Anyway enough said be happy with your purchases just remember what it is your buying.smile.gif
bazlog is offline  
post #1305 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

Tell us about your demo experinece with the Darbee. Source components used, projector, screen size, darbee settings etc
Your suspicion that I haven't reviewed one is correct - I actually turned down the chance, because I have limited time, and it wouldn't go down well anyway. I discuss resolution processing with knowledge of what the unit is doing. Do you mean to say it's wildly different to the examples on the site when the severity is scaled down?

Granted this would be a better discussion if I had the unit here; but the principles remain. I haven't reviewed many of the other "enhancement" features on displays - nobody would say, "Try using Dynamic Contrast - you might like it" - it's besides the point.

If anyone DOES want to ship me one, I'd be happy to give some more specific thoughts - but ultimately we'd be having the same discussion.

David Mackenzie
Blu-ray Disc (and DVD) Compressionist/Author
US Correspondent & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
ISF Certified Calibrator (Level 2) / THX Certified Professional (Video Calibration Level 2)
lyris is offline  
post #1306 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,662
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 579 Post(s)
Liked: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Anyway enough said be happy with your purchases just remember what it is your buying.smile.gif

And if anyone forgets you will be here to remind them. biggrin.gif

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
kaotikr1 is online now  
post #1307 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:31 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Moderator
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 25,633
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1732 Post(s)
Liked: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

Your suspicion that I haven't reviewed one is correct - I actually turned down the chance, because I have limited time, and it wouldn't go down well anyway. I discuss resolution processing with knowledge of what the unit is doing. Do you mean to say it's wildly different to the examples on the site when the severity is scaled down?
Granted this would be a better discussion if I had the unit here; but the principles remain. I haven't reviewed many of the other "enhancement" features on displays - nobody would say, "Try using Dynamic Contrast - you might like it" - it's besides the point.
If anyone DOES want to ship me one, I'd be happy to give some more specific thoughts - but ultimately we'd be having the same discussion.

Fair enough. I think with any new and/or different process it's diffcult to draw conclusive results without personally using the product. But, I also understand that we are all limited in time and resources, so we have to pick and chose how to spend it.
rboster is online now  
post #1308 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: good old USA
Posts: 2,552
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

Your suspicion that I haven't reviewed one is correct - I actually turned down the chance, because I have limited time, and it wouldn't go down well anyway..... If anyone DOES want to ship me one, I'd be happy to give some more specific thoughts - but ultimately we'd be having the same discussion.

Doesn't seem to be any point in anyone shipping you a loaner since you say you wouldn't have the time and have your mind made up.

See ya. Dave

"The Blues ain't nothin' but a botheration on the mind." Otis Spann
Jive Turkey is offline  
post #1309 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:39 PM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

Fair enough. I think with any new and/or different process it's diffcult to draw conclusive results without personally using the product. But, I also understand that we are all limited in time and resources, so we have to pick and chose how to spend it.

Again you can know exactly what a product is doing or not from experience in the field.
bazlog is offline  
post #1310 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
42Plasmaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

No my friend i wont as the truth of it has been shown. Those who choose to ignore that be happy, those who like how things should look kudos to you.smile.gif
Since the "truth" has been told & explained in detail, I assume we won't be hearing the war drum from you when people start to get their units in the next few weeks and post their personal observations to discuss with other owners. smile.gif

2016
42Plasmaman is offline  
post #1311 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
John Ballentine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
Posts: 5,169
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Mark - these are shipping out from NY yes? Are they going out UPS ground or standard postal mail (USPS)? Wondering if mine may arrive Saturday. Looking forward to trying it out. May even get a 2nd one if works as I anticipate.

Ric - anxious to see what you think of the Darblet! (I'm on AVS waiting list too)
John Ballentine is offline  
post #1312 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:43 PM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Again you can know exactly what a product is doing or not from experience in the field.

It is a sharpening tool, no more no less accept that and buy it or do not, it really is up to you guys.
bazlog is offline  
post #1313 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Moderator
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 25,633
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1732 Post(s)
Liked: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

It is a sharpening tool, no more no less accept that and buy it or do not, it really is up to you guys.

Enough (I'm not asking). You are like a dog chasing his tail...using your own quotes to continue to find a reason to post.
tkbryant likes this.
rboster is online now  
post #1314 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 01:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
42Plasmaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

It is a sharpening tool, no more no less accept that and buy it or do not, it really is up to you guys.
I believe that's all the majority, if not all here in this thread are looking to obtain.
Sharpening without ringing or artifacts.

2016
42Plasmaman is offline  
post #1315 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 02:19 PM
 
bazlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne England UK.
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

Enough (I'm not asking). You are like a dog chasing his tail...using your own quotes to continue to find a reason to post.

No problem enough said.smile.gif
bazlog is offline  
post #1316 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 03:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ronomy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 41
I could see this technology added to all displays in the future! It doesn't look like a sharpness control to me. It doesn't make background out of focus images look artificial with halos like a sharpness control. It just makes the image look a lot clearer. More like the original!
tkbryant likes this.
Ronomy is offline  
post #1317 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
SolidSignal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: HQ Detroit Metro
Posts: 655
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We tested the Darblet over at the Solid Signal Blog a while back. For my test setup I used a fairly modest home theatre:

Samsung UN46D6420 LCD
Samsung BDD5500 Blu-ray Player connected via HDMI
For reference I used Transformers: Dark of the Moon.

In my review I say it's not for everyone but it does give a very decent "one-touch" control over the enhancement features. I doubt you'll find a better, easier set of enhancements for the money, especially in one small package. I've been monitoring this thread and I'd say, if you're the sort of person who thinks this type of enhancement is sacrilege, don't buy one.
SolidSignal is offline  
post #1318 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 03:47 PM
Member
 
Scottthehat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I believe that's all the majority, if not all here in this thread are looking to obtain.
Sharpening without ringing or artifacts.
its alot of cash for a sharpning tool, I think alot of buyers will feel robbed when they get the item, its defo worth seeing in action before spending that kind of money.

sharp lcd 42"samsung ps59d550 plasma,onkyo 875/606,sherrwood 945 avr,sony md/cd/ps3,toshiba hd dvd/bluray,panasonic blu-ray,wharfdale front/center/15" sub+2 12",eltax liberty rears x2(7.1),jamo 12" fronts + rears,sky hd,teac td, spyder 4tvhd + chromapure calibration stuff. nikon d700/d300 + pro glas
Scottthehat is offline  
post #1319 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 04:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ronomy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottthehat View Post

its alot of cash for a sharpning tool, I think alot of buyers will feel robbed when they get the item, its defo worth seeing in action before spending that kind of money.

Heck I thought it was cheap for what it does! Just don't use much processing. 35% to 45 in the HD mode is about right. Higher with better images like Avatar. Hard to live without it now that mine is out for the update. :-)
Ronomy is offline  
post #1320 of 10224 Old 07-30-2012, 04:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 2,091
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottthehat View Post

its alot of cash for a sharpning tool, I think alot of buyers will feel robbed when they get the item, its defo worth seeing in action before spending that kind of money.

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif What is it with you guys "over there", not having even seen the product yourselves, or one of you but for a very limited time and actually "liked it" before he read from others he shouldn't like it, with displays a fraction of the size of what most of the actual owners here are using with projectors..... feeling somehow almost compelled (comes to mind) to invade an "owners" thread with your good intentions to "save us" all from ourselves? Laugh my proverbial bleep off. And then......not even bother reading what's been posted in 44 pages. From the owners. I can't recall one person feeling he was "robbed" or "ripped off". Quite the opposite. That is a fact not a supposition. Not to mention that none of you ever concedes that there are for some of us....maybe many of us other things to do with a great video display such as watch live events and specials and sports and all manner of other fun things besides "movies".
RonF is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Video Processors

Tags
Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off