Lumagen Radiance 20XX Support Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 399 Old 11-14-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Sounds great.

For instance, when I use my Anamorphic lens I have to zoom out the image a bit larger than the masked screen frame, to get rid of some pin-cushioning at the outsides of the picture. While the over-zoomed picture edges are mostly soaked up by my black masking, on the brightest scenes sometimes I can see the image edges on my masking. So being able to blank out just the desired edges of the image would be helpful.

I don't think it would help there. The masking will black out whole rows or columns of pixels. If you have pincushioning then only part of the column will be off the screen. If you mask off an entire column of pixels then you're back where you started.
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post #32 of 399 Old 11-14-2013, 12:10 PM
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I see what you're saying Scott. But I think it would still work somewhat to get what I'd want. Optically, the image is still most distorted at the very edges - the edges that would be off screen. Cropping the outer edge would at leas yield a bit less distortion in the outside of what's left of the image.

Either way, even if that didn't work out as desired, I still would have use for the first process I asked about, in which I'm simply zooming and over-scanning an image without using an A-lens.
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post #33 of 399 Old 11-14-2013, 02:19 PM
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The lens is distorting the image around the edges, causing the straight edge of the image to bow. The Radiance can mask off a straight line on the edge of the image. It depends on how deep into the image the optical distortion, caused by the lens, goes as to how successfully you can mask it off.

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post #34 of 399 Old 11-14-2013, 04:24 PM
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post #35 of 399 Old 11-17-2013, 09:33 AM
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Once your Lumagen is set up for your various sources, I rarely need to access any of the menu. When I do, I just use the IR remote.

Last night I hooked up my new 2041. After hook up I say that it thought by 4096 projector was a 1080p projector. So I changed the setting into the output menu (actually to 3840 30) and when I switched, my Sony 1000ES went blank, wouldn't respond to Sony remote at all. Fortunately I deliberately didn't do a save with the Lumagen so by cycling the Lumagen off/on it reset itself to 1080p 60 and the Sony returned to normality but not its owner. I says. Oh F. My 50 ft HDMIs in the ceiling from the Lumagen to the projector are too old to carry 3840 30. Better test my thesis but with me being a Fing genius, I knew really needed no verification. But in the interest to trying to prove my self wrong and add to my small list where over my life I have been wrong, I moved the Lumagen to resting on the bottom of the hanging Sony, used my two long HDMIs to feed source resolution to the Lumagen and used a new short Type II HS HDMI from the Lumagen to the Sony. Problem solved. Now I have to spend a whole day unpacking and repacking my hung ceiling to run new cables.
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post #36 of 399 Old 12-18-2013, 05:13 AM
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Does anybody have an idea when HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 (or will it be a software upgrade only?) for the Lumagen 204X will be available? I would like to wait with purchasing the unit until this is built inside so not having to upgrade it again shortly after buying it!
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post #37 of 399 Old 12-18-2013, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Once your Lumagen is set up for your various sources, I rarely need to access any of the menu. When I do, I just use the IR remote.

Last night I hooked up my new 2041. After hook up I say that it thought by 4096 projector was a 1080p projector. So I changed the setting into the output menu (actually to 3840 30) and when I switched, my Sony 1000ES went blank, wouldn't respond to Sony remote at all. Fortunately I deliberately didn't do a save with the Lumagen so by cycling the Lumagen off/on it reset itself to 1080p 60 and the Sony returned to normality but not its owner. I says. Oh F. My 50 ft HDMIs in the ceiling from the Lumagen to the projector are too old to carry 3840 30. Better test my thesis but with me being a Fing genius, I knew really needed no verification. But in the interest to trying to prove my self wrong and add to my small list where over my life I have been wrong, I moved the Lumagen to resting on the bottom of the hanging Sony, used my two long HDMIs to feed source resolution to the Lumagen and used a new short Type II HS HDMI from the Lumagen to the Sony. Problem solved. Now I have to spend a whole day unpacking and repacking my hung ceiling to run new cables.
Im Sure your going to enjoy doing that Mark biggrin.gif, at least you know beforehand it will be time not wasted wink.gif..

God Damn HDMI !!!!!
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post #38 of 399 Old 12-20-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post

Does anybody have an idea when HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 (or will it be a software upgrade only?) for the Lumagen 204X will be available? I would like to wait with purchasing the unit until this is built inside so not having to upgrade it again shortly after buying it!

The 20XX series do not accept any 4K sources so hdcp2.2 is not relevant for them. I think it is fair to say that there will be no 1080p sources that require HDCP2.2

HDMI2.0 is unknown at present.

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post #39 of 399 Old 12-25-2013, 10:20 AM
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Gordon. When the 4K HDMI Lumagens get manufactured I expect they will use HDCP 2.2 and will allow 4K 24, 30 and 60 in and will add 4K 60 out. Right now the 4K 30 out limit restricts in practicality its use to 1080p 24 in. Starting with a 60 in and limiting out to 30 at 4K is not good for PQ. But the improvement at 1080p 24 in and out to the Sony 4Ks is worth it for movies alone..
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post #40 of 399 Old 01-05-2014, 01:25 PM
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I was watching football both yesterday and today and noticed that the Radiance is cutting off some of the image, both top and bottom. There is nothing below the banner (score, time etc.) when it is on the bottom of the screen and nothing above it when on top. In fact, it cuts off a fraction of the banner. First I checked the zoom and shift settings in the projector and that's not the problem. I took the Radiance out of the path - DTV DVR directly into the RS57 projector, and there is few inches of picture (on my 100" screen) above the top banner in the Chargers-Bengals game. The only non-default setting that I think I have for the Radiance is 1080p output, but I changed that back to 1080i and there was no change. Does anyone have an idea as to what might be causing this?

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post #41 of 399 Old 01-05-2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisBP View Post

I was watching football both yesterday and today and noticed that the Radiance is cutting off some of the image, both top and bottom. There is nothing below the banner (score, time etc.) when it is on the bottom of the screen and nothing above it when on top. In fact, it cuts off a fraction of the banner. First I checked the zoom and shift settings in the projector and that's not the problem. I took the Radiance out of the path - DTV DVR directly into the RS57 projector, and there is few inches of picture (on my 100" screen) above the top banner in the Chargers-Bengals game. The only non-default setting that I think I have for the Radiance is 1080p output, but I changed that back to 1080i and there was no change. Does anyone have an idea as to what might be causing this?

It's set to 1.85 instead of 16:9. Press the 16:9 button on the remote.
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post #42 of 399 Old 01-05-2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

It's set to 1.85 instead of 16:9. Press the 16:9 button on the remote.

Too simple - Thanks for responding so quickly.

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post #43 of 399 Old 01-05-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DennisBP View Post

Too simple - Thanks for responding so quickly.

It's happened to me before and took me a while to figure it out. I guess the purpose of this mode is to get rid of the tiny black bars on 1.85 movies.
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post #44 of 399 Old 01-13-2014, 11:20 AM
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Does the 2021 influence the colors right out of the box?
I just got the 2021. When I installed it between my TiVo Roamio & JVC DILA X-3 everything turned very, very purple. Is that intended until one calibrates?
I reset to factory defaults & turned off Darbee - no effect - still very purple.

Is there a way I can see if it's applying some sort of color correction?
Is there a setting for VP to do nothing? To just Pass through? Like a starting point? I would prefer the VP not influence the colors until I or the auto calibrate changes the colors.
It's probably too much to hope that there's a simple "turn off purpleness" menu option?

Thanks for any help. This is my first foray into VP's so I admit my ignorance.

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post #45 of 399 Old 01-13-2014, 04:03 PM
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The colors should look normal on a new Radiance or after a factory reset. Try swapping HDMI cables between 2021 and projector or try connecting to another display. Then try contacting Lumagen support.

Patrick Harkin, Lumagen Inc. engineer
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post #46 of 399 Old 01-13-2014, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptCapitalism View Post

Does the 2021 influence the colors right out of the box?
I just got the 2021. When I installed it between my TiVo Roamio & JVC DILA X-3 everything turned very, very purple. Is that intended until one calibrates?
I reset to factory defaults & turned off Darbee - no effect - still very purple.

Is there a way I can see if it's applying some sort of color correction?
Is there a setting for VP to do nothing? To just Pass through? Like a starting point? I would prefer the VP not influence the colors until I or the auto calibrate changes the colors.
It's probably too much to hope that there's a simple "turn off purpleness" menu option?

Thanks for any help. This is my first foray into VP's so I admit my ignorance.

I defer to Patrick Harkin, but your purple color could very well be magenta. I've seen this (but not on my Mini 3D or 2021) when there is a color space mismatch. That is, the 2021 is set to YCbCr, but the JVC is looking for RGB, or vice-versa.

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post #47 of 399 Old 01-14-2014, 01:09 PM
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Purple Issue resolved. Rebooting the Tivo did the trick.
(The projector & 2021 had the Color Space set to Auto.)

Does anyone know how to switch to another CMS profile with no corrections?
I ran ChromaPure auto-calibrate. Now I want to turn it on off to compare. I can't figure out with the remote how change CMS profiles.
Too much to hope for a CMS Profiles split screen like the Darbee has? Can I request for the feature to be added? A split screen to compare CMS profiles?

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post #48 of 399 Old 01-14-2014, 02:03 PM
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Just switch to another memory slot. The Radiances come with all their CMS and grayscale areas set to unity (no corrections), so any memory slot you haven't calibrated should be fine for comparison purposes.
I've seen it posted that only one CMS can be active at a time, so I doubt Lumagen will be able to add a split screen with different CMS selections on each side. This also means that both outputs must operate on the same CMS .

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post #49 of 399 Old 01-14-2014, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Just switch to another memory slot. The Radiances come with all their CMS and grayscale areas set to unity (no corrections), so any memory slot you haven't calibrated should be fine for comparison purposes.

I'm not sure it's that simple. Won't MemA and MemB both use CMS0 by default?

So, switch to MemB, then set it to CMS1, then save. Now MemB will be uncalibrated and MemA will still use your calibrated CMS0.
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post #50 of 399 Old 01-14-2014, 06:28 PM
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Thanks ScottJ! Got it working.
Now I just press mema/memb to compare.
Looks great! Skin tones are way more realistic! Everything is more realistic.
Couple of questions:
How often, hours wise do I have to calibrate/How much does lamp dimming influence calibration?
Also, my calibrated pic does look very dark in comparison. How can I verify that I'm not too dark? Is there a report in chromapure that I can run?

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post #51 of 399 Old 01-15-2014, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

I'm not sure it's that simple. Won't MemA and MemB both use CMS0 by default?

So, switch to MemB, then set it to CMS1, then save. Now MemB will be uncalibrated and MemA will still use your calibrated CMS0.

You're right, Scott. I was at work when I wrote that and completely forgot about the slots using CMS 0 by default. D-oh!

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post #52 of 399 Old 01-17-2014, 01:07 PM
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I hope this is the right thread to get Lumagen's ear on this:

A Possible incompatibility between the Lumagen 2041 and new JVC projectors!

I bought a new Lumagen 2041 a while back, which has been sitting in it's box waiting for the ever-delayed arrival of my new JVC RS57 projector. Unfortunately, I'm hearing reports that suggest there might be
an issue between the Lumagen 2041 and the new JVC projectors.

ETA: I have removed this portion. It looks like I jumped the gun. The forum member was being scrupulous about not jumping to conclusions regarding the issues with the 2041 and has not finished testing.
I should not have posted the info he shared with me and should have left it to him to post about it, when or if he wished to. My apologies.

Also, it was reported on the UK AVforums that an installer who has the 2041 tried to use it to calibrate a new JVC RS500 projector, and it was all messed up. A quote:

"we then tried to calibrate the Lumagen 2041 and for some weird reason we haven`t worked out yet, when using Chromapure the image was red, all the calcs looked good to us but it was definitely reddish
So we then used Calman 5 to calibrate the Lumagen and even though the report looked good the gamma was a complete mess and still not sure what`s happening"


So the only two people I know of using the new 2041 with the new JVC projectors have both reported problems.

This has me very nervous: I'd considered buying a Lumagen for quite a while, but was nervous about all the trouble-shooting I'd see in these VP forums, and was anxious about introducing another "source of possible problems' into my system.
But I want to do self-calibration of my projector and Lumagen seemed the ticket so I spent the thousands to get one. It will be complicated (and pricey) to put it into my system because I need to rewire a bit, but mostly I need it's commands programmed into my RTI remote control, which costs money because I have to have an RTI installer do it. That's why I'm flagging this issue, in case it can be looked at before I go to this trouble.

Thanks to anyone who can help.
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post #53 of 399 Old 01-17-2014, 02:07 PM
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^ Rich: You will probably get an a good answer here but IMO the best place for a question like yours is in the user forum on the Lumagen site. Note that Lumagen will find out the source of the problem and fix it. I have seem them issue a firmware update to fix an issue with equipment that I have never heard of. Great customer service.
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post #54 of 399 Old 01-17-2014, 02:28 PM
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Thanks,

I quickly visited the Lumagen forum list. I see a forum for XD users, but none listed for 20XX users. Any suggestions of where to post my inquiry?

Thanks.
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post #55 of 399 Old 01-17-2014, 06:57 PM
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Oh man, it's bad enough reading that the Lumagen 2041 is having trouble with JVC projectors, now once I visit the Lumagen forum it also seems to be extra finicky with HDMI cables, and isn't working...of course...for someone using the very Belden cables that I use, running under my floor and through my walls.

The more I read, the more my worries about trying a Lumagen in my system seem justified.
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post #56 of 399 Old 01-17-2014, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Oh man, it's bad enough reading that the Lumagen 2041 is having trouble with JVC projectors, now once I visit the Lumagen forum it also seems to be extra finicky with HDMI cables, and isn't working...of course...for someone using the very Belden cables that I use, running under my floor and through my walls.

The more I read, the more my worries about trying a Lumagen in my system seem justified.

Have the jvc owners contacted Lumagen on this? I find if there is a compatibility issue with Lumagen they usually rectify it quickly with a firmware update. Regarding Hdmi cables I've not had any issues yet.

God Bless!
A good way to test your Iris on your projector is on the Spears and Munsil disc. Go to Video processing then select Luminance Loading. Don't stare directly at the lens but on an angle and you can actually see the Iris at work.
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post #57 of 399 Old 01-18-2014, 01:14 AM
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Jim posted a very reasoned and technical reply as to why folk have cable issues with 4K output devices in general. i believe if folk follow his guidelines you should be fine.
Richard, post in the XD support forum...i'll get it renamed to RADIANCE support to make things clearer

Regarding the calibration problems. Lumagen processors just do that they are told to do by software calibration tools. If a piece of software is reporting that a box is white when it's pink then it's not lumagen that is the problem it's the calibration tools measuring and reporting the light off the display/screen. I have had, before the 20xx range were even designed, a similar issue with a calibration software from one of the vendors, where the auto cal would get confused and go in to a death spiral of making errors bigger and bigger before it just gave up and moved to the next patch. This resulted in either magenta or cyan coloured images. I ditched that companies software and now use alternatives. i'd also mention that if software is measuring a patch and reporting it as accurate, and it IS accurate, then when you actually look at content it doesn't look right, then it is likely that some "feature" of the display has been incorrectly set prior to calibration (ie a dynamic contrast enhancement or an auto iris) or incorrect patterns have been used to take the measurements during that calibration.

I am sure that if there is some issue with handshaking between devices and new JVC projectors you can expect Lumagen, of all the manufacturers out there, will attempt to work out what's going on and offer a work around if they can.

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post #58 of 399 Old 01-18-2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

Jim posted a very reasoned and technical reply as to why folk have cable issues with 4K output devices in general. i believe if folk follow his guidelines you should be fine.
Richard, post in the XD support forum...i'll get it renamed to RADIANCE support to make things clearer

Regarding the calibration problems. Lumagen processors just do that they are told to do by software calibration tools. If a piece of software is reporting that a box is white when it's pink then it's not lumagen that is the problem it's the calibration tools measuring and reporting the light off the display/screen. I have had, before the 20xx range were even designed, a similar issue with a calibration software from one of the vendors, where the auto cal would get confused and go in to a death spiral of making errors bigger and bigger before it just gave up and moved to the next patch. This resulted in either magenta or cyan coloured images. I ditched that companies software and now use alternatives. i'd also mention that if software is measuring a patch and reporting it as accurate, and it IS accurate, then when you actually look at content it doesn't look right, then it is likely that some "feature" of the display has been incorrectly set prior to calibration (ie a dynamic contrast enhancement or an auto iris) or incorrect patterns have been used to take the measurements during that calibration.

I am sure that if there is some issue with handshaking between devices and new JVC projectors you can expect Lumagen, of all the manufacturers out there, will attempt to work out what's going on and offer a work around if they can.

Gordon

First, I really appreciate the information. Thank you!

Though, I'm a bit puzzled by the reply about the calibration problems experienced by Ideal AV on the UK forum. Your response implies he looks to the calibration software as faulty. But he used both Chromapure and Calman, the two most widely used calibration softwares, which are specifically designed with Lumagen compatibility. People succesfully use the other Lumagen VPs all the time with that software. I'd think Ideal AV has calibrated many products via lumagen processors before, so it's not making sense to me to point to the calibration software, when it happens only with the 2041.

Rich
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post #59 of 399 Old 01-18-2014, 02:39 PM
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I have an RS57, Radiance 2021 and Chromapure auto-cal software. I now have 102 hours on my RS57, probably 25 to 30 of those spent on calibration (significant learning curve for a first time Radiance owner (and auto-cal user). I have previously manually calibrated a VP (VideoEQ) with Chromapure software, though I would still count myself as a calibration novice.

I successfully updated the firmware on Thursday and, like others, my HDMI handshake problems seem to have gone away. After initial startup problems, my auto calibrations have gone well, except that I can't get a good gamma curve (mostly a drop off at the high end. My post-cal deltaE's are almost always good . I have tried multiple settings for both the pj and the Chromapure software, but no success in getting a flat gamma curve. I have chalked up this problem to my inexperience, but I guess it could be the Radiance, though the smart money is still on operator error. I have always said that the only thing that has kept me from being a pro athlete is lack of talent and that same concept can be applied to calibration.

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post #60 of 399 Old 01-19-2014, 02:56 AM
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Rich.

Only one of the calibration runs was problematic. They had two sets of software and two sets of hardware. Alan at Ideal AV has not been through any form of training and has just bought the kit. He only got the 2041 just before xmas and i've not had a chance to get up to see him yet. I hope to be there in 7-14 days. When i spoke to them both that evening at 5.30pm they had completed a satisfactory calibration run with calman and they were happy. I do not know why they did not post that information on the forum. Only one run caused them issues. It seems they did a calibration and the charts looked good but when they looked at the final image it had a red tinge. That has nothing to do with LUMAGEN. After that they used a different set of tools and did a calman auto cal run with alternate laptop etc and it was fine. As i have pointed out. If you do not use correct patterns, if you do not set enhancement options on the display correctly, if there are issues with the calibration tools and software, then you will get that sort of result but it has NOTHING to do with Lumagen. Lumagens problem is that their devices are complicated and very powerful and often misunderstood, so whenever anyone comes across a problem the blame is usually set at their door, when almost inevitably it's nothing to do with them, although in some cases they can create work arounds to mitigate them.

Gordon

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