Lumagen Radiance 20XX Support Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 399 Old 01-19-2014, 03:19 AM
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^^^ IN other words most likely due to inexperience , we need to understand for best results (Less issues) its important to optimize the Display device first, not think of Auto cal as A one click magic solution because this is simply not always the case smile.gif..
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post #62 of 399 Old 01-19-2014, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

^^^ IN other words most likely due to inexperience , we need to understand for best results (Less issues) its important to optimize the Display device first, not think of Auto cal as A one click magic solution because this is simply not always the case smile.gif..

That is very true

God Bless!
A good way to test your Iris on your projector is on the Spears and Munsil disc. Go to Video processing then select Luminance Loading. Don't stare directly at the lens but on an angle and you can actually see the Iris at work.
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post #63 of 399 Old 01-19-2014, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

^^^ IN other words most likely due to inexperience , we need to understand for best results (Less issues) its important to optimize the Display device first, not think of Auto cal as A one click magic solution because this is simply not always the case smile.gif..

Could you clarify this a little? Both Lumagen and Chromapure recommend that you just set the white and black levels in the pj, leaving all other settings on default which I have done for my RS57. I did turn off the dynamic iris during auto-cal.

thanks

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post #64 of 399 Old 01-19-2014, 05:01 AM
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Lumagen actually suggest setting more than just black and white level. They suggest setting at least 100% stimulus greyscale accurately using display settings plus they suggest choosing a gamma profile near to your target and, if the display is a super wide gamut display, they suggest choosing a gamut option that is close to where you want to end up.
Personally i would do further investigations in to what presets gamma and gamuts are the most linear in operation and will therefor be the easiest to correct......

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post #65 of 399 Old 02-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

Lumagen actually suggest setting more than just black and white level. They suggest setting at least 100% stimulus greyscale accurately using display settings plus they suggest choosing a gamma profile near to your target and, if the display is a super wide gamut display, they suggest choosing a gamut option that is close to where you want to end up.
Personally i would do further investigations in to what presets gamma and gamuts are the most linear in operation and will therefor be the easiest to correct......



Thank you for this post Gordon. Following Lumagen's calibration protocol regarding setting 100% stimulus greyscale pattern using my projector's display settings made a world of difference in my calibration results!
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post #66 of 399 Old 02-07-2014, 03:27 PM
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Right then! I hope to try putting my Lumagen 2041 into my system this weekend to test out it's compatibility with my new JVC RS57 projector and existing cabling.

I know some owners have found the 2041 didn't work with their new equipment, or existing cables. If I've understood correctly, people have had trouble with the 2041 even passing 1080p because it's using a new
4K output chips have have faster edge rates, necessitating 4K capable HDMI cables. So first I want to see if it will pass even 1080p on my system (and if it does, shouldn't that mean it will pass 4K?).

The "quick set up" in the guide looks pretty clear. I'm going to simply test the picture this weekend so I'll only be connecting my Blu-Ray player and using the Lumagen output 1. Once I am sure the Lumagen will pass video in my system (or I have to get new cables) then I'll configure it with my AVR and use output 2 for video switching.

My main question is: are there any "do's "or "donts" I should watch out for when testing out the Lumagen for the first time?

Thanks.
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post #67 of 399 Old 02-07-2014, 06:41 PM
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You might find "Tech Tip 19 - Installation Notes" helpful.
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

Connect your receiver to HDMI Output 1 and your display to HDMI Output 2.
Connect a video source and you should get an image on your display.

Press the "Ok" button on the Lumagen remote to display the Radiance Info Screen.
This shows the input resolution, output resolution, and HDCP status. This can be good info when you are setting up a system.

Most likely your cables will work and your will get a great looking image.

You can always call or email Lumagen if you have a question.
If you post your questions here there are a lot of experienced Radiance owners who will be happy to help.

Have fun,
Randy Freeman
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post #68 of 399 Old 02-08-2014, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I know some owners have found the 2041 didn't work with their new equipment, or existing cables. If I've understood correctly, people have had trouble with the 2041 even passing 1080p because it's using a new
4K output chips have have faster edge rates, necessitating 4K capable HDMI cables. So first I want to see if it will pass even 1080p on my system (and if it does, shouldn't that mean it will pass 4K?).

I am considering the purchase of a 2041 to replace my XS-3D; I don't have a 4K display, but this post has me concerned. I am just wondering if I swap the devices without changing anything else in the system, if I can potentially have problems with the 2041 given the new HDMI chips?

Thanks.

Mark

Lumagen Radiance Pro HDR Tone Mapping Guide: Click Here

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post #69 of 399 Old 02-08-2014, 06:17 AM
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post #70 of 399 Old 02-08-2014, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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The 2041 does use 4K output chips, and some lessor performing 2K rated cables are showing issues. This is not an equipment issue, but rather a HDMI cable issue. I can say that most people find their 2K rated cables work fine, but for longer runs, or some 2K rated cables, you might need to upgrade to a 4k rated cable for the Radiance outputs even if running at alower output rate. This is due to the faster edge rates of the output chips and described by transmission line theory..

We are finding the Monoprice Redmere 4k rated cables work well. We tested a 60 foot Monoprice Redmere at 4k30 and it worked well in our lab. Other 4k rated cables should also work.

Note that this is not affect the sounce connection to a Radiance 20XX input.

Jim Peterson
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post #71 of 399 Old 02-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

The 2041 does use 4K output chips, and some lessor performing 2K rated cables are showing issues. This is not an equipment issue, but rather a HDMI cable issue. I can say that most people find their 2K rated cables work fine, but for longer runs, or some 2K rated cables, you might need to upgrade to a 4k rated cable for the Radiance outputs even if running at alower output rate. This is due to the faster edge rates of the output chips and described by transmission line theory..

We are finding the Monoprice Redmere 4k rated cables work well. We tested a 60 foot Monoprice Redmere at 4k30 and it worked well in our lab. Other 4k rated cables should also work.

Note that this is not affect the sounce connection to a Radiance 20XX input.

Thanks Jim,

So that is an issue I would eventually run into anyway. I am curious if you tested any Blue Jeans Cable HDMI cables? I have the following:

A 25-foot BJC Series-FE High-Speed Category 2, 340 MHz going to my projector.
A 45-foot BJC Series-1 Standard Speed Category 1, 74.5MHz going to my family room AVR.

I suspect the 45-footer is questionable, given the Category 1 status.

Mark

Lumagen Radiance Pro HDR Tone Mapping Guide: Click Here

Lumagen Radiance Pro Setup & Calibration Tips: Click Here

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post #72 of 399 Old 02-10-2014, 02:00 PM
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Is the pattern generator on these newer Lumagens capable of display 4k patterns for calibration?
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post #73 of 399 Old 02-10-2014, 07:22 PM
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The single line test patterns are displayed at 4K resolution if the output mode is set to a 4k mode. This includes the geometry test patterns and the every other line test patterns.

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post #74 of 399 Old 02-10-2014, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Is the pattern generator on these newer Lumagens capable of display 4k patterns for calibration?

Hello. Yes it is, I have tested all of the patterns (Radiance 2041) with a sony vw500 (same as vw600) and It worked very well.
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post #75 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks Jim,

So that is an issue I would eventually run into anyway. I am curious if you tested any Blue Jeans Cable HDMI cables? I have the following:

A 25-foot BJC Series-FE High-Speed Category 2, 340 MHz going to my projector.
A 45-foot BJC Series-1 Standard Speed Category 1, 74.5MHz going to my family room AVR.

I suspect the 45-footer is questionable, given the Category 1 status.

Mark

I decided to check if Blue Jeans Cable had newer versions of their cables, and they do not. So, I read the description from the Series-1, which is my 45-foot cable:

Where performance over distance is required, our best cable is our original Belden Series-1, a 23.5 AWG HDMI cable. The Series-1 is quite thick and stiff, which is a drawback in terms of installation convenience, but performs better over distance than anything else we have seen--and this is borne out by its independent HDMI certifications. It is certified to the longest distances of any HDMI cable we know of--45 feet for Category 1 ("Standard" speed), 25 feet for Category 2 ("High speed". In actual usage, it ordinarily will work at distances far exceeding these--we have run 1080p video through a 125 foot Series-1 HDMI cable without any information loss, but results will vary depending on the capabilities of the sending and receiving circuits of the devices in use.

Any comments on whether or not this cable will work with the Radiance 20XX (at 1080p/60) would be appreciated. Aside from actual user experience, I will settle for speculation.

Thanks.

Mark

Lumagen Radiance Pro HDR Tone Mapping Guide: Click Here

Lumagen Radiance Pro Setup & Calibration Tips: Click Here

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post #76 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I decided to check if Blue Jeans Cable had newer versions of their cables, and they do not. So, I read the description from the Series-1, which is my 45-foot cable:

Where performance over distance is required, our best cable is our original Belden Series-1, a 23.5 AWG HDMI cable. The Series-1 is quite thick and stiff, which is a drawback in terms of installation convenience, but performs better over distance than anything else we have seen--and this is borne out by its independent HDMI certifications. It is certified to the longest distances of any HDMI cable we know of--45 feet for Category 1 ("Standard" speed), 25 feet for Category 2 ("High speed". In actual usage, it ordinarily will work at distances far exceeding these--we have run 1080p video through a 125 foot Series-1 HDMI cable without any information loss, but results will vary depending on the capabilities of the sending and receiving circuits of the devices in use.

Any comments on whether or not this cable will work with the Radiance 20XX (at 1080p/60) would be appreciated. Aside from actual user experience, I will settle for speculation.

Thanks.

Mark

I'll have pertinent comments (I hope) soon. Today I plan to test exactly those cables with my Lumagen 2041 and my new JVC RS57 projector. I have a 45 foot length and 50 foot length to test.
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post #77 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 12:24 PM
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Ok, so I'm trying to set up my Lumagen. It came only with a single sheet of paper "Quick Start" guide.

Given I bought this processor in November, I wanted to know how to check the firmware and know how to download new firmware, since Lumagen puts out so many firmware updates. After downloading the user manual from Lumagen, I'm perplexed that a I found no mention or description of this process beyond "the RS232 port is used for software updates." .

I did finally find this information rummaging around on the Lumagen site, under software downloads. But as newbie customer feedback: I'd think this important process would be mentioned and described more clearly in the User Manual. (Unless it's there and I can't find it - and admittedly I'm new to Lumagen products, and perhaps they are aimed for a higher-than-novice consumer/installer).

Anyway..onward...(I've already experienced very helpful people in the Lumagen community).
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post #78 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 12:43 PM
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Rich,

You can download the latest firmware update from the Lumagen site (on the computer you plan to use to perform the update), and when you unzip it, there will be a PDF in there describing the firmware update process.

In a nutshel, you hook up a serial cable, launch the updater (built into the downloaded file), and click start.

Sometimes it is not that easy, but give it a shot first.

Good Luck

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Lumagen Radiance Pro HDR Tone Mapping Guide: Click Here

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post #79 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 12:50 PM
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Thank you Mark.

I'm not experienced in updating firmware for any of my audio/visual equipment, aside from Apple TV, which apple makes close to automatic.

I have some pretty basic questions like: When sending the new firmware to the Lumagen from a PC, do I need to do anything other than have the Lumagen turned on? Does it need to be in any particular input mode? Do I need to
be watching anything on screen (e.g. whatever the Lumagen might be showing on my projection screen)? Or is it just press "go" and when the PC says finished uploading, I'm done?

Not that you have to answer: I'm hoping that is in the pdf.
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post #80 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 01:07 PM
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You just turn on the Radiance, connect the RS-2323 serial cable between the Radiance and the PC, run the updater program, select the Com port, and press Start.

This is all explained in more detail in "Tech Tip 6 - Updating The Radiance" which is included in the zip file with the new software. Or you can download the tech tip from the Lumagen website.
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

You can call Lumagen Tech Support and we can walk you through the procedure. 503-574-2211 x104

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post #81 of 399 Old 02-11-2014, 02:56 PM
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I appreciate it Randy.

I've just hooked up my 2041 into my system, just a basic set up to test picture: Oppo Blu-Ray player HDMI out to HDMI input 1 of the Lumagen, and Lumagen output HDMI 2 to my new JVC RS57 projector.

First the good news: It works! I'm getting a picture! Whew!

But of course I want to test the 2041 sending a 4K signal (upscaled from the Blu-Ray player) to see how that works with my projector, since it is supposed to accept a 4K input signal.

However, having combed through the entire manual, I can find no mention of 4K output, let alone instructions on how to switch the unit to 4K output!

ETA: I was helped by another forum member with this, walked through to getting to the 4K output. It worked. So it looks like the 2041 works with both my current Bluejeans 45 ft HDMI
cable, and also with my new RS57 projector, which is accepting and displaying the Lumagen outputing 4K. So I'm very happy about that.
And then when I went back to the manual..red faced..I saw the section detailing how to change output resolutions. I guess it was just a bit daunting on the "don't want to screw anything up"
factor. But now I think I've got the hang of it.

QUESTION still left over: I want to switch back and forth between the regular 1080p output of my Oppo BDP-93 with Blu-Rays, and the Lumagen upscaling my Blu-Rays to 4K.
The Lumagen manual says that the unit, unless changed, is defaulted to output "Auto 2,1" in which it senses both source resolution and display resolution.
If I want my Oppo's 1080p output to "passthrough" unchanged, would Auto 2,1 be the correct output setting?
And, what would be the difference if instead of Auto 2,1 I chose output 1080p from the Lumagen output menu? Would that do anything different to the 1080p signal from my Oppo vs just
chosing the Auto 2,1 option?

I'm trying to make sure I'm not "double-processing" the 1080p image somehow, passing it as cleanly from my Oppo through the Lumagen to projector as possible.

Thanks.
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post #82 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 02:07 AM
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auto2,1, withyour projector, will be the same as setting it to do 1080P24 for 1080P24, 1080P60 out for any 60Hz input signal.

To do what you want to compare use two memories. IE MEMA and MEMB
Set MEMB so that ALL inputs and ALL INPUT MEMORIES use OUTPUT MODE AUTO 2,1
Set MEMA so that ALL inputs and 1080P24 outputs 4K24.

If you email me i have a small word document i wrote yesterday for one of my Swiss customers that details the procedure with step by step button pushes as well as a couple of pictures of the on screen menu so you can see what i'm talking about.

Glad it's all working for you.....they are complex devices and it's one of the reasons that in UK I try to make sure every single one is installad by someone who has experience with them...or preferably, me!

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post #83 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 02:16 AM
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New Firmware for 20XX models to sort out a small bug i came across yesterday...pretty amazing service again by Patrick. I reported the bug mid afternoon UK time and by late evening it had been recreated and fixed....awesome.


http://www.lumagen.com/docs/radiance20XX_020114.zip

Production 020114- Fixed an issue when switching between 4k and 2k output modes where output style was not correctly used (2041/2042 only). Fixed an audio loss issue when changing between DTS-HD multi channel and DTS-HD 2 channel. Update time ~3 minutes @57k

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post #84 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

New Firmware for 20XX models to sort out a small bug i came across yesterday...pretty amazing service again by Patrick. I reported the bug mid afternoon UK time and by late evening it had been recreated and fixed....awesome.

That's fantastic, Lumagen are on top of the ball with these products. Well done Lumagen smile.gif

God Bless!
A good way to test your Iris on your projector is on the Spears and Munsil disc. Go to Video processing then select Luminance Loading. Don't stare directly at the lens but on an angle and you can actually see the Iris at work.
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post #85 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
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ETA: I was helped by another forum member with this, walked through to getting to the 4K output. It worked. So it looks like the 2041 works with both my current Bluejeans 45 ft HDMI
cable, and also with my new RS57 projector, which is accepting and displaying the Lumagen outputing 4K. So I'm very happy about that.

Rich,

Just to be clear, the Radiance 2041 is working with your Blue Jeans Cable 45-foot BJC Series-1 Standard Speed Category 1, 74.5MHz HDMI cable at both 1080p/24 and 2160p/24?

That is great news!

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post #86 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Rich,

Just to be clear, the Radiance 2041 is working with your Blue Jeans Cable 45-foot BJC Series-1 Standard Speed Category 1, 74.5MHz HDMI cable at both 1080p/24 and 2160p/24?

That is great news!

Mark

Yes that's right.

I have a fairly cheap off-the-shelf 6 foot HDMI cable going from my Oppo Blu Ray player into the 2041, and a 45ft BJC Series 1 going to my projector, and there seems to be no issues at all thus far, with either 1080p or 1080p upscaled
to 4K via the Lumagen. It was a big relief to me.
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post #87 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

auto2,1, withyour projector, will be the same as setting it to do 1080P24 for 1080P24, 1080P60 out for any 60Hz input signal.

To do what you want to compare use two memories. IE MEMA and MEMB
Set MEMB so that ALL inputs and ALL INPUT MEMORIES use OUTPUT MODE AUTO 2,1
Set MEMA so that ALL inputs and 1080P24 outputs 4K24.

If you email me i have a small word document i wrote yesterday for one of my Swiss customers that details the procedure with step by step button pushes as well as a couple of pictures of the on screen menu so you can see what i'm talking about.

Glad it's all working for you.....they are complex devices and it's one of the reasons that in UK I try to make sure every single one is installad by someone who has experience with them...or preferably, me!

Much obliged.

I don't have your email so I'm sending you a PM.

Also, per your following post, do I have to update my firmware (which is a few months old I'm guessing) in order to do this A/B comparison and have it work properly?
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post #88 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 07:56 AM
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I would update it yes...the bug appears to have been in since december at least.....it's pretty specific problem though which is why no-one came across it but if you are going to be comparing memories that are outputting 1080p and 4K with different OUTPUT style settings then i'd do the update...in fact it wont hurt to do it anyway....

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post #89 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 08:17 AM
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Ok, time to search for a local store with a usb to serial port adapter, as my ACER PC doesn't have a serial port.

BTW, For calibrating via the Lumagen you want the laptop in the same room as the projector, but the laptop must be connected to the Lumagen via RS232. However, like some other folks here, my source equipment including the Lumagen
is in a separate room, quite a ways (about 25 feet) from the projection room. What solution is normally used for this?

It seems to me I'd have to use: a USB to serial port adapter (buying today I hope) and then a 25 ft USB extension cable to reach from the Lumagen in my equipment rack to my laptop in the projector room.

Also, there's the issue of having to use the Lumagen's single RS232 serial port for a variety of functions: 1. Control via my RTI remote control system. 2. For software updates. 3. For attaching my PC to calibrate my projector, using Chromapure software. The best solution I can think of is to buy a serial port splitter, so that one end is permanently attached to my RTI remote control system, and the other I attach to my computer when I need to for software updates/image calibration.

So I'd be buying 1. A USB to serial adapter. 2. A serial port splitter cable. 3. A 25 ft USB extension cable.

Anything wrong with that plan before I go purchasing such items?

Thanks.
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post #90 of 399 Old 02-12-2014, 08:34 AM
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I use a 5M serial extension cable on end of the usb to serial adaptor and lumagen supplied null modem cable with no problems.
I also just unplug the serial control cable whenever i need to do updates. You are not likely going to need rti control while you are doing calibration as i'd expect the calibration software will communicate with the scaler as to which patterns it needs. For precalibration you would need rti control to get lumagen test pattterns of course. So i'd think you can save on the serial hub requirement.

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ISF, Home Theater Consultants and Distribution, U.K.
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