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post #3301 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Why not just use the HDR mode for Lumagen auto HDR, and use one of the User modes for your other requirements? Harmony remote at least has discrete IR codes for the User modes (or it did on the x30, not tried it on X7900 yet).

Or do you have some other devices connected direct to display without the Lumagen in circuit (and so need the HDR mode to be a "proper" HDR mode?
The HDR mode has been calibrated and therefore cannot be moved to another user memory (at least that's my understanding).

Everything goes through my Lumagen, but I prefer to bypass the Lumagen's HDR->SDR conversion for a lot of HDR material.

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post #3302 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 10:28 AM
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I also don't have a practical use for the HDR flag option with my X9500, as the JVC HDR preset doesn't allow me to select the matching color profile to my BT.2020 conversion LUT on CMS1.

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post #3303 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post
I wasn't aware that the Lumagen could actually switch/change the iris in the JVC 500. What specific setting/settings do I change to get this to work?

The RS500 doesn't have a specific HDR preset. When it receives an HDR flag, all it does is switch to Gamma D. So this option in the Radiance doesn't help you that much.
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post #3304 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
The RS500 doesn't have a specific HDR preset. When it receives an HDR flag, all it does is switch to Gamma D. So this option in the Radiance doesn't help you that much.

Hmmm. Now I'm really confused as to the function/capability of the Lumagen Pro with the JVC 500. Seems that independent of whatever CMS is used the Lumagen does not have any means for changing the JVC's iris setting, right?

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post #3305 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 11:11 AM
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I have the JVC RS600 and use an HDFury Vertex to switch user modes on the JVC when Rec2020 is received instead of 709.
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post #3306 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I also don't have a practical use for the HDR flag option with my X9500, as the JVC HDR preset doesn't allow me to select the matching color profile to my BT.2020 conversion LUT on CMS1.
Interesting - which colour profile are you using for 2020 content in that case - not the BT2020 or HDR ones it sounds like? How come? (note I'm not criticising - I'm genuinely interested in how people are setting these things up as mine isn't done yet).
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post #3307 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
The HDR mode has been calibrated and therefore cannot be moved to another user memory (at least that's my understanding).

Everything goes through my Lumagen, but I prefer to bypass the Lumagen's HDR->SDR conversion for a lot of HDR material.
Fair enough, I don't know which bits you could move across by hand from the menus and which bits you can't..., and I guess whether the calibration included using the JVC Autocal gear would probably also make a difference.

It's hard to see how it could help you because it sounds like at some point you're making a manual decision to swap between Lumagen HDR and JVC HDR. Do you make the decision per input or on the fly based on how it looks?

If you use a Harmony remote you can always do what I used to do and have a macro to change memories on the Lumagen at the same time as you switch user modes on the JVC. I think that would give you a single button that you could press to go between PJ HDR and Lumagen HDR.
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post #3308 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Interesting - which colour profile are you using for 2020 content in that case - not the BT2020 or HDR ones it sounds like? How come? (note I'm not criticising - I'm genuinely interested in how people are setting these things up as mine isn't done yet).

I'm using the Reference profile and let my LightSpace LUT do the conversion on CMS1.
A LUT based on the JVC BT.2020 profile causes problems because of the poor RGB separation.
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post #3309 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I'm using the Reference profile and let my LightSpace LUT do the conversion on CMS1.
A LUT based on the JVC BT.2020 profile causes problems because of the poor RGB separation.
Useful info, I haven't tried profiling the BT2020 profile yet, and that was going to be my first call as I wanted to try and use the cinema filter. Does Reference allow use of the cinema filter then?

I guess you could still use the new firmware with an HDFURY vertex to spot the HDR flag, strip it out so the JVC doesn't switch to HDR mode, and then send the serial command to the JVC to switch to your user mode. So it gets you part of the way that you couldn't do automatically before I think...

It would be really cool if you could get the Lumagen to take on the role of a mini-control system, sending out certain RS232 strings in certain situations. For example I've got a new screen with electric masks coming, would be brilliant to be able to set up the Lumagen to drive them for me.

Anyone else here setting up Lumagens with electric masking variable ratio screens? How are you doing it?
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post #3310 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Fair enough, I don't know which bits you could move across by hand from the menus and which bits you can't..., and I guess whether the calibration included using the JVC Autocal gear would probably also make a difference.
I thought all calibration data was 100% visible in the JVC menus but I recently had Chad B out here to re-calibrate mine and he told me there was settings behind the scenes from the autocal that he did.

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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
It's hard to see how it could help you because it sounds like at some point you're making a manual decision to swap between Lumagen HDR and JVC HDR. Do you make the decision per input or on the fly based on how it looks?
Yes, I'm making a manual decision for my own viewing. I thought it might be nice to automate it for when my daughter watches a movie (where I'd have her watch HDR converted since it doesn't require high laser mode). Currently I have to set it up for her since the mode depends on what she watches.

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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If you use a Harmony remote you can always do what I used to do and have a macro to change memories on the Lumagen at the same time as you switch user modes on the JVC. I think that would give you a single button that you could press to go between PJ HDR and Lumagen HDR.
There doesn't seem to be any way to have my JVC go to a user picture mode directly, you have to navigate the menus otherwise I would do this (as I use Harmony).

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post #3311 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
It would be really cool if you could get the Lumagen to take on the role of a mini-control system, sending out certain RS232 strings in certain situations. For example I've got a new screen with electric masks coming, would be brilliant to be able to set up the Lumagen to drive them for me.
yeessss! That would be marvelous!!!! I have to manually send the command to the screen for each movie, boring.
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post #3312 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Useful info, I haven't tried profiling the BT2020 profile yet, and that was going to be my first call as I wanted to try and use the cinema filter. Does Reference allow use of the cinema filter then?
Yes, it uses the cinema filter. In fact I also use it for SDR since my unit does not fully reach Rec.709 in low lamp mode for the green primary without it. And by doing it this way the only difference between SDR and HDR is the iris setting for the JVC.
Quote:
I guess you could still use the new firmware with an HDFURY vertex to spot the HDR flag, strip it out so the JVC doesn't switch to HDR mode, and then send the serial command to the JVC to switch to your user mode. So it gets you part of the way that you couldn't do automatically before I think...
I sold my Vertex because it caused too many HDMI lockups on my JVC.

Quote:
It would be really cool if you could get the Lumagen to take on the role of a mini-control system, sending out certain RS232 strings in certain situations.
Yes, that would be nice. But with my Logitech Harmony and a small tool I wrote for controlling the JVC and Radiance via laptop and wifi, I don't have much trouble.
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post #3313 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
I thought all calibration data was 100% visible in the JVC menus but I recently had Chad B out here to re-calibrate mine and he told me there was settings behind the scenes from the autocal that he did.
Sounds like you need to leave HDR mode alone then.

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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
There doesn't seem to be any way to have my JVC go to a user picture mode directly, you have to navigate the menus otherwise I would do this (as I use Harmony).
JVC have lots of discrete codes which aren't on the remote; in the Harmony remote database for the previous X3 / X30 I had there were discrete buttons for USER1...5 and all the other modes. But I just checked the current 7900 Harmony database and it doesn't include anything that isn't on the original remote control.

There is a big list of old codes here:
http://support.jvc.com/consumer/supp...ntrolGuide.pdf
Another here:
http://support.jvc.com/consumer/supp...ote%20Code.pdf

I'd be mighty surprised if one of these codes doesn't have the desired effect, but you'd have to get them into the Harmony. At a push you might find adding the DLA-X30 to your config might allow you to test out the IR codes which are in there - they might work. If they do work it makes it much easier to communicate to Logitech to get them to add the appropriate codes to the device you are using.
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post #3314 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Yes, it uses the cinema filter. In fact I also use it for SDR since my unit does not fully reach Rec.709 in low lamp mode for the green primary without it. And by doing it this way the only difference between SDR and HDR is the iris setting for the JVC.
I sold my Vertex because it caused too many HDMI lockups on my JVC.

Yes, that would be nice. But with my Logitech Harmony and a small tool I wrote for controlling the JVC and Radiance via laptop and wifi, I don't have much trouble.
Mine also doesn't reach green in non-filter modes, so I was wondering what to do about that; was considering leaving it a little short. If reference colourspace is linear with the filter I'll use that instead. Thanks for the info!

I've considered writing similar, probably on a little RaspberryPI or similar - but a lot of the reason I use a Lumagen is I just don't have time to hack around with stuff much these days.

For screen control I'll probably end up making macros to do manual screen setting and changing mode to match on the Lumagen. Might be nice to have an easy option to let Auto Aspect control the screen masking though. Probably not as much of a corner-case as you'd think given folk buying Lumagens might well be likely to have electric mask screens etc.
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post #3315 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Mine also doesn't reach green in non-filter modes, so I was wondering what to do about that; was considering leaving it a little short. If reference colourspace is linear with the filter I'll use that instead. Thanks for the info!
If you measure in high lamp mode without filter, you will see, that it reaches the green primary. With chromapure and an i1 Pro 2 it is possible to measure the lamp spectrum. And between low and high lamp mode there is a visible difference.

Quote:
I've considered writing similar, probably on a little RaspberryPI or similar - but a lot of the reason I use a Lumagen is I just don't have time to hack around with stuff much these days.

For screen control I'll probably end up making macros to do manual screen setting and changing mode to match on the Lumagen. Might be nice to have an easy option to let Auto Aspect control the screen masking though. Probably not as much of a corner-case as you'd think given folk buying Lumagens might well be likely to have electric mask screens etc.
Some things for the Radiance are nearly impossible to do with macros: for instance turning HDR profiler on/off or setting an override for MaxCLL which needs some calculations and loops. And it is nicer to see info menus on a different screen.

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post #3316 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Sounds like you need to leave HDR mode alone then.


JVC have lots of discrete codes which aren't on the remote; in the Harmony remote database for the previous X3 / X30 I had there were discrete buttons for USER1...5 and all the other modes. But I just checked the current 7900 Harmony database and it doesn't include anything that isn't on the original remote control.

There is a big list of old codes here:
http://support.jvc.com/consumer/supp...ntrolGuide.pdf
Another here:
http://support.jvc.com/consumer/supp...ote%20Code.pdf

I'd be mighty surprised if one of these codes doesn't have the desired effect, but you'd have to get them into the Harmony. At a push you might find adding the DLA-X30 to your config might allow you to test out the IR codes which are in there - they might work. If they do work it makes it much easier to communicate to Logitech to get them to add the appropriate codes to the device you are using.

Thanks. Maybe I'll try that. Logitech's Harmony system is fairly 'closed' and it's tricky getting it to do what you want. An old adage comes to mind "design a system that any fool could use and only a fool will want to use it".

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post #3317 of 5828 Old 07-23-2018, 11:42 PM
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What is the RGB value of the 1% bar in the pluge test pattern?
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post #3318 of 5828 Old 07-24-2018, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I sold my Vertex because it caused too many HDMI lockups on my JVC.
I run my Vertex off a second output from the Radiance, but leave the output of the Vertex disconnected - it is only driving the JVC serial port. I use an unused 9G output, which works fine (downgrades to 8bpp according to the Vertex display) even when the main 18G is outputting 4k60 4:2:2 12-bit.
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post #3319 of 5828 Old 07-24-2018, 05:14 PM
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Arrow FW Beta 062718

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php...ncepro_updates

Beta 062718
(consolidated 062518 & 062618 updates and removed alterations to letterbox input aspect behavior)
Fix for pillarbox option with NLS settings.
Improvement to power-on input selection and option to delay input selection (only at power on) by 3 seconds in order to get correct color information from some sources (failing case was a DirectTV box).
The delay setting is in the menu under Other: OnOff Setup: Input Select .
Fix for letterbox zoom off/on cases with 1.85,2.2,2.35 input aspects.
Added option to enable sending HDR output flag to display even when using SDR colorspace.
This new option is called HDR Flag and in the menu under Output: CMS's: Colorspace .
Added "menu 0966" command to globally set letterbox zoom on or off.
Please continue giving us your detailed feedback on issues via email at [email protected] .
Update time ~5 minutes @230k from previous firmware
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HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
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post #3320 of 5828 Old 07-24-2018, 10:15 PM
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Seems to me the Lumagen Pro beta is done. Lol. Well, maybe after PIP is finally done. It really is a solid device. SJ
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post #3321 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 03:54 AM
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from a NONE self calibrator ,"just movie geek "user view, I would say the beta can go after:
a well implemented dynamic HDR tone mapping algorithm based on frame-by-frame analysis made by Lumagen

P.S. an a faster acting Auto Aspect Ratio please

But thats just my opion man...the Dude would say
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post #3322 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 04:05 AM
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from a NONE self calibrator ,"just movie geek "user view, I would say the beta can go after:
a well implemented dynamic HDR tone mapping algorithm based on frame-by-frame analysis made by Lumagen

P.S. an a faster acting Auto Aspect Ratio please

But thats just my opion man...the Dude would say
I think if the current features are solid it should leave beta status already.
Otherwise it will never be out of beta.
I'm frankly surprised the beta tag is still on the releases.
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post #3323 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 04:48 AM
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Dynamic HDR, Sharpness, Auto Aspect and BETA is done
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post #3324 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 04:50 AM
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Dynamic HDR, Sharpness, Auto Aspect and BETA is done
Is auto-aspect still "touchy" or is there some other functionality it is missing?
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It still takes quite long until it switches to the correct format/aspect and is thus very annoying sometimes. You would see black bars first and after a while it switches aspects.
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post #3326 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 05:22 AM
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It still takes quite long until it switches to the correct format/aspect and is thus very annoying sometimes. You would see black bars first and after a while it switches aspects.
Hrm... on the 2143 it was annoying the other way in that it was quicker but would often seem to get tripped up and make wrong decisions.

I guess I will find out soon when my masking screen goes up and I'm switching into bluray menus at 2.35:1.
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post #3327 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 05:25 AM
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HDR intensity mapping was never a planned feature and is actually an extra over the features that were originally intended so it is , i would say, actually irrelevant as to whether it's in beta.
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post #3328 of 5828 Old 07-25-2018, 08:48 AM
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HDR intensity mapping was never a planned feature and is actually an extra over the features that were originally intended so it is , i would say, actually irrelevant as to whether it's in beta.
Gordon, I wouldn't go quite that far. HDR intensity mapping is perhaps the primary reason many of us have bought and are using the Radiance Pro, at least those of us with Sony laser projectors! And my understanding is that Lumagen will continue to develop and improve this feature!

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Gordon, I wouldn't go quite that far. HDR intensity mapping is perhaps the primary reason many of us have bought and are using the Radiance Pro, at least those of us with Sony laser projectors! And my understanding is that Lumagen will continue to develop and improve this feature!



that is not what i am saying. I am saying that in the past Lumagen have not said a product is out of beta until the orignal pre-beta launch features have been implemented. Even in basic form. No HDR intensity mapping was ever offered as a potential feature of the product at launch. It just developed and its popularity has knocked back the implementation of other promised features. From my point of view the product has not been a "beta" product for over 18 months. I fully expect them to continue to increase the performance of all facets of the units performance


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post #3330 of 5828 Old 07-26-2018, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
that is not what i am saying. I am saying that in the past Lumagen have not said a product is out of beta until the orignal pre-beta launch features have been implemented. Even in basic form. No HDR intensity mapping was ever offered as a potential feature of the product at launch. It just developed and its popularity has knocked back the implementation of other promised features. From my point of view the product has not been a "beta" product for over 18 months. I fully expect them to continue to increase the performance of all facets of the units performance


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PiP and PoP were prelaunch features that so far have not been implemented. As they are still listed on the website as a future update Lumagen apparently has not given up on implementing them one day and therefore the Pro would have to stay in Beta until then.
The intensity mapping is indeed very important and it was the right decision to push back other things in order to implement IM and other HDR related features and functionality so no complaints from me that we are still in Beta.
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