New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 145 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4321 of 5825 Old 04-08-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikela View Post
Anyone using the Tributaries cable that Jim recommended? If so, are you still having HDMI sync issues?
I'm using the active version of the Titan cables, 12m long to connect the Pro to my projector. I'm having a quite stable connection, never have any issues past the power up stage. On a rare occasion there's a glitch when turning everything on and it hasn't happened for weeks now. I don't even know if it's related to that cable or to the connection between the Pro and the other components.
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post #4322 of 5825 Old 04-08-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by darksets View Post
I'm using the active version of the Titan cables
They have several active versions including fiber and metal...which one do you have?
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post #4323 of 5825 Old 04-08-2019, 07:37 PM
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Just checked the Lumagen site and looks like there is a new firmware:

Beta 020619- Fix for audio loss issue using netlifx. Many improvements to Dynamic Tone Mapping. Added dynamic settings to left arrow pop-up HDR menu. Some other small fixes. Please continue giving us your detailed feedback on issues via email at [email protected] .

Edit: Just downloaded and am trying it out with my Sony 5000 projector. Not sure if it's something in my settings, but now with DTM enabled, even on 1, it is over-brightening everything and it looks terrible. I'll have to do some more testing tomorrow.
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post #4324 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 02:58 AM
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Testing this new software since one week and DTM works fine in my setup.

The new HDR menu is great (arrow left). Everything in one spot and ratio covers the whole nit range.
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post #4325 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikela View Post
They have several active versions including fiber and metal...which one do you have?

I have the metal one. UHDT Titan which is passive up to 10 meters and active 12 and above. I have the active one.
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post #4326 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 05:01 AM
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I've loaded the new firmware 020619 and I have no obvious or otherwise issues to report.
And I'm certainly liking the new menu.
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post #4327 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 05:04 AM
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Do we know what has changed on the latest version of DTM? Anyone have any specific issues that they have found it resolves?
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post #4328 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 05:39 AM
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FW Beta 020619

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
Just checked the Lumagen site and looks like there is a new firmware:

Beta 020619- Fix for audio loss issue using netlifx. Many improvements to Dynamic Tone Mapping. Added dynamic settings to left arrow pop-up HDR menu. Some other small fixes. Please continue giving us your detailed feedback on issues via email at [email protected] .

Edit: Just downloaded and am trying it out with my Sony 5000 projector. Not sure if it's something in my settings, but now with DTM enabled, even on 1, it is over-brightening everything and it looks terrible. I'll have to do some more testing tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobetterblues View Post
I've loaded the new firmware 020619 and I have no obvious or otherwise issues to report.
And I'm certainly liking the new menu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Do we know what has changed on the latest version of DTM? Anyone have any specific issues that they have found it resolves?
I haven't uploaded new FW yet, but am very interested -- especially in FW stability since I have a paid calibration tomorrow morning.
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HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
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post #4329 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Is anyone using a Denon AVR-X3500H with the Pro?

I am experiencing intermittent audio/video blanking that lasts around 10 seconds with multiple sources.

I also have a 50 foot Ruipro hybrid fiber cable in between the pro and the AVR, so was thinking that component may be the cause. I am using an HDMI voltage inserter on the cable at the Pro output, because without it the video signal flashes repeatedly. I attempted to move the HDMI voltage inserter to the sink end (the AVR input) yesterday, but that caused constant audio issues.

I haven’t made any changes to the AVR settings in an attempt to mitigate this issue.

Any input/advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
I am probably duplicating other replies, but I recommend getting rid of the voltage-inserter between the Pro and the RUIPRO. The Pro has plenty of HDMI standby output power to drive the RUIPRO, and the inserter is nothing more than a discontinuity in the HDMI transmission lines. The discontinuity it creates may be the cause of your dropouts, and in any case is a bad idea for a 4k HDMI connection.

I recommend against fiber cables for connections carrying audio since they tend to have more jitter than metal only HDMI cables. I also recommend against such a long cable for audio. Audio is much more sensitive than video for HDMI. If you need to go 50 feet from the Pro for the output carrying audio I recommend the Tributaries UHDT "Titan" all metal cable. I do not have any jitter data on this versus the RUIPRO but I have noticed the HDMI connection locks faster using the UHDT than the RUIPRO. I believe this is in part due to it having less jitter, but might just be it is a clean signal. Either way I prefer the Tributaries Titan, especially for audio connections, while still recommending the RUIPRO as an excellent cable.

It sounds like you pass video through the AVR. I recommend the Pro drive the Projector/TV directly and not through the AVR. I suspect if you send video from the Pro to the TV/projector directly, and audio to the AVR, both using Titan cables, you will improve your reliability. Of course I cannot be certain, but this change in connectivity has resolved dropouts in other systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Thanks Jim.

I will try removing it again, but the two times I have tried to remove the voltage inserter previously, there is constant flashing of the signal on and off. I should probably try different HDMI inputs on the AVR to make it a thorough test.

The reason for testing the other inputs is that Denon has recommended in the past with other AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices.

I want the AVR volume display on my TV and am willing to live with some compromises to achieve that goal.

Mark


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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I wanted to post an update that I solved my problem and was able to remove the HDMI voltage inserter by switching the Ruipro cable to a different input on the AVR, a Denon AVR-X3500H.

As noted above, Denon has recommended in the past with other AVR’s to use the HDMI input that is physically closest to the output to mitigate issues with 4K HDR source devices, so I was using input #7 (CD) since I purchased the AVR, as it was the closest input to the outputs. I was using it with the same Ruipro 50-foot cable and the Lumagen Radiance 2041 without the voltage inserter without issues.

I noted above that I would try the other inputs on the AVR to make the test thorough, and I finally got around to that task, and here are the detailed results. First I removed the voltage inserter from the source end (output of the Lumagen Radiance Pro) of the cable.

HDMI Input #1 (CBL/SAT)
This is farthest input (in physical distance) from the HDMI outputs on the receiver. This input resulted in a blanking video signal about every minute, and intermittent audio interruptions that occurred around every 10 seconds or so. The audio interruptions were very brief (milliseconds?), but were frequent enough to be annoying.

HDMI Input #2 (DVD)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

HDMI Input #3 (Blu-ray)
This input resulted in no video or audio blanking.

HDMI Input #4 (GAME)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

HDMI Input #5 (MEDIA PLAYER)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

HDMI Input #6 (AUX2)
This input resulted in no picture at all; it never synched. I verified the input was set to use HDMI 6.

HDMI Input #7 (CD)
This input resulted in very frequent video and audio blanking every few seconds.

I don't really see any pattern to the above results, but I am glad I was able to remove the voltage inserter.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
While the major intermittent audio/video blanking noted above has been solved, I have now turned my attention to a smaller, but still annoying problem with a single source.

I have a TiVo Roamio Pro DVR that has fairly frequent (~1-2 minute intervals) but intermittent audio blanking that lasts about 2-3 seconds, as well as occasional video blanking that lasts around 5-7 seconds. This is the only source that exhibits these symptoms, and these symptoms were not present when the same equipment was used with the Radiance 2441. I am assuming there is some minor syncing issue between the Pro and the Denon AVR-X3500H.

While we could point to the 50 foot Ruipro hybrid fiber cable in between the pro and the AVR as the culprit and call it a day, however, I did not experience these issues with the Radiance 2441 in the system. Therefore, I am thinking that Lumagen can fix this, as they have done for other offending source devices. Before I send an email to report this, I thought I would ask here:

Is anyone else using a TiVo Roamio Pro DVR with the Radiance Pro?

The symptoms occur with live TV or recorded content. I haven’t made any changes to the TiVo or AVR settings in an attempt to mitigate this issue, but I don't know what changes I could make anyway.

Thanks.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I always find it interesting to see the complaints about HDMI and picture issues with the Lumagen. I think I can safely say that I change my setup more often than just about anybody here. In the last year I've had at least five different projectors in and out of my room, about 4-5 different disc spinners and a host of streaming devices. I am CONSTANTLY changing things for reviews and evaluations. The amount of times I've ever had an issue getting an image out of my Radiance I could probably count on one hand and still have fingers to spare. So the idea that people have all these issues always causes me to scratch my head.

Jim has said time and again that the edge rates out of the Lumagen are on the high side, meaning that cable selection and length are very important. Some seem to just ignore this or try and argue it out. I use 6-foot long certified Monoprice HDMI cables for all input sources and I've NEVER had an issue, even hot plugging in and out. I have a 25-foot run to the projector mount, which I use a Monoprice for as well, no issues at all for the last 8 or so years I've used it. I constantly go to clients homes that are using 3-foot cables, off brand cables, splitters for this and that and a multitude of other things that are far from simple installations. I can't count how many times I've swapped some high priced cable with a simple $6 Monoprice and things work just fine from there.

In the projection world there are a couple projectors that have pretty sketchy HDMI input designs. The JVC RSx00 series and the Sony 5000ES come to mind directly. These show up a lot in client's homes and seem to be more sensitive to just about everything. I've had the Sony 885 and 995 in my room and didn't have ANY HDMI issues, so I think it is something that Sony have addressed in future designs. I had the RS600 for nearly 9 months with no issues, I always used HDMI input 1 and reliability was excellent for me. I haven't had to resort to reducing the inputs or outputs to 9 Ghz or using older microcode. I have an NX9 at the house now, haven't had a single HDMI hiccup yet. I'll be testing some BenQ projectors in the upcoming weeks and will see how they fare, although I didn't have any issues with last year's BenQ (HT9050).

So in the end I typically suggest MINIMUM 6-foot length Monoprice CERTIFIED HDMI cables for connecting sources. These are pretty much bullet proof and cost a fraction of the price of most cables. For runs greater than 25 ft, use the Monoprice fiber cables (Models 21566 thru 21569) or the Ruipro Ultra Slims (10, 15 and 30 meter designs). Take the rest out, plug the Radiance to the display with NOTHING connected to it to start. Make sure it synchs with the projector just fine on its own. Then plug each source in one at a time and make sure they work fine. I've done this numerous times for my clients and with the right cables I rarely ever have an issue. For clients that buy their Lumagen directly from me, I setup the Lumagen during the installation or if I'm not going to be the one that is there for the setup/calibration, I setup the Lumagen before I ship it to them, delivering plug and play results with little issue. I always suggest what they use for cabling before hand to eliminate as many prospective issues as possible, and I rarely get calls from clients needing help or having connectivity issues.
Hi Kris,

While I don't have major HDMI sync issues like some users, I did have a problem syncing when I installed the Radiance Pro, which has since been resolved. I do have one remaining issue with one source device that did not exist until the Radiance 2441 was replaced with the Radiance Pro 4446. My TiVo Roamio Pro device exhibits frequent intermittent audio skips, and less intermittent video blanking. I have quoted the posts above related to the issue if you care to read about it. I did nothing but swap the Lumagen devices and the issue manifested, so the Pro caused it. That said, whether or not the Pro is the problem or the source device is now suddenly misbehaving is up for debate.

Since this is in the family room system, and we don't watch TV that much there, troubleshooting has taken me a long time, as you can see from the date ranges of the posts above . The only change made to the Radiance Pro settings in an attempt to fix this issue was setting the TiVo input on the Radiance Pro to limit it to 1080p as recommended by Jim to another user for solving another problem with a different (but also older) HDMI source device. I am using source direct (essentially) from the TiVo, as I have it set to send 480i, 720p, and 1080i resolutions to benefit from the Radiance Pro's de-interlacing and scaling prowess. I did think about changing the audio setting from bitstream to PCM in the TiVo, but have not tried that yet.

I just can't get past the fact that this all worked fine with the Radiance 2441 in the same exact system with the same exact cables. If I watched more TV in the family room, I would be more inclined to troubleshoot and probably not have let this fester so long.

Mark

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post #4330 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Do we know what has changed on the latest version of DTM? Anyone have any specific issues that they have found it resolves?
Blade Runner credits are more stable but still one instance of flicker. Levels above 5 can clip high brightness detail severely (see "Starship Troopers Tristar Logo").
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post #4331 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 09:19 AM
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Hello folks,
Does the radiance pro have a passthrough mode that disables all processing?
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post #4332 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
Hello folks,
Does the radiance pro have a passthrough mode that disables all processing?

No.


You can create a memory that has no alterations but there is no "bypass" as it were. It all goes through the main processing pipeline.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
Just checked the Lumagen site and looks like there is a new firmware:

Beta 020619- Fix for audio loss issue using netlifx. Many improvements to Dynamic Tone Mapping. Added dynamic settings to left arrow pop-up HDR menu. Some other small fixes. Please continue giving us your detailed feedback on issues via email at

Edit: Just downloaded and am trying it out with my Sony 5000 projector. Not sure if it's something in my settings, but now with DTM enabled, even on 1, it is over-brightening everything and it looks terrible. I'll have to do some more testing tomorrow.
I have tried the Beta 020619 and like you I am seeing an overly bright picture with HDR sources from both my Oppo and my Apple TV. Gone back to 011119 and all seems ok again, I will email Lumagen support with my findings but my system doesn't seem to like the new firmware. Panasonic FZ802 OLED is my screen
Cheers
Brian
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post #4334 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bferbrache View Post
I have tried the Beta 020619 and like you I am seeing an overly bright picture with HDR sources from both my Oppo and my Apple TV. Gone back to 011119 and all seems ok again, I will email Lumagen support with my findings but my system doesn't seem to like the new firmware. Panasonic FZ802 OLED is my screen
Cheers
Brian
I'm going to do some more testing tonight, but will probably roll back. To do that, do you just download and apply the previous firmware or are there special steps for the roll back?

Hopefully I'll get some other 5000 owners to chime in - I know there are a handful out there.

The wife is having a movie night on Thursday so I better have it looking good by the, current version or previous.
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
I'm going to do some more testing tonight, but will probably roll back. To do that, do you just download and apply the previous firmware or are there special steps for the roll back?

Hopefully I'll get some other 5000 owners to chime in - I know there are a handful out there.

The wife is having a movie night on Thursday so I better have it looking good by the, current version or previous.
I just loaded the previous firmware and it is looking good again, seems a bit strange if others are using the new firmware without issue, I'm sure Lumagen will come back to me with some suggestions
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post #4336 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
No.


You can create a memory that has no alterations but there is no "bypass" as it were. It all goes through the main processing pipeline.


So how much i put lag would be added if i have zero alterations enabled? I’m assuming it has to add some.


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In regards to the dynamic tone mapping and the HDR intensity mapping, do you use both together?

For example, I have the dynamic mapping on 8, and the intensity mapping on 700 nits. Is that correct? Or are you supposed to turn off the intensity mapping when using the dynamic mapping?

Thanks for any advice!

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post #4338 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobetterblues View Post
I've loaded the new firmware 020619 and I have no obvious or otherwise issues to report.
And I'm certainly liking the new menu.
What display are you using ? I have folks coming for a movie tonight, so I think I'll download the new firmware after they leave ! Then I can test it with a 4K Blu-ray I just watched.
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post #4339 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bferbrache View Post
I just loaded the previous firmware and it is looking good again, seems a bit strange if others are using the new firmware without issue, I'm sure Lumagen will come back to me with some suggestions
It's a bug in the firmware. I started with normal looking video but when I changed the gamma into LUT from SDR to HDR it got too bright, as expected, but setting it back to SDR did not fix it anymore. It stayed bright till I rebooted. So skip this firmware. It needs fixing.
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post #4340 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post
It's a bug in the firmware. I started with normal looking video but when I changed the gamma into LUT from SDR to HDR it got too bright, as expected, but setting it back to SDR did not fix it anymore. It stayed bright till I rebooted. So skip this firmware. It needs fixing.
Sounds like it might only be an issue then if you need to have HDR gamma in your LUT?
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post #4341 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bferbrache View Post
I just loaded the previous firmware and it is looking good again, seems a bit strange if others are using the new firmware without issue, I'm sure Lumagen will come back to me with some suggestions
Interesting. I thought it was just my imagination when the picture seemed brighter to me. I reduced the laser level of my 995 to 80 from 100 for HDR, thinking that the new firmware is so much better that I don't need all that light. It seems there's more to it...
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post #4342 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by darksets View Post
Interesting. I thought it was just my imagination when the picture seemed brighter to me. I reduced the laser level of my 995 to 80 from 100 for HDR, thinking that the new firmware is so much better that I don't need all that light. It seems there's more to it...
The difference in light between 100 and 80 is only about 10% at the most, so you should be seeing barely any difference as is.
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post #4343 of 5825 Old 04-09-2019, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The difference in light between 100 and 80 is only about 10% at the most, so you should be seeing barely any difference as is.
True, the difference is small. But it's definitely noticeable. I can switch between the two with a button push and it's obvious. With the previous firmware 100 looked better but with this one I prefer 80. It's still a very early impression though.
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post #4344 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 03:37 AM
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I too have the bright screen issue and i sent Pat and Jim pictures plus my config yesterday afternoon. They have found the issue and a fix is on the way.
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post #4345 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Which seems to imply it will never be particularly user friendly. Even without one of those in my chain, I have HDMI issues. Oh well.
You see, another firmware release with problems.

This thing eats up time! Therefore it keeps constantly getting better.
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post #4346 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post
It's a bug in the firmware. I started with normal looking video but when I changed the gamma into LUT from SDR to HDR it got too bright, as expected, but setting it back to SDR did not fix it anymore. It stayed bright till I rebooted. So skip this firmware. It needs fixing.
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Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
I too have the bright screen issue and i sent Pat and Jim pictures plus my config yesterday afternoon. They have found the issue and a fix is on the way.
Thanks for the info and confirmation.
I have a professional calibration starting in 45 min.
Holding off on FW update then.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
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post #4347 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
Thanks for the info and confirmation.
I have a professional calibration starting in 45 min.
Holding off on FW update then.
I’m not an expert, but I believe the base calibration shouldn’t be impacted with changes in IM/DTM. However, that might depend on how the calibration is done. I think Kris Deering told me something like that when he did my setup... SJ
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post #4348 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
I’m not an expert, but I believe the base calibration shouldn’t be impacted with changes in IM/DTM. However, that might depend on how the calibration is done. I think Kris Deering told me something like that when he did my setup... SJ
Thanks. I think that is likely true.
Didn't want to insert something potentially buggy right before a calibration.
Just saw a post about Kris Deering Colorado JVC and Sony projector shoot out. Sounds cool

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
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post #4349 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
Thanks for the info and confirmation.
I have a professional calibration starting in 45 min.
Holding off on FW update then.
Who is doing your calibration?
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post #4350 of 5825 Old 04-10-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Who is doing your calibration?
Mike
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HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
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