New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 154 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4591 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 04:41 AM
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I am using Plex on a Nvidia Shield and I assume that since the Shield "sees" my 4K projector, it upscales all 1080P material to 4K - and as of this moment, there is no way to disable that function. I want the Lumagen to do the upscaling.

This may be a really silly question, but since the Lumagen sits between the projector and the Shield, is there a way for the Lumagen to make the Shield "think" it is looking at a 1080P display, and therefore, not upscale?
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post #4592 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 04:52 AM
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With the standard (non-Pro) Radiance models, the video EDID can be customized to report yes or no for all resolutions.

I don’t think this capability is on the Pro.

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post #4593 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 07:59 AM
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Warping

Jim:

Please add me to the list of those very interested in "Warping".
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post #4594 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 08:03 AM
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Warping + 1!
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post #4595 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I am using Plex on a Nvidia Shield and I assume that since the Shield "sees" my 4K projector, it upscales all 1080P material to 4K - and as of this moment, there is no way to disable that function. I want the Lumagen to do the upscaling.

This may be a really silly question, but since the Lumagen sits between the projector and the Shield, is there a way for the Lumagen to make the Shield "think" it is looking at a 1080P display, and therefore, not upscale?
Yes, I have 2 seperate input memories fir a couple of devices like this.

Under Input-Options-Hdmi Setup-Video EDID set Video Limit to 1080p from Max. Hopefully this will make the Shield detect it can only send 1080p and stop it doing the upscaling. This works for my Panasonic UHD Player when playing Bluray versus UHD Discs.
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post #4596 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrowe View Post
Yes, I have 2 seperate input memories fir a couple of devices like this.

Under Input-Options-Hdmi Setup-Video EDID set Video Limit to 1080p from Max. Hopefully this will make the Shield detect it can only send 1080p and stop it doing the upscaling. This works for my Panasonic UHD Player when playing Bluray versus UHD Discs.
Thanks.

But what occurs when the Nvidia is trying to play a real 4K/HDR movie?
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post #4597 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 02:13 PM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

He is saying to use two separate memories on the input.

One with the setting to limit to 1080p enabled (MEMA for example).

Another at the default setting so the Shield will send the full resolution (MEMB for example).

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post #4598 of 5834 Old 05-07-2019, 03:28 PM
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Got it. With no understanding of the architecture of the Lumagen, I did not understand. That will definitely solve the problem. Thanks.
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post #4599 of 5834 Old 05-08-2019, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Speaking about the Shield, do you know of a way to have the Shield/Plex combination NOT up convert 1080P to 4K (I want the Lumagen to do that)? I have tried two other Shield apps (Kodi and MrMC) that will pass 1080P but the UI of those are too clunky for my use.
Never used it, but as mentioned already, I don't think Plex can do that.
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post #4600 of 5834 Old 05-08-2019, 06:13 AM
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Got it. With no understanding of the architecture of the Lumagen, I did not understand. That will definitely solve the problem. Thanks.


I can definitely be confusing. Check out the link in my signature for the link to a post about my “set up guide” which may help you out, because there are some tips in there.


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post #4601 of 5834 Old 05-08-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by scrowe View Post
Yes, I have 2 seperate input memories fir a couple of devices like this.

Under Input-Options-Hdmi Setup-Video EDID set Video Limit to 1080p from Max. Hopefully this will make the Shield detect it can only send 1080p and stop it doing the upscaling. This works for my Panasonic UHD Player when playing Bluray versus UHD Discs.
I am interested in this but with a slightly different set of parameters, is it possible to set the Video Limit to 1080i? This could be very helpful when watching HD channels on my SKY and Virgin TV boxes in the UK. At the moment I have to manually select the output when watching 4K broadcasts and then back to 1080i broadcasts.

I couldn't see 1080i as an option in the Lumagen menu

Thanks

Brian
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post #4602 of 5834 Old 05-08-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bferbrache View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrowe View Post
Yes, I have 2 seperate input memories fir a couple of devices like this.

Under Input-Options-Hdmi Setup-Video EDID set Video Limit to 1080p from Max. Hopefully this will make the Shield detect it can only send 1080p and stop it doing the upscaling. This works for my Panasonic UHD Player when playing Bluray versus UHD Discs.
I am interested in this but with a slightly different set of parameters, is it possible to set the Video Limit to 1080i? This could be very helpful when watching HD channels on my SKY and Virgin TV boxes in the UK. At the moment I have to manually select the output when watching 4K broadcasts and then back to 1080i broadcasts.

I couldn't see 1080i as an option in the Lumagen menu

Thanks

Brian
No the only option is 1080p, you could email Lumagen support and request it, especially as 1080i is the native output from most Satellite/Cable delivery.

I am assuming what you want to do is allow the Lumagen to do the deinterlacing to 1080p rather than let the satellite/cable box do it, which would be my preference.

In my case with SkyQ in the UK, I find significant artifacts with manually setting the box to output 1080i, and letting Lumagen do the deinterlacing. It's either an inherent problem with the Lumagen on 50Hz source material, or a problem unique to my SkyQ video chain as I haven't seen anyone else report similar issues. I believe Lumagen are a bit stuck because without the ability to replicate it or provide them with access to the native video source, they are limited. Therefore I set my Sky box to 1080p and manually switch to UHD for 4K content, as it doesn't have an auto-resolution mode.
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post #4603 of 5834 Old 05-08-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by scrowe View Post
No the only option is 1080p, you could email Lumagen support and request it, especially as 1080i is the native output from most Satellite/Cable delivery.

I am assuming what you want to do is allow the Lumagen to do the deinterlacing to 1080p rather than let the satellite/cable box do it, which would be my preference.

In my case with SkyQ in the UK, I find significant artifacts with manually setting the box to output 1080i, and letting Lumagen do the deinterlacing. It's either an inherent problem with the Lumagen on 50Hz source material, or a problem unique to my SkyQ video chain as I haven't seen anyone else report similar issues. I believe Lumagen are a bit stuck because without the ability to replicate it or provide them with access to the native video source, they are limited. Therefore I set my Sky box to 1080p and manually switch to UHD for 4K content, as it doesn't have an auto-resolution mode.
Thank you very much for the reply - like you I set my Sky Q and Virgin V6 to 1080i for most viewing and manually switch to 2160p for 4K viewing.

If I can get the Lumagen to force these boxes to output 1080i for HD viewing by using different memories it will save a lot of time having to manually change the output resolution.

I will contact Lumagen as you suggest to see if this is possible

Thanks again

Brian
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post #4604 of 5834 Old 05-09-2019, 01:31 AM
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Thank you very much for the reply - like you I set my Sky Q and Virgin V6 to 1080i for most viewing and manually switch to 2160p for 4K viewing.

If I can get the Lumagen to force these boxes to output 1080i for HD viewing by using different memories it will save a lot of time having to manually change the output resolution.

I will contact Lumagen as you suggest to see if this is possible

Thanks again

Brian
If you are watching SkyQ on 1080i native, and assuming you are outputting to display at 1080p or 2160p do you see artifacts? My main viewing is US drama via SkyQ, and what I see is background motion, which gets a comb/jaggy effect on slight movement. A common scenario is you will have a character mainly in the foreground, and a character in the background may make a movement, and you get the artifacts around the motion. I haven't looked at this any closer for about a year, but I didn't have this issue with the firmware before the deinterlacing improvements awhile back.
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post #4605 of 5834 Old 05-09-2019, 04:02 AM
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Thank you very much for the reply - like you I set my Sky Q and Virgin V6 to 1080i for most viewing and manually switch to 2160p for 4K viewing.

If I can get the Lumagen to force these boxes to output 1080i for HD viewing by using different memories it will save a lot of time having to manually change the output resolution.

I will contact Lumagen as you suggest to see if this is possible

Thanks again

Brian
If you are watching SkyQ on 1080i native, and assuming you are outputting to display at 1080p or 2160p do you see artifacts? My main viewing is US drama via SkyQ, and what I see is background motion, which gets a comb/jaggy effect on slight movement. A common scenario is you will have a character mainly in the foreground, and a character in the background may make a movement, and you get the artifacts around the motion. I haven't looked at this any closer for about a year, but I didn't have this issue with the firmware before the deinterlacing improvements awhile back.
Thanks for the reply, I have not noticed the issue with the TV shows you mentioned but I will take a closer look later on and report back.

I am currently outputting 1080i from the sky Q box and the lumagen is outputting 2160p to my Panasonic OLED.

I have tried the EDID limit on the Radiance to force the sky q box to output 1080p but the limit is ignored. Using the EDID to force the Virgin V6 box to output 1080p works well.

I have been in touch with Lumagen support and they don't seem to think that it is possible to force the sky Q to output 1080i or p with the EDID limit.

I've asked if they can introduce EDID limit of 1080i as an option for the Virgin V6 box but not heard anything back yet

Thanks

Brian
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post #4606 of 5834 Old 05-09-2019, 08:03 AM
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I could be wrong here, but I didn't think the de-interlacer in the Pro is anywhere near as comprehensive as was in non-pro units courtesy of the Gennum VXP chip. "Back in the day" there was a lot of work put into deinterlacing by specialist companies, trying to deal with all the special cases (like interlaced scrolling text over video with 3:2 pulldown, discerning the difference between interlaced video and interlaced film - film mode vs video mode detection, etc), and these days I don't think it gets as much attention.

If someone wants to compare how these things fare, probably the best source to use to try and form an objective opinion of the behaviour would be the demo / test discs from the then-competing HQV scaler / deinterlacer chips. I've got the PAL and NTSC versions somewhere around here, though I've lost interest in interlaced video these days.
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post #4607 of 5834 Old 05-09-2019, 10:42 AM
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Thank you very much for the reply - like you I set my Sky Q and Virgin V6 to 1080i for most viewing and manually switch to 2160p for 4K viewing.

If I can get the Lumagen to force these boxes to output 1080i for HD viewing by using different memories it will save a lot of time having to manually change the output resolution.

I will contact Lumagen as you suggest to see if this is possible

Thanks again

Brian
If you are watching SkyQ on 1080i native, and assuming you are outputting to display at 1080p or 2160p do you see artifacts? My main viewing is US drama via SkyQ, and what I see is background motion, which gets a comb/jaggy effect on slight movement. A common scenario is you will have a character mainly in the foreground, and a character in the background may make a movement, and you get the artifacts around the motion. I haven't looked at this any closer for about a year, but I didn't have this issue with the firmware before the deinterlacing improvements awhile back.
Thanks for the reply, I have not noticed the issue with the TV shows you mentioned but I will take a closer look later on and report back.

I am currently outputting 1080i from the sky Q box and the lumagen is outputting 2160p to my Panasonic OLED.

I have tried the EDID limit on the Radiance to force the sky q box to output 1080p but the limit is ignored. Using the EDID to force the Virgin V6 box to output 1080p works well.

I have been in touch with Lumagen support and they don't seem to think that it is possible to force the sky Q to output 1080i or p with the EDID limit.

I've asked if they can introduce EDID limit of 1080i as an option for the Virgin V6 box but not heard anything back yet

Thanks

Brian
Yes if I power up with my Sky HD Mem and try to switch box from 1080p to 2160p it says my TV won't support it. If I switch to my Sky UHD Mem it let's me switch to 2160p. On next power up on Sky HD Mem it ignores this and box is still at 2160p.This implies the SkyQ only checks EDID on manual res switch, not on a power up from standby.
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post #4608 of 5834 Old 05-09-2019, 10:48 AM
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I could be wrong here, but I didn't think the de-interlacer in the Pro is anywhere near as comprehensive as was in non-pro units courtesy of the Gennum VXP chip. "Back in the day" there was a lot of work put into deinterlacing by specialist companies, trying to deal with all the special cases (like interlaced scrolling text over video with 3:2 pulldown, discerning the difference between interlaced video and interlaced film - film mode vs video mode detection, etc), and these days I don't think it gets as much attention.

If someone wants to compare how these things fare, probably the best source to use to try and form an objective opinion of the behaviour would be the demo / test discs from the then-competing HQV scaler / deinterlacer chips. I've got the PAL and NTSC versions somewhere around here, though I've lost interest in interlaced video these days.
I've never properly understood whether cheap cable/satellite boxes that output 1080i native, but can be forced to 1080p do anything but double the lines, as opposed to an expensive chip and software magically recreating the missing picture information. I want to believe my multi-thousand pound Lumagan Pro does it better than my £200 Sky box.
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Never hurts to ask, and if we get more people requesting a horizontal barrel and pin-cushion feature we will consider adding it to the to-do list.

+1
A friend, who bought my old Radiance pro and is not an active member here due to the language barrier, asked me to put his 'name' on the list.

He also would like to see some form of noise reduction/edge enhancement, since it is already in the menu.
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post #4610 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 02:21 AM
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To be added to the to-do list we would need a number of people to request this feature be added. We would then need to investigate if the Vertical-Keystone-Correction logic could serve as a foundation for horizontal pin-cushion and barrel distortion correction (I believe this is likely true), and how much additional logic and time would be needed to implement it.

Never hurts to ask, and if we get more people requesting a horizontal barrel and pin-cushion feature we will consider adding it to the to-do list.
I'll be hopefully installing a Paladin DCR lens next week, so if barrel distortion correction is likely to improve the use of that lens, then please add my +1 to that feature request also.
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post #4611 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 02:55 AM
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Never hurts to ask, and if we get more people requesting a horizontal barrel and pin-cushion feature we will consider adding it to the to-do list.
Jim, the response is quite significant, hopefully enough to add it to the to-list. I think once you incorporate this feature this will go viral in the

DCR/ISCO threads.
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post #4612 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 05:16 AM
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Count me in. Using a Paladic DCR on minimum throw (1.4). It would be awesome.
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post #4613 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 05:59 AM
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Count me in. Using a Paladic DCR on minimum throw (1.4). It would be awesome.
NICE!!! Once Jim confirms we need to bring this to the attention of DCR owners in the Paladin DCR thread....
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post #4614 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 09:34 AM
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Never hurts to ask, and if we get more people requesting a horizontal barrel and pin-cushion feature we will consider adding it to the to-do list.
I have a DCR at right around minimum throw as well, so count me in for barrel distortion correction!
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post #4615 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 10:09 AM
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I have a DCR at right around minimum throw as well, so count me in for barrel distortion correction!
Same here. So +1 !
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I have a DCR at right around minimum throw as well, so count me in for barrel distortion correction!
As someone who is curious about a DCR lens, how big of a problem is this? From reading on the site they made it seem like its really not and the distortion gets lost in the screen frame 1.5" anyways?
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post #4617 of 5834 Old 05-10-2019, 11:00 AM
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As someone who is curious about a DCR lens, how big of a problem is this? From reading on the site they made it seem like its really not and the distortion gets lost in the screen frame 1.5" anyways?
It's not a big problem at all. The barrel distortion, even at minimum throw, is very subtle. Currently I just zoom it into the velvet border around the screen and am none the wiser.

Of course, if I have the option of getting that minimal distortion corrected for, I'd go with that for sure!
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It's not a big problem at all. The barrel distortion, even at minimum throw, is very subtle. Currently I just zoom it into the velvet border around the screen and am none the wiser.

Of course, if I have the option of getting that minimal distortion corrected for, I'd go with that for sure!
Have folk actually tested what this kind of correction would do for the image quality?
It sounds like it would be a very small scale factor across a large proportion of the screen, which is usually bad news. Think how much of a panning folk give keystone adjustment, this is very similar.

Just thinking aloud here, might a better option not be to have a pixel perfect barrel distortion crop function, that allowed you to crop pixels around the edge of the screen in the shape of the barrel distortion, while leaving the image unaltered? SO you'd overscan your image to the point where the whole screen had pixels projected onto it, and then crop the areas that significantly extended onto the frame?
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Have folk actually tested what this kind of correction would do for the image quality?
It sounds like it would be a very small scale factor across a large proportion of the screen, which is usually bad news. Think how much of a panning folk give keystone adjustment, this is very similar.

Just thinking aloud here, might a better option not be to have a pixel perfect barrel distortion crop function, that allowed you to crop pixels around the edge of the screen in the shape of the barrel distortion, while leaving the image unaltered? SO you'd overscan your image to the point where the whole screen had pixels projected onto it, and then crop the areas that significantly extended onto the frame?
That's a good point, I know I haven't tested it because that capability doesn't exist anywhere in my equipment stack currently...not sure if something like MadVR can do it currently to even get an idea what the end result would be.

Of course if this sort of correction caused more harm than good, I wouldn't use it . You're second solution is what I do currently, using the projector's built in masking to cover up the few pixels on the edges which are distorted.
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post #4620 of 5834 Old 05-12-2019, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Same here. So +1 !

I'll throw my hat in the ring too as a DCR owner like Craig!
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