New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 155 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4621 of 4883 Old 05-13-2019, 10:54 PM
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I’d still like to see further tweaks to DTM. Later firmware seems to introduce some colorization in highlight/gradient areas that I did not notice earlier.

We need detailed documentation with test examples for dialing in DTM settings and the interrelationship between the settings.

I’d like to see Lumagen endeavor to add a BYOM auto calibration feature (bring your own meter) as the number of qualified calibrators are vanishingly small. A bare bones computer app (if necessary) for meter connection, computations, pattern control, and text report. No fancy GUI or graphics/charts. Perhaps it could use measured values for better baseline DTM settings as well.


Separately, I wonder what deleterious impact there is on resolution using shrink, keystone, and the requested pincushion features...
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post #4622 of 4883 Old 05-13-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I’d still like to see further tweaks to DTM.
Yes, I also think that some further tweaks would be good for DTM.
Here is an example from The Magnificent Seven, where I can see some extensive clipping compared to IM.
It doesn't really matter how I set the parameters. The clipping remains.

With IM parameters it was possible to give the transfer function an s-shape. My attempts at measuring DTM (Dynamic 1, forced maxCLL) somehow show that it is no longer an s-shape. Maybe there a connection to the clipping in some scenes.
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post #4623 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 05:36 AM
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Does anybody know how to set default values in DTM? There is no more reset caption in the low/high menu.
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post #4624 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 05:46 AM
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Bring up the on screen DTM menu (left button on the remote) then cycle through the ON/OFF/'set to defaul't options, remembering to OK to make it stick.
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post #4625 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Have folk actually tested what this kind of correction would do for the image quality?
It sounds like it would be a very small scale factor across a large proportion of the screen, which is usually bad news. Think how much of a panning folk give keystone adjustment, this is very similar.

Just thinking aloud here, might a better option not be to have a pixel perfect barrel distortion crop function, that allowed you to crop pixels around the edge of the screen in the shape of the barrel distortion, while leaving the image unaltered? SO you'd overscan your image to the point where the whole screen had pixels projected onto it, and then crop the areas that significantly extended onto the frame?
That would work for me. With an electric screen, my masking isn't as dark as with most fixed screens.
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post #4626 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Yes, I also think that some further tweaks would be good for DTM.
Here is an example from The Magnificent Seven, where I can see some extensive clipping compared to IM.
It doesn't really matter how I set the parameters. The clipping remains.

With IM parameters it was possible to give the transfer function an s-shape. My attempts at measuring DTM (Dynamic 1, forced maxCLL) somehow show that it is no longer an s-shape. Maybe there a connection to the clipping in some scenes.


If that is the scene in the magnificent seven that is supposed to be a good example of both dark and bright areas (specular highlight in an overall low-APL scene) would you please advise the chapter and or timestamp?

That is one of the pieces of information missing in my “guide”.

Thanks.

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post #4627 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
If that is the scene in the magnificent seven that is supposed to be a good example of both dark and bright areas (specular highlight in an overall low-APL scene) would you please advise the chapter and or timestamp?

That is one of the pieces of information missing in my “guide”.

Thanks.

Mark


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Thank you for your continued efforts -- and comments in my HT thread today.
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post #4628 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
If that is the scene in the magnificent seven that is supposed to be a good example of both dark and bright areas (specular highlight in an overall low-APL scene) would you please advise the chapter and or timestamp?
No, I wouldn't say that it is a good example. It is just a scene where I think DTM has an issue.
This is chapter 3 / 12:01. According to the live profiler there is 1113 maxCLL and 1752 MaxY.

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post #4629 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
No, I wouldn't say that it is a good example. It is just a scene where I think DTM has an issue.
This is chapter 3 / 12:01. According to the live profiler there is 1113 maxCLL and 1752 MaxY.


Thanks.

Do you know of a better example?


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post #4630 of 4883 Old 05-14-2019, 02:09 PM
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I think there are a few good scenes in 'Phantastic Beasts' (with flashes and such). But I would have search for the time codes.
We could also take a look at the epic madVR screenshot thread for some good examples.
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post #4631 of 4883 Old 05-15-2019, 09:56 AM
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The Magnificent Seven 4K BR seems like a movie shot in a stylized " blown out " look to begin with. It's an odd looking disc at times without DTM.
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post #4632 of 4883 Old 05-16-2019, 04:36 AM
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Thanks guys. I saw the reference to Magnificent 7 at some point, but as stated, there may be better examples nowadays.

I will just incorporate these comments into the recommended material section.

Edit:

I have the time stamp for the Magnificent 7 scene at 16:00. This was one of two examples provided to set the MaxLight (Display Max Light) to reflect the display maximum light output capability in the CMS setup: MENU → Output → CMSs → [CMS] → HDR Mapping

The two program examples mentioned in the Radiance Pro manual on page 18, for adjusting Intensity Mapping Controls are The Magnificent 7 and Mad Max Fury Road. It also notes about making the initial setup on this same page, so I always assumed these were the two sources to use, at the time the manual was written.

Based on this information, here is what I have in my guide in the HDR IM CMS Setup section:

4) Make the adjustment while viewing (paused) HDR source material. Choose a scene with both dark and bright areas or a scene with a very bright object; see the HDR Content Examples section for further details on the scene examples below.
a. Example 1: The Magnificent 7™ (2016) at 16:00 has both dark and bright areas.
b. Example 2: Mad Max Fury Road (2015) at 38:13 has a very bright object (a muzzle flash).

The Radiance Pro training presentation Jim posted specifically mentioned Mad Max and The Martian scenes for two examples to use in adjusting HDR IM parameters (no mention of setting MaxLight). Basically, I am looking for what (if any) specific program material scenes would be best for the initial setting of MaxLight in the CMS Setup.

Any input/comments appreciated.

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post #4633 of 4883 Old 05-16-2019, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Thanks.

Do you know of a better example?


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You might like some of the “Magic Blue Light” scenes in Smurfs 2, especially the outdoor night ones
Also Life of Pi, night water scene

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post #4634 of 4883 Old 05-17-2019, 07:39 PM
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Last edited by Garth Jacobsen; 05-17-2019 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Hi all was wondering if anyone had suggestions for using auto aspect ratio. Not sure if I should use image or hdmi plus image. Also what to do with sticky aspect override, NLS and letterbox zoom...
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post #4635 of 4883 Old 05-17-2019, 08:24 PM
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You press the “alt” button when you have the abbreviated menu up to switch between high and low parameters, as noted on page 73 of the guide linked in my signature.




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post #4636 of 4883 Old 05-17-2019, 08:58 PM
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You press the “alt” button when you have the abbreviated menu up to switch between high and low parameters, as noted on page 73 of the guide linked in my signature.




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Thanks!

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post #4637 of 4883 Old 05-18-2019, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Here is an example from The Magnificent Seven, where I can see some extensive clipping compared to IM.
It doesn't really matter how I set the parameters. The clipping remains.

I found out, that setting Display Max Light to 1800 removes the clipping in that scene...
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post #4638 of 4883 Old 05-22-2019, 02:09 PM
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For Radiance Pro owner, I think this news is cool 🙂

Zappiti as release a new firmware for there HDR media player that allow a source direct (no scaling and no processing) mode. So everything is send native (ex. 1080p or DVD) to the Radiance than the Radiance can apply is own scaling and processing.

Small media box never have good processing and scaling so I think this will made a difference in my setup... Cant wait to test that new feature.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...86633?page=274
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post #4639 of 4883 Old 05-22-2019, 03:55 PM
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For Radiance Pro owner, I think this news is cool 🙂

Zappiti as release a new firmware for there HDR media player that allow a source direct (no scaling and no processing) mode. So everything is send native (ex. 1080p or DVD) to the Radiance than the Radiance can apply is own scaling and processing.

Small media box never have good processing and scaling so I think this will made a difference in my setup... Cant wait to test that new feature.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...86633?page=274
The Zidoo and Dune players have had that as an option for quite some time.
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post #4640 of 4883 Old 05-23-2019, 03:31 AM
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The Zidoo and Dune players have had that as an option for quite some time.
The Dune most certainly does and the Nvidia Shiled does as long as you don't use Plex. You can use either MrMC or Kodi but the UI of both of those is much more "clunky" than Plex - at least to me. But with the Lumagen's ability to "fake out" the Shield/Plex combination, I will continue to use it.
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post #4641 of 4883 Old 05-23-2019, 04:32 AM
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The Dune most certainly does and the Nvidia Shiled does as long as you don't use Plex. You can use either MrMC or Kodi but the UI of both of those is much more "clunky" than Plex - at least to me. But with the Lumagen's ability to "fake out" the Shield/Plex combination, I will continue to use it.


How do you configure the Pro so the Shield TV Plex app will send native resolution and frame rate? I don’t remember hearing about this.

Thanks.

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post #4642 of 4883 Old 05-23-2019, 10:24 AM
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How do you configure the Pro so the Shield TV Plex app will send native resolution and frame rate? I don’t remember hearing about this.

Thanks.

Mark
See post #4595 in this thread. This technique "fakes out" the Shield/Plex so it thinks it "sees" a 1080P projector so sends 1080P as 1080P. Of course, to have it send 4K, another "pseudo input" on the Lumagen is required. Since I know if I will be watching in either 4K or 1080P this works for me. My wife won't care so if she selects the input that is actually 4K, then the Shield/Plex will upscale. (But she couldn't tell the difference nor would she care).
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post #4643 of 4883 Old 05-23-2019, 02:06 PM
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See post #4595 in this thread. This technique "fakes out" the Shield/Plex so it thinks it "sees" a 1080P projector so sends 1080P as 1080P. Of course, to have it send 4K, another "pseudo input" on the Lumagen is required. Since I know if I will be watching in either 4K or 1080P this works for me. My wife won't care so if she selects the input that is actually 4K, then the Shield/Plex will upscale. (But she couldn't tell the difference nor would she care).


Without looking at the post, I understand. So you are limiting one of the virtual inputs to 1080p, which is a great idea. If only I wasn’t out of inputs. Do I use all my inputs? Yes Could I eliminate one source device? Probably.

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post #4644 of 4883 Old 05-24-2019, 02:40 AM
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my setup: windows 10 htpc > lumagen pro > 4k uhd hdr projector (benq lk953st, pixel shift).

what's the best way to play the my hdr files that i've ripped from my 4k/uhd/hdr blu-ray library?

do i disable hdr in windows and let my lumagen handle the hdr tone mapping? if so, how do i pass hdr to the lumagen with hdr turned off in windows? i tried using potplayer/madvr and setting madvr to pass thru hdr (with windows hdr turned off) but that didn't seem to work... also, fwiw, i also have a vertex if that will help the cause.

any help would be greatly appreciated!
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post #4645 of 4883 Old 05-24-2019, 05:19 AM
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my setup: windows 10 htpc > lumagen pro > 4k uhd hdr projector (benq lk953st, pixel shift).

what's the best way to play the my hdr files that i've ripped from my 4k/uhd/hdr blu-ray library?

do i disable hdr in windows and let my lumagen handle the hdr tone mapping? if so, how do i pass hdr to the lumagen with hdr turned off in windows? i tried using potplayer/madvr and setting madvr to pass thru hdr (with windows hdr turned off) but that didn't seem to work... also, fwiw, i also have a vertex if that will help the cause.

any help would be greatly appreciated!
If you want to use the Lumagen tone mapping, you need to pass the video stream with the HDR metadata untouched so the Pro sees it as a true HDR signal. How you do that with MadVR is probably more a question for the MadVR thread.
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post #4646 of 4883 Old 05-24-2019, 06:34 AM
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If you want to use the Lumagen tone mapping, you need to pass the video stream with the HDR metadata untouched so the Pro sees it as a true HDR signal. How you do that with MadVR is probably more a question for the MadVR thread.
Interesting. I was under the impression that DTM on MadVR was excellent and someone is building a MadVR dedicated product to compete with the Lumagen????
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post #4647 of 4883 Old 05-24-2019, 07:41 AM
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Interesting. I was under the impression that DTM on MadVR was excellent and someone is building a MadVR dedicated product to compete with the Lumagen????
Yep, Shi is working on a standalone unit.

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post #4648 of 4883 Old 05-24-2019, 07:58 AM
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If you want to use the Lumagen tone mapping, you need to pass the video stream with the HDR metadata untouched so the Pro sees it as a true HDR signal. How you do that with MadVR is probably more a question for the MadVR thread.
not really asking how i accomplish this using madvr (as i mentioned i tried and couldn't get it to work), and more interested in knowing what others are doing to accomplish this (pass the video stream with hdr metadata untouched to the pro), those with htpc + lumagen pro... or is something that most (all?) htpc + lumagen pro owners don't bother doing, trying to pass the metadata from their pc to their lumagen? if that's the case, how are most folks using an htpc + lumagen pro combination?
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post #4649 of 4883 Old 05-25-2019, 12:07 PM
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Do you have to send the Pro back to Lumagen to add the 18ghz cards?

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post #4650 of 4883 Old 05-25-2019, 12:24 PM
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Do you have to send the Pro back to Lumagen to add the 18ghz cards?
I did them all myself but with the older/larger enclosure. You can certainly find out by calling them.... SJ
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