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post #4891 of 5842 Old 07-23-2019, 12:39 AM
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Off-topic in this thread, but where do you have pricing info from for MadVR Envy?
So far as I'm aware there isn't any indication yet as to pricing for it.

At least I suppose they will try to set a pricing policy to have room for competition. Anyway, we'll have to wait for some oficial info.
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post #4892 of 5842 Old 07-23-2019, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Off-topic in this thread, but where do you have pricing info from for MadVR Envy?
So far as I'm aware there isn't any indication yet as to pricing for it.

At least I suppose they will try to set a pricing policy to have room for competition. Anyway, we'll have to wait for some oficial info.
MadVR Envy is not out yet and when it will be nobody really know. The Radiance Pro is a product available today that’s getting better everyday and will be even better by the time MadVr Envy will be out. I value a lot the fact that the Radiance IS available now 🙂

Getting out with a new product is really hard and it’s a long road. Ask Lumagen or any other AV company. A new product need a lot of testing and modifications before being ready for prime time.

My guess is MadVR will be a great product but it is not out yet and will not be for a while. It will take months before the first units and after that a beta phase, the official launch and then we will have to wait for first bugs to be iron out. All this will take time.

Also, it will not be free. It will be a high end product with a high end price.

Everybody is free to wait but the wait will be long and during that time, I will use my Radiance everyday.

Also, it’s hard to compare the Envy to the Radiance because we dont know what exactly the Envy will be able to do and the Radiance is also a moving target, getting better everyday with new firmwares.
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post #4893 of 5842 Old 07-23-2019, 06:21 AM
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MadVR Envy is not out yet and when it will be nobody really know. The Radiance Pro is a product available today that’s getting better everyday and will be even better by the time MadVr Envy will be out. I value a lot the fact that the Radiance IS available now 🙂

Getting out with a new product is really hard and it’s a long road. Ask Lumagen or any other AV company. A new product need a lot of testing and modifications before being ready for prime time.

My guess is MadVR will be a great product but it is not out yet and will not be for a while. It will take months before the first units and after that a beta phase, the official launch and then we will have to wait for first bugs to be iron out. All this will take time.

Also, it will not be free. It will be a high end product with a high end price.

Everybody is free to wait but the wait will be long and during that time, I will use my Radiance everyday.

Also, it’s hard to compare the Envy to the Radiance because we dont know what exactly the Envy will be able to do and the Radiance is also a moving target, getting better everyday with new firmwares.
Yes, yes, and yes !! It is a long way from a piece of software running in a PC to a production product running in a custom enclosure, Beta tested, released, documented, supported. Then finding and supporting other distribution channels. Will it happen? Probably. Will they have long term viability? Who knows.

I really do wish them well. I've started a small company (not audio) and it was way tougher (and way more costly) than I expected. It turned out successful but I ate a gigantic hole in my savings/networth before I turned the corner.
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post #4894 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 11:27 AM
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First: The next release is likely going to be posted by Monday. We have a candidate release out to a few people. This may be the public release, or if we get an even better FPGA synthesis we might swap in the better FPGA.

Now on to the fun stuff:

We believe this release significantly raises the bar on Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). We hope you agree. I saw a post from Kris Deering where he had kind words to say about the improvements. That post was actually based on a few internal releases ago. That release had most of the improvements, but we have made further improvements since then. Many thanks to Jon Thompson, Kris Deering, and Craig Rounds who have been instrumental in helping us find and evaluate critical scenes.

We definitely stepped on a "slippery slope" on this release. Every step of the way it was "we should do this improvement" but that then lead to "if we do that improvement, we should do this other improvement" and so on. We plan on increasing precision throughout the pipeline soon, but while we were working on the DTM we decided to do the pipeline precision enhancement work for the linear Gamma portion, where DTM is done. This turned into a major FPGA code rewrite. However this has given us a huge boost in precision near black, and this shows as a improved image detail near black.

This release has the new and improved blend algorithm between the low and high control curves. This alone significantly improved the DTM image.

We also significantly improved the precision of the tone mapping table generation code. So not only is the quality and precision of the blend between the control curves better, but the control curves themselves are improved.

We have also addressed all the scenes people sent us to review. On the couple that were a bit over-saturated Patrick worked his usual magic and was able to improve the over-saturated pixels without having to reduce the average light output for other portions of the scenes.

The detail near black is pretty awesome – and it was already excellent before. And the highly saturated colors in some scenes now also look excellent. Of course, my comments on quality improvements are my opinion. Let us know what you think once you have had a chance to evaluate this new release.

======

People often ask me how to set up tone mapping and specifically DTM. To make sure this is as simple as possible, all my evaluation and tuning for this DTM release was done with default HDR parameters. The only adjustment I made was to set the CMS1 Display Max Light to the appropriate value. So, while I know the tweaks out there will want to play with settings, you get great DTM performance with the factory settings.

Part of the tone mapping setup question is how to set CMS1->HDR Mapping->Display Max. This still varies based on personal preference, but for projectors, I have arrived at setting it at measured nits times 4-ish. For example with the Lumagen Demo Theater RS4500 at medium laser, on a 14 foot diagonal 2.40 aspect Stewart Studiotek 130, I get 85 nits and have the Display Max Light set to 350.

Note that measured nits should be measured as 1% of the screen area using a probe with 1 degree of arc. This is the professional way to measure. If you calculate 1% of your screen area, and even if your probe is not 1 degree, you should get a pretty good approximation. Unfortunately this does mean using a professional quality probe such as the Colorimetry Research CR-100 (what I use) or the Kline K10A.

=====

I recently updated the Radiance Pro setup slide set, and I just completed a new revision of the Radiance Pro manual. I have attached copies of these to this post. We should have the new manual revision posted on the Lumagen website by early next week.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Radiance_Pro_Manual_071819 with cover.pdf (960.0 KB, 68 views)
File Type: pdf Radiance Pro Training 061419 - web.pdf (533.7 KB, 76 views)

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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post #4895 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
First: The next release is likely going to be posted by Monday. We have a candidate release out to a few people. This may be the public release, or if we get an even better FPGA synthesis we might swap in the better FPGA.

Now on to the fun stuff:

We believe this release significantly raises the bar on Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). We hope you agree. I saw a post from Kris Deering where he had kind words to say about the improvements. That post was actually based on a few internal releases ago. That release had most of the improvements, but we have made further improvements since then. Many thanks to Jon Thompson, Kris Deering, and Craig Rounds who have been instrumental in helping us find and evaluate critical scenes.

We definitely stepped on a "slippery slope" on this release. Every step of the way it was "we should do this improvement" but that then lead to "if we do that improvement, we should do this other improvement" and so on. We plan on increasing precision throughout the pipeline soon, but while we were working on the DTM we decided to do the pipeline precision enhancement work for the linear Gamma portion, where DTM is done. This turned into a major FPGA code rewrite. However this has given us a huge boost in precision near black, and this shows as a improved image detail near black.

This release has the new and improved blend algorithm between the low and high control curves. This alone significantly improved the DTM image.

We also significantly improved the precision of the tone mapping table generation code. So not only is the quality and precision of the blend between the control curves better, but the control curves themselves are improved.

We have also addressed all the scenes people sent us to review. On the couple that were a bit over-saturated Patrick worked his usual magic and was able to improve the over-saturated pixels without having to reduce the average light output for other portions of the scenes.

The detail near black is pretty awesome – and it was already excellent before. And the highly saturated colors in some scenes now also look excellent. Of course, my comments on quality improvements are my opinion. Let us know what you think once you have had a chance to evaluate this new release.

======

People often ask me how to set up tone mapping and specifically DTM. To make sure this is as simple as possible, all my evaluation and tuning for this DTM release was done with default HDR parameters. The only adjustment I made was to set the CMS1 Display Max Light to the appropriate value. So, while I know the tweaks out there will want to play with settings, you get great DTM performance with the factory settings.

Part of the tone mapping setup question is how to set CMS1->HDR Mapping->Display Max. This still varies based on personal preference, but for projectors, I have arrived at setting it at measured nits times 4-ish. For example with the Lumagen Demo Theater RS4500 at medium laser, on a 14 foot diagonal 2.40 aspect Stewart Studiotek 130, I get 85 nits and have the Display Max Light set to 350.

Note that measured nits should be measured as 1% of the screen area using a probe with 1 degree of arc. This is the professional way to measure. If you calculate 1% of your screen area, and even if your probe is not 1 degree, you should get a pretty good approximation. Unfortunately this does mean using a professional quality probe such as the Colorimetry Research CR-100 (what I use) or the Kline K10A.

=====

I recently updated the Radiance Pro setup slide set, and I just completed a new revision of the Radiance Pro manual. I have attached copies of these to this post. We should have the new manual revision posted on the Lumagen website by early next week.
Great to hear - thanks Jim/Patrick
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post #4896 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 11:56 AM
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Great to hear - thanks Jim/Patrick
I 2nd that - great news Jim !

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
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post #4897 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
We believe this release significantly raises the bar on Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). We hope you agree. I saw a post from Kris Deering where he had kind words to say about the improvements. That post was actually based on a few internal releases ago. That release had most of the improvements, but we have made further improvements since then. Many thanks to Jon Thompson, Kris Deering, and Craig Rounds who have been instrumental in helping us find and evaluate critical scenes.
I spent last weekend at the Lumagen Demo Theater (thank you, what an incredible weekend), and Jim showed off some of the particularly difficult scenes that were used to improve DTM. The improvements are significant. Not quite as significant as the improvements I made to the audio side of things Sunday night of course.

Adam Pelz ,Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
JBL Master ARCOS Calibrator, CEDIA Designer, Home Acoustics Alliance Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video, Level III Trinnov Altitude Calibrator
Mercenary Calibrator for Manufacturers, Integrators and System Owners
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post #4898 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
We believe this release significantly raises the bar on Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). We hope you agree. I saw a post from Kris Deering where he had kind words to say about the improvements. That post was actually based on a few internal releases ago. That release had most of the improvements, but we have made further improvements since then. Many thanks to Jon Thompson, Kris Deering, and Craig Rounds who have been instrumental in helping us find and evaluate critical scenes.
I spent last weekend at the Lumagen Demo Theater (thank you, what an incredible weekend), and Jim showed off some of the particularly difficult scenes that were used to improve DTM. The improvements are significant. Not quite as significant as the improvements I made to the audio side of things Sunday night of course. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
This is terrific news and very exciting as a two week old owner!

Could you pass on details of any of the test scenes as I would love to do a comparison on release?
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post #4899 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I spent last weekend at the Lumagen Demo Theater (thank you, what an incredible weekend), and Jim showed off some of the particularly difficult scenes that were used to improve DTM. The improvements are significant. Not quite as significant as the improvements I made to the audio side of things Sunday night of course.
Adam:

Yes you did and thanks a bunch. Huge audio improvement versus my remotely run Trinnov Altitude only audio calibration (which was already a big improvement in sound). Since Adam was on site he was able to take a rather spikie sub response and make it very smooth using the Altitude's Parametric EQ (PEQ). He even time aligned the subs to the main speakers.

Adam then did two-channel listening tests and was able to significantly improve two-channel performance, again using the Altitude's PEQ capability. While my two-channel was good before, after this part of the calibration I mentioned that I could now compare two-channel audio quality to my previous two-channel system that included Watt Puppies, and used Jeff Roland balanced pre-amp and power-amp.

I am now a firm believer in on-site audio (and of course video) tuning. Adam did a great job on the audio, and he is a recommended Lumagen video calibrator as well.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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post #4900 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
First: The next release is likely going to be posted by Monday. We have a candidate release out to a few people. This may be the public release, or if we get an even better FPGA synthesis we might swap in the better FPGA.

Now on to the fun stuff:

We believe this release significantly raises the bar on Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). We hope you agree. I saw a post from Kris Deering where he had kind words to say about the improvements. That post was actually based on a few internal releases ago. That release had most of the improvements, but we have made further improvements since then. Many thanks to Jon Thompson, Kris Deering, and Craig Rounds who have been instrumental in helping us find and evaluate critical scenes.

We definitely stepped on a "slippery slope" on this release. Every step of the way it was "we should do this improvement" but that then lead to "if we do that improvement, we should do this other improvement" and so on. We plan on increasing precision throughout the pipeline soon, but while we were working on the DTM we decided to do the pipeline precision enhancement work for the linear Gamma portion, where DTM is done. This turned into a major FPGA code rewrite. However this has given us a huge boost in precision near black, and this shows as a improved image detail near black.

This release has the new and improved blend algorithm between the low and high control curves. This alone significantly improved the DTM image.

We also significantly improved the precision of the tone mapping table generation code. So not only is the quality and precision of the blend between the control curves better, but the control curves themselves are improved.

We have also addressed all the scenes people sent us to review. On the couple that were a bit over-saturated Patrick worked his usual magic and was able to improve the over-saturated pixels without having to reduce the average light output for other portions of the scenes.

The detail near black is pretty awesome – and it was already excellent before. And the highly saturated colors in some scenes now also look excellent. Of course, my comments on quality improvements are my opinion. Let us know what you think once you have had a chance to evaluate this new release.

======

People often ask me how to set up tone mapping and specifically DTM. To make sure this is as simple as possible, all my evaluation and tuning for this DTM release was done with default HDR parameters. The only adjustment I made was to set the CMS1 Display Max Light to the appropriate value. So, while I know the tweaks out there will want to play with settings, you get great DTM performance with the factory settings.

Part of the tone mapping setup question is how to set CMS1->HDR Mapping->Display Max. This still varies based on personal preference, but for projectors, I have arrived at setting it at measured nits times 4-ish. For example with the Lumagen Demo Theater RS4500 at medium laser, on a 14 foot diagonal 2.40 aspect Stewart Studiotek 130, I get 85 nits and have the Display Max Light set to 350.

Note that measured nits should be measured as 1% of the screen area using a probe with 1 degree of arc. This is the professional way to measure. If you calculate 1% of your screen area, and even if your probe is not 1 degree, you should get a pretty good approximation. Unfortunately this does mean using a professional quality probe such as the Colorimetry Research CR-100 (what I use) or the Kline K10A.

=====

I recently updated the Radiance Pro setup slide set, and I just completed a new revision of the Radiance Pro manual. I have attached copies of these to this post. We should have the new manual revision posted on the Lumagen website by early next week.
Thanks for all the great work; I am looking forward to the results!

Kevin Voecks
Acoustic Technologies
HARMAN Luxury Audio Group
Revel Founder
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post #4901 of 5842 Old 07-25-2019, 01:58 PM
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This new update news is quite exciting. Craig (Rounds) will be at my home on August 1st to calibrate everything and, I assume, install this most recent update. Since I have the same video system (almost) as Jim (Radiance, RS4500, Panamorph, but smaller screen with less gain), I expect to be blown away.

If the improvement is as significant as I hope, I have a friend who then may be a prospect for a new Lumagen as well.
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post #4902 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
Question, if all we were to use is 4k SDR 2020 from the Lumagen with DTM would the 18Gbps outputs be necessary? What kind of data rates would be likely be used?
For HDR sources, most require an 18 GHz input on the Pro. There are some exceptions that work with a 9 GHz input for 4k24 HDR sources (Kaleidescape Strato, Panasonic UB900 and likely UB9000, Oppo 203). We recommend 18 GHz inputs for HDR sources, but you can choose either 18 GHz or 9 GHz for non-HDR sources since the material is compressed 8-bit and so even at 4k60 using 9 GHz 4:2:0 at 8-bit is enough.

======

For Radiance Pro outputs, I actually recommend 9 GHz outputs to customers, when they are not stuck on having 18 GHz output just because. Here's why:

The 9 GHz outputs have slower edge rates than the 18 GHz outputs. This is easier on what I refer to as "marginal HDMI input designs." We have seen some projectors that work with the 9 GHz output at 9 GHz, but *not* with the 18 GHz output running at 9 GHz. The only difference in this case is the output edge rate, and perhaps slightly different output EQ. This is an issue either in the projector's input PCB layout, or an issue in the HDMI input chip, or both (assuming a good HDMI cable). Interestingly TVs have better HDMI inputs than most projectors. The TVs we have tested all work well at 18 GHz.

Even if your projector has a good 18 GHz input (our RS4500 for example), it will almost certainly lock on to a 9 GHz signal faster than a 18 GHz signal.

For output at 4k24, there is no difference in the output data between 9 GHz and 18 GHz output cards, for our recommended 4:2:2 at 12-bit output mode. Zero. Both output card types use 12-bit 4:2:2. So you cannot see a difference between a 18 GHz output card and a 9 GHz output card for 4k24 movies and other 24 Hertz programs.

For SDR sources outputting at 4k60, since the SDR source is compressed 8-bit to start, with the Pro's excellent output dither which takes the 12-bit pipeline (which is up-sampled from the 8 bit source) and dithers it back down to 8-bit, in my opinion, there is no chance you would see any difference between the 9 and 18 GHz outputs, even doing an A to B comparison.

That leaves 10-bit HDR10 outputting at 4k60 in the Lumagen recommended "HDR output in a SDR container." There is currently one 4k60 HDR movie that I am aware of. So we tested by outputting 4k24 HDR movies at 4k60 and compared the 8-bit 9 GHz 4:2:0 output from the Pro to the 12-bit 4:2:2 4k60 output from the Pro. I can't see a difference even on tough scenes. It used to be on a very few scenes there was a very small visible difference, but we improved the Radiance Pro output dither until there is IMO no visible difference for these. I have challenged a few technical video folks to prove me wrong and so far no takers, and this is for A to B comparisons. Since I have not evaluated all possible content I can only say than I have not found a difference. Since you would not be doing an A to B comparison, but rather watching video, I am very confident you would never see an issue caused by the output being 8-bit dithered rather than 12-bit. You might see content compression related issue, but these are not due to the Pro's output dither.

Another advantage of the dual 9 GHz output, is that both outputs in a 424X can carry both audio and video. We have seen a number of audio processors that apparently do not correctly implement all HDMI audio interrupts. So these products depend on the video changing to know when the audio has changed. With an audio only output the video does not change. We have worked hard to "kick" the audio processors awake when the Pro detects and audio change, but for some audio processors the only reliable work-around to their issue is to enable both audio and video on the output of the Pro that is connected to their input. With the 9 GHz output card in a 424X, you can do this, but with the 18 GHz output in the 424X, only one output can have both audio and video.
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post #4903 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 05:10 AM
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Question Prior professional calibration okay with new FW update?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
First: The next release is likely going to be posted by Monday. We have a candidate release out to a few people. This may be the public release, or if we get an even better FPGA synthesis we might swap in the better FPGA.

Now on to the fun stuff:

We believe this release significantly raises the bar on Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM). We hope you agree. I saw a post from Kris Deering where he had kind words to say about the improvements. That post was actually based on a few internal releases ago. That release had most of the improvements, but we have made further improvements since then. Many thanks to Jon Thompson, Kris Deering, and Craig Rounds who have been instrumental in helping us find and evaluate critical scenes.

We definitely stepped on a "slippery slope" on this release. Every step of the way it was "we should do this improvement" but that then lead to "if we do that improvement, we should do this other improvement" and so on. We plan on increasing precision throughout the pipeline soon, but while we were working on the DTM we decided to do the pipeline precision enhancement work for the linear Gamma portion, where DTM is done. This turned into a major FPGA code rewrite. However this has given us a huge boost in precision near black, and this shows as a improved image detail near black.

This release has the new and improved blend algorithm between the low and high control curves. This alone significantly improved the DTM image.

We also significantly improved the precision of the tone mapping table generation code. So not only is the quality and precision of the blend between the control curves better, but the control curves themselves are improved.

We have also addressed all the scenes people sent us to review. On the couple that were a bit over-saturated Patrick worked his usual magic and was able to improve the over-saturated pixels without having to reduce the average light output for other portions of the scenes.

The detail near black is pretty awesome – and it was already excellent before. And the highly saturated colors in some scenes now also look excellent. Of course, my comments on quality improvements are my opinion. Let us know what you think once you have had a chance to evaluate this new release.

======

People often ask me how to set up tone mapping and specifically DTM. To make sure this is as simple as possible, all my evaluation and tuning for this DTM release was done with default HDR parameters. The only adjustment I made was to set the CMS1 Display Max Light to the appropriate value. So, while I know the tweaks out there will want to play with settings, you get great DTM performance with the factory settings.

Part of the tone mapping setup question is how to set CMS1->HDR Mapping->Display Max. This still varies based on personal preference, but for projectors, I have arrived at setting it at measured nits times 4-ish. For example with the Lumagen Demo Theater RS4500 at medium laser, on a 14 foot diagonal 2.40 aspect Stewart Studiotek 130, I get 85 nits and have the Display Max Light set to 350.

Note that measured nits should be measured as 1% of the screen area using a probe with 1 degree of arc. This is the professional way to measure. If you calculate 1% of your screen area, and even if your probe is not 1 degree, you should get a pretty good approximation. Unfortunately this does mean using a professional quality probe such as the Colorimetry Research CR-100 (what I use) or the Kline K10A.

=====

I recently updated the Radiance Pro setup slide set, and I just completed a new revision of the Radiance Pro manual. I have attached copies of these to this post. We should have the new manual revision posted on the Lumagen website by early next week.
This may be a dumb question, but if I have had my Lumagen Radiance Pro fairly recently professionally calibrated - a few months ago - will this new FW update (and series of itterative updates) "break" that calibration?
Or will the original calibration still be full functional and these updates will optimize within that calibration -- sort of an interpolation?
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HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
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post #4904 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 05:14 AM
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This may be a dumb question, but if I have had my Lumagen Radiance Pro fairly recently professionally calibrated - a few months ago - will this new FW update (and series of itterative updates) "break" that calibration?

Or will the original calibration still be full functional and these updates will optimize within that calibration -- sort of an interpolation?


Exactly think the same +1


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post #4905 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 06:08 AM
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Great News Jim,
I plan a movie night with few other home theater geeks on Monday evening CET, wich is 9h + Portland time.
what time you usually put the updates online ?
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post #4906 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
This may be a dumb question, but if I have had my Lumagen Radiance Pro fairly recently professionally calibrated - a few months ago - will this new FW update (and series of itterative updates) "break" that calibration?
Or will the original calibration still be full functional and these updates will optimize within that calibration -- sort of an interpolation?
I was told it does not. Unless something has changed recently. SJ
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post #4907 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 06:55 AM
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Display Max Setting

After the software release, I will have Dallas Dingle of Supercalibrations install it. I do have a question on the max display setting. I have a 2.35 aspect ration screen, but watch most things at 1.78. When I want to watch a film at 2.35, I zoom the lens on my Sony 885 projector; this obviously reduces the light output. So should we measure the nits at both 1.78 and 2.35 and then multiply those amounts by 4? We would then set the default using the 1.78 setting, and then adjust for the lower setting when watching something at 2.35.
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post #4908 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Z View Post
After the software release, I will have Dallas Dingle of Supercalibrations install it. I do have a question on the max display setting. I have a 2.35 aspect ration screen, but watch most things at 1.78. When I want to watch a film at 2.35, I zoom the lens on my Sony 885 projector; this obviously reduces the light output. So should we measure the nits at both 1.78 and 2.35 and then multiply those amounts by 4? We would then set the default using the 1.78 setting, and then adjust for the lower setting when watching something at 2.35.
To really to it right you'd probably want to match the brightness for the two modes (via control of the laser level in the Sony).
If you're not wanting to do that (maybe you like big movies darker!) then you could set up two memories in the Lumagen and have different max display light settings for the both.
If neither of those appeal you could always just go for something somewhere in the middle.

Note that if you're doing 3DLUT correction and you have 2 modes with different laser levels you might want to have 2 separate 3DLUTs as the white balance can shift when changing laser level.
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post #4909 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
This may be a dumb question, but if I have had my Lumagen Radiance Pro fairly recently professionally calibrated - a few months ago - will this new FW update (and series of itterative updates) "break" that calibration?
Or will the original calibration still be full functional and these updates will optimize within that calibration -- sort of an interpolation?
If the base calibration was done properly for the previous DTM, it will work fine with this one as well. The baseline did not change, just the settings in the Lumagen itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Z View Post
After the software release, I will have Dallas Dingle of Supercalibrations install it. I do have a question on the max display setting. I have a 2.35 aspect ration screen, but watch most things at 1.78. When I want to watch a film at 2.35, I zoom the lens on my Sony 885 projector; this obviously reduces the light output. So should we measure the nits at both 1.78 and 2.35 and then multiply those amounts by 4? We would then set the default using the 1.78 setting, and then adjust for the lower setting when watching something at 2.35.
I would do two separate memories. Memory A for 16x9 with the tone mapping setup properly for the light output and Memory B for 2.35 (with the aspect ratio changed properly in Styles) with another calibration for the other zoom position.
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post #4910 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Adam:

Yes you did and thanks a bunch. Huge audio improvement versus my remotely run Trinnov Altitude only audio calibration (which was already a big improvement in sound). Since Adam was on site he was able to take a rather spikie sub response and make it very smooth using the Altitude's Parametric EQ (PEQ). He even time aligned the subs to the main speakers.

Adam then did two-channel listening tests and was able to significantly improve two-channel performance, again using the Altitude's PEQ capability. While my two-channel was good before, after this part of the calibration I mentioned that I could now compare two-channel audio quality to my previous two-channel system that included Watt Puppies, and used Jeff Roland balanced pre-amp and power-amp.

I am now a firm believer in on-site audio (and of course video) tuning. Adam did a great job on the audio, and he is a recommended Lumagen video calibrator as well.
Good to know! Ken Whitcomb did a phenomenal job setting up my Sony VW5000 and Radiance Pro Dec 2017. However, my theatre renovation/upgrade starts late next week - will take awhile - will include moving projector back a few feet, adding a Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, and enclosing the projector with a cooling system as well - so will need some video touchup. Will be setting up Adam to do his magic for my Trinnov Altitude 32 and audio system so may as well have him tweak the video at the same time! GREAT!

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post #4911 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Good to know! Ken Whitcomb did a phenomenal job setting up my Sony VW5000 and Radiance Pro Dec 2017. However, my theatre renovation/upgrade starts late next week - will take awhile - will include moving projector back a few feet, adding a Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, and enclosing the projector with a cooling system as well - so will need some video touchup. Will be setting up Adam to do his magic for my Trinnov Altitude 32 and audio system so may as well have him tweak the video at the same time! GREAT!
Audio is still my primary passion, so although I am willing and able, Ken will probably do a better job, with a more critical eye on the video.
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post #4912 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 10:30 PM
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A couple comments on updating to the upcoming DTM enhancement release:

- The update does not over-write or change your configuration.

- You do not need any re-calibration if you already have a good calibration.

- You should be able to leave the Display Max Light (in CMS1->HDR Mapping) the same.

- You should be able to use your current HDR parameters. However, you might want to set the parameters to default and start tweaking again if you are so inclined since the curves are slightly different with this upcoming release, but not by much so your current settings should be fine. I believe the differences should only improve your image without any change in parameters.

- Even though the update does not change your configuration, the probability is minuscule, but not zero, that the update could go way wrong. I recommend always downloading your configuration to a PC (remember to save it to a file after downloading it) before doing an update using the config reader here: http://lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=utilities. Make sure to use the latest Rev 1.90 of the config reader so it works with the Pro (this is the same revision that always has been used with the Pro).

- While Pat prefers to do a normal update, I often prefer to do a Boot Mode Update. For the Boot Mode Update you set up to update as normal (COM Port, and BAUD Rate = 230K), but pull and re-inset power to the Pro and (leaving the Pro off) start the update within 10 seconds. The reason I like Boot Mode Update is there is no chance HDMI interrupts or other processor functions might somehow interfere with the update since the only thing running is the boot loader. The reason Pat likes the normal update method is that it has had more testing. However, I have not had any issues doing Boot Mode Updates, so I think it is safe and a good option for doing updates. Then again I often just do normal updates since it is quicker if only the software has changed and the update uses the same FPGA as the update being replaced.

- If an update fails to complete, or shows errors, then you must do a Boot Mode Update since the update might have only partially completed and left the code corrupted. We have had a few cases of an incomplete update preventing the unit from booting correctly and preventing the unit from updating correctly using a normal update.
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post #4913 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Great News Jim,
I plan a movie night with few other home theater geeks on Monday evening CET, wich is 9h + Portland time.
what time you usually put the updates online ?
email me at support at Lumagen and I can send you the test release in case we do not post the public release early enough for you on Monday.

There is also a chance it will be posted on our website by Sunday.

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post #4914 of 5842 Old 07-26-2019, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Audio is still my primary passion, so although I am willing and able, Ken will probably do a better job, with a more critical eye on the video.
Adam, as always your honesty and willingness to share your expertise is so much appreciated.
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post #4915 of 5842 Old 07-28-2019, 03:31 PM
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Hope that today we can download the new update


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post #4916 of 5842 Old 07-29-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riddle View Post
I still don't know what to buy, MadVR ENVY can be very interesting solution for an interesting price. But Lumanagen Radiance PRO have currently very good support but at a higher price. I think i will have to wait for some comparison.
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Off-topic in this thread, but where do you have pricing info from for MadVR Envy?
So far as I'm aware there isn't any indication yet as to pricing for it.
Pricing has not been posted anywhere. For MadVR to do its thing, it has to have an HTPC with a good (expensive) video card. If that is the route MadVR goes, how could that be cheaper than Lumagen using software on a chip?
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post #4917 of 5842 Old 07-29-2019, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Pricing has not been posted anywhere. For MadVR to do its thing, it has to have an HTPC with a good (expensive) video card. If that is the route MadVR goes, how could that be cheaper than Lumagen using software on a chip?
The "HTPC" could be some kind of stripped down Unix box, custom enclosure, and some custom (but still probably expensive) video card. I HAVE to believe that the Envy product will be some less than the Lumagen, else they are in deep weeds before they leave the gate.

But as I have said (way) more than once, hardware costs (and price) notwithstanding, there is the issue of testing, long term support (e.g. distribution of new firmware/software updates), product documentation, customer service, finding new distribution channels and training them, etc, etc, etc. It is way more than making some wonderful software run in a box. Given my experience with "startups", and failures in this industry in particular (even from well known and previously viable companies), I would wait until the Envy is in the field a few years prior to me investing in one.

And, at the end of the day, we still don't know if it will be better than, worse than, or the same performance as the Lumagen.
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post #4918 of 5842 Old 07-29-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Pricing has not been posted anywhere. For MadVR to do its thing, it has to have an HTPC with a good (expensive) video card. If that is the route MadVR goes, how could that be cheaper than Lumagen using software on a chip?
Is Lumagan also analyzing each frame to optimize tonemapping? If so, it would be even more impressive that they can do that with a single chip.
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post #4919 of 5842 Old 07-29-2019, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teejoo View Post
Is Lumagan also analyzing each frame to optimize tonemapping? If so, it would be even more impressive that they can do that with a single chip.
It is either each frame or each scene, but yes!
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post #4920 of 5842 Old 07-29-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The "HTPC" could be some kind of stripped down Unix box, custom enclosure, and some custom (but still probably expensive) video card. I HAVE to believe that the Envy product will be some less than the Lumagen, else they are in deep weeds before they leave the gate.

But as I have said (way) more than once, hardware costs (and price) notwithstanding, there is the issue of testing, long term support (e.g. distribution of new firmware/software updates), product documentation, customer service, finding new distribution channels and training them, etc, etc, etc. It is way more than making some wonderful software run in a box. Given my experience with "startups", and failures in this industry in particular (even from well known and previously viable companies), I would wait until the Envy is in the field a few years prior to me investing in one.

And, at the end of the day, we still don't know if it will be better than, worse than, or the same performance as the Lumagen.
Which would be cheaper a Lumagen that uses an FPGA or a Lumagen that used an HTPC with high end 4K video card? Because that is basically what you are comparing, if MadVR is using a PC.
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