New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 175 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5221 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 07:12 AM
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If using auto aspect I find it best to have the Enable "Sticky Aspect Override" option enabled.. This means if you find yourself watching something with changing aspects you can quickly make it stop checking the auto aspect until you next change inputs or memory (I think maybe input refresh rate changes might also re-enable aspect detection).
Depending on your exact screen setup you might also need to enable digital masking of top and bottom regions for input aspects.

With the above, if you are watching an AR changing movie and don't realise it will change AR. If it does that then you just press what aspect you want to watch the movie in on the Lumagen remote and it will lock to that aspect until one of the above mentioned changes happens.
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post #5222 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 08:29 AM
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Auto Aspect sounds like an interesting feature. But I am having trouble understanding how I, in my situation, might benefit from it.

I am using Control4 in my theater, so when I select, for example, to watch Dish, C4 closes the screen masks and tells the Lumagen to switch to 16x9 OR I might experiment and see what NLS does (We use Dish primarily for regular TV and sports (golf and college football). When I choose to watch a movie, it automatically opens the masks and switches to 2:35. And yes, on occasion, if the movie is 16x9, I need to tell it to switch back to 16x9 OR I will try NLS. When I watch concert videos, I can tell my Alexa to change to 16x9 and the masks close and again it changes to 16x9. OR I might try NLS.

So that I might experiment, how/where does the Lumagen tell me what the proper aspect ratio is?

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post #5223 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
So that I might experiment, how/where does the Lumagen tell me what the proper aspect ratio is?
Hit the OK button 3 times...it displays on the 3rd information screen.
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post #5224 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Interesting.

Lumagen must have changed the enclosure size sometime during the time this product has been on the market. The height of yours is taller than mine and those on his website. Given it is a 4444 with more inputs and outputs than mine would certainly explain the difference, however.
The early Radiance Pro 444X units were housed in a 2U case. The Radiance Pro 424X was designed from the beginning to be in a 1U case. Then for manufacturing reasons we switched to a 1U case for the 444X units.

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post #5225 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Not to sound mean or rude but I’ve asked my clients not to share settings that I’ve done in their setups with others. This is now how I make my living and the level of knowledge I have with the Lumagen and a lot of other things is based on years of work and testing. The fact that most of the defaults in the Lumagen and a lot of the changes you see are based on my testing and feedback with Lumagen speaks volumes to this.

I’m happy to work with any members here on their Lumagen and they can reach out via PM or my website. I’d prefer if the people that paid for my services to get the most from their setup would simply refer those that ask to me. This ensures that others get the best setup for their own home theater and my work and living isn’t undermined. Hope everyone understands.
Kris has been instrumental in providing feedback for our development of the Radiance Pro from the early stages. Even more so for Static and Dynamic Tone Mapping. I am sure part of this is he wants his own theater to have the best imagery possible using his Radiance Pro, but it goes well beyond this. His "product reviewer" mindset means he is constantly finding and providing us with feedback on image quality and scenes for us to look at.

DTM is a long term process of evaluating as much material as possible after *every* proposed DTM change. I cannot overstate how important Kris' feedback is for this process, nor how accurate his feedback is in helping us improve the RadiancePro for all our customers - even me. Kris recently convinced me to raise my "CMS1 Max Light" to balance a bit more for Chroma versus Luma.

I think Kris has every right to ask, and even expect, his customers, to hold the knowledge he imparts to them on Radiance Pro setup and calibration as confidential This includes optimal settings for the Radiance Pro but also internal settings projectors and TVs. All Radiance Pro owners benefit from the STM and DTM enhancements Kris has influenced. Kris is available to help with taking performance to an even higher level. If you can't get him on location, even hiring him for a phone consultation can help you optimize your theater.

Thanks for your support of Lumagen. Kris and others who help with our evaluation and development, such as Jon Thompson and Craig Rounds, and the many owners who have provided feedback and sent us movie timestamps for scenes for us to evaluate, all help provide the Radiance Pro community with the best possible image quality.

Jim Peterson
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post #5226 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Auto Aspect sounds like an interesting feature. But I am having trouble understanding how I, in my situation, might benefit from it.

I am using Control4 in my theater, so when I select, for example, to watch Dish, C4 closes the screen masks and tells the Lumagen to switch to 16x9 OR I might experiment and see what NLS does (We use Dish primarily for regular TV and sports (golf and college football). When I choose to watch a movie, it automatically opens the masks and switches to 2:35. And yes, on occasion, if the movie is 16x9, I need to tell it to switch back to 16x9 OR I will try NLS. When I watch concert videos, I can tell my Alexa to change to 16x9 and the masks close and again it changes to 16x9. OR I might try NLS.

So that I might experiment, how/where does the Lumagen tell me what the proper aspect ratio is?
What is the movie source?

The benefit AA would give you would be that in your movie mode (why limit it to that to be honest, I use it for everything) it would automatically close the masks and switch aspect ratios for you where the content was detected as 16:9 (in fact, it could automatically set the correct masking for 16:9, 1.85:1, 2:1, 2.2:1, 2.35:1 and 2.40:1, assuming you can set varying mask positions in your mask control). You could still choose to override with NLS if you want, though that might need some extra work with your control system (I'm not sure I'd bother, but then I've never seen the appeal of NLS).

I find it really comes into its own with the high quality stuff coming over the streaming services, where you frequently switch from 16:9 menus to content in a variety of ratios. The masking always being correct without any user interaction I just find adds so much to the presentation, it really takes things to the next level (though it has made me really intolerant of incorrect masking). For me it is now one of my favourite Lumagen features.
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post #5227 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mikela View Post
Hit the OK button 3 times...it displays on the 3rd information screen.
I worded the question not properly. I meant to ask how it feeds the correct signal to control4 or directly to my masking system.

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post #5228 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I worded the question not properly. I meant to ask how it feeds the correct signal to control4 or directly to my masking system.
There is an option in the menus to enable output from the serial interface on the Pro anytime an input change happens, including aspect ratio changes in the source material. So the Lumagen effectively shouts out "Aspect ratio of content is now 16:9!" to anyone who knows how to listen.

Your integrator (or you, if you are the integrator!) programs the control system to watch the Lumagen serial output for the indication of the aspect ratio, and then sets up the appropriate "glue logic" in the control system to tell your screen masks to do the right thing (along with anything else you might have that needs to happen, such as projector memory changing, sliding in an anamorphic lens, drawing curtains, moving seat positions, changing audio EQ settings or switching speakers, etc!)
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post #5229 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 01:54 PM
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I just installed the newest firmware update and Craig Rounds "helped me" change all of the necessary parameters. "Helped me" in this case means he told me which buttons on the remote to hit and which numbers to insert as necessary. [And I couldn't help but think how nice an IP interface would be so that he (or other qualified calibrators) could do that all remotely]

Initial impressions: Excellent.

I used Shazam! as my first (and only) test case. The early part of the movie that takes place at night in a car and then in a cave are both dark - the car with no light source as part of the scene and the cave with various light sources. Very much improved. Very much.

What I have concluded, as an aside, is that while switching DTM on and off is fun, (and in this update, "on" seems "brighter" than "off"), the real test is just watching a movie and enjoying the spectacular image that the Lumagen and the associated projector can display. Incredible.
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post #5230 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 01:56 PM
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@jrp - if there is hint as to what areas are likely to need addressing in the settings after this update it would be great if you could post to point us in the general direction - I guess some of the parameters have changed in their effect?
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post #5231 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 02:08 PM
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Does anyone know if there is already a Harmony device that has the direct IR codes for the various aspects, instead of having to do alt+235 for 2.4 etc?
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post #5232 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Yeah completely understand Craig, there would be a lot going on in the Lumagen settings across the board with Kris' full calibration of your set up. If I can hone down my question right to what I was getting at really specifically perhaps. What I was interested in was whether say if you were to compare what Jim himself says about the evolution of the default DTM settings and honing these settings slightly out of the box and noting the adjustments to for their house 4500 (matched up to their screen size and with DCR lens of course). If we compared that to what Kris did with right key DTM settings on yours (of course paying note to your specific screen size) was there that much difference to say Jim's 4500 or say mine?. Given Kris is contributing a lot himself to Jim and helping further refine the DTM software, that's kind of why I'm curious to know if much stands out in the actual DTM settings menu on yours now he's done the calibration (that isn't so much screen size dependent say). Hope that makes sense .


I spent some time with the latest firmware today and thought several samples I looked at were excellent. Solo was noticeably improved in the dark scenes.
There is one of the problems with home theater in general - unless I visit you or Jim ( Jim would be easier - he's one state away ) and see what the end result looks like, and see how it's set up, we are really only guessing a lot of the time. No two projectors / theater environments will be the same. I'll tell you this - I was used to static tone mapping, and while a lot of stuff looked good, I was clipping a lot of material. Not anymore. The picture now has a clarity and looks even more realistic, and there is no clipping. Partially due to the newest DTM, and of course a lot has to do with Kris's calibration. A lot has changed in the 20 months since Chad B last calibrated my projector!! It's a whole new world with a Lumagen.
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post #5233 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 07:28 PM
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Anyone on the latest firmware and a Sony 5000 have an issue where the Lumagen continuously loses sync/black screen and then regains/image comes back. Happens about every 30s. Have not had this issue until I loaded the latest firmware. So far it happens watching Godzilla:King of the Monsters on Kscape Strato and Netflix HDR content thru ATV4K? Haven't really tested beyond that. Thinking of going back to previous FW. I watched Godzilla straight thru on the previous FW without any such issue?

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post #5234 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 08:27 PM
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New firmware looks much better in dtm on rs2000. Dark scenes seem much less overexposed to gamma
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post #5235 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
There is one of the problems with home theater in general - unless I visit you or Jim ( Jim would be easier - he's one state away ) and see what the end result looks like, and see how it's set up, we are really only guessing a lot of the time. No two projectors / theater environments will be the same. I'll tell you this - I was used to static tone mapping, and while a lot of stuff looked good, I was clipping a lot of material. Not anymore. The picture now has a clarity and looks even more realistic, and there is no clipping. Partially due to the newest DTM, and of course a lot has to do with Kris's calibration. A lot has changed in the 20 months since Chad B last calibrated my projector!! It's a whole new world with a Lumagen.



Well yes, I agree Craig totally. I think I was looking for any indication of any of the DTM settings which say Kris paid more attention to in particular given there's a few. I'm always keeping my eye out naturally here for tips and things to try -Jim's ones have been excellent of course. Otherwise, I'd like to think I'm getting a good feel for how to get nice results when looking at content through DTM mode. I've had an extensive look at how display max light and Ratio effect the picture, especially with clipping.


I watched a few scenes from Captain Marvel and Alita yesterday, both looked superb with DTM. The real test was how good the low light scenes in Solo looked, they really looked improved. I ran the same scenes through MadVR DTM and it didn't quite get there when the settings were matched up, still looked a bit too dim.
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post #5236 of 6001 Old 08-18-2019, 10:37 PM
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Since I received my Radiance I watch couples of movies and with the DTM I can now say I really like to watch a HDR movie. My JVC NX7 look spectacular pair with the Radiance Pro.

Before the Pro, I used to always prefer the blu ray version of the movie. Call me crazy but I tough the blu ray has better black and more realistic looking image. Of course I was at the same time impress by the 4K HDR but to my eye there was always something wrong. The black seem elevated and the bright as no details. Everything else in the middle was not better and many time look too dim.

Thanks to the Radiance Pro I now have best of both world. I still have the wow factor from a good 4k HDR transfer. But at the same time I keep the best black with lot of details and best bright with lots of details. The image is just outstanding but at the same time still look natural and realistic.

Like you can read, to date I am pretty happy and would recommend the Radiance Pro to all setup that want to be serious about HDR.

The financial investment was big for me but since I think it’s a medium/long term investment, the Radiance will be in my rack longer than my current projector and the one after.

And all that good word is only for one function the DTM. The Radiance can do a lot more like grayscal, gamma and color calibration. And many many other functions.

So now it’s time for me to attack my next goal, calibrate my NX7 with Chromapure and my meter.
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post #5237 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 12:27 AM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post
Since I received my Radiance I watch couples of movies and with the DTM I can now say I really like to watch a HDR movie. My JVC NX7 look spectacular pair with the Radiance Pro.

Before the Pro, I used to always prefer the blu ray version of the movie. Call me crazy but I tough the blu ray has better black and more realistic looking image. Of course I was at the same time impress by the 4K HDR but to my eye there was always something wrong. The black seem elevated and the bright as no details. Everything else in the middle was not better and many time look too dim.

Thanks to the Radiance Pro I now have best of both world. I still have the wow factor from a good 4k HDR transfer. But at the same time I keep the best black with lot of details and best bright with lots of details. The image is just outstanding but at the same time still look natural and realistic.

Like you can read, to date I am pretty happy and would recommend the Radiance Pro to all setup that want to be serious about HDR.

The financial investment was big for me but since I think it’s a medium/long term investment, the Radiance will be in my rack longer than my current projector and the one after.

And all that good word is only for one function the DTM. The Radiance can do a lot more like grayscal, gamma and color calibration. And many many other functions.

So now it’s time for me to attack my next goal, calibrate my NX7 with Chromapure and my meter.
I have a pile of 4K movies to watch this week. I’ll bet 4K looks great on your NX7 too. It’s amazing how far 4K has come this year picture wise !!







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post #5238 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 04:55 AM
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Does anyone know if there is already a Harmony device that has the direct IR codes for the various aspects, instead of having to do alt+235 for 2.4 etc?


Yes—the Harmony Elite. I mapped ARs to buttons for rapid access.

I posted a YouTube video about mapping Lumagen AR functions to a remote, Auto-Aspect switching, NLS, and DTM last night, but YouTube took it down immediately because some of the audio from an Interstellar Clip was audible. I need to re-edit the video and post tonight.


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post #5239 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 06:06 AM
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Yes—the Harmony Elite. I mapped ARs to buttons for rapid access.

I posted a YouTube video about mapping Lumagen AR functions to a remote, Auto-Aspect switching, NLS, and DTM last night, but YouTube took it down immediately because some of the audio from an Interstellar Clip was audible. I need to re-edit the video and post tonight.
I have Harmony Elite, my point is that for 2.4 all the devices I could find in the Harmony DB only have ALT and 2.35 so you can make a macro. They don't have a discrete 2.4 button. Did you find a device in the database that has a discrete 2.4 command in it?
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post #5240 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 06:15 AM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I have Harmony Elite, my point is that for 2.4 all the devices I could find in the Harmony DB only have ALT and 2.35 so you can make a macro. They don't have a discrete 2.4 button. Did you find a device in the database that has a discrete 2.4 command in it?

Nope, you would def need to create the macro sequence and map it to a single button.

Edit: What I do for my macros is I configure the commands to repeat 5 times with each button press, because sometimes once just isn’t enough.



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post #5241 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 06:26 AM
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but YouTube took it down immediately because some of the audio from an Interstellar Clip was audible.
REALLY. What is that about? Not sanctioned/approved by the Studio?

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post #5242 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 06:39 AM
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REALLY. What is that about? Not sanctioned/approved by the Studio?


Yup. Many studies don’t allow their content on YouTube. The new Lumagen software update is great. Did tons of real-time A/B tests on my favorite DTM test scenes for the video.


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post #5243 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Nope, you would def need to create the macro sequence and map it to a single button.

Edit: What I do for my macros is I configure the commands to repeat 5 times with each button press, because sometimes once just isn’t enough.



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Cool. It is just annoying as if I recall you have to create the macros for each activity you want to put it in. Would be nice if the IR protocol were extended with custom IR discrete codes for all the ALT commands.

I have IR in on my Pi based controller, I will probably make that do the aspect changes over the serial interface in response to a single button press instead.

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post #5244 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Yup. Many studies don’t allow their content on YouTube. The new Lumagen software update is great. Did tons of real-time A/B tests on my favorite DTM test scenes for the video.


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Did you make any changes to your DTM setup on the basis of the new update? I watched Interstellar last night and thought the new release looked great with my own settings (defaults apart from the low ratio being adjusted upwards)

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post #5245 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
The new Lumagen software update is great. Did tons of real-time A/B tests on my favorite DTM test scenes for the video.
Is is great. After I installed it, Craig Rounds walked me through changing a bunch of parameters and the end result is stunning (though I only watched a bit of the beginning of Shazam! since it was the movie that showed some weaknesses(?) in the previous release). The details in dark scenes is way better as is the overall image. A not inexpensive add-on but one that will last in my system as long as I last on planet earth - as will the panamorph - as will the projector!

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post #5246 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Did you make any changes to your DTM setup on the basis of the new update? I watched Interstellar last night and thought the new release looked great with my own settings (defaults apart from the low ratio being adjusted upwards)

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Nope, I stuck with the defaults. The defaults work really, really well.


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post #5247 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Is is great. After I installed it, Craig Rounds walked me through changing a bunch of parameters and the end result is stunning (though I only watched a bit of the beginning of Shazam! since it was the movie that showed some weaknesses(?) in the previous release). The details in dark scenes is way better as is the overall image. A not inexpensive add-on but one that will last in my system as long as I last on planet earth - as will the panamorph - as will the projector!


If I look hard enough, I could quote at least three times from your build thread and your previous theater’s thread where you said something akin to keeping gear forever.....

Just saying.....the grave condition of upgradeitis was originally diagnosed based on your symptoms! You were patient zero! Lol.

Shazam is one I haven’t tried—I can’t bring myself to purchase it...maybe if I find it on sale for under $15. What have you been using for your HDR torture tests? HDR Intensity Mapping introduced last year was a truly great addition, and Dynamic Tone Mapping really rounds out the package for a stellar HDR image. No other piece of equipment in my rack has the continued support or the company-to-customer feedback that Lumagen has. Glad I made this financially significant yet uber high-value investment back in 2017! It continues to pay for itself.


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post #5248 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
Anyone on the latest firmware and a Sony 5000 have an issue where the Lumagen continuously loses sync/black screen and then regains/image comes back. Happens about every 30s. Have not had this issue until I loaded the latest firmware. So far it happens watching Godzilla:King of the Monsters on Kscape Strato and Netflix HDR content thru ATV4K? Haven't really tested beyond that. Thinking of going back to previous FW. I watched Godzilla straight thru on the previous FW without any such issue?
never seen that.
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post #5249 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
If I look hard enough, I could quote at least three times from your build thread and your previous theater’s thread where you said something akin to keeping gear forever.....

Just saying.....the grave condition of upgradeitis was originally diagnosed based on your symptoms! You were patient zero! Lol.

Shazam is one I haven’t tried—I can’t bring myself to purchase it...maybe if I find it on sale for under $15. What have you been using for your HDR torture tests? HDR Intensity Mapping introduced last year was a truly great addition, and Dynamic Tone Mapping really rounds out the package for a stellar HDR image. No other piece of equipment in my rack has the continued support or the company-to-customer feedback that Lumagen has. Glad I made this financially significant yet uber high-value investment back in 2017! It continues to pay for itself.


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Ha ha ! Upgradeitis is a chronic disease whose symptoms lay dormant for years ( I had my Sim2 Lumis Host for 7 1/2 years until I had another occurrence ). The Lumagen and DCR lens hopefully have inoculated me for 4 or 5 more years.

I'm watching Shazam tomorrow - I'll let you know what I think. Looks pretty funny.
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post #5250 of 6001 Old 08-19-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post
never seen that.
I have the same drop out problem with ATV4K and made Jim aware. I know of one UK customer who also has this issue. I am using the previous release until the guys can get to bottom of it. Neither myself or my customer are VW5000 owners...both JVC's.
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