New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 176 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5251 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Ha ha ! Upgradeitis is a chronic disease whose symptoms lay dormant for years ( I had my Sim2 Lumis Host for 7 1/2 years until I had another occurrence ). The Lumagen and DCR lens hopefully have inoculated me for 4 or 5 more years.

I'm watching Shazam tomorrow - I'll let you know what I think. Looks pretty funny.
Reported the same issue on my Sony 760es last night have reverted to the previous update that’s working ok.

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post #5252 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 10:03 AM
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Hello all,

I just read through a great many of the more recent pages on this thread.
I find the content on the Lumagen of great interest.

Terry
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post #5253 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by gigimonagas View Post
I went back to previous firmware by doing a boot update and brightness, colors and contrast are back to normal. There's definetly something weird with new firmware. Just like Thrang said, image is flat and lifeless and way less brighter at least on my RS4500.
Well, last night I upgraded to the latest firmware and I must say I'm impressed. Brightness is back to normal and colors more real than ever!
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post #5254 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
If I look hard enough, I could quote at least three times from your build thread and your previous theater’s thread where you said something akin to keeping gear forever.....

Just saying.....the grave condition of upgradeitis was originally diagnosed based on your symptoms! You were patient zero! Lol.
At least three times - probably more. This time, however, I decided I needed an accountability partner. So I wrote a letter to my wife committing to not change the following for at least 5 years: Projector, Lumagen, Lens, Trinnov, amps, and speakers (subs could be an exception if I were to find something that the net exchange cost would be zero - or less). Not only was spending money part of the issue, I was spending too much time thinking about the next widget and not enough enjoying what I already have.

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Shazam is one I haven’t tried—I can’t bring myself to purchase it...maybe if I find it on sale for under $15. What have you been using for your HDR torture tests? HDR Intensity Mapping introduced last year was a truly great addition, and Dynamic Tone Mapping really rounds out the package for a stellar HDR image. No other piece of equipment in my rack has the continued support or the company-to-customer feedback that Lumagen has. Glad I made this financially significant yet uber high-value investment back in 2017! It continues to pay for itself.
Shazam! was not my kind of movie. I bought it based upon Ralph's review. While the audio and video are nice, it just did not click for me.

I've looked at a number of clips of different movies (some of which are on your list) but at the end of the day, looking for either "improvements" or changes by turning on and off DTM is just one more way to take away from the experience. I LOVE the image I am seeing.

And I would agree with you on the longevity possibilities of the Lumagen - but I would add the Panamorph products as well. I had my last one for over 15 years.
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post #5255 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 10:49 AM
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The latest software is also not working with my Sony995ES. Loss of HDMI connection, green screen.... Back to old firmware.

Do not install if you own a Sony projector!
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post #5256 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
The latest software is also not working with my Sony995ES. Loss of HDMI connection, green screen.... Back to old firmware.

Do not install if you own a Sony projector!
Wondering if Lumagen has a Sony pj to test with, even better a 5000
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post #5257 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 11:17 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
At least three times - probably more. This time, however, I decided I needed an accountability partner. So I wrote a letter to my wife committing to not change the following for at least 5 years: Projector, Lumagen, Lens, Trinnov, amps, and speakers (subs could be an exception if I were to find something that the net exchange cost would be zero - or less). Not only was spending money part of the issue, I was spending too much time thinking about the next widget and not enough enjoying what I already have.



Shazam! was not my kind of movie. I bought it based upon Ralph's review. While the audio and video are nice, it just did not click for me.

I've looked at a number of clips of different movies (some of which are on your list) but at the end of the day, looking for either "improvements" or changes by turning on and off DTM is just one more way to take away from the experience. I LOVE the image I am seeing.

And I would agree with you on the longevity possibilities of the Lumagen - but I would add the Panamorph products as well. I had my last one for over 15 years.
Chuck,

What is the exact full-name of the Lumagen as I wish to do some in-depth reading from reviewers/owners not on AVS.
I also would like to look up the current product with the New/Latest Firmware Up-Dates for correct pricing ???

Thanks,
Terry
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post #5258 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Chuck,

What is the exact full-name of the Lumagen as I wish to do some in-depth reading from reviewers/owners not on AVS.
I also would like to look up the current product with the New/Latest Firmware Up-Dates for correct pricing ???

Thanks,
Terry
RadiancePro Series UltraHD Video Processor - http://lumagen.com/testindex.php?mod...ncepro_details
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post #5259 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
I have the same drop out problem with ATV4K and made Jim aware. I know of one UK customer who also has this issue. I am using the previous release until the guys can get to bottom of it. Neither myself or my customer are VW5000 owners...both JVC's.
Over the weekend I received a few reports of issues with the 080919 release for dropouts. On the other hand most are saying it works for them. So FPGA is close but not perfect.

While the CAD tools said the new FPGA had good timing, the tools are not perfect. Patrick is on vacation but will return on Thursday and can work on the FPGA timing then.

Anyone having an issue with 080919, please revert to an earlier release that works for you until we can get a release with a better FPGA posted.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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post #5260 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post
Wondering if Lumagen has a Sony pj to test with, even better a 5000
We use a JVC RS4500 and various TVs (mainly an LG OLED and a Sony 4K HDR TV) for testing. So no Sony projector here.

Jim Peterson
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post #5261 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
The latest software is also not working with my Sony995ES. Loss of HDMI connection, green screen.... Back to old firmware.

Do not install if you own a Sony projector!
I've installed it on a VW5000 and almost everything is working perfectly, just a couple of random frame with noticeable yellow cast in the whole evening
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post #5262 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 02:09 PM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
7 series and up look fine. Their auto tone map actually does a pretty good job too. I wouldn't set the output to SDR in the Lumagen for a 7 series and up, I would set to output HDR and turn DTM on with a display max of about 700-800.


I think there may be something wrong with my “system”, because with Display Max Light set to 700-800 results in the picture being way way way too bright, with blown out colors and blacks. I am finding I need to add an extra “0” to your numbers, and it looks fine.

I settled on 6,000, and it looks good, but I am sure there is room for improvement.

Is this normal?

Edit: I am using HDR2020 output, no 1D or 3D LUT calibrations, and the LG OLED Dynamic Contrast setting is Off.

Thanks.

Mark


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post #5263 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 02:56 PM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanop View Post
I've installed it on a VW5000 and almost everything is working perfectly, just a couple of random frame with noticeable yellow cast in the whole evening


Do you happen to have Kaleidescape Strato as a source? That is pretty much unsusable with the new FW in my system. It works perfect with the previous FW.


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post #5264 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanop View Post
I've installed it on a VW5000 and almost everything is working perfectly, just a couple of random frame with noticeable yellow cast in the whole evening
Well, the update worked with some sources but not all of them. Sky receiver had no problems but my Zappiti video player had serious (timing) issues.
Wondered at first why Patrick did not response.
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post #5265 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 04:00 PM
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For anyone interested, I shot a video on the video setup in my cinema, inclusive of the Lumagen Radiance Pro. Auto-aspect setup, NLS, DTM setup, control recommendations for AR switching, and more are covered in the video.


Last edited by BrolicBeast; 08-20-2019 at 01:17 AM.
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post #5266 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Over the weekend I received a few reports of issues with the 080919 release for dropouts. On the other hand most are saying it works for them. So FPGA is close but not perfect.

While the CAD tools said the new FPGA had good timing, the tools are not perfect. Patrick is on vacation but will return on Thursday and can work on the FPGA timing then.

Anyone having an issue with 080919, please revert to an earlier release that works for you until we can get a release with a better FPGA posted.
Just to add to this, I noticed that with 080919 the Nvidia Shield TV (using 6' Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed cable) will exhibit dropouts when set to 4K60 4:2:2, but not when set to 4K60 4:2:0 (or anything 4K24). This wasn't the case in previous releases. Benefits of 080919 outweigh this issue for me, so not reverting, just wanted to give you another data point to potentially test with.
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post #5267 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 05:39 PM
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I finally watched a few movies all of the way through since I installed the update. WOW! pretty much sums it up. The RS4500, when compared to other JVC projectors, doesn't have the same contrast levels. That may be true on some test patterns but when watching real world movies, you would be hard pressed to tell.

The combination of the RS4500/Lumagen/Panamorph is one heck of a combination. Consider me more than pleasantly pleased!!

Last edited by audioguy; 08-20-2019 at 04:29 AM.
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post #5268 of 5537 Old 08-19-2019, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I think there may be something wrong with my “system”, because with Display Max Light set to 700-800 results in the picture being way way way too bright, with blown out colors and blacks. I am finding I need to add an extra “0” to your numbers, and it looks fine.

I settled on 6,000, and it looks good, but I am sure there is room for improvement.

Is this normal?

Edit: I am using HDR2020 output, no 1D or 3D LUT calibrations, and the LG OLED Dynamic Contrast setting is Off.
With the output Colorspace = HDR2020, you are doing tone mapping twice (in the Pro and the in projector/TV). This is not a good situation.

However, some have made it work but turning down the projector/TV tone mapping and setting Max Light to the 2000 to 3000 range. If you do not turn down the projector/TV tone mapping you really need the Max Light at 10000 - the full HDR range since that is likely what the projector/TV is assuming.

If you can turn the projector/TV's tone mapping down enough to be able to use Max Light in the 2000 range the Pro can do some tone mapping for content mastered to 3000 nits and higher.

That said there are some tricks you can do with a calibration to partially diminsh the projector/TV's tone mapping. I have some ideas I plan to test (just bought a LG OLED for this and other testing). Kris Deering has some tricks for this case as well that he could do if you hire him to calibrate.

In general projectors should have output Colorspace = SDR2020. If a TV does not allow the same light output for SDR input mode as for HDR input mode, it may be best to set Pro output Colorspace = HDR2020. In this case you might find double tone mapping to have issues and the only choice then would be to turn off the Radiance Pro tone mapping and use the TVs tone mapping. Or the above balancing the Pro and TV tone mapping may work best. If you are like many and are happy with the light output of your TV in SDR2020 mode, then you would set up as I have discussed, as shown in the Radiance Pro manual and the set-up slide set.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

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post #5269 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
Do you happen to have Kaleidescape Strato as a source? That is pretty much unsusable with the new FW in my system. It works perfect with the previous FW.


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No, No Strato here. Oppo 203 and many Dune Media Player.
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post #5270 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
Well, the update worked with some sources but not all of them. Sky receiver had no problems but my Zappiti video player had serious (timing) issues.
Wondered at first why Patrick did not response.
I've got many Dune (Pro 4K) which, I suppose, are similar, if not equal, to Zappiti player. Maybe is the way they are connected to. All my player go into the receiver and then the receiver goes to Radiance
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post #5271 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by stefanop View Post
I've got many Dune (Pro 4K) which, I suppose, are similar, if not equal, to Zappiti player. Maybe is the way they are connected to. All my player go into the receiver and then the receiver goes to Radiance
No, all of my sources go directly into the Lumagen as recommended. No problems except last firmware. Back to old firmware. No problems.

So the conclusion is obvious... firmware bug.
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post #5272 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 05:49 AM
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Does anybody have experience using the Lumagen auto aspect function with a Control4 set up? My needs are fairly simple. Currently I do not use auto aspect, and when I am watching a 2.35 aspect ratio movie I use the Control4 remote to activate a macro, which zooms my Sony 5000 lens and removes my masking panels. When I am watching a 1.78 aspect ratio movie I use the Control4 remote, manually, to activate another macro, which zooms out the Sony 5000 lens and puts the side masking panels back in place.

This isn’t exactly a hardship, but it would be nice to use a serial cable between the radiance Pro and the Control4 HC 800 to automate this process. Is this easy to do? Or, to put it another way, does the Control4 serial driver allow use of a customized macro?

I have seen other posts that are several years old that say the serial driver is limited and to stack and IP driver on top of the serial driver, but I am not entirely clear how that would work. Any help would be appreciated!
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post #5273 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 06:39 AM
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Re: the new firmware:

For me, the left arrow shape and transition values are broken for both high and low - setting either to one extreme or the other has no impact on the image - zero.

Ratio, gamma, and black seems to work

The broken shape and transition issue exists for dtm on or off - doesn’t matter.

EDIT: perhaps not broken but certain titles reflect no changes, other the changes are very subtle...while the idea of finer changes is good, perhaps you need many more steps than 0-7 or 0-15 for shape and transition accordingly

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post #5274 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Re: the new firmware:

For me, the left arrow shape and transition values are broken for both high and low - setting either to one extreme or the other has no impact on the image - zero.

Ratio, gamma, and black seems to work

The broken shape and transition issue exists for dtm on or off - doesn’t matter.

EDIT: perhaps not broken but certain titles reflect no changes, other the changes are very subtle...while the idea of finer changes is good, perhaps you need many more steps than 0-7 or 0-15 for shape and transition accordingly
Personally I would go the other way. I'd like to eventually see shape and transition removed entirely. I can't help but think that for any given measured peak brightness and black floor, there should be an optimal shape, transition and ratio value (for both high and low scenes) that a) maximises the nit-for-nit range, b) minimises highlight compression, and c) provides the smoothest transition between the two, without the need for more dial turning.

I appreciate we need these controls now because DTM is still in something of a testing phase, but I'd like to hope we are converging on a future point where the user enters their measured peak brightness (the actual measurement not a multiple thereof), perhaps selects a display type, and is done - maybe retaining gamma and black level controls to allow seasoning to taste.
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post #5275 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
The latest software is also not working with my Sony995ES. Loss of HDMI connection, green screen.... Back to old firmware.

Do not install if you own a Sony projector!
It seems very stable on my 995, but only have been using Strato/Alto/costar and DISH as sources since updating. SJ
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post #5276 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Personally I would go the other way. I'd like to eventually see shape and transition removed entirely. I can't help but think that for any given measured peak brightness and black floor, there should be a optimal shape, transition and ratio value (for both high and low scenes) that a) maximises the nit-for-nit range, b) minimises highlight compression, and c) provides the smoothest transition between the two, without the need for more dial turning.

I appreciate we need these controls now because DTM is still in something of a testing phase, but I'd like to hope we are converging on a future point where the user enters their measured peak brightness (the actual measurement not a multiple thereof), perhaps selects a display type, and is done - maybe retaining gamma and black level controls to allow seasoning to taste.
Agree, I'd very much prefer eventually the work of converting "real observed nits" into whatever internal parameters are necessary for driving the various bits of internal machinery to be done by the Lumagen. Apart from anything else this should (from a user's point of view) eliminate the need to consider settings changes between releases - the algorithms would be expected to do the best job with the observed physical capabilities of the system.

I can see how we got here given the evolution in HDR mapping over what has been a relatively short period of time, but I do think that a rationalisation would be helpful. It seems like now there are basically two controls of most significance - the Display Max Light and the Low Ratio setting - whose relationship to peak white is becoming reasonably defined to the peak white performance, so this is almost a UI thing now. Plus I guess the black control (and maybe gamma) if you have a raised black floor in room. And maybe having all the necessary controls living in the same place. I'm not really sure what the reasoning is still for the low ratio, for example, still being input related, while DML isn't.

Within the confines of the current setup; I'd personally currently find it more useful if on the "left arrow" menu you had quick direct access to DML and low ratio (and if there isn't space, for it to nudge shape and trans off the list). With the low ratio showing the relevant calculation whether or not you're in DTM mode (instead of having to toggle DTM to get it to display).
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post #5277 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
It seems very stable on my 995, but only have been using Strato/Alto/costar and DISH as sources since updating. SJ
For me...Strato, new FW and Sony 5000 are not playing well together at all. Previous FW its rock solid.
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post #5278 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 11:34 AM
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After watching 6 minutes of The Meg and trying for two hours to figure out how to prevent burned out highlights and clipped colors (including a complete factory reset), I went back to 072119.

Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
VP/Calibration: Lumagen Radiance Pro, LightSpace CMS, x-rite i1 Pro 2, x-rite i1 Display 3
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post #5279 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 04:20 PM
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New firmware did not get on well with my Zappiti. Worked initially then consistent and significant distortion and signal loss even after rebooting both machines. Using JVC X7000. Back to 0421 for me again.
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post #5280 of 5537 Old 08-20-2019, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Personally I would go the other way. I'd like to eventually see shape and transition removed entirely. I can't help but think that for any given measured peak brightness and black floor, there should be an optimal shape, transition and ratio value (for both high and low scenes) that a) maximises the nit-for-nit range, b) minimises highlight compression, and c) provides the smoothest transition between the two, without the need for more dial turning.

I appreciate we need these controls now because DTM is still in something of a testing phase, but I'd like to hope we are converging on a future point where the user enters their measured peak brightness (the actual measurement not a multiple thereof), perhaps selects a display type, and is done - maybe retaining gamma and black level controls to allow seasoning to taste.
Agree completely. I tell all my clients to just leave them alone. There is absolutely no reason to mess with shape/transition at this point. Most people don't even understand what they do and just start randomly cycling them up and down. They really don't need to be touched. There are other settings in the menu I would eliminate as well, but Jim is always nervous about getting rid of features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
After watching 6 minutes of The Meg and trying for two hours to figure out how to prevent burned out highlights and clipped colors (including a complete factory reset), I went back to 072119.
Sounds like you have some setup issues with both the projector and Lumagen. I offer consulting and setup services for the Lumagen so reach out if you need a hand.
OzHDHT, Wookii and A7mad78 like this.

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