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post #5671 of 5978 Old 10-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks Kris - yes that’s what I’m getting at, it would be good to know whether of not, for example if your low ratio effective nits is 300 nits (given a x2 multiplier to your measured peakY of 150nits), the 100nit and below values are being sent to the display 2 nits input to one nit output. I could then put up a 100nit test pattern and presumably measure 50nits off screen?
This sounds like there could be a case for some new test patterns for testing behaviour of dynamic tone mapping implementations. Perhaps something @sspears could think about for V2 of the UHD disc that is in the works.

I'm imagining several sequences of grey scale windowed patches where somewhere on the screen (I guess as far away from the centre as possible, maybe a border around the edge of the screen) you'd have a significantly sized amount of varying peak nit levels so that you could see what happens to the greyscale patches when the analysed maxCLL / maxFALL from a DTM engine is in operation.

So you could have a 100 nit border with patches from 0-100 nit, a 200 nit border with parches from 0-200 nit, etc. Maybe have peaks of 100, 150, 200, 300, 400, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000.
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post #5672 of 5978 Old 10-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SSnarski View Post
I loaded the new lumagan update last night and placed the dpad on 3, watched the new Spiderman Far from Home 4K Disc that released yesterday, the movie was ok not great, but Sony did a fantasic job with the picture quality on this disc, this by far has to be the sharpest 4K disc i have seen on my projection system, i picked up the Dr Strange 4K Disc as well, i will have to watch this one soon, really loved this movie, but now they have added the Atmos track as well can't wait to see and hear the improvements.
I picked this one up today but haven't had a chance to look at it yet. We watched the new Men In Black movie the other night and the picture quality was breathtaking for detail and the HDR really lent a lot to the image. So might be worth checking out!

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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Thanks Kris - yes that’s what I’m getting at, it would be good to know whether of not, for example if your low ratio effective nits is 300 nits (given a x2 multiplier to your measured peakY of 150nits), the 100nit and below values are being sent to the display 2 nits input to one nit output. I could then put up a 100nit test pattern and presumably measure 50nits off screen?
I don't think that is how it works. He didn't build in a multiplier to everything. BUT, if you had put in that your max is 100 nits for low (which means your measured is about 50 nits) you are essentially building in a 2x multiplier already. Stacey built a 100 nit test pattern into the new 4K disc at my request. It is in the advanced video section. I believe it is one of the last patterns in the list. You could measure there and see.

The problem with setting a generic 2x for everything 100 nit and below is you are assuming that everyone did this with SDR, which isn't the case. Most of my clients want it brighter (most ask for around 20 fL, not 14-16). What Jim is doing is leaving as much range as he can nit for nit, but you have to build in for what will eventually be the curve. And that curve is going to be different depending on how high the content needs to stretch. So if you are putting in a higher display max light, you are getting more nit for nit range before the curve starts, but there isn't a hard fast rule that I'm aware of. I looked at the graphical representation of his curves when I was at his place a month or so ago and you could see the most of the curves were nit for nit for most of the same amount until you got to the really high nit values.

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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
This sounds like there could be a case for some new test patterns for testing behaviour of dynamic tone mapping implementations. Perhaps something @sspears could think about for V2 of the UHD disc that is in the works.

I'm imagining several sequences of grey scale windowed patches where somewhere on the screen (I guess as far away from the centre as possible, maybe a border around the edge of the screen) you'd have a significantly sized amount of varying peak nit levels so that you could see what happens to the greyscale patches when the analysed maxCLL / maxFALL from a DTM engine is in operation.

So you could have a 100 nit border with patches from 0-100 nit, a 200 nit border with parches from 0-200 nit, etc. Maybe have peaks of 100, 150, 200, 300, 400, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000.
That wouldn't work because the patches would all be in the same frame. The only way this would work is if the pattern wasn't fixed and was updating like live video. I gave Stacey the idea of using dynamic MaxCLL/DML values for the 4K disc based on what I saw Panasonic doing with their test disc. Stacey took it a step forward and made it so you could change the actual grade of the content on the fly rather than just the metadata. So you could bounce between different patterns he has using the up arrow to select a different grade, but I don't know how much that will tell you about how the DTM is going to act with real content playing. Since Stacey's montage is a regrade each time, it doesn't work quite the way you'd want for evaluation. It also gets significantly brighter overall with each grade up (APL on his grades are really high). But the Lumagen does a great job with all the graded montages on that disc when I've tested it.

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post #5673 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
That wouldn't work because the patches would all be in the same frame. The only way this would work is if the pattern wasn't fixed and was updating like live video. I gave Stacey the idea of using dynamic MaxCLL/DML values for the 4K disc based on what I saw Panasonic doing with their test disc. Stacey took it a step forward and made it so you could change the actual grade of the content on the fly rather than just the metadata. So you could bounce between different patterns he has using the up arrow to select a different grade, but I don't know how much that will tell you about how the DTM is going to act with real content playing. Since Stacey's montage is a regrade each time, it doesn't work quite the way you'd want for evaluation. It also gets significantly brighter overall with each grade up (APL on his grades are really high). But the Lumagen does a great job with all the graded montages on that disc when I've tested it.
I think perhaps it wasn't a very clear explanation (it was clear in my mind).
This is several sequences of test images that you would be able to cursor through to take measurements at relevant stages.
The first image in each sequence would be black, in an attempt to reset any scene detection algorithm.
Next you would have an image with a border around the screen of the given peak for the sequence. Say 100 nits. Centre of the window is black. The idea would be that you might reasonably expect this to have triggered detection of a scene with MaxCLL of 100.
The next x images you can cursor through have the same 100 nit border, but have a single windowed patch in the centre of the screen. This should allow you to plot the response of the tone mapping algorithm when "in" a certain scene. I said above you would only measure patches up to the scene peak, but actually it probably makes sense to be able to go beyond the scene peak.
It would be important that the images transition seemlessly.
Repeat for different peak nits in the border. The list I gave was just a suggestion. It occurs to me that you'd probably also want some "scenes" with much lower peaks than 100 nits to prove that it truly were "nit for nit" in dark scenes.

There are probably two distinct sets that make sense for various purposes. One where the border is constant and the windowed patch is varied; another where the windowed patch is constant and the border is varied.

Of course there are questions about how big the borders etc might need to be to see that they reasonably trigger the various mechanisms in the tone mapping algorithm you're looking at, and it is always possible that transitioning from one image to the next itself triggers a scene detection change instead of a highlight detection. There may need to be a 3rd set of images where the whole image remains the same but an additional highlight above the peak is displayed at some location on the screen.

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post #5674 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I don't think that is how it works. He didn't build in a multiplier to everything. BUT, if you had put in that your max is 100 nits for low (which means your measured is about 50 nits) you are essentially building in a 2x multiplier already. Stacey built a 100 nit test pattern into the new 4K disc at my request. It is in the advanced video section. I believe it is one of the last patterns in the list. You could measure there and see.

The problem with setting a generic 2x for everything 100 nit and below is you are assuming that everyone did this with SDR, which isn't the case. Most of my clients want it brighter (most ask for around 20 fL, not 14-16). What Jim is doing is leaving as much range as he can nit for nit, but you have to build in for what will eventually be the curve. And that curve is going to be different depending on how high the content needs to stretch. So if you are putting in a higher display max light, you are getting more nit for nit range before the curve starts, but there isn't a hard fast rule that I'm aware of. I looked at the graphical representation of his curves when I was at his place a month or so ago and you could see the most of the curves were nit for nit for most of the same amount until you got to the really high nit values.
Thanks Kris, but I think you've misunderstood what I meant slightly - I'm wasn't suggesting a x2 low ratio should be baked in, I was just using it as an example to determine where we might be able to measure a pattern to verify results. We need something to adjust mid-tone brightness to taste (I run SDR at 18FtL also) - if the 'Low Ratio' setting is it, then fair enough.

Running though the example just for the sake of clarity:

- You measure a peakY off screen of 150nits
- So you set a 6x multiplier for DML giving 900
- And you set a low ratio to achieve a 2 x ratio of your measured peakY = 300 nits (which currently comes out around 28) [again the 2x multiplier is just an example, you could use x1.8 or x2.2 or whatever to taste]

By definition does that mean that the nit for nit range is output at 1/2 the luminance of the source (as you've used a 2x multiplier when setting the low ratio)?

Given those figures then, and assuming the above assumption on the nit-for-nit range is correct - is it then safe to deduce that 100 nits and below will definitely be within the nit-for-nit range?

If so, on that basis we should be able to throw up a 100nit HDR test pattern and measure 50 nits. If it doesn't, then we can adjust DML or Low Ratio until we hit 50nits. Of course our target can be higher or lower to taste; e.g. 40nits off the 100nit pattern, or 60 nits off the 100 nit pattern - but at least we have a system to verify the multiplier to the nit-for-nit range rather than eyeballing it alone.

What that also allows us to do is match the APL of the nit-for-nit range between two system - so if one user has a peakY of 150nits, and another has a peakY of 100nits, but they both adjust Low Ratio until they measure the same nits from a 100nit test pattern - the mid-tone luminance should be identical, and their images in the nit-for-nit range should be very similar (assuming similar accurate 2.4 gamma base calibrations).

I'll consider stumping up for the new Spears disc then, and try that pattern and see what happens.
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post #5675 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 06:00 AM
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Are shape and transition disabled with latest release ? I’m not seeing any change to the image regardless of content
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I picked this one up today but haven't had a chance to look at it yet. We watched the new Men In Black movie the other night and the picture quality was breathtaking for detail and the HDR really lent a lot to the image. So might be worth checking out!



I don't think that is how it works. He didn't build in a multiplier to everything. BUT, if you had put in that your max is 100 nits for low (which means your measured is about 50 nits) you are essentially building in a 2x multiplier already. Stacey built a 100 nit test pattern into the new 4K disc at my request. It is in the advanced video section. I believe it is one of the last patterns in the list. You could measure there and see.

The problem with setting a generic 2x for everything 100 nit and below is you are assuming that everyone did this with SDR, which isn't the case. Most of my clients want it brighter (most ask for around 20 fL, not 14-16). What Jim is doing is leaving as much range as he can nit for nit, but you have to build in for what will eventually be the curve. And that curve is going to be different depending on how high the content needs to stretch. So if you are putting in a higher display max light, you are getting more nit for nit range before the curve starts, but there isn't a hard fast rule that I'm aware of. I looked at the graphical representation of his curves when I was at his place a month or so ago and you could see the most of the curves were nit for nit for most of the same amount until you got to the really high nit values.



That wouldn't work because the patches would all be in the same frame. The only way this would work is if the pattern wasn't fixed and was updating like live video. I gave Stacey the idea of using dynamic MaxCLL/DML values for the 4K disc based on what I saw Panasonic doing with their test disc. Stacey took it a step forward and made it so you could change the actual grade of the content on the fly rather than just the metadata. So you could bounce between different patterns he has using the up arrow to select a different grade, but I don't know how much that will tell you about how the DTM is going to act with real content playing. Since Stacey's montage is a regrade each time, it doesn't work quite the way you'd want for evaluation. It also gets significantly brighter overall with each grade up (APL on his grades are really high). But the Lumagen does a great job with all the graded montages on that disc when I've tested it.

Kris,


I picked up the new MIB International when it released a while back, watched it on my OLED TV upstairs, I will have to re-watch in the theater room, maybe this winter when things slow down a bit, i have been real busy. But i have to say the improvements with the Lumagen Rad Pro with DTM has been a game changer for sure!
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post #5677 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
To determine the DTM values (and Kris correct me if I'm summarizing this wrong)

- Measured LUX using a AEMC CA813 light meter with a 100% white Radiance Test pattern, making sure I was in the projector picture mode I use for HDR content. Pointed at the projector not the screen.
- Converted LUX to nits (LUX/3.1459) - (used the inverse of this calculation: https://sciencing.com/convert-nits-lux-7448702.html)
- Multiplied this by SCREEN GAIN for actual NIT value
- Multiplied actual NIT value x6 for MAX NITS in the CMS HDR setting
- Multiplied actual NIT value x2 for low ratio/"effective NIT" setting in the DTM menu
So my measured LUX value was 555 or so. To convert to Nits, it was 551/3.1459= 176. Multiplied by 0.9 screen gain, the NIT value at center screen was 159.

159 x6 gave me 953 for the MAX NIT value. 159 x2 gave the the low ratio target of 317, so ratio 28 was closest (311) (all math approximate here)

To check the max nit value was correct (besides Kris confirming the values!) I used a Lux to Lumen spreadsheet to input my screen size parameters, throw distance, and center screen LUX measurement. The measured peak lumens was 2634.

From this site https://hometheatreengineering.com/p...-screen-sizes/, there is the following calculation:

Lumens = Nits x Screen Area (in square meters) * Pi (3.14159). For me (square meters for my screen is approx 4.7), this calculated lumens to 2608, so quite close to the spreadsheet value.

Hope this helps... if Kris corrects my ass here, I'll update the post!
I wonder if someone can help me troubleshoot my attempt at measuring my nits.

I am using the same light meter as Thrang. I'm using a 100% white pattern and of course holding the meter at the screen facing the projector. My projector is set to use the picture mode I use for HDR (tone-mapped) content My lux measurement is a measly 117 (versus Thrang's 555). 117 / 3.1459 = 37. Multiplied by my screen gain of 1.3 I get 48 nits. This can't be correct.

I noticed that I had another pattern (from the same source) that consisted of a full frame of white (versus a white rectangle in the middle of the screen) and measuring that I come up with 163 lux. Better, but 163 / 3.1459 = 51. Multiplied by my screen gain of 1.3 I get 67 nits. Still not looking correct. I'm pretty sure I have over 100 nits (I suspect somewhere between 100 & 125 as those values result in the most natural looking HDR tone mapping when using madVR).

I suspect I'm using the wrong test pattern. I can't explain why I get a stronger measurement with the full screen 100% white vs the rectangle (my theater is a black cave so no reflections).

Any ideas?

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post #5678 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
I wonder if someone can help me troubleshoot my attempt at measuring my nits.

I am using the same light meter as Thrang. I'm using a 100% white pattern and of course holding the meter at the screen facing the projector. My projector is set to use the picture mode I use for HDR (tone-mapped) content My lux measurement is a measly 117 (versus Thrang's 555). 117 / 3.1459 = 37. Multiplied by my screen gain of 1.3 I get 48 nits. This can't be correct.

I noticed that I had another pattern (from the same source) that consisted of a full frame of white (versus a white rectangle in the middle of the screen) and measuring that I come up with 163 lux. Better, but 163 / 3.1459 = 51. Multiplied by my screen gain of 1.3 I get 67 nits. Still not looking correct. I'm pretty sure I have over 100 nits (I suspect somewhere between 100 & 125 as those values result in the most natural looking HDR tone mapping when using madVR).

I suspect I'm using the wrong test pattern. I can't explain why I get a stronger measurement with the full screen 100% white vs the rectangle (my theater is a black cave so no reflections).

Any ideas?
You probably should take any measurements with the AEMC CA813 with a grain of salt compared to other meters / readings. When I got my Sper Scientific 840020C ( N.I.S.T. traceable certificate of calibration ), readings with it showed my AEMC CA813 was 10% low in comparison. YMMV.

Corrected / edited now that I've had 2 cups of coffee and am fully awake.

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I've always measured brightness off the screen. Not facing the projector. And you probably should take any measurements with the AEMC CA813 with a grain of salt compared to other meters / readings. When I got my Sper Scientific 840020C ( N.I.S.T. traceable certificate of calibration ), readings with it showed my AEMC CA813 was 10% low in comparison. Just FYI.

Bottom line - can't you just measure lux off the screen with a 100 IRE test pattern like normal and convert the foot lamberts to nits ?
I don’t know that it’s easy to get an accurate reading off the screen - the shadow caused by the probe is an issue (and some screens have various reflectivity based on angle I think) to avoid the shadow you need to pull back further from the screen and I think the impacts accuracy - I only get 240 best case depending upon angle and distance to screen, implying I have. .5 gain screen! Which I don’t....
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I've always measured brightness off the screen. Not facing the projector. And you probably should take any measurements with the AEMC CA813 with a grain of salt compared to other meters / readings. When I got my Sper Scientific 840020C ( N.I.S.T. traceable certificate of calibration ), readings with it showed my AEMC CA813 was 10% low in comparison. Just FYI.



Bottom line - can't you just measure lux off the screen with a 100 IRE test pattern like normal and convert the foot lamberts to nits ?


I have never heard of anyone using that style meter to read the light output directly off the screen. Are you sure about that?

I used a Minolta LS100 to read the exact fL directly off the screen. But previously I also used a AEMC CA813 and I would place that meter at the screen with the probe facing the projector.




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Last edited by ccool96; 10-03-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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post #5681 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 10:15 AM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
I wonder if someone can help me troubleshoot my attempt at measuring my nits.



I am using the same light meter as Thrang. I'm using a 100% white pattern and of course holding the meter at the screen facing the projector. My projector is set to use the picture mode I use for HDR (tone-mapped) content My lux measurement is a measly 117 (versus Thrang's 555). 117 / 3.1459 = 37. Multiplied by my screen gain of 1.3 I get 48 nits. This can't be correct.



I noticed that I had another pattern (from the same source) that consisted of a full frame of white (versus a white rectangle in the middle of the screen) and measuring that I come up with 163 lux. Better, but 163 / 3.1459 = 51. Multiplied by my screen gain of 1.3 I get 67 nits. Still not looking correct. I'm pretty sure I have over 100 nits (I suspect somewhere between 100 & 125 as those values result in the most natural looking HDR tone mapping when using madVR).



I suspect I'm using the wrong test pattern. I can't explain why I get a stronger measurement with the full screen 100% white vs the rectangle (my theater is a black cave so no reflections).



Any ideas?


What size screen do you have? What fabric? And what power level and iris setting were you using on your RS4500.

With my 5000ES, I have 42fL when measured directly off the screen with a Minolta LS100. Which is equal to 143 nits or 450 lux.

With 67 nits you would be getting right at 20fL. Sounds like you might of measured your light output when it was set for SDR viewing?



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Last edited by ccool96; 10-03-2019 at 10:21 AM.
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post #5682 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 10:45 AM
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Is it ok to roll back to the previous update?
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I have never heard of anyone using that style meter to read the light output directly off the screen. Are you sure about that?

I used a Minolta LS100 to read the exact fL directly off the screen. But previously I also used a AEMC CA813 and I would place that meter at the screen with the probe facing the projector.


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You're 100% right. I wrote that prior to my first cup of coffee this morning. Obviously I was 1/2 asleep and 100 brain dead ( I'm like that before coffee ).

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Is it ok to roll back to the previous update?
Yes
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I don’t know that it easy to get a reading off the screen - the shadow caused by the probe is an issue (and some screens have various reflectivity based on angle I think) to avoid the shadow you need to pull back further from the screen and I think the impacts accuracy - I only get 240 best case depending up angle and distance to screen, implying I have. .5 gain screen! Which I don’t....
Note to self - drink coffee before posting anything first thing in the morning. You are correct. But I would say nobody should stake their life on comparisons of readings from one AEMC CA813 to the next.

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I flipped back and forth between a DPad setting of 3 and 4 last night ( and between 2 and 5 just to see what the effect is ). I think overall I like the brighter picture using 3. I definitely like what this DTM firmware is doing. I think it's the best yet.

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post #5687 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 11:12 AM
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What size screen do you have? What fabric? And what power level and iris setting were you using on your RS4500.

With my 5000ES, I have 42fL when measured directly off the screen with a Minolta LS100. Which is equal to 143 nits or 450 lux.

With 67 nits you would be getting right at 20fL. Sounds like you might of measured your light output when it was set for SDR viewing?

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I appreciate the reply.

11 foot wide 2.35:1 Stewart ST130 (see signature). I'm using mid laser with -5 iris setting and Mode 2 laser dimming. This *is* an SDR setting (although with HDR color setting) because I use dynamic tone mapping.

I had ChadB calibrate my projector and his documentation says that it was 29fl before his calibration and 16 afterwards (going as high as 27 if I don't use the iris) so maybe the real nits value is around 67.

Still doesn't explain why the two test patterns measured differently. Which test pattern do you use for this purpose?

I will try entering 67 nits in madVR and see what happens, but I've been using values between 100 and 130 and thought 100 was a little fatiguing (i.e. bright) so I can only imagine what 67 will be like.

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post #5688 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 11:33 AM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
I appreciate the reply.



11 foot wide 2.35:1 Stewart ST130 (see signature). I'm using mid laser with -5 iris setting and Mode 2 laser dimming. This *is* an SDR setting (although with HDR color setting) because I use dynamic tone mapping.



I had ChadB calibrate my projector and his documentation says that it was 29fl before his calibration and 16 afterwards (going as high as 27 if I don't use the iris) so maybe the real nits value is around 67.



Still doesn't explain why the two test patterns measured differently. Which test pattern do you use for this purpose?



I will try entering 67 nits in madVR and see what happens, but I've been using values between 100 and 130 and thought 100 was a little fatiguing (i.e. bright) so I can only imagine what 67 will be like.


Sounds like the reading is about spot on then. I understand it’s your SDR setting with HDR color, since using DTM, but many still use higher light output settings for HDR content with DTM compared to actual SDR content.

DTM is fantastic but I don’t consider DTM a replacement for light output. DTM can work wonders for those who don’t have extra light output to work with, but for those that do have the headroom, why not make use of it.

While 16fL looks ok for SDR and can look ok with DTM, 30+fL with DTM looks even that much better.

When watching HDR content with DTM why not try setting your max light based on either mid laser with the iris fully open or even high laser with the iris closed down some?

I can’t imagine wanting to watch HDR content at 16fL, especially when you have such a nice projector with headroom.






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post #5689 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
I appreciate the reply.

11 foot wide 2.35:1 Stewart ST130 (see signature). I'm using mid laser with -5 iris setting and Mode 2 laser dimming. This *is* an SDR setting (although with HDR color setting) because I use dynamic tone mapping.

I had ChadB calibrate my projector and his documentation says that it was 29fl before his calibration and 16 afterwards (going as high as 27 if I don't use the iris) so maybe the real nits value is around 67.

Still doesn't explain why the two test patterns measured differently. Which test pattern do you use for this purpose?

I will try entering 67 nits in madVR and see what happens, but I've been using values between 100 and 130 and thought 100 was a little fatiguing (i.e. bright) so I can only imagine what 67 will be like.
Given your variables I would expect you to have somewhere around 60-75 nits. Mid laser is not that far off what I would get with the RS3000 and my screen is very similar (though yours is 1.3 gain and mine is 1.0, but any time I've compared the two you DO NOT get a 30% jump, it is really around half of that). So I would try about 80 nits max. That means in the Lumagen your Display Max Light in the CMS would be 480 and your ratio for the low set should be fine at 28.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
When watching HDR content with DTM why not try setting your max light based on either mid laser with the iris fully open or even high laser with the iris closed down some?

I can’t imagine wanting to watch HDR content at 16fL, especially when you have such a nice projector with headroom.

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Exactly - you should not be using your SDR709 settings (light output) for your DTM output from the Lumagen. Is the how your calibrator set you up?
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post #5691 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 05:16 PM
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Given your variables I would expect you to have somewhere around 60-75 nits. Mid laser is not that far off what I would get with the RS3000 and my screen is very similar (though yours is 1.3 gain and mine is 1.0, but any time I've compared the two you DO NOT get a 30% jump, it is really around half of that). So I would try about 80 nits max. That means in the Lumagen your Display Max Light in the CMS would be 480 and your ratio for the low set should be fine at 28.
Thanks, Kris, I appreciate it.

I use both the Lumagen and madVR (the latter for my ripped movies, the former when playing actual discs) and so I input 67 nits into madVR to see how it looked. I was half expecting the whites to be overblown (and the image too bright) but to my surprise that didn't happen and the image was much improved (including contrast) in most respects.

Now to try the Lumagen...

ccool96: I'm still not sure about sacrificing contrast (opening up the iris or dropping the dynamic laser) to get more nits, but I'll experiment with it.

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post #5692 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 05:22 PM
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Exactly - you should not be using your SDR709 settings (light output) for your DTM output from the Lumagen. Is the how your calibrator set you up?
Admittedly, no. When ChadB set me up for HDR it was with his custom curves with the projector in true HDR mode (and full light output). Since I now use dynamic tone mapping (HDR->SDR) I basically use his SDR settings but change the color space to his HDR calibration and choose 2.4 gamma. I'm guessing this is close but not perfect.

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post #5693 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
Thanks, Kris, I appreciate it.

I use both the Lumagen and madVR (the latter for my ripped movies, the former when playing actual discs) and so I input 67 nits into madVR to see how it looked. I was half expecting the whites to be overblown (and the image too bright) but to my surprise that didn't happen and the image was much improved (including contrast) in most respects.

Now to try the Lumagen...

ccool96: I'm still not sure about sacrificing contrast (opening up the iris or dropping the dynamic laser) to get more nits, but I'll experiment with it.
Ian,
You are one of the few using both MadVR and Lumagen - and could give the best overview what is in store with the upcoming Envy as compared to the Lumagen.
Could you comment in DTM through Lumagen versus MadVR for UHD 4K Discs?
If one is better than other then by what percentage in your opinion.
Thanks in advance.
Ash
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post #5694 of 5978 Old 10-03-2019, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
Admittedly, no. When ChadB set me up for HDR it was with his custom curves with the projector in true HDR mode (and full light output). Since I now use dynamic tone mapping (HDR->SDR) I basically use his SDR settings but change the color space to his HDR calibration and choose 2.4 gamma. I'm guessing this is close but not perfect.
I would use Chad's HDR mode and just change the gamma from import to 2.4 and the keep the rest the same. This would probably give you better results that using his SDR setup which would be for a completely different light output.
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post #5695 of 5978 Old 10-04-2019, 01:47 AM
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Hello guys noob question :-)

it is safe to update the firmware and leaving everything untouched and still enjoying a good picture ?

My projector/screen was calibrated a while ago by @Gordon but I don't the means to ask him to come over anytime soon.

So I was wondering if I can safely update the firmware without destroying completely the picture quality :-)

thanks for the help,

Ben
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post #5696 of 5978 Old 10-04-2019, 01:47 AM
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Question

Hello guys noob question :-)

it is safe to update the firmware and leaving everything untouched and still enjoying a good picture ?

My projector/screen was calibrated a while ago by @Gordon but I don't the means to ask him to come over anytime soon.

So I was wondering if I can safely update the firmware without destroying completely the picture quality :-)

thanks for the help,

Ben
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post #5697 of 5978 Old 10-04-2019, 02:02 AM
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Hello guys noob question :-)

it is safe to update the firmware and leaving everything untouched and still enjoying a good picture ?

My projector/screen was calibrated a while ago by @Gordon but I don't the means to ask him to come over anytime soon.

So I was wondering if I can safely update the firmware without destroying completely the picture quality :-)

thanks for the help,

Ben
I'm sure Gordon will guide you through any changes he may recommend you to make, based on the calibration he completed for you. I would recommend you contact him privately.
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post #5698 of 5978 Old 10-04-2019, 02:15 AM
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I'm sure Gordon will guide you through any changes he may recommend you to make, based on the calibration he completed for you. I would recommend you contact him privately.
thanks for the recommendation and I did as you suggested.

I was wondering if Jim or anybody else expert in the radiance can give a bit of insights on this.
Recently I've seen so many new options and tweaks that honestly I do not know where to start :-)

so I was hoping for an official answer from Jim or anybody else like "yes you can update ... you won't get the best but surely not worse" :-)

does it make sense ?

thanks for the help anyway.

Ben
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post #5699 of 5978 Old 10-04-2019, 04:34 AM
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Are shape and transition disabled with latest release ? I’m not seeing any change to the image regardless of content
No, they are not disabled. But now they only seem to work in specific scenes.

But with my dtm settings I could not see ANY changes while altering the d-pad level. Anybody else with that issue?

Last edited by Eventidal; 10-04-2019 at 05:24 AM.
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post #5700 of 5978 Old 10-04-2019, 05:05 AM
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thanks for the recommendation and I did as you suggested.

I was wondering if Jim or anybody else expert in the radiance can give a bit of insights on this.
Recently I've seen so many new options and tweaks that honestly I do not know where to start :-)

so I was hoping for an official answer from Jim or anybody else like "yes you can update ... you won't get the best but surely not worse" :-)

does it make sense ?

thanks for the help anyway.

Ben

for clarification. you can update then reset the hdr tonemap settings to defaults then put dpad to 4 and you wont be far out. look at what your cms hdr max light is currently at and then set ratio to give you a value 1/3rd of it.
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