New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 198 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5911 of 6653 Old 11-02-2019, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
There's quite a lot of 2.0 out there these days, lots of series on Netflix seemed to be being made in it. I quite like it for stuff like House of Cards etc. It's not a movie but it's also not football...

.

Yeah here’s some info on the 2.0 usage. And there have been more since this article.

https://vashivisuals.com/the-hot-new...-aspect-ratio/




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post #5912 of 6653 Old 11-02-2019, 07:29 PM
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post #5913 of 6653 Old 11-02-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Correct the Lumagen AA nailed it @ 2.0, in fact I have seen movies on Kscape with the wrong Aspect Ratio listed on Kscape where the Lumagen got it correct. I've yet to see the Lumagen AA miss !!!!
Same for me. Radiance Pro's auto aspect is great in particular for so much 2.0 stuff these days on streaming.
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post #5914 of 6653 Old 11-03-2019, 07:41 AM
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I’ve never played with the AA feature. Is there any benefit if I have a 16x9 screen and don’t mask or have an external lens?


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post #5915 of 6653 Old 11-03-2019, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE-C View Post
I watched the new MIB on 4K UHD disc a few nights ago and the light output variations happened throughout the whole movie.
At first I thought it was the laser dimming on the JVC 4500 or maybe my cables or Blu-ray player so I tried changing them to no avail.
I tried a few other movies and they played with no issues.
Then I came here to read that it was an issue with the latest firmware.
As MIB has a lot of black/ white scene changes it may be a good one for Jim to check out as he makes changes to the DTM.
I've only had a chance to watch " Shaun Of The Dead " and " Yesterday " on 4K. I have not seen this issue with either title.
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post #5916 of 6653 Old 11-03-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mskreis View Post
I’ve never played with the AA feature. Is there any benefit if I have a 16x9 screen and don’t mask or have an external lens?
If you have a 16:9 screen and don't have any masking then the main use you can put it to is making wider than 16:9 content "auto zoom" to fill the screen height.

I think you might also be able to set it up to shift scope images to the bottom of the screen instead of being in the middle, which can minimize the appearance of the scope bars (you tend not to notice the top bar so much if the bottom one is gone). It can also make it quite cheap to do DIY masking - if you shift scope content to the bottom of the screen you only need a motorised black rollerblind to do an inexpensive masking system. I say think as I've not tried setting that up (as my screen does mask top and bottom).
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post #5917 of 6653 Old 11-03-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Same for me. Radiance Pro's auto aspect is great in particular for so much 2.0 stuff these days on streaming.
Which setting is preferred? I was going to go through some settings today’s and wanted to check this out.

HDMI (only) or HDMI plus Image based auto aspect? Thanks.

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post #5918 of 6653 Old 11-03-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Which setting is preferred? I was going to go through some settings today’s and wanted to check this out.

HDMI (only) or HDMI plus Image based auto aspect? Thanks.
The (fairly recently added) image only works better often. Some set top boxes send unhelpful things in the HDMI signalling which will prevent the auto aspect working right on that source.

You'll always (I believe) want to have Image enabled. Most of the useful AA detection comes from the Image analysis which looks at the frame and figures out if you're likely looking at a change of aspect.
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post #5919 of 6653 Old 11-03-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If you have a 16:9 screen and don't have any masking then the main use you can put it to is making wider than 16:9 content "auto zoom" to fill the screen height.

I think you might also be able to set it up to shift scope images to the bottom of the screen instead of being in the middle, which can minimize the appearance of the scope bars (you tend not to notice the top bar so much if the bottom one is gone). It can also make it quite cheap to do DIY masking - if you shift scope content to the bottom of the screen you only need a motorised black rollerblind to do an inexpensive masking system. I say think as I've not tried setting that up (as my screen does mask top and bottom).
That’s what I do. I have both a retractable screen and a second retractable mask all hidden in a soffit. My control system reads the aspect ratio and takes appropriate action. All completely automated. For 2.4, moves the image to the bottom and triggers the down masking system. For 1.85, uses AA to fill to 16:9. When I’m watching a Kscape 2.4 movie and go back to the movie titles screen, it switches back to 16:9 and raises the mask. Gives me the maximum screen size as we watch a lot of sports, play games, etc. as well as movies. SJ
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post #5920 of 6653 Old 11-04-2019, 05:15 AM
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Looking for some feedback on settings. Watched Shazam yesterday evening and found some scenes much too bright.

I have a JVC RS620 at 10' from a Stewart ST100 screen in a batcave. A light meter from Amazon reads 154 nits to the screen in HDR high-lamp mode with iris wide open.

I have set Display Max Light at 890 nits, Dpad at 4 and Low Set Ratio I have been switching between 15 - 24. Seems like lower numbers bring down the highs. I have also changed Brightness in the projector to -3 to try and get better contrast.

DTM looks very good but some scenes are pretty bright (the Meg is a bright movie, Shazam, etc). Any feedback on what to tune? Thx

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post #5921 of 6653 Old 11-04-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Which setting is preferred? I was going to go through some settings today’s and wanted to check this out.

HDMI (only) or HDMI plus Image based auto aspect? Thanks.
Image only
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post #5922 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 06:50 AM
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Direct Selection of CMS memory in LightSpace

Hi @All Radiance Pro users who also use LightSpace

Light Illusion has implemented a long-cherished wish of mine and many others for the Radiance Pro.
In LightSpace you can now directly select and switch the CMS memory (CMS0 - CMS7) of Radiance.

I just tested the beta version and it works fine, so the function can be integrated into the next release.
The selection of the CMS memory in LightSpace is done in the option menu for Radiance Pro:



I think this new feature is helpful because you don't have to look for the Radiance Pro remote control anymore just to switch the CMS memory.

Light Illusion supports a lot of devices with LightSpace and has countless interfaces to maintain. Therefore not every wish can be fulfilled immediately.
Nevertheless, Steve Shaw and his team still have an open ear for ideas and suggestions from the circle of users. This is not the case everywhere and it makes working with Light Illusion so enjoyable and productive.
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post #5923 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 09:39 AM
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Watching Netflix from the Apple 4k box through the Lumagen to my JVC NX7 projector and I’m getting what seems like a slight stutter every now and again. Anyone else getting something like this?
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post #5924 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des511 View Post
Watching Netflix from the Apple 4k box through the Lumagen to my JVC NX7 projector and I’m getting what seems like a slight stutter every now and again. Anyone else getting something like this?
I got this exact same issue watching "The King" last night on Netflix. I will talk with Lumagen about it today.

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post #5925 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 09:52 AM
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Update on the frame dropping/stutter with Netflix. I tested the same movie with my OLED downstairs playing directly from my ATV4K. Same stutter. So it looks like Netflix is doing some kind of frame rate conversion (output is 23.976) or something else is going on. But Radiance doesn't look to be the culprit.

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post #5926 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Update on the frame dropping/stutter with Netflix. I tested the same movie with my OLED downstairs playing directly from my ATV4K. Same stutter. So it looks like Netflix is doing some kind of frame rate conversion (output is 23.976) or something else is going on. But Radiance doesn't look to be the culprit.
I've not tried that title, and I'm not sure if it is this issue you are seeing, but note that some Netflix content is 24.00p - which the AppleTV cannot output at native framerate - it has to output at 23.976p which means a dropped frame every 42s or so. It has a similar issue with 60p vs 59.94p, but 60p content is very uncommon.

There are some test streams in the Netflix library for all the rates that you can check - search "Test Patterns" from the search UI.

Some recent titles that are affected:
El Camino: A Breaking Bad Movie
Dolemite Is My Name
Bird Box
Triple Frontier
Murder Mystery
Dark
Shaft
Sand Castle
The Red Sea Diving Resort
Dark Tourist

Samsung UHD players do correctly switch to 24.00p output for the above, so if you have one of those then you can check the title in question and look at the output; if it switches to 24.00p then you know why the AppleTV is dropping frames.
Sony players also switch if configured to do so, but only for 23.976 vs 24p. Everything else is played back at 59.94p, including 25p (which is pretty tragic looking).

The only option if you have to use an AppleTV that minimizes the stutter is (rather counter intuitively) to disable rate matching. This converts 24.00p to 59.94p and your eye will usually lose the dropped frames necessary because the cadence is already ruined by the 3:2 pulldown that just occasionally changes to 2:2 for 24.00p content.

Unfortunately on the AppleTV even the Developer HUD won't accurately tell you the framerate for most streaming content so you have to try another player that is known to behave itself if you want to be sure this is the issue.
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post #5927 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I've not tried that title, and I'm not sure if it is this issue you are seeing, but note that some Netflix content is 24.00p - which the AppleTV cannot output at native framerate - it has to output at 23.976p which means a dropped frame every 42s or so. It has a similar issue with 60p vs 59.94p, but 60p content is very uncommon.

There are some test streams in the Netflix library for all the rates that you can check - search "Test Patterns" from the search UI.

Some recent titles that are affected:
El Camino: A Breaking Bad Movie
Dolemite Is My Name
Bird Box
Triple Frontier
Murder Mystery
Dark
Shaft
Sand Castle
The Red Sea Diving Resort
Dark Tourist

Samsung UHD players do correctly switch to 24.00p output for the above, so if you have one of those then you can check the title in question and look at the output; if it switches to 24.00p then you know why the AppleTV is dropping frames.
Sony players also switch if configured to do so, but only for 23.976 vs 24p. Everything else is played back at 59.94p, including 25p (which is pretty tragic looking).

The only option if you have to use an AppleTV that minimizes the stutter is (rather counter intuitively) to disable rate matching. This converts 24.00p to 59.94p and your eye will usually lose the dropped frames necessary because the cadence is already ruined by the 3:2 pulldown that just occasionally changes to 2:2 for 24.00p content.

Unfortunately on the AppleTV even the Developer HUD won't accurately tell you the framerate for most streaming content so you have to try another player that is known to behave itself if you want to be sure this is the issue.
Well that explains it, thanks! Output for The King, which is a Netflix original movie, is 23.976 when you check it on the Radiance. So definitely an issue with that one and why I see it on the OLED as well. I bought a Roku Ultra about a week ago to test as I wanted to see if I can find a workaround for the ATV problem of changing metadata constantly with DV content. The Roku didn't have this problem but it also didn't support Atmos from Netflix of Apple content (they have the Apple TV app to access your iTunes library), so it wasn't the solution I was hoping for. Feels like every single streaming box solution has a gotcha. Frustrating.

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post #5928 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Well that explains it, thanks! Output for The King, which is a Netflix original movie, is 23.976 when you check it on the Radiance. So definitely an issue with that one and why I see it on the OLED as well. I bought a Roku Ultra about a week ago to test as I wanted to see if I can find a workaround for the ATV problem of changing metadata constantly with DV content. The Roku didn't have this problem but it also didn't support Atmos from Netflix of Apple content (they have the Apple TV app to access your iTunes library), so it wasn't the solution I was hoping for. Feels like every single streaming box solution has a gotcha. Frustrating.
I'll check that title later on my Samsung to be sure as I'm interested in this issue, as not all Netflix originals are affected, but I think that because they're no longer constrained to having to have an NTSC release (the reason for the 23.976p rate in the first place) a lot of post places aren't converting the 24.00p package to 23.976p any more.

I didn't think the Roku could correctly support 24.00p, but I could certainly be wrong there.

It has become a pet annoyance of mine. Apple even have a few 24.00p titles in the itunes library that don't play back properly. Highlander 30th Anniversary is one such title.

The Samsung UHD player is pretty faultless in Netflix were it not for the lack of Atmos streaming. I might pick up a new Shield to try that again, but their "auto" framerate isn't as yet auto and and relies on a 3rd party app to do full auto framerate switching. plus there are bugs with correct colourspace output for HDR vs SDR content.

As you say, it is generally very frustrating. You can't help but feel that these video players really should start with the basics, like, errr, playing video properly... before moving on to other trivia. Such is the world we live in that expecting video to play properly gets you branded some sort of unreasonable fanatic in some of the threads on here!
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post #5929 of 6653 Old 11-05-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Well that explains it, thanks! Output for The King, which is a Netflix original movie, is 23.976 when you check it on the Radiance.
Just checked, here it is output from the Samsung UHD player. Confirmed for certain as a 24.00p title, so "expected behaviour" on current AppleTV
Add it to the list of annoyances with AppleTV playback, along with stupid metadata for some DV content. Maybe they'll fix it one day - though perhaps it needs new hardware.

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post #5930 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 08:15 AM
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post #5931 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 08:54 AM
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I'm also experiencing occasional micro stutters, through from a Kaliesdcape Strato to the Radiance (4k/HDR titles). Very difficult to track down, as its not repeatable or consistent - even on the same titles.

Appears the Radiance gets a little glitchy occasionally for some reason. When I shutdown the system and check again later in the day or a following day, it likely won't be there. I've also seen occasional glitchiness as slightly fuzzed/distorted video, color mis-mapping, and heavy banding. Power cycling the Radiance clears these glitches, so I'm suspecting the micro stutter every few minutes in my case may fall under the same umbrella...

I'm also seeing a lot of brightness changes with DTM, so hoping that gets fixed soon.

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post #5932 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I'm also experiencing occasional micro stutters, through from a Kaliesdcape Strato to the Radiance (4k/HDR titles). Very difficult to track down, as its not repeatable or consistent - even on the same titles.



Appears the Radiance gets a little glitchy occasionally for some reason. When I shutdown the system and check again later in the day or a following day, it likely won't be there. I've also seen occasional glitchiness as slightly fuzzed/distorted video, color mis-mapping, and heavy banding. Power cycling the Radiance clears these glitches, so I'm suspecting the micro stutter every few minutes in my case may fall under the same umbrella...



I'm also seeing a lot of brightness changes with DTM, so hoping that gets fixed soon.


I agree with u about the brightness changes i notice this many time since last upgrade


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post #5933 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I'm also experiencing occasional micro stutters, through from a Kaliesdcape Strato to the Radiance (4k/HDR titles). Very difficult to track down, as its not repeatable or consistent - even on the same titles.

Appears the Radiance gets a little glitchy occasionally for some reason. When I shutdown the system and check again later in the day or a following day, it likely won't be there. I've also seen occasional glitchiness as slightly fuzzed/distorted video, color mis-mapping, and heavy banding. Power cycling the Radiance clears these glitches, so I'm suspecting the micro stutter every few minutes in my case may fall under the same umbrella...

I'm also seeing a lot of brightness changes with DTM, so hoping that gets fixed soon.
I have the exact same thing happening regarding the micro stutters. I have being trying to solve it for the past few weeks and was about to contact the calibrator who supplied and calibrated it when I had to unplug it yesterday and the micro stutters have gone for now. Maybe it needs unplugging every now and then to get rid of the electrical build up inside.
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post #5934 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des511 View Post
I have the exact same thing happening regarding the micro stutters. I have being trying to solve it for the past few weeks and was about to contact the calibrator who supplied and calibrated it when I had to unplug it yesterday and the micro stutters have gone for now. Maybe it needs unplugging every now and then to get rid of the electrical build up inside.
It's far from certain, but at times I wonder if it happens after I access the Lumagen menu's rather heavily and make certain changes (to experiment with different options)...

If you notice calling up menus can often result in a slight micro-stutter of the live video behind the video... the issue is sort of like that...

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post #5935 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 09:47 AM
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Well that explains it, thanks! Output for The King, which is a Netflix original movie, is 23.976 when you check it on the Radiance. So definitely an issue with that one and why I see it on the OLED as well. I bought a Roku Ultra about a week ago to test as I wanted to see if I can find a workaround for the ATV problem of changing metadata constantly with DV content. The Roku didn't have this problem but it also didn't support Atmos from Netflix of Apple content (they have the Apple TV app to access your iTunes library), so it wasn't the solution I was hoping for. Feels like every single streaming box solution has a gotcha. Frustrating.
Roku is currently waiting on Netflix to implement atmos. That is all that is keeping Roku from having atmos on Netflix. Roku does do atmos on Amazon Prime.
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post #5936 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Roku is currently waiting on Netflix to implement atmos. That is all that is keeping Roku from having atmos on Netflix. Roku does do atmos on Amazon Prime.
Did Roku state that? That would be good news. It also works with Vudu - I have the Dolby demos still in my library before they made them unavailable to new customers.
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post #5937 of 6653 Old 11-06-2019, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Roku is currently waiting on Netflix to implement atmos. That is all that is keeping Roku from having atmos on Netflix. Roku does do atmos on Amazon Prime.
I think there is at least some old info in that table - Shield has Atmos in Netflix now.

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post #5938 of 6653 Old 11-07-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
I agree with u about the brightness changes i notice this many time since last upgrade


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The brightness changes are a known issue. Pat has been working on the HLG update and I was told he has a fix for the brightness changes as well. He is working on an updated FPGA to implement these changes so expect to see it pretty soon.
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post #5939 of 6653 Old 11-07-2019, 12:17 PM
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Good to hear! I hope the stutter while accessing the menu will be gone too!
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post #5940 of 6653 Old 11-07-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The brightness changes are a known issue. Pat has been working on the HLG update and I was told he has a fix for the brightness changes as well. He is working on an updated FPGA to implement these changes so expect to see it pretty soon.


That’s great ..

Thank u Kris


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