New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 6077 Old 12-02-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The 1.85A was for anamorphic DVD back in the day. So the proper one is alt+1.85 for today’s displays.
Thanks, Kris!

Any insight as to whether something has changed here, though? I've never had to hit Alt+1.85 in years of using first a Radiance XS and now a Radiance Pro, but now I'm seeing this vertical compression happening.

Also, even when I do hit Alt+1.85, when I go into the menus, it is still showing me "1.85A".

Thanks again.

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post #6062 of 6077 Old 12-02-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
Lumagen Output 3840x2160p at 23.98Hz, my Benq LK990 picture has a slight shake to it. This doesn't happen at 59.94
manual says it supports 2160/24P 3840 x 2160 Vertical Frequency 24 Hz Horizontal 54 kHz Pixel Frequency 297MHz


I've tried changing every toggle I could find on the lumagen and can't get it to be a non shaky picture at 23.98 or 24 Hz. 25 I'm find.

when I do Menu 0870 to turn on auto output mode and the roku or appletv goes from a tv show to a movie that's in 24p, output either goes to 23.98 or 24 depending on content.

When I do MENU 0874 Set output as 4k50/4k59.94, 18 GHz max, based on input rate, with rate match off

it'll take any 24 or 23.98 content to 59.94 and picture is perfect. So that means the lumagen is doing the 3:2 pulldown right? shouldn't I be watching things at 24 if it's a 24 content?

I was looking at changing the Display Timing setting? but dont know what to change.. thoughts?
I m not sure if anyone answered you , bit it is not the lumagen, i have the LK970 and when i took it to do the firmware updates it started having that shaking image at 23/24hz , and it doesnt do it at 25+ hz.
So i reverted back to 1.0.1 and everything works perfectly.

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post #6063 of 6077 Old 12-02-2019, 12:55 PM
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Guys when creating 3dlut with HTPC, should i use video level full (0-255) in my nvidia control panel and limited ( 16-235 ) in lumagen and projector ?
With madVR it is recommended to use this combination so i m not sure if it the same concept with lumagen.

Also does Lumagen have an option to detect black bars and shift the image to the bottom of the screen automatically?

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post #6064 of 6077 Old 12-02-2019, 01:13 PM
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I guess there were a few bugs discovered, looking forward to this release
If it takes much longer, it will be a Festivus Miracle !
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post #6065 of 6077 Old 12-02-2019, 05:45 PM
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The release is just about ready. It had some rather significant updates in it that changed a lot of the way things were being done under the hood. This revealed a few issues that have been getting dealt with. The issues are small (I doubt hardly anyone would have noticed them), but Lumagen wanted to be sure to get them resolved before hand. I have actually suggested that Lumagen updates its default settings for the tone map to different settings now because of the performance is quite different (in a good way).

I think most will be quite pleased with the end result. It eliminated all of the little niggles I see with some really difficult material that I thought would never get fixed (due to the nature of how something dynamic works with no way to frame buffer). Color reproduction is also quite a bit better.

So hopefully not too much longer!
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post #6066 of 6077 Old 12-02-2019, 07:09 PM
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Thanks Kris!


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post #6067 of 6077 Old 12-03-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
So hopefully not too much longer!
Just in time for Kris to visit my home for a calibration...looking forward to it Kris...
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post #6068 of 6077 Old 12-03-2019, 04:27 PM
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I know Kris will let his customers know if we need to make any changes whenever this new firmware drops...
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post #6069 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The release is just about ready. It had some rather significant updates in it that changed a lot of the way things were being done under the hood.
Can you ask your contact for their opinion of histogram shaped tone mapping (HSTM) algorithms? I suppose I'm wondering if Lumagen's upcoming DTM improvements are virtually insignificant tweaks compare to the advances in MadVR.

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post #6070 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 03:07 PM
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Can you ask your contact for their opinion of histogram shaped tone mapping (HSTM) algorithms? I suppose I'm wondering if Lumagen's upcoming DTM improvements are virtually insignificant tweaks compare to the advances in MadVR.
HSTM is just an approach to tone mapping. I imagine Madshi is taking advantage of the fact that he can frame buffer, the Lumagen cannot do this. I'm excited to see what it brings to the image, but until I can do a good comparison side by side, it is hard to say how much something like that will make a difference. It sounds (from what I've read) like he is looking at local contrast differences and enhancing them (this is what Darbee did).

For the Lumagen we have been doing comparisons with a industry professional on the authoring/mastering side that is using a Lumagen with a Dolby Cinema projector and comparing the results of the Lumagen tone mapping not only to their in house regrades but also to a Pulsar in the same room to see how the balance is maintained. He's been testing for Lumagen for some time now and has said that the tone mapping Lumagen is performing now is better that what their own tools outside of Dolby's full grading can do and in many respects they like it more than the regrade. So I'd say that is a nice reinforcement of the performance I am seeing here as well. The advancements in Lumagen's tone map over the last month or so have been pretty significant and the full fruit of that will be released with this upcoming build.

I'm very excited to see what the Envy brings to the table and doing some tone mapping comparisons. I expect to see differences between the two for sure, the question is how much difference is there. I am also looking forward to seeing their scaling performance both for upscaling and downscaling. I've always heard such high praise, so I'm excited to see for myself at some point.
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post #6071 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 03:10 PM
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I know Kris will let his customers know if we need to make any changes whenever this new firmware drops...
Changes are not particularly necessary, but with the new build you can run the DPAD and DMAX more aggressively if you want. The existing settings would be fine though and still provide great results.
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post #6072 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
HSTM is just an approach to tone mapping. I imagine Madshi is taking advantage of the fact that he can frame buffer, the Lumagen cannot do this. I'm excited to see what it brings to the image, but until I can do a good comparison side by side, it is hard to say how much something like that will make a difference. It sounds (from what I've read) like he is looking at local contrast differences and enhancing them (this is what Darbee did).

For the Lumagen we have been doing comparisons with a industry professional on the authoring/mastering side that is using a Lumagen with a Dolby Cinema projector and comparing the results of the Lumagen tone mapping not only to their in house regrades but also to a Pulsar in the same room to see how the balance is maintained.
Interesting. I'll be following the Lumagen thread as well. If your industry pro works in a major studio home video department other than Sony, then I'd sure like to know if they intend to figure out how to catch up with them (for back catalog UHD excellence).

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I am also looking forward to seeing their scaling performance both for upscaling and downscaling. I've always heard such high praise, so I'm excited to see for myself at some point.
I'll be screening more 1080P Blu-ray than UHD for years to come, so this is a big deal for me. If one or the other has an insurmountable advantage, then I'll want to know!

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post #6073 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 03:37 PM
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Interesting. I'll be following the Lumagen thread as well.




I'll be screening more 1080P Blu-ray than UHD for years to come, so this is a big deal for me. If one or the other has an insurmountable advantage, then I'll want to know!
The same industry engineer did comparisons of the upscaling of the Lumagen, MadVR and their in house scaling (which is NOT on the fly). Their system takes a 4K source and downscales to 1080p and then use analysis to see how close the upscale is to the original from different solutions. Their solution (which is what a lot of studios use for their 4K HDR releases that are NOT from a true 4K DI) score really high, but again is not an on the fly solution like Lumagen and MadVR or other consumer resources. When comparing MadVR (HTPC version on a $20K in studio PC and Lumagen to their solution that didn't do nearly as well, but I would expect that given they are a totally different process. When comparing MadVR to the Lumagen directly the difference reported by the analysis was barely anything with the Lumagen scoring I think 2 points higher. MadVR did better with downscaling and one other type of scaling though (I don't remember off hand how much difference). This test also doesn't take into account subjective preference for any display enhancements, which I know MadVR has, so subjectively that may give different results to consumers comparing directly with different enhancements engaged.
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post #6074 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 03:52 PM
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Changes are not particularly necessary, but with the new build you can run the DPAD and DMAX more aggressively if you want. The existing settings would be fine though and still provide great results.


Which setting is DMAX?


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post #6075 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Changes are not particularly necessary, but with the new build you can run the DPAD and DMAX more aggressively if you want. The existing settings would be fine though and still provide great results.


Which setting is DMAX?


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Sorry, Display Max Light/Ratio. Basically you can run a more aggressive setting for what your light level is without artifacts for those that like a brighter image.
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post #6076 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 05:17 PM
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(I try not to post in this thread, but gotta chime in here for a second. I apologize for the intrusion.)

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Their system takes a 4K source and downscales to 1080p and then use analysis to see how close the upscale is to the original
Which is what every scientific paper about upscaling does to compare the quality of different algorithms. And this is exactly the type of artificial test where neural network upscaling shines, because that's exactly what it was trained for. Consequently, I would bet a lot on that the industry engineer didn't actually use madVR's highest quality (neural network) upscaling in his test.
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post #6077 of 6077 Old 12-04-2019, 05:37 PM
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(I try not to post in this thread, but gotta chime in here for a second. I apologize for the intrusion.)


Which is what every scientific paper about upscaling does to compare the quality of different algorithms. And this is exactly the type of artificial test where neural network upscaling shines, because that's exactly what it was trained for. Consequently, I would bet a lot on that the industry engineer didn't actually use madVR's highest quality (neural network) upscaling in his test.
Hey Madshi! That very well may be. I was not there for this testing (I have never been in their production suite), so I can't vouch at all for how MadVR or the Lumagen he was using was setup.
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