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post #6541 of 8034 Old 01-10-2020, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
I have a JVC RS620 and when I first received my Lumagen I was a little confused about the fact that it would send HDR in an SDR container and I wouldn't use the HDR mode on the projector per se.

The Lumagen will send the HDR flag so the projector will switch into HDR mode automatically but you will want to use an SDR 2.4 gamma - I used the existing HDR mode to allow the auto-switch and changed the gamma in that mode from HDR to 2.4 and kept the BT2020 color profile (with filter) and the result is perfect.
I tried setting up a user mode as you've mentioned, but the Lumagen is apparently not sending the HDR flag, so no switch is occurring for my NX7. Could you assist me in getting the Lumagen to send the HDR flag? BTW, what color temperature did you select for this SDR BT2020 mode: HDR10 or 6500? Thanks!

EDIT: No help needed! Craig Rounds walked me through the Lumagen menus and the NX7 auto switches to the new user mode with HDR content (but still output as SDR BT.2020).
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JVC NX7, Yamaha RX-A3080 (2 discrete 7.2.4 speaker layouts: Dolby Atmos & DTS:X), Lumagen Radiance Pro 4240, 127" 16x9 Stewart StudioTek 130 G4 fixed screen, Panasonic UB420, Sony UBP-X800, ATV4K, Roku Ultra, TiVo Bolt Vox, Vandersteen Model 3 Signatures & VCC-1 Signature, Atlantic Technology (side, rear, front height & overhead) surrounds, SVS SB-2000 (2), Clark Synthesis Tactile Bass Transducers (2), Polk PSW-12

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post #6542 of 8034 Old 01-10-2020, 02:50 PM
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Hi, could I ask how many of you are using Lumagen radiance PRO in combination with HTPC MadVR Nvidia GPU? Whether it makes any sense and added some values. HTPC KODI/Gamer have very universally application.


Thank you
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post #6543 of 8034 Old 01-10-2020, 07:17 PM
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I will try to touch on the topics since my last posts.

In an attempt to simplify setup (and reduce my time on the phone helping setup), I asked Patrick to change the Global EDID to always report HDR/HLG/2020, and turn on HDR Mapping by default, in 122819. Unfortunately it looks like the TVs and projectors are ignoring the Rec 2020 flag (a major mistake in my opinion) and so do not go to Rec 2020 when the Pro output is set to SDR2020 automatically. So people were not actually getting Rec 2020 in the Projector/TV for HDR. Not good. Unfortunately it means my plans to reduce my support load are stymied. So back to default being HDR in gets you HDR out with Tone Mapping off. We will leave the HDR/HLG/2020 EDID flags enabled back to sources so a small victory for reduced setup time.

We will be adding a few more "direct codes" for me, and others, to help get setup quickly. More on this at a later date.

If you just received your unit it had older software due to an internal miss communication. One of our internal only tests was broken in 120419 and 121819. I asked out test person to just use 100619 for that test, and she thought I meant test and ship with 100619. Apologizes for this. We have addressed this and are now using 122819. There are improvements in 122819, so you may want to consider upgrading if you received your unit recently.

Here is a setup tip for the Harmony remote products. The correct way to select an input with a programmable remote is to send the "Input" code, and then the input number. Unfortunately Harmony did not include the "Input" button. If nothing is on the screen sending just the input number works, but if anything is on the screen and you send just a number it will not work and could possibly do something unwanted. The work around is to send a "CLR" code to clear any onscreen display first, and then the input digit. This is especially important after power-on since the OSD should the input on screen, requiring the Input command first, but the CLR command does the job by taking down the OSD so then just the input number is needed. As part of this, I tell my Harmony Elite "no input select needed to the Pro", but then I add both the CLR and input number as commands to achieve a source change. This saves the bit of time needed to send the number by itself and perhaps might prevent an unwanted option.

Someone asked if deinterlacing applied to 480p. It does not. Deinterlacing is for only interlaced sources. There are 480i60, 576i50, 1080i50, and 1080i60. Progressive sources (480p, 720p, 1080p, 2160p) do not need deinterlacing. The Pro does have a "re-interlace" feature mostly used in Europe. In Europe (and elsewhere) many settop boxes only did a vertical pixel replication for 576i to 576p, instead of deinterlacing. The Pro re-interlacing detects the fields, internally converts back to interlaced, and then does its own deinterlacing.

Someone noted my earlier posts on Pro deinterlacing versus the "Gennum" in 1080 Radiance products. The Gennum has a diagonal filter which is good for sports like hockey with a pronounced line in the middle. The Pro does not have a diagonal filter. I think the Pro has the advantage for HD content and likely non-sports SD content over the Gennum since thePro deinterlacing is designed to "comb" much less often. I very much dislike combing for deinterlacing, and so I prefer the Pro deinterlacing.

To repeat something in one of my recent posts: We recommend that the sources be set to output content at the native resolution for the content, including SD content. Then the Pro NoRing(TM) scales up to 4k.

When we mention the Pro accepts SD content, it means all SD content.

I mentioned a 2XXX unit scaling to 1080 before going into the Pro mostly for completeness. I am not recommending you run out an buy a 2143 for this. as the different would be small. The Pro does a very good job scaling SD to 4k, and improving this further is on our to-do list. Not sure when we could get to this though.

On the question of noise reduction and enhancements: We plan to add spacial image enhancement, and spacial noise reduction. We do not plan to add temporal noise reduction. Now that we have ADTM well in hand these are high priority, right behind our planned pipeline precision improvement taking the entire pipeline to at least 12 bits (current front end is 10-bit).

The Pro "outputs HDR in a SDR container." For this output mode, only the JVC (that I know of) works with the trick of setting the HDR Flag on even through the Pro is outputs in SDR mode. As mentioned you select a Gamma = 2.4 in the JVC projector for the memory you select with this (I use the "HDR" mode, with Gamma in the Projector = 2.2 since it measured closet to 2.4). This does not work with other products. For example teh Sony forces it HDR tone mapping on if the HDR flag is set. No way to turn off its tone mapping in this case and you do not want to tone map twice.

Lots of little details. Hopefully I got them all.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

Last edited by jrp; 01-10-2020 at 07:21 PM.
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post #6544 of 8034 Old 01-10-2020, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
In an attempt to simplify setup (and reduce my time on the phone helping setup), I asked Patrick to change the Global EDID to always report HDR/HLG/2020, and turn on HDR Mapping by default, in 122819. Unfortunately it looks like the TVs and projectors are ignoring the Rec 2020 flag (a major mistake in my opinion) and so do not go to Rec 2020 when the Pro output is set to SDR2020 automatically. So people were not actually getting Rec 2020 in the Projector/TV for HDR. Not good. Unfortunately it means my plans to reduce my support load are stymied. So back to default being HDR in gets you HDR out with Tone Mapping off. We will leave the HDR/HLG/2020 EDID flags enabled back to sources so a small victory for reduced setup time.

I have a question about this. Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying, but it seems you're saying 122819 broke sdr2020?

I'm confused because in my setup I haven't noticed any difference with respect to this. My Sony still claims its getting 2020 when I bring up the info menu. And the lumagen status info still looks as it always has when I'm doing hdr->sdr.

Chris, slightly confused



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Theater 1: LG OLED55E6P, Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K, Dune HD Solo 4K
Theater 2: Sony VPL-VW885ES, Seymour Premier 16:9 128", Lumagen 4242, Oppo 103D (CFW) & 203, Apple TV 4K, Sony MDR-DS7500 Wireless Surround Headphones & Denon AVR-X6500H (7.2.4)
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post #6545 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
I will try to touch on the topics since my last posts.

In an attempt to simplify setup (and reduce my time on the phone helping setup), I asked Patrick to change the Global EDID to always report HDR/HLG/2020, and turn on HDR Mapping by default, in 122819. Unfortunately it looks like the TVs and projectors are ignoring the Rec 2020 flag (a major mistake in my opinion) and so do not go to Rec 2020 when the Pro output is set to SDR2020 automatically. So people were not actually getting Rec 2020 in the Projector/TV for HDR. Not good. Unfortunately it means my plans to reduce my support load are stymied. So back to default being HDR in gets you HDR out with Tone Mapping off. We will leave the HDR/HLG/2020 EDID flags enabled back to sources so a small victory for reduced setup time.

We will be adding a few more "direct codes" for me, and others, to help get setup quickly. More on this at a later date.

If you just received your unit it had older software due to an internal miss communication. One of our internal only tests was broken in 120419 and 121819. I asked out test person to just use 100619 for that test, and she thought I meant test and ship with 100619. Apologizes for this. We have addressed this and are now using 122819. There are improvements in 122819, so you may want to consider upgrading if you received your unit recently.

Here is a setup tip for the Harmony remote products. The correct way to select an input with a programmable remote is to send the "Input" code, and then the input number. Unfortunately Harmony did not include the "Input" button. If nothing is on the screen sending just the input number works, but if anything is on the screen and you send just a number it will not work and could possibly do something unwanted. The work around is to send a "CLR" code to clear any onscreen display first, and then the input digit. This is especially important after power-on since the OSD should the input on screen, requiring the Input command first, but the CLR command does the job by taking down the OSD so then just the input number is needed. As part of this, I tell my Harmony Elite "no input select needed to the Pro", but then I add both the CLR and input number as commands to achieve a source change. This saves the bit of time needed to send the number by itself and perhaps might prevent an unwanted option.

Someone asked if deinterlacing applied to 480p. It does not. Deinterlacing is for only interlaced sources. There are 480i60, 576i50, 1080i50, and 1080i60. Progressive sources (480p, 720p, 1080p, 2160p) do not need deinterlacing. The Pro does have a "re-interlace" feature mostly used in Europe. In Europe (and elsewhere) many settop boxes only did a vertical pixel replication for 576i to 576p, instead of deinterlacing. The Pro re-interlacing detects the fields, internally converts back to interlaced, and then does its own deinterlacing.

Someone noted my earlier posts on Pro deinterlacing versus the "Gennum" in 1080 Radiance products. The Gennum has a diagonal filter which is good for sports like hockey with a pronounced line in the middle. The Pro does not have a diagonal filter. I think the Pro has the advantage for HD content and likely non-sports SD content over the Gennum since thePro deinterlacing is designed to "comb" much less often. I very much dislike combing for deinterlacing, and so I prefer the Pro deinterlacing.

To repeat something in one of my recent posts: We recommend that the sources be set to output content at the native resolution for the content, including SD content. Then the Pro NoRing(TM) scales up to 4k.

When we mention the Pro accepts SD content, it means all SD content.

I mentioned a 2XXX unit scaling to 1080 before going into the Pro mostly for completeness. I am not recommending you run out an buy a 2143 for this. as the different would be small. The Pro does a very good job scaling SD to 4k, and improving this further is on our to-do list. Not sure when we could get to this though.

On the question of noise reduction and enhancements: We plan to add spacial image enhancement, and spacial noise reduction. We do not plan to add temporal noise reduction. Now that we have ADTM well in hand these are high priority, right behind our planned pipeline precision improvement taking the entire pipeline to at least 12 bits (current front end is 10-bit).

The Pro "outputs HDR in a SDR container." For this output mode, only the JVC (that I know of) works with the trick of setting the HDR Flag on even through the Pro is outputs in SDR mode. As mentioned you select a Gamma = 2.4 in the JVC projector for the memory you select with this (I use the "HDR" mode, with Gamma in the Projector = 2.2 since it measured closet to 2.4). This does not work with other products. For example teh Sony forces it HDR tone mapping on if the HDR flag is set. No way to turn off its tone mapping in this case and you do not want to tone map twice.

Lots of little details. Hopefully I got them all.
Thank you so much for the detail. At work most of our manufacturers are scared to provide high levels of detail about forthcoming changes. This is pretty rare and valuable in this day and age.
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post #6546 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
I will try to touch on the topics since my last posts.

In an attempt to simplify setup (and reduce my time on the phone helping setup), I asked Patrick to change the Global EDID to always report HDR/HLG/2020, and turn on HDR Mapping by default, in 122819. Unfortunately it looks like the TVs and projectors are ignoring the Rec 2020 flag (a major mistake in my opinion) and so do not go to Rec 2020 when the Pro output is set to SDR2020 automatically. So people were not actually getting Rec 2020 in the Projector/TV for HDR. Not good. Unfortunately it means my plans to reduce my support load are stymied. So back to default being HDR in gets you HDR out with Tone Mapping off. We will leave the HDR/HLG/2020 EDID flags enabled back to sources so a small victory for reduced setup time.

We will be adding a few more "direct codes" for me, and others, to help get setup quickly. More on this at a later date.

If you just received your unit it had older software due to an internal miss communication. One of our internal only tests was broken in 120419 and 121819. I asked out test person to just use 100619 for that test, and she thought I meant test and ship with 100619. Apologizes for this. We have addressed this and are now using 122819. There are improvements in 122819, so you may want to consider upgrading if you received your unit recently.

Here is a setup tip for the Harmony remote products. The correct way to select an input with a programmable remote is to send the "Input" code, and then the input number. Unfortunately Harmony did not include the "Input" button. If nothing is on the screen sending just the input number works, but if anything is on the screen and you send just a number it will not work and could possibly do something unwanted. The work around is to send a "CLR" code to clear any onscreen display first, and then the input digit. This is especially important after power-on since the OSD should the input on screen, requiring the Input command first, but the CLR command does the job by taking down the OSD so then just the input number is needed. As part of this, I tell my Harmony Elite "no input select needed to the Pro", but then I add both the CLR and input number as commands to achieve a source change. This saves the bit of time needed to send the number by itself and perhaps might prevent an unwanted option.

Someone asked if deinterlacing applied to 480p. It does not. Deinterlacing is for only interlaced sources. There are 480i60, 576i50, 1080i50, and 1080i60. Progressive sources (480p, 720p, 1080p, 2160p) do not need deinterlacing. The Pro does have a "re-interlace" feature mostly used in Europe. In Europe (and elsewhere) many settop boxes only did a vertical pixel replication for 576i to 576p, instead of deinterlacing. The Pro re-interlacing detects the fields, internally converts back to interlaced, and then does its own deinterlacing.

Someone noted my earlier posts on Pro deinterlacing versus the "Gennum" in 1080 Radiance products. The Gennum has a diagonal filter which is good for sports like hockey with a pronounced line in the middle. The Pro does not have a diagonal filter. I think the Pro has the advantage for HD content and likely non-sports SD content over the Gennum since thePro deinterlacing is designed to "comb" much less often. I very much dislike combing for deinterlacing, and so I prefer the Pro deinterlacing.

To repeat something in one of my recent posts: We recommend that the sources be set to output content at the native resolution for the content, including SD content. Then the Pro NoRing(TM) scales up to 4k.

When we mention the Pro accepts SD content, it means all SD content.

I mentioned a 2XXX unit scaling to 1080 before going into the Pro mostly for completeness. I am not recommending you run out an buy a 2143 for this. as the different would be small. The Pro does a very good job scaling SD to 4k, and improving this further is on our to-do list. Not sure when we could get to this though.

On the question of noise reduction and enhancements: We plan to add spacial image enhancement, and spacial noise reduction. We do not plan to add temporal noise reduction. Now that we have ADTM well in hand these are high priority, right behind our planned pipeline precision improvement taking the entire pipeline to at least 12 bits (current front end is 10-bit).

The Pro "outputs HDR in a SDR container." For this output mode, only the JVC (that I know of) works with the trick of setting the HDR Flag on even through the Pro is outputs in SDR mode. As mentioned you select a Gamma = 2.4 in the JVC projector for the memory you select with this (I use the "HDR" mode, with Gamma in the Projector = 2.2 since it measured closet to 2.4). This does not work with other products. For example teh Sony forces it HDR tone mapping on if the HDR flag is set. No way to turn off its tone mapping in this case and you do not want to tone map twice.

Lots of little details. Hopefully I got them all.

Hi JRP good luck ans I really appreciate your commitment about support and continuous in improvement of Radiance PRO. May I ask you if there will be some support for HDR10 + in the future update?


thank you
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post #6547 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeneas01 View Post
did you ever resolve this? i'm having the issue excpet my entire screen flashes green... like you i own a 4242 with 18g inputs, apple tv 4k, bjc active cable....
BTW my screen pretty much always flashes green when switching from SDR to HDR. Using Monoprice certified 2m for all interconnects at rack and Ruipro hybrid/fiber from Lumagen to projector. Just switched to the new microcode for 18Ghz outputs and the green is a bit more visible but havent had any instability/dropouts lately.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
JVC RS620 | 100" Stewart ST100 Screen | Panasonic UB900 | Lumagen Radiance Pro 4242
Atmos 7.3.4 | Denon 4300 | Outlaw M2200 for HTD Level 3 L/C/R & in-wall surrounds & atmos
3 x PE UM15-22 sealed subwoofers | Crown XLS 2502 | miniDSP HD
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post #6548 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 01:12 PM
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My Radiance Pro 4242-18g arrived this week and was bought from and preconfigured by @Kris Deering who subsequently walked me through the relevant config alterations to my JVC NX7 projector.

I want to comment on two things:
- the 4242-18g certainly improves the images I see from both 1080p and 4K HDR sources.
- Kris’ services made the attainment and system integration a breeze. Additionally I have an optimized solution quickly and hassle free because of his proficiency and expertise.

The Radiance Pro has enhanced my theatre, and professional services enabled me to realize it’s benefits almost immediately. I’d like to thank the manufacturer, and my dealer.
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post #6549 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
My Radiance Pro 4242-18g arrived this week and was bought from and preconfigured by @Kris Deering who subsequently walked me through the relevant config alterations to my JVC NX7 projector.

I want to comment on two things:
- the 4242-18g certainly improves the images I see from both 1080p and 4K HDR sources.
- Kris’ services made the attainment and system integration a breeze. Additionally I have an optimized solution quickly and hassle free because of his proficiency and expertise.

The Radiance Pro has enhanced my theatre, and profes
sional services enabled me to realize it’s benefits almost immediately. I’d like to thank the manufacturer, and my dealer.

Dittos to all of that!!

I owned the Radiance Pro 4242 for several months before I had Kris to my home media room to optimize the Radiance Pro and the rest of my system.
Kris' expertise with the Radiance Pro transformed complicated (for me) into simple/automatic via the straight forward remote control configs he set up for me.
Especially helpful as I switch back and forth between my two ceiling-mounted 16:9 and 240:1 screens depending upon circumstances.

Can't recommend Kris enough!
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JVC RS3000 in AeroLift 150, Paladin DCR lens, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Two Screens: Stewart ElectiScreen StudioTek 130G 153” 240:1 and Screen Innovations Motorized Series 5 Slate 1.2 120" 16:9, Rack: Anthem AVM-60, Oppo 203, Sony CX-7000ES BD Changer, two Anthem A-5's, Rotel 1075, Atmos 7.2.4: 7 Thiel PowerPoint 1.2's, 2 SVS SB-16 Ultra's, 4 Thiel PowerPlane 1.2's. Projector cabling: FIBBR + RUIPro 10M, Remote: URC MX-990.
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post #6550 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cargen View Post
Dittos to all of that!!

I owned the Radiance Pro 4242 for several months before I had Kris to my home media room to optimize the Radiance Pro and the rest of my system.
Kris' expertise with the Radiance Pro transformed complicated (for me) into simple/automatic via the straight forward remote control configs he set up for me.
Especially helpful as I switch back and forth between my two ceiling-mounted 16:9 and 240:1 screens depending upon circumstances.

Can't recommend Kris enough!

That is a VERY wide screen !!!
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post #6551 of 8034 Old 01-11-2020, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
I have a question about this. Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying, but it seems you're saying 122819 broke sdr2020?

I'm confused because in my setup I haven't noticed any difference with respect to this. My Sony still claims its getting 2020 when I bring up the info menu. And the lumagen status info still looks as it always has when I'm doing hdr->sdr.

Chris, slightly confused
The 122819 release *only* changes the Factory Defaults. It was my attempt to simplify setup. It would have worked if projectors and TVs actually did what they should do and pay attention to the Rec 2020 flag. They don't. So backing this change to default settings out in the next release.

If you already had your setup working there is no change (other than the DTM improvements in 122819).
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Lumagen
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post #6552 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 12:16 AM
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Tech Tip:

I believe I have touched on using SDR2020 for both CMS0 and CMS1 before, but if you do not have a JVC projector, you can simplify your interface, assuming your projector is reasonably accurate in Rec 2020 mode (e.g. Sony 4k projectors), by doing the following:

CMS0 is used for SDR 709 content, and would normally be set to Colorspace = SDR709. However since typically CMS1 (HDR content) is set to Colorspace = SDR2020, and since TVs/projectors apparently do not pay attention to the Rec 2020 Info Frame Flag, this means you have to somehow change the color format to get accurate colors. This is reasonably straight forward if you have a control system (e.g. Crestron, Control4, et. al.). However if you do not have a bidirectional control system (RS232 both to and from the Pro) you would have to do this manually.

By setting CMS0 to SDR2020 (with "Auto Convert" of color data enabled), this is the same format as the Pro would use for "HDR output in a SDR container." So if you set both CMS0 and CMS1 output to SDR2020, you do not need to change the projector color mode when switching to or from HDR. Nice if you have been doing this manually, since you can't forget, and you do not need to train others in your family to make the change.

In addition, if you want HDR to be brighter than SDR, you can turn the "White Level" down in CMS0 and leave the lamp mode the same as for HDR. These two changes together mean you would not have to make a manual change in the projector switching SDR to or from HDR.

====

As mentioned previously, if you have a projector that only can produce colors out to Rec 709 (or less), instead set both CMS0 and CMS1 Colorspace to SDR709, and enable Auto Convert of the color data. I have helped dealers and customers switch to SDR709 for both CMS0 and CMS1 for these type of projectors,and many cases report an instant improvement for HDR colors. The reason is it seems while many projectors report they can take Rec 2020, that they do not do the correct math to make these colors look as they should within the bounds of the projector's actual color Gamut. This also has the added advantage of not having to manually change the projectors color space as discussed above.
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Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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post #6553 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 12:40 AM
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On the topic of HDR10+:

We are considering adding HDR10+. However, I currently believe that the Pro's adaptive DTM is so good there may be little to no benefit from doing so.

HDR10+ has a MaxCLL per scene. However, given how poorly the studios are doing getting the single MaxCLL number for the entire movie correct, it remains to be seen if they can get the MaxCLL for every scene correct.

HDR10+ has only a handful of scene MaxCLL values available. Not quite sure why they decided to limit this so much.

The dynamic Metadata for HDR10+ is on a scene by scene basis (although I think it could be done on a frame by frame basis in the future). We have found that adapting every frame within every scene is very important.

The ADTM in the Radiance Pro selects the scene MaxCLL in 10 nit steps, and then the adaptation changes each frame's MaxCLL in as little as 10 nit steps.

====

Conclusion:

If we were to implement HDR10+ we would use its dynamic Metadata as a hint, but we would still be doing ADTM using the Radiance Pro algorithm on top of HDR10+.

Could the HDR10+ Metadata be more accurate than the Pro's ADTM analysis of the scene? Perhaps, but I do not think by much.

While the jury is still out on if we will implement HDR10+, it may be as Thanos, inevitable.

Jim Peterson
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post #6554 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle View Post
May I ask you if there will be some support for HDR10 + in the future update?
Out of interest - what sources are currently able to do HDR10+ over HDMI? I know some disc players are capable - are there any streaming providers outputting HDR10+ via players that could be plugged into a Radiance Pro via HDMI? Which ones? Thanks!
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post #6555 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 01:56 AM
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On the topic of HDR10+:

We are considering adding HDR10+.
That would be awesome. Would love to throw in a HDR10+ disc and compare it to ADTM.
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post #6556 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Tech Tip:

By setting CMS0 to SDR2020 (with "Auto Convert" of color data enabled), this is the same format as the Pro would use for "HDR output in a SDR container." So if you set both CMS0 and CMS1 output to SDR2020, you do not need to change the projector color mode when switching to or from HDR.
What´s the main benefit out of this? Faster sync times or better colour reproduction?
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post #6557 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 05:20 AM
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With some displays this will give faster sync times. If the LUT in the Pro is created to target 2020 well then probably no difference to little difference in colour accuracy i'd think. If no LUT in use and just using the displays REC2020 colour space then how accurate REC709 will be compared to the native REC709 space of the display depends entirely on how accurate both the REC709 colourspace and REC2020 colourspace are displayed on that device in the first place.
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post #6558 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
To get an accurate maximum light reading you need to measure with your color probe point at the screen. Not sure your "pixel" is capable of a good reading (although maybe it can. Not really familiar with it).

Note that a screen "gain" of 1.0 does not mean the screen reflects 100% of the light back (not even a mirror does this). What it means is the screen has the same reflectively of a matte sheet of white paper. With a "gain" of 1.4 you are getting 40% more light than off a sheet of paper (within the specified viewing angle). So multiplying the light approaching the screen with probe pointing back at the projector is definitely not an accurate way to figure out the light coming back off the screen.

If you tell me what projector you have, its Lumens rating, the screen size and the "gain" of the screen (1.4 per post), I might be able to give you an approximation of the maximum light output off the screen.
thanks, not sure how to measure light reflecting back from the screen with my phone since the phone uses the camera as the sensor but holding it in front of the screen (assuming a few inches away?) creates a shadow so not sure how you would do that? other posts i've read is you hold the meter sensor towards the projector at the screen. how would any sensor measure what's being reflected back from a projector without casting a shadow?

I have the benq LK990 rated at 6,000 lumens, 120" black diamond screen innovations ALR 1.4 gain.
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post #6559 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 06:44 PM
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can i use Gamma factor to change projector gamma from 2.2 to 2.4?

For SDR, I think I should be in 2.2 right? but for HDR 2.4? And rather than change projector settings, can I use gamma factor? So for cms0 for HDR content, does gamme factor of 1.09 multiply my current gamma of 2.2 on the projector to 2.398?

Just trying to automate things a bit so I don't have to do a projector blackout and programming of my control4 system.
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post #6560 of 8034 Old 01-12-2020, 07:16 PM
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I just noticed a problem with the auto aspect ratio function. The radiance pro fails to detect the aspect ratio of the 4k version of the movie "2001:A Space Odyssey" and shows it letterboxed in the middle of the screen.

Last edited by darksets; 01-13-2020 at 05:40 PM.
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post #6561 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle View Post
Hi, could I ask how many of you are using Lumagen radiance PRO in combination with HTPC MadVR Nvidia GPU? Whether it makes any sense and added some values.
Out of curiosity, I did this a few days ago. This experiment renewed my respect for the performance of the Radiance as a complete package. At this time, I see no advantage for me for an HTPC.

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post #6562 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Out of curiosity, I did this a few days ago. This experiment renewed my respect for the performance of the Radiance as a complete package. At this time, I see no advantage for me for an HTPC.
I know this is subjective, but how is your take on the DTM on the JVC compared to the madVR/Lumagen in your opinion?
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post #6563 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
I know this is subjective, but how is your take on the DTM on the JVC compared to the madVR/Lumagen in your opinion?



I personally see the difference between JVC DTM and Lumagen. Its looks thas JVC DTM cannot display as much detail as Lumagen while the image from Lumagen is very clear and natural.
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post #6564 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
To get an accurate maximum light reading you need to measure with your color probe point at the screen. Not sure your "pixel" is capable of a good reading (although maybe it can. Not really familiar with it).

Note that a screen "gain" of 1.0 does not mean the screen reflects 100% of the light back (not even a mirror does this). What it means is the screen has the same reflectively of a matte sheet of white paper. With a "gain" of 1.4 you are getting 40% more light than off a sheet of paper (within the specified viewing angle). So multiplying the light approaching the screen with probe pointing back at the projector is definitely not an accurate way to figure out the light coming back off the screen.

If you tell me what projector you have, its Lumens rating, the screen size and the "gain" of the screen (1.4 per post), I might be able to give you an approximation of the maximum light output off the screen.
thanks, not sure how to measure light reflecting back from the screen with my phone since the phone uses the camera as the sensor but holding it in front of the screen (assuming a few inches away?) creates a shadow so not sure how you would do that? other posts i've read is you hold the meter sensor towards the projector at the screen. how would any sensor measure what's being reflected back from a projector without casting a shadow?

I have the benq LK990 rated at 6,000 lumens, 120" black diamond screen innovations ALR 1.4 gain.
In order to measure off the screen u need to tilt the meter upward so it wont measure its own shadow, just aim it with a 110-120degree angle and put it around 3-4 feet back , this way it ll meausre it of the screen.
Not sure how accurate a phone is though, u could buy an i1d3 for not much and it ll give way better readings than a phone.

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post #6565 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
I know this is subjective, but how is your take on the DTM on the JVC compared to the madVR/Lumagen in your opinion?
Here is an example for Frame Adapt vs. DTM (prior to the current adaptive implementation on the Radiance).

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxta...8-0edaf8f81e27
Please note that this is not brightness matched, but with identical iris position in both cases. Both pictures were taken with identical exposure times (the Radiance image on screen is not too dark).

In my opinion Frame Adapt is a major step and nearly plug and play HDR. But it cannot match Radiance DTM. You see this especially when it comes to highlights.
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post #6566 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Out of curiosity, I did this a few days ago. This experiment renewed my respect for the performance of the Radiance as a complete package. At this time, I see no advantage for me for an HTPC.

I second what you 're saying, although I am still a little bit puzzled by the "Adaptive" option on some scenes Karl.
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post #6567 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
I second what you 're saying, although I am still a little bit puzzled by the "Adaptive" option on some scenes Karl.
Did you come across a sudden "dimming" within a scene?
I noticed this with Beta 120419, but not with 122819 yet.

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post #6568 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 04:24 AM
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Did you come across a sudden "dimming" within a scene?
I noticed this with Beta 120419, but not with 122819 yet.
Please see my post here. I am waiting for anyone to test the particular scene. I see a candidate.
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post #6569 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 04:40 AM
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Please see my post here. I am waiting for anyone to test the particular scene. I see a candidate.
Ah, I missed that. But to test it, it would require for me to have this episode in my collection.

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post #6570 of 8034 Old 01-13-2020, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
Please see my post here. I am waiting for anyone to test the particular scene. I see a candidate.
Could you please mention again what specific scene you're referring to? The only "torture test" scene that I could find posted by you was GOT, season 8, episode 3, but GOT is SDR on HBO (at least, for me) so adaptive HDR isn't relevant. Thanks.

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