New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 229 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6841 of 7011 Old 02-12-2020, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
My question would be:

Is the Envy considerably better than MadVR on a PC? Because I have not heard anyone saying that MadVR is by far superior to Lumagen´s DTM.
Very astute statement right there. It was mentioned that as of right now, the HTPC version of MadVR can have the same performance as Envy. The advantage of Envy is the ability to use on all sources and a fully optimized HTPC already configured for MadVR.
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post #6842 of 7011 Old 02-12-2020, 10:16 PM
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in my HT and for my requirements, the 4240 is not immediately apparent to be "a league above" how my system performed prior to adding the Lumagen.

And this is where subjective opinions come into play. I could not disagree more with the above statement. My Lumagen takes dark and sometimes almost unwatchable scenes and makes them significantly better - and improves bright scenes even more. A completely different and greatly improved viewing experience. (And then throw in Auto Aspect control for good measure). I have no reason to not believe that the $10,000 Envy is potentially "better" than Lumagen. For that price difference I would most certainly hope so. But once descriptors are put in front of the word "better", I tune out.

Fortunately, I am at a place with my video chain (Lumagen/RS4500/Panamorph) where making any improvements is just not under consideration. I have reached (actually, far surpassed) my "good enough" requirement.

That said, I actually do hope that the Envy is a bit better than the Lumagen. Competition is great for consumers.
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post #6843 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Really? I have heard it many many times before...and have seen it first hand.
You have seen MadVR with Lumagen´s latest DTM release side by side? Can you share your thoughts?
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post #6844 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
And this is where subjective opinions come into play. I could not disagree more with the above statement. My Lumagen takes dark and sometimes almost unwatchable scenes and makes them significantly better - and improves bright scenes even more. A completely different and greatly improved viewing experience. (And then throw in Auto Aspect control for good measure). I have no reason to not believe that the $10,000 Envy is potentially "better" than Lumagen. For that price difference I would most certainly hope so. But once descriptors are put in front of the word "better", I tune out.

Fortunately, I am at a place with my video chain (Lumagen/RS4500/Panamorph) where making any improvements is just not under consideration. I have reached (actually, far surpassed) my "good enough" requirement.

That said, I actually do hope that the Envy is a bit better than the Lumagen. Competition is great for consumers.
I honestly don't understand why you have an issue with my prior post since I specifically indicated that my opinion was based on my HT configuration and requirements. Your primary disagreement with my statement is the DTM advantage that the Radiance Pro provides over static tone mapping. My signature shows that I own the NX7 which now has the adaptive DTM firmware update. You own the the RS4500 which does not include that feature and so, unless you've had the opportunity to evaluate JVC adaptive DTM, you won't personally have that frame of reference. In my subjective review which was posted yesterday on the appropriate forum for NX7 owners I concluded: "Bottom line is, without question, that I would purchase the Lumagen for any PJ without on-board adaptive DTM, but probably not JVCs with current firmware if the costs (present and future) would be considered to be onerous." I stand by my statement that, other than adding some DTM convenience and increased accuracy of calibration secondary to LightSpace, the 4240 hasn't dramatically changed my viewing experience in my HT, as I own a fixed 16 x 9 screen without the need for AR control or support for an anamorphic lens.

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Last edited by docrog; 02-13-2020 at 06:37 AM.
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post #6845 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
I honestly don't understand why you have an issue with my prior post since I specifically indicated that my opinion was based on my HT configuration and requirements. Your primary disagreement with my statement is the DTM advantage that the Radiance Pro provides over static tone mapping. My signature shows that I own the NX7 which now has the adaptive DTM firmware update. You own the the RS4500 which does not include that feature and so, unless you've had the opportunity to evaluate JVC adaptive DTM, you won't personally have that frame of reference. In my subjective review which was posted yesterday on the appropriate forum for NX7 owners I concluded: "Bottom line is, without question, that I would purchase the Lumagen for any PJ without on-board adaptive DTM, but probably not JVCs with current firmware if the costs (present and future) would be considered to be onerous." I stand by my statement that the 4240 hasn't dramatically changed my viewing experience in my HT, as I own a fixed 16 x 9 screen without the need for AR control or support for an anamorphic lens.

My bad. I did not catch that you have an NX7 with the new firmware. Given that, I understand your perception of minimal differences with the addition of a Lumagen.
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post #6846 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
My bad. I did not catch that you have an NX7 with the new firmware. Given that, I understand your perception of minimal differences with the addition of a Lumagen.
Thanks for that clarification! I have no doubt that the Lumagen has substantially improved your HT experience and I hope that, given the ongoing efforts of the Lumagen team, future Radiance Pro firmware updates will push the platform to even higher levels of performance.

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post #6847 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
You have seen MadVR with Lumagen´s latest DTM release side by side? Can you share your thoughts?
Yes, updated to the latest firmware as of last weekend and I shared my thoughts exactly four posts above yours.
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post #6848 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Thanks for that clarification! I have no doubt that the Lumagen has substantially improved your HT experience and I hope that, given the ongoing efforts of the Lumagen team, future Radiance Pro firmware updates will push the platform to even higher levels of performance.
I'm sure Jim and Pat are working on improvements as we speak. There has certainly been a steady stream of updates since I've had my Radiance Pro.

Since my RS4500 doesn't even have the onboard DTM available, the Radiance Pro has been a big improvement for my theater ( plus the DCR lens / auto aspect ratio etc. ). It's transformed my RS4500. But, one needs to weight the cost / benefit of every piece of home theater gear. For me, the Lumagen has become indispensable !
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post #6849 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
For me, the Lumagen has become indispensable !

As it has for me as well. And very surprisingly, the benefits on bright scenes/movies is even more impressive than it is on dark scenes/movies. Watched Ford v Ferrari last night and the images (and audio and movie) were stunning. Probably the best video I have ever experienced in our theater.
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post #6850 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
For me, the Lumagen has become indispensable !
Speaking as a new owner (3 weeks now), I've just had a boys weekend with 2 mates as the wife is away and managed racked up 9 films, all 4K UDH HDR on my JVC x790/x7900 with a cinemascope 3m (9.8 ft) wide.

I have to say the picture was stunning and was truly amazed how all the films looked vibrant and appeared to have more depth to the picture.

Before the Lumagen, the odd film looked amazing, with most ok and some pretty bad (compared to the amazing ones). However, with the Lumagen all the films were amazing and gave a wow factor.

One very happy new owner!

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post #6851 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
As it has for me as well. And very surprisingly, the benefits on bright scenes/movies is even more impressive than it is on dark scenes/movies. Watched Ford v Ferrari last night and the images (and audio and movie) were stunning. Probably the best video I have ever experienced in our theater.
Some days home theater reminds me of wine collecting. Just as soon as you drop all of your disposable income on " the vintage of the century " / " best in 20 years ", next year the vintage is " best ever from here - don't miss this ". Since having the RS4500 / Lumagen / DCR lens, I take a " wait and see " attitude for every upgrade, since everything looks so good now. I have to - there's going to be another " vintage of the century " in Bordeaux coming soon that will eat my cash - I just know it.
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post #6852 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Yes, updated to the latest firmware as of last weekend and I shared my thoughts exactly four posts above yours.
Thanks, I must have somehow missed it, sorry!
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post #6853 of 7011 Old 02-13-2020, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Some days home theater reminds me of wine collecting. Just as soon as you drop all of your disposable income on " the vintage of the century " / " best in 20 years ", next year the vintage is " best ever from here - don't miss this ". Since having the RS4500 / Lumagen / DCR lens, I take a " wait and see " attitude for every upgrade, since everything looks so good now. I have to - there's going to be another " vintage of the century " in Bordeaux coming soon that will eat my cash - I just know it.

In the case of audio, that has always been the case UNTIL I purchased a Trinnov and moved to a high speaker count system [and being tempted to go even higher]. That has not been so much the case with video. I loved my previous RS500 until HDR showed up. Then I only watched in SDR/WCG. But once I experienced what true HDR could do, I decided to take the plunge for my current video chain. I really do not see any thing that might entice me to change my video in the next 10 years (assuming I'm still around in 10 more years). I'm sure brightness will improve, as will resolution (about which I care ZERO), but I am well past satisfied with my video.
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post #6854 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 12:28 AM
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I agree with Craig- the 4500/Lumagen/DCR lens combo is outstanding and will probably keep me happy for the next 5 plus years ( maybe longer)
Every time I watch a new 4K Blu-ray movie of good quality I am amazed how good the picture is. I just watched the new Maleficent and was amazed how good it looked. Am looking forward to Ford v Ferrari.
I was a little reluctant at first to buy the Lumagen but now agree with others that it’s been a great purchase- incredible support and it continues to get better with updates.
I also agree with Audioguy- the Trinnov is an incredible piece of gear ( also continues to improve with firmware updates). It does for audio what the 4500/Lumagen does for video.
The support is also second to none from the company.
It may be the last processor I ever need to buy.
Of course having the video and audio both professionally calibrated gets the best out of all the equipment.
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post #6855 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Yes, updated to the latest firmware as of last weekend and I shared my thoughts exactly four posts above yours.
I have a lumagen pro and I also have a htpc with 2080ti graphic card. I have calibrated both using Lightspace.
Lumagen was calibrated to dci/p3 gamma 2.4 and madvr to dci/p3 gamma 2.2.
I spent an extensive time looking at Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping settings.
I would love it if any of the users that claim that there is a big (or any) difference between the 2 set ups point me to them.
Any particular scenes?
To me it is a bold statement to declare any of the 2 set ups superior if there is no proper comparison.
To do so, a user must know how to calibrate and tweak both set ups.
I can understand how an enthusiast can make this mistake.

I just can't understand how a professional can...
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post #6856 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
I have a lumagen pro and I also have a htpc with 2080ti graphic card. I have calibrated both using Lightspace.
Lumagen was calibrated to dci/p3 gamma 2.4 and madvr to dci/p3 gamma 2.2.
I spent an extensive time looking at Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping settings.
I would love it if any of the users that claim that there is a big (or any) difference between the 2 set ups point me to them.
Any particular scenes?
To me it is a bold statement to declare any of the 2 set ups superior if there is no proper comparison.
To do so, a user must know how to calibrate and tweak both set ups.
I can understand how an enthusiast can make this mistake.

I just can't understand how a professional can...
Thank you. Spot on.

I will only believe one unit is better than the other when each is calibrated by the very best person possible. Let Lumagen pick their guy and Envy pick their guy. Then do a blind comparison so no one knows which of the two units they are viewing. Anything short of that kind of comparison is fraught with potential bias.

I'm not dismissing the possibility that one might be better than the other but the super subjective comparisons that have been posted here are completely meaningless.
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post #6857 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I'm sure Jim and Pat are working on improvements as we speak. There has certainly been a steady stream of updates since I've had my Radiance Pro.

Since my RS4500 doesn't even have the onboard DTM available, the Radiance Pro has been a big improvement for my theater ( plus the DCR lens / auto aspect ratio etc. ). It's transformed my RS4500. But, one needs to weight the cost / benefit of every piece of home theater gear. For me, the Lumagen has become indispensable !
Craig,
I fully agree with you - I just love the picture the 4500 throws - the first time I A/B it at CEDIA (not the best venue to do that) with the VW5000 it beat 5000 easily.
After adding the DCR and the Lumagen (with Kris Deering calibration magic) and Sony Relaity Creation (which I like ) the picture of my combo is close but the 4500 picture is still better IMHO.
If JVC had a projector like 4500 that could do 5000 Lumens that would be my first choice for sure.
Enjoy your setup and keep us enlightened of the developments.
Ash
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post #6858 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
I have a lumagen pro and I also have a htpc with 2080ti graphic card. I have calibrated both using Lightspace.
Lumagen was calibrated to dci/p3 gamma 2.4 and madvr to dci/p3 gamma 2.2.
I spent an extensive time looking at Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping settings.
I would love it if any of the users that claim that there is a big (or any) difference between the 2 set ups point me to them.
Any particular scenes?
To me it is a bold statement to declare any of the 2 set ups superior if there is no proper comparison.
To do so, a user must know how to calibrate and tweak both set ups.
I can understand how an enthusiast can make this mistake.

I just can't understand how a professional can...
This is one of the reasons why people really hate to posts in this forum...(my buddy is one of them). If you can't attack the message then find a way to attack the messenger.

My RS3000 is properly calibrated as my buddies NX7. The German shootout was also properly calibrated, and from what everyone said about ISE 2020, those sets ups were properly calibrated.

In all three cases (and I will dismiss mine due to any personal equipment bias) there was a difference noted by pretty much everyone in attendance who expressed an opinion. My buddy who pretty much predicted that our findings were going to be dismissed, said that he was shocked. He loves his Lumagen and I also thought it looked awesome compared to the JVC DTM, which BTW, were were laughing at some scenes that just failed compared to both the Lumagen and MadVR. Again, sorry but JVCs DTM has a lot of work to catch up.

So before I bow I will list the scenes we tested. And we picked these for several reasons including the lack of HDR metadata to allow to see what DTM could do without any internal guidance.
  • The Last Jedi (first 19-20 minutes for the explosions and first view of red room)
  • Lucy several scenes including OR room close-up, opening mixed scenes, the back lit halo around Morgan Freeman' head, the final Lucy scene against the all white room.
  • Interstellar several space scenes and the black hole.
  • Ready Player One, the first leg race.
  • Mad Max Fury Road - storm and fireworks.
  • Passengers - First 10-minutes and various other scenes such as halo room and window scene.
  • Logan Lucky - various scenes that had cars for color saturations.
  • John Wick 3 - Ballet scene.
  • Atomic Blonde - neon club scene
  • Brightburn - counselor office and kitchen scene (we both agreed that Lumagen actually beat MadVR on this one without mercy).

But I am sure doubters will find faults with the scenes, the method of testing, and/or personal bias.

Anyhow... I'm out.
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post #6859 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 07:37 AM
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I will believe it when Kris Deering posts on Envy/Lumagen comparison. He will also indicate the value proposition between the two devices as the Lumagen does additional things beyond DTM in terms of features and product support.... We watched Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald the other day. A dark movie that now just looks fantastic with the Pros current DTM. SJ
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post #6860 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
This is one of the reasons why people really hate to posts in this forum...(my buddy is one of them). If you can't attack the message then find a way to attack the messenger.

My RS3000 is properly calibrated as my buddies NX7. The German shootout was also properly calibrated, and from what everyone said about ISE 2020, those sets ups were properly calibrated.

In all three cases (and I will dismiss mine due to any personal equipment bias) there was a difference noted by pretty much everyone in attendance who expressed an opinion. My buddy who pretty much predicted that our findings were going to be dismissed, said that he was shocked. He loves his Lumagen and I also thought it looked awesome compared to the JVC DTM, which BTW, were were laughing at some scenes that just failed compared to both the Lumagen and MadVR. Again, sorry but JVCs DTM has a lot of work to catch up.

So before I bow I will list the scenes we tested. And we picked these for several reasons including the lack of HDR metadata to allow to see what DTM could do without any internal guidance.
  • The Last Jedi (first 19-20 minutes for the explosions and first view of red room)
  • Lucy several scenes including OR room close-up, opening mixed scenes, the back lit halo around Morgan Freeman' head, the final Lucy scene against the all white room.
  • Interstellar several space scenes and the black hole.
  • Ready Player One, the first leg race.
  • Mad Max Fury Road - storm and fireworks.
  • Passengers - First 10-minutes and various other scenes such as halo room and window scene.
  • Logan Lucky - various scenes that had cars for color saturations.
  • John Wick 3 - Ballet scene.
  • Atomic Blonde - neon club scene
  • Brightburn - counselor office and kitchen scene (we both agreed that Lumagen actually beat MadVR on this one without mercy).

But I am sure doubters will find faults with the scenes, the method of testing, and/or personal bias.

Anyhow... I'm out.
I don't necessarily doubt you, but you are using ripped discs and a HTPC - something I'm not willing to do under any circumstances. I also agree we need a blind test with no one knowing which is which. Like an eye Dr. test ( does this look better, or this ? ). I know you are biased towards your ISCO lens vs the DCR - a totally blind test of those would be interesting too.

Also, how loud is an Envy going to be? Lot's of questions. I'm sure it will be better in some areas - it better be, it's 2X the price of a Lumagen !

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing an Envy Pro at Cedia, if not before.
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post #6861 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I don't necessarily doubt you, but you are using ripped discs and a HTPC - something I'm not willing to do under any circumstances. I also agree we need a blind test with no one knowing which is which. Like an eye Dr. test ( does this look better, or this ? ). I know you are biased towards your ISCO lens vs the DCR - a totally blind test of those would be interesting too.



Also, how loud is an Envy going to be? Lot's of questions. I'm sure it will be better in some areas - it better be, it's 2X the price of a Lumagen !



Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing an Envy Pro at Cedia, if not before.


The base Envy is the same price as the average Lumagen.
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post #6862 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 09:57 AM
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The base Envy is the same price as the average Lumagen.
But Arrow saw the Pro model I'm pretty sure. Don't know what compromises the base model has. Has to have some compromises, otherwise, why buy the Pro model ?
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post #6863 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
But Arrow saw the Pro model I'm pretty sure. Don't know what compromises the base model has. Has to have some compromises, otherwise, why buy the Pro model ?


I didn’t realize he confirmed it was the Pro model at ISE. They (MadVR LLC) really need to explain the difference between base and pro. Even in their “pre order/interest” survey they ask questions about which version you are leaning towards and how strongly. ... yet I don’t think they even posted any differences anywhere other than price.




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post #6864 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
This is one of the reasons why people really hate to posts in this forum...(my buddy is one of them). If you can't attack the message then find a way to attack the messenger.

My RS3000 is properly calibrated as my buddies NX7. The German shootout was also properly calibrated, and from what everyone said about ISE 2020, those sets ups were properly calibrated.

In all three cases (and I will dismiss mine due to any personal equipment bias) there was a difference noted by pretty much everyone in attendance who expressed an opinion. My buddy who pretty much predicted that our findings were going to be dismissed, said that he was shocked. He loves his Lumagen and I also thought it looked awesome compared to the JVC DTM, which BTW, were were laughing at some scenes that just failed compared to both the Lumagen and MadVR. Again, sorry but JVCs DTM has a lot of work to catch up.

So before I bow I will list the scenes we tested. And we picked these for several reasons including the lack of HDR metadata to allow to see what DTM could do without any internal guidance.
  • The Last Jedi (first 19-20 minutes for the explosions and first view of red room)
  • Lucy several scenes including OR room close-up, opening mixed scenes, the back lit halo around Morgan Freeman' head, the final Lucy scene against the all white room.
  • Interstellar several space scenes and the black hole.
  • Ready Player One, the first leg race.
  • Mad Max Fury Road - storm and fireworks.
  • Passengers - First 10-minutes and various other scenes such as halo room and window scene.
  • Logan Lucky - various scenes that had cars for color saturations.
  • John Wick 3 - Ballet scene.
  • Atomic Blonde - neon club scene
  • Brightburn - counselor office and kitchen scene (we both agreed that Lumagen actually beat MadVR on this one without mercy).

But I am sure doubters will find faults with the scenes, the method of testing, and/or personal bias.

Anyhow... I'm out.

I am sorry you feel this way. It wasn't my intention to insult you and I wasn't trying to be ironic either. I am not keeping a track of your posts so I wouldn't know how you tested, how you calibrated, what dtm settings you picked etc. I actually still don't. My question about what scenes should I check was legit.
Thank you for providing the scenes above. Could I ask for timestamps please or perhaps pm me a link where I can read about the comparison?
I love my lumagen, but I also want to have the best possible image. Plus I already own a hi-end htpc and it took me hours to learn madvr and overcome set up problems. It is not easy.

So I think you have it all wrong when you say "This is one of the reasons why people really hate to posts in this forum...(my buddy is one of them). If you can't attack the message then find a way to attack the messenger.".
I have about 200 posts since 2011 in this forum, where would you get this idea?
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post #6865 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
I didn’t realize he confirmed it was the Pro model at ISE. They (MadVR LLC) really need to explain the difference between base and pro. Even in their “pre order/interest” survey they ask questions about which version you are leaning towards and how strongly. ... yet I don’t think they even posted any differences anywhere other than price.

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They had a prototype Pro at Cedia last year. Of course they are going to bring their A Game to start.
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post #6866 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
I will believe it when Kris Deering posts on Envy/Lumagen comparison. He will also indicate the value proposition between the two devices as the Lumagen does additional things beyond DTM in terms of features and product support.... We watched Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald the other day. A dark movie that now just looks fantastic with the Pros current DTM.
Deering's contributions to this forum and to front projection home theater in general are much appreciated. I doubt that he'd suggest ignoring the findings of others.



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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
We watched Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald the other day. A dark movie that now just looks fantastic with the Pros current DTM. SJ
This is what everyone does. Logical fallacy. No one suggested that content won't look fantastic on your set-up or any other. I have merely Panny UB820/JVC RS600/ST 100 (black velvet room) and UHDs and many well encoded Blu-rays "look fantastic". Should I deploy your rationale for never upgrading?
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post #6867 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 12:06 PM
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@Killroy

I have had a very similar outcome as to what you described with your Lumagen vs madVR observation ..

I run my Z1/RS4500 with a HTPC and madVR , a good friend runs a Lumagen ( he hates HTPC,s) with his Sony 5000ES.

We recentley did some comparisons using the Lumagen , madVR and both projectors in various setups......results always favoured madVR.

So your certainly not alone in your findings...
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post #6868 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
Deering's contributions to this forum and to front projection home theater in general are much appreciated. I doubt that he'd suggest ignoring the findings of others.





This is what everyone does. Logical fallacy. No one suggested that content won't look fantastic on your set-up or any other. I have merely Panny UB820/JVC RS600/ST 100 (black velvet room) and UHDs and many well encoded Blu-rays "look fantastic". Should I deploy your rationale for never upgrading?
I've upgraded plenty. My wife never thought I was logical. I'm just looking for an expert like Kris to voice an opinion after seeing side-by-side. Kris has done my last two calibrations and just someone I know. He obviously has extensive experience with a Lumagen Pro including the capabilities beyond DTM (Lumagen Kaleidescape integration, source switching, etc.). He obviously would not ignore what others are finding in the industry. SJ
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post #6869 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
Deering's contributions to this forum and to front projection home theater in general are much appreciated. I doubt that he'd suggest ignoring the findings of others.





This is what everyone does. Logical fallacy. No one suggested that content won't look fantastic on your set-up or any other. I have merely Panny UB820/JVC RS600/ST 100 (black velvet room) and UHDs and many well encoded Blu-rays "look fantastic". Should I deploy your rationale for never upgrading?
You should start by replacing that RS600 with at least an RS3000 ( if not an RS4500 ). You're welcome.


If there's one thing I'm good at, it's helping spend other people's money. In fact, I've built a career out of it.
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post #6870 of 7011 Old 02-14-2020, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I don't necessarily doubt you, but you are using ripped discs and a HTPC - something I'm not willing to do under any circumstances. I also agree we need a blind test with no one knowing which is which. Like an eye Dr. test ( does this look better, or this ? ). I know you are biased towards your ISCO lens vs the DCR - a totally blind test of those would be interesting too.

Also, how loud is an Envy going to be? Lot's of questions. I'm sure it will be better in some areas - it better be, it's 2X the price of a Lumagen !

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing an Envy Pro at Cedia, if not before.
Funny you should mention ripped discs... we of course tested the Lumagen with my Oppo 203 and retail discs and I had totally forgotten how horrible disc menus can be. I had never set up my 203 for discs so my buddy got it set up right. We did test ripped discs on both HTPC (no MadVR DTM) and Nvidia Shield running through the Lumagen and when compared it to the retail disc (Oppo via Lumagen) and we really could not see any difference but we did not expect to. We also tested retail discs and ripped discs to the RS3000 via Oppo and Shield and let the JVC do the DTM and we were not impressed. Yes, much better than pre-3.01 firmware but no where near both Lumagen or MadVR. Explosions and fire is one major place where the JVC DTM lacks.

As far as noise form the Envy, if most of us can easily do HTPCs that are absolutely silent then the Envy can be made the same. My HTPC has Noctua fans, a Corsair PSU (fans never ever spin), and the RTX2070 also never spins up the fans even with HSTM. I do have an active fan cooled CPU but I can easily swap it out if I could hear it from my sitting position. With 95% of the work being done via GPU, the CPU fan is always running in low speed.

To be honest, I am not biased towards my ISCO IIIL over the DCR. I think the DCR is a great piece of equipment. I am biased to the fact that I do not like leaving the lens in place for 16:9 content since using it that way requires throwing away ~20% of your actual resolution. I just can't do that. So if the DCR had a better option for motorized sled then I would be absolutely on board. Yes, you can add a sled but on some projectors, not my RS3000, that can't be done due to the lens having to be so close to the projector...so I've heard. Trust me, it would be SOOOOO much easier to leave my ISCO IIIL in place 100% of the time (no sled) if I did not have a type-a OCD about throwing out ~20% of my pretty pixels.

Now, a blind test of both the DCR vs IIIL and/or the Lumagen vs MadVR HTPC/Envy could only be done with two projectors at the exact same time. That would be a fun experiment that I would love to attend.
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