New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 255 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7621 of 8035 Old 04-24-2020, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverMDM View Post
Update looks great. The problem scenes in Hacksaw Ridge Chapter 10 where explosions and muzzle flash abruptly force dynamic changes are now gone. Thanks all for constantly improving our devices!
I thought that explosion was here: Chapter 12 at 1:38:02?

Like @Kris Deering said, don't go look if you haven't seen it before.

Mark

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post #7622 of 8035 Old 04-24-2020, 01:22 PM
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Hey guys, did the most recent update yesterday and first time I got a checksum error wo reran per the instructions at a lower transfer rate and it succeeded. Watched some content and powered down the system. Turned everything on again just now and projector isn't receiving a signal from the lumagen. Pressing OK or menu displays nothing on the screen. Noncgange in anything since last night. Unplugged the HDMI cable from the lumagen into the roku and projector displays a signal.

Any thoughts? Rerun the update? Thx

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post #7623 of 8035 Old 04-24-2020, 01:46 PM
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Just FYI rerunning the update with force option fixed it.
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post #7624 of 8035 Old 04-24-2020, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
Hey guys, did the most recent update yesterday and first time I got a checksum error wo reran per the instructions at a lower transfer rate and it succeeded. Watched some content and powered down the system. Turned everything on again just now and projector isn't receiving a signal from the lumagen. Pressing OK or menu displays nothing on the screen. Noncgange in anything since last night. Unplugged the HDMI cable from the lumagen into the roku and projector displays a signal.

Any thoughts? Rerun the update? Thx
I had a similar issue in the last firmware update (not this) - it was my Audio Processor Trinnov Altitude 32 which needed a firmware update for its HDMI.
Once I updated the processor (was told it was a micro code issue of its HDMI) - it worked flawlessly.
My installer was super helpful and he told me first that HDMI cables are finicky and they need to be set in properly. So taking each one out and carefully resetting (so they don't get damaged) them is also something you could try.
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post #7625 of 8035 Old 04-24-2020, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
Just FYI rerunning the update with force option fixed it.
I've had to do that once in the past. Luckily it worked.
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post #7626 of 8035 Old 04-24-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I thought that explosion was here: Chapter 12 at 1:38:02?

Like @Kris Deering said, don't go look if you haven't seen it before.

Mark
I never noticed that one but just checked it out. I think the reason that the whole assault in Chapters 10-12 bothered me was because of the dark, murky background and immediate flash on one part of the screen that immediately dimmed the picture. The Chapter 12 at 1:38:02 seems to be more of a very bright, whole screen "blowout" very similar to that Mad Max: Fury Road lightning storm scene that everyone used to point to. Anyway, it doesn't matter because even if was there before, it's gone now. And yes, Kris is right - don't go looking for thing to obsess over. Although, what else do I have to do right now?!

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post #7627 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 05:16 AM
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Once you go... "Fade To Black".... you don't go back.
Yesterday when watching Bad Boys for Life in K Escape - I realized complete fade to blacks are back with this Lumagen Update.
Very cool.... I missed them now that I can see them.
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post #7628 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Once you go... "Fade To Black".... you don't go back.
Yesterday when watching Bad Boys for Life in K Escape - I realized complete fade to blacks are back with this Lumagen Update.
Very cool.... I missed them now that I can see them.
Of all the improvements, I don’t think there’s a anything the firmware that will change a fade to black level. At that point, its the black level of your display and any processing. For example, if you have a Sony 5000, the last firmware made some some iris/black level improvements, which, if enabled, would completely choke down on the iris for a fade to black (though APL may be a bit darker in certain scenes when watching actual content). Is also possible (as I have) you’ve played with some settings over time and that’s set to Dynamic Iris Full or Limited...
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post #7629 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Of all the improvements, I don’t think there’s a anything the firmware that will change a fade to black level. At that point, its the black level of your display and any processing. For example, if you have a Sony 5000, the last firmware made some some iris/black level improvements, which, if enabled, would completely choke down on the iris for a fade to black (though APL may be a bit darker in certain scenes when watching actual content). Is also possible (as I have) you’ve played with some settings over time and that’s set to Dynamic Iris Full or Limited...
I can only post what I see in my setup and agree with you that this maybe just in my setup.
Projector is Sony VW5000 Dynamic IRIS is fully enabled
Prior to this firmware - I used to notice a lot of light pumping (flicker say when changing sources or when blank scene changes happened for example during credits and fade to black scenes).
Without making any changes to the projector settings after updating the firmware - I see complete fade to blacks.
Also as posted/agreed by Armand - in my setup also the source changes are rock solid and very quick (Kris Deering who calibrated my Video - in home - and is part of Lumagen DTM development posted that nothing that was done in this firmware was intended for faster HDMI Syncs or source changes).
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Last edited by Ash Sharma; 04-25-2020 at 06:15 AM.
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post #7630 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I had a similar issue in the last firmware update (not this) - it was my Audio Processor Trinnov Altitude 32 which needed a firmware update for its HDMI.
Once I updated the processor (was told it was a micro code issue of its HDMI) - it worked flawlessly.
My installer was super helpful and he told me first that HDMI cables are finicky and they need to be set in properly. So taking each one out and carefully resetting (so they don't get damaged) them is also something you could try.
I also have a Lumagen Radiance Pro/Trinnov Altitude 32 combo setup that I am using with a Sony VW5000 projector. Trinnov just confirmed that I have the latest HDMI microcode.

I was just mentioning to my integrator that Kaleidescape seems to be the only source that I can power on and reliably get a signal from the Lumagen to the projector. Other sources either take forever or will only get a signal from the Lumagen if I change to Kaleidescape and back.

I will be working with my integrator next week to try to find a Crestron programming fix. He thinks it is a video sync issue, but if anyone has found a fix for this I would welcome your suggestions.
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post #7631 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 07:42 AM
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Hello all, looking at a 4242 and wondering if it would be worthwhile to add to my system? I currently have a JVC NX7 which I think does a pretty good job at HDR tone mapping with the new update. I also just upgraded to a Paladin DCR lens with my 2:40 screen so I do not really need any work filling the screen especially since my 16:9 content is limited and do not mind switching through the modes in the JVC to watch 16:9 content. Most of my content is 4K and BD physical media so is would this really be a worthwhile investment? Guess I am trying to figure out what benefit I may see considering the very steep price to add it.
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post #7632 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurvenal View Post
I also have a Lumagen Radiance Pro/Trinnov Altitude 32 combo setup that I am using with a Sony VW5000 projector. Trinnov just confirmed that I have the latest HDMI microcode.

I was just mentioning to my integrator that Kaleidescape seems to be the only source that I can power on and reliably get a signal from the Lumagen to the projector. Other sources either take forever or will only get a signal from the Lumagen if I change to Kaleidescape and back.

I will be working with my integrator next week to try to find a Crestron programming fix. He thinks it is a video sync issue, but if anyone has found a fix for this I would welcome your suggestions.
Hi.

Has this update helped or hurt this behavior (or no effect).

Who’s doing your Crestron? Ash and I have similar setups to you... and Crestron. And which Lumagen model?

Thanks!

I salute our Immersion professionals: Curt Hoyt to which I am very thankful for positioning my JBL loudspeakers correctly to achieve a very tight bubble and the greatly missed Peter CINERAMAX whose fearless R&D in PRO-RIBBON cinemas, curation of most immersive Kaleidescape scripts and forging ahead to 55 loudspeaker Crystal Led Cinemas will pave the road ahead. And Adam Pelz for bringing the system to jawdropping life!
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Is there any ‘Passthrough’ mode on the Lumagen that a signale goes untouched into the output?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I can only post what I see in my setup and agree with you that this maybe just in my setup.
Projector is Sony VW5000 Dynamic IRIS is fully enabled
Prior to this firmware - I used to notice a lot of light pumping (flicker say when changing sources or when blank scene changes happened for example during credits and fade to black scenes).
Without making any changes to the projector settings after updating the firmware - I see complete fade to blacks.
Also as posted/agreed by Armand - in my setup also the source changes are rock solid and very quick (Kris Deering who calibrated my Video - in home - and is part of Lumagen DTM development posted that nothing that was done in this firmware was intended for faster HDMI Syncs or source changes).

I just test with timer before i get 15 to 18 sec to switch now 6 to 9 sec and very seamless


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi.

Has this update helped or hurt this behavior (or no effect).

Who’s doing your Crestron? Ash and I have similar setups to you... and Crestron. And which Lumagen model?

Thanks!
So far from what I can tell this update is not having any effect on the video sync issue, but have not tested it extensively yet. This is a new setup, so am still working out the kinks with my integrator, although I have been using the same RP 4446 for a while now.
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post #7636 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
Is there any ‘Passthrough’ mode on the Lumagen that a signale goes untouched into the output?
Not to my knowledge. I wish there was a true game mode that did something like this. I was playing a recent game that required hitting the controller buttons in a certain sequence. Was a bit tough because of the lag from the Lumagen and also my projector. Of course, it may just be me. Lol
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post #7637 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Not to my knowledge. I wish there was a true game mode that did something like this. I was playing a recent game that required hitting the controller buttons in a certain sequence. Was a bit tough because of the lag from the Lumagen and also my projector. Of course, it may just be me. Lol

True, although there is a cms passthrough (Cms off).
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Hey. How do I make a back up? Couldn’t find on Tech Tips... Thanks!

I salute our Immersion professionals: Curt Hoyt to which I am very thankful for positioning my JBL loudspeakers correctly to achieve a very tight bubble and the greatly missed Peter CINERAMAX whose fearless R&D in PRO-RIBBON cinemas, curation of most immersive Kaleidescape scripts and forging ahead to 55 loudspeaker Crystal Led Cinemas will pave the road ahead. And Adam Pelz for bringing the system to jawdropping life!
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Hey. How do I make a back up? Couldn’t find on Tech Tips... Thanks!
http://lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=utilities

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post #7640 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 05:39 PM
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New FIRMWARE!

041620- Posted 042520 Better version of small DTM improvement in 041120 fixes several more challenging DTM cases

041120 or 041220?
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post #7641 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Not to my knowledge. I wish there was a true game mode that did something like this. I was playing a recent game that required hitting the controller buttons in a certain sequence. Was a bit tough because of the lag from the Lumagen and also my projector. Of course, it may just be me. Lol
We have plans for a Radiance Pro game mode and now that DTM has both zone-based analysis, and adaptation within scenes, we are starting to work on other features. Pipeline depth enhancement (entire pipe at 12 bits or more) is first, but we are considering bumping up Game Mode to a higher priority.

There is no straight pass-through mode in the Pro. So all video goes through the pipeline and frame buffer. The pipeline, while hundreds of clocks long, is effectively zero in human terms. What we will do for Game mode is reduce the time from storing in the frame buffer to reading from the frame buffer to a minimum. As these things go it sounds simple, but turns out it is quite a bit of work. By using the frame buffer, game mode can support aspect ratio control and other geometry features.
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post #7642 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Hey. How do I make a back up? Couldn’t find on Tech Tips... Thanks!
Download the config reader from here: http://lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=utilities

Make sure you download version 1.90 near the top of the page and not one of the older revisions.

It runs like the updater. You choose a BAUD rate and COM port. Then download the configuration from then Pro. Then you must Save the configuration to a file.

To upload, reverse the process.

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post #7643 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurvenal View Post
I also have a Lumagen Radiance Pro/Trinnov Altitude 32 combo setup that I am using with a Sony VW5000 projector. Trinnov just confirmed that I have the latest HDMI microcode.

I was just mentioning to my integrator that Kaleidescape seems to be the only source that I can power on and reliably get a signal from the Lumagen to the projector. Other sources either take forever or will only get a signal from the Lumagen if I change to Kaleidescape and back.

I will be working with my integrator next week to try to find a Crestron programming fix. He thinks it is a video sync issue, but if anyone has found a fix for this I would welcome your suggestions.
You, or your integrator, can contact Lumagen support for assistance.

===

These power-on issues are often power-on order issues. We also see some streamers have three stats of being: On, Sleep, and Zombie. Zombie is too strong a word, and I say it tongue-in-cheek. However, for example, we have seen DirecTV, and AppleTV 4k, act differently going into the Pro if they go to sleep for a long period, such as overnight, versus a short period of time. Other devices, such as Bluray players and Roku, do not seem to have the third mode. We do not know exactly what is happening with the streamers that have the third mode, and it is likely an interaction between the streamer HDMI output chip/software, and the Radiance Pro input chip's internal processor.

We have added two feature options that appear to resolve this in the cases we know about. The first is you program the Pro internal power-up-input-select as something other than the input you normally select (Other->On/Off Setup->Input Select. Change both input selects). Then in that same menu enable the "delay select" which waits an additional 3 seconds after the Pro thinks the source is ready before activating the input at power on (only). Then the control system can select the input you want to view.

Finally we recommend you power on in the following order:

Projector/TV
Wait 5 to 10 seconds for the projector to start its HDMI interface
Radiance Pro
Wait 5 seconds for the Pro to start its HDMI interfaces
Sources
Audio processor

Often no delays are needed. For example, my system turns everything on at the same time without delays. I do have it set to projector first, then the Pro, then the Trinnov, then sources, but as fast as it can send these commands. So, delays are not always necessary and depend on the specific equipment list.
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post #7644 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I can only post what I see in my setup and agree with you that this maybe just in my setup.
Projector is Sony VW5000 Dynamic IRIS is fully enabled
Prior to this firmware - I used to notice a lot of light pumping (flicker say when changing sources or when blank scene changes happened for example during credits and fade to black scenes).
Without making any changes to the projector settings after updating the firmware - I see complete fade to blacks.
Also as posted/agreed by Armand - in my setup also the source changes are rock solid and very quick (Kris Deering who calibrated my Video - in home - and is part of Lumagen DTM development posted that nothing that was done in this firmware was intended for faster HDMI Syncs or source changes).
Nothing in the new firmware was done to affect the input lock on of a projector. The jitter for this release is within 2 pS (about) of the 011120 release, at right about 90 pS. If jitter had gone up or down I could see it affecting lock on time, but it is the same. So we have no explanation for faster lock on. We have seen things like this happen doing an update. For example bumping a HDMI cable can affect that HDMI connection (usually in a negative way). I have done this to myself on a few occasions. Bumped a HDMI connection just enough that the connector came out a fraction and made the connect less reliable. Yours could be a case of the opposite happening. That is the connection got better from some movement.

In any case nothing in the new release *should have* changed lock on time. So can't explain why it got better, but happy for you that it did. Remember that a new FPGA might affect this if you update at a later date. We do try to keep jitter as low as possible for reasons I have posted before, but it can vary some.

====

[EDIT] I am adding a preamble to qualify the below response. It is possible the DTM is giving you a black that might be an LSB or so lower than before. This would not be intentional "make black darker," but as part of the tuning of the DTM. The difference would be very small, but might be enough to get to a level the iris choose to close more. Not sure, but thought I would mention it. Please consider this as you read the below comments:
[End of EDIT]

The iris is completely internal to the projector. So if it changed the only thing is how it is reacting to the specific scene levels. For most scenes this has not changed. the improvements in this release are for a few really tough scenes (although I have seen improvement in scene I did not expect the improvement).

I do not like dynamic iris' in general but specifically, for HDR it will interact with DTM and will likely degrade the image to some degree. DTM is designed for a constant 2.4 response in the projector/TV. I actually spent some time with our RS4500's dynamic laser mode, and tried to think of a way to have a mode that would make it help DTM and not hurt. I was not able to to figure a way and so leave it off for HDR (and actually SDR as well since I don't like their response changes).

I actually contacted JVC and asked for a way to send HDMI Info Frame commands to control the RS4500 laser. Could do awesome things for achievable contrast ratio for both SDR and HDR if they made a way, but got a definite "not going to happen" response. Didn't really expect a positive answer but had to take a shot.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

Last edited by jrp; 04-25-2020 at 06:40 PM.
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post #7645 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 06:54 PM
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A comment on @dgkula 's question on what to do after a failed update.

If you start an update and it fails to complete, you should definitely switch to doing a "Boot Mode Update" for the next try. The reason is the failed update can corrupt internal code. The Boot Mode Update does a cold boot and has no other code running except the boot code updater. So as long as the boot-loader second of code is good it will work even if some code got corrupted. The boot-loader code is never changed during an update and so a failed load does not affect it.

We have had a few cases that once an update has failed neither a "Normal" or "Forced," update works and a Boot Mode Update was required to get the unit happy again.

The instructions for Boot Mode Update are in the Tech Tip that comes with each update. In short you set up just like a normal update. Then when ready, pull and restore power to the Pro. Then, do not turn the Pro on, but click Start for the update within 10 seconds of applying power to the Pro.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
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post #7646 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 06:55 PM
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I do not like dynamic iris' in general but specifically, for HDR it will interact with DTM and will likely degrade the image to some degree. DTM is designed for a constant 2.4 response in the projector.
Jim, could you possibly be more specific as to what you're referring to by the image "will likely be degraded"? How would the end user likely perceive any deterioration secondary to D.I. utilization? Thanks!

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post #7647 of 8035 Old 04-25-2020, 08:35 PM
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Jim, could you possibly be more specific as to what you're referring to by the image "will likely be degraded"? How would the end user likely perceive any deterioration secondary to D.I. utilization? Thanks!
Not Jim but I imagine it has to do with the fact that any DI system is dynamically modulating gamma to work properly. Since the Lumagen DTM is applying itself ON TOP OF a fixed gamma (2.4), any manipulations of that gamma puts it in a state that the overlay doesn't know what it is on top of, and the results would be not as intended.
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post #7648 of 8035 Old 04-26-2020, 12:08 AM
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Download the config reader from here: http://lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=utilities

Make sure you download version 1.90 near the top of the page and not one of the older revisions.

It runs like the updater. You choose a BAUD rate and COM port. Then download the configuration from then Pro. Then you must Save the configuration to a file.

To upload, reverse the process.
Hi everyone,

I'd like to add that unlike the update app, if you run Windows 10, the configuration utility requires to apply the "Windows 8 compatibility" (on certain computers, had to do it on my laptop but not on my desktop, weird ...) to work otherwise nothing will happen after double-clicking.
Also don't forget to "Save Configuration to File" after "Download Configuration From Radiance".

I did a backup from my newly acquired Radiance Pro yesterday before applying the upgrade.
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post #7649 of 8035 Old 04-26-2020, 12:16 AM
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Are there any settings we should adapt regarding DTM since the new firmware is available ?
Thanks by the way for keeping working on it !

I had a great opportunity to get a 4242 from a french ex-pro calibrator and he had the kindness to deliver it to my place to set it up and I'm very happy with the result !
I don't regret this upgrade on my setup, keep up the good job !!!!
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post #7650 of 8035 Old 04-26-2020, 01:58 AM
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Are there any settings we should adapt regarding DTM since the new firmware is available ?
Thanks by the way for keeping working on it !

I had a great opportunity to get a 4242 from a french ex-pro calibrator and he had the kindness to deliver it to my place to set it up and I'm very happy with the result !
I don't regret this upgrade on my setup, keep up the good job !!!!

Try contact Kris Deeringhe help me with my config and I think it had a big effect on the my overall impression...
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