New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 268 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8011 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tioneb View Post
Thank you for the lengthy response, but I still need some clarification. By the way, you're right, it's the colour profile that determines whether the filter is on or not; I had forgotten about it.

I think we both want the same set-up. At the moment with the UB820, I use the filter for both SDR and HDR disks (User 3 for SDR and User 5 for HDR (with UB820 outputting SDR2020)) And I intend to keep that way with the Radiance Pro (so I can use the wider WCG ... my light output is OK with the filter on). However, I use different iris positions for SDR and HDR. I have the harmony hub and I can always set the power-off and power-on conditions. But I will discuss the issue with the iris position later.

I always knew that I wanted to set SDR2020 for HDR disks. So, I believed that the Radiance Pro should not send the HDR flag to the projector (b/c if it did, it would remove the filter automatically). But the following instructions on Radiance Pro manual on p. 16 threw me off: "Set the CMS-1 -> Colorspace -> HDR Flag to off for CMS1" So far that's what I thought I should do, but then it continues ... "unless you have a JVC projector you can select the HDR Flag = On in CMS1, to select a different projector memory for HDR than is used for SDR". Now that threw me off big time. Because the way I think the projector works (and I may be wrong) is that if it sees a HDR flag, it will automatically goes to a HDR picture mode removing the filter in the process. But I do not want the projector to remove the filter. So my question to you is: when you use the Radiance Pro with the RS540, do you set CMS-1 -> Colorspace -> HDR Flag to OFF or ON?

If you set it OFF, then I can a User Picture Mode and set the Color Profile to BT.202, Color Temp to HDR, Gamma to Custom (gamma 2.4), etc ...
But if I set it to ON, will it not put the projector in HDR Picture Mode (with the filter removed)?

Second, regarding the iris position, if I understand correctly, should I make sure that the projector upon powering up and powering down be always set to the same Picture Mode so that the iris position is always at the same position upon powering up and powering down? At the moment, the iris is always at the same position (manual -5) upon powering up and down; after watching a HDR disk (which uses a different iris position than for SDR disks), I always put it back to my SDR setting (with iris position manual -5) before powering down the projector. Is that what you have in mind to minimize iris malfunction? By the way, if my iris is malfunctioning and does not go to the iris position that I set in the projector menu, is there any way to find out about it?

Thank you (and also giomania) for helping me.
I would not use the HDR flag for the two reasons mentioned - lack of access to user / profile off, and issues with the iris. Not being able to use the WCG filter is not a reason to not use it.
You can have the filter on with the HDR flag operating. When you play some HDR you switch to BT2020 profile instead of HDR. BT2020 is an allowed profile for HDR flag operation. So then your HDR flag with keep the filter in. But you won't have access to a user profile.

Perhaps the manual is worded a bit strong (I've not looked at the wording). There's nothing forcing you to use the HDR flag with a JVC projector, it is a suggested way of operating, manufacturer recommended . I'm suggesting a different way, but lots of folk use it successfully I'm sure (probably more dilligent than my lot are about power sequence and shutting stuff down in orderly fashion...).

If you are always powering up and down at the same iris position / mode you should be fine. It is only if you power up and down with content that would trigger the different modes via the HDR flag, and they have different iris settings, that you might have issues. In my case it is totally repeatable. To break it, set HDRflag to have iris 0, SDR to have iris -10, power off in HDRflag and then power up with SDR. You won't hear the lamp iris move from the 0 position back to -10, but the menus will think it is at -10 if you look (note, only the lamp iris seems affected, which is the really loud one that sounds like someone grinding coffee overhead... ). If you now try to play some HDR it is very obvious that something has gone wrong because the projector tries to advance the lamp iris from -10 to 0 (but it is already at 0) so it hits the mechanical end of travel and grinds (even louder).
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post #8012 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 08:26 AM
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Just to add to what you guys are saying. I am looking into adding a Vertex2 in the chain. It can be programmed to select different memories on jvc per input signal (e.g. sdr709, sdr2020, 3d) while maintaining the option of having profile off/filter on. Pretty cool feature.
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post #8013 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
Just to add to what you guys are saying. I am looking into adding a Vertex2 in the chain. It can be programmed to select different memories on jvc per input signal (e.g. sdr709, sdr2020, 3d) while maintaining the option of having profile off/filter on. Pretty cool feature.
I was going to mention this, though I'm on the fence about them just because I've had a couple of HDfury devices and while they've been great at solving all sorts of oddball issues, they've also occasionally introduced their own which can end up being a bit of a rabbit hole! This is undoubtedly a neat feature of theirs though.

I would personally rather use the Lumagen to report the input changes via status reports, and have some control-system-like device watching those strings and doing the mode switch in the projector (that is how I do it, a short script running on a Raspberry Pi talking to Lumagen over RS232 and controlling the projector and my screen masking over IP.

It's not currently as shrink-wrapped of a solution as the HDfury route, but it avoids an avoidable extension of your HDMI chain, which I think is always a good idea (unless you're trying to solve some very specific issue for which there is no other option).
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post #8014 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
Hi @bobof , I'd like to better understand this as I have an RS620 with plenty of light output. I havent been using the filter for SDR viewing, just the Normal mode with Gamma 2.4 and iris settings that give me the brightness I like and auto2 DI.

Are you suggesting that using THX or Reference mode to engage the filter when watching SDR? If so, what other settings do you recommend?

My n00b reading suggested that the DCI P3 filter wasnt required for SD content as that was mapped to the Rec709 colorspace but the filter was required for UHD BD which extends to DCI. Are you suggesting that you are engaging the fikter as you arent getting good Rec709 coverage without it for SD content?

Sorry to derail this thread but I searched the JVC projector threads for many of these terms and cant find anything that explains using the filter for SDR: how, when and why, etc.
The Cinema filter isn't generally supposed to be required with SDR content. However... if you measure a colour cube cube on an X7900 (or at least the two I have had here) they come up a bit short on the green primary of REC709. Not very short, it's still within notional tolerance (and is variable between units), but it is short.

If it doesn't come up short, then you don't need the filter. If it does, then the "issue" is that the 3DLUT software when confronted with this short gamut usually makes one of two choices, either limit saturation to maintain hue, or allow a hue rotation for those colours to maintain saturation. The bulk of the profile will be adjusted to be correct, and the gamut edge becomes non-linear. If you flip in the filter, the REC709 gamut is pretty easily covered by the projector with gamut to spare for green, and you have a 3DLUT that should result in a linear output gamut.

The colour profiles on the JVC projectors aren't brilliant for 3DLUT creation as they have some gamut compression as they get towards the gamut edges, and 3DLUT SW often doesn't like this. There are some workarounds, but I prefer to use profile off and do all the colour management in the Radiance. Profile off with the filter on is a bit harder to use though; I have a method that works in my system with my X7900 (it seems if you set profile off and force the filter in and then turn off the PJ, that the filter "sticks" for profile off, probably taking advantage of a firmware oversight there...!); some others are using the HDFury product to do this in a more controlled manner. You could also fire the filter command at the projector from a control system on seeing a status report change from the Radiance.

I'm certainly not going to say this is the only way to set these up as I know folk get good results in the profiles too; but it works well for me.
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post #8015 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
The Cinema filter isn't generally supposed to be required with SDR content. However... if you measure a colour cube cube on an X7900 (or at least the two I have had here) they come up a bit short on the green primary of REC709. Not very short, it's still within notional tolerance (and is variable between units), but it is short.
Do you have a preference for Cinema over THX mode for any reason? Both seem to engage the DCI-P3 filter. The manual doesnt have much more to say about the two modes. Thx!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
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post #8016 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
Do you have a preference for Cinema over THX mode for any reason? Both seem to engage the DCI-P3 filter. The manual doesnt have much more to say about the two modes. Thx!
I have no preference as those built in profiles didn't serve any purpose to me; I only looked at them initially to ascertain they were both behaving in similar ways and discounted them. If you're going to use them without calibration, just pick whichever you like the most...
But I'd recommend getting it calibrated by someone who knows their way around 3DLUT and the JVC projectors . Or DIY if you have the stomach for the rabbit-hole...
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post #8017 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dgkula View Post
I have a jvc rs620 and use the hdr flag in the lumagen. In my case I am able to arbitrarily customize the settings of the default hdr picture mode on the projector so that the benefit is really auto selection of a predetermined picture mode with settings of my choice.

So as you note above, I have changed my jvc rs620 default HDR mode to have color profile BT2020, Color Temp to HDR and Gamma to Custom 2.4

Without the flag I would have to manually select the picture mode I want to use for hdr content in an sdr container, which differs from my default normal mode for regular sdr content. I hope that makes sense - I think you should be able to change the settings on the default hdr picture mode on the 540 as well to benefit from the flag and the auto selection of thus mode by the projector when this flag is seen.
All right, I'm beginning to see a clearer picture. So setting HDR Flag to ON on the Radiance Pro allows for AUTOMATIC change in Picture Mode when it detects a HDR content. And I understand that I can set the Picture Mode HDR mode with a different Color Profile (BT.2020) and different Gamut (2.4) that will stick whenever the HDR mode comes on. Is that correct?

And Bobof doesn't like that automatic change because he cannot use a profile off with Picture Mode HDR (by the way, how can you select a profile off on the RS540 ??) and he wants a profile off so that he can sidestep the gamut compression problems with the preset Color Profiles on the projector. Right?
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post #8018 of 8035 Old 06-20-2020, 02:15 PM
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I think you have it. Just change the default HDR profile for HDR in an SDR container with BT2020, gamma 2.4, and high lamp and when you watch HDR content the projector will automatically change into that mode. When you stop the content and return to SDR content the projector will automatically change back to your default SDR setting.
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post #8019 of 8035 Old 06-23-2020, 10:08 PM
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Strangely enough nothing has changed in the system other than adding a new device the Facebook portal tv on input 3. I also get the system now switching to input 5 (Chromecast) when I turn off the projector. So next time I turn on the receiver and projector it's on input 5. The other thing happening is that info shows up randomly some times. So I get wrong output at 480p sometimes. Sometimes 4:3 ratio and sometimes it's on the wrong input and sometimes info pops up. I'll reach out to support.
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post #8020 of 8035 Old 06-24-2020, 10:45 AM
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Strangely enough nothing has changed in the system other than adding a new device the Facebook portal tv on input 3. I also get the system now switching to input 5 (Chromecast) when I turn off the projector. So next time I turn on the receiver and projector it's on input 5. The other thing happening is that info shows up randomly some times. So I get wrong output at 480p sometimes. Sometimes 4:3 ratio and sometimes it's on the wrong input and sometimes info pops up. I'll reach out to support.
I responded to your email, but here are a couple thoughts.

This could be caused by spurious IR pulses from a control device. While we have had on a very few IR sensors go bad in the history of Lumagen, this is consistent with a bad IR sensor outputting spurious pulses on its own. If this is a bad sensor or spurious IR plugging a mono mini phone plug into the IR Input temporarily would make this stop and be a way to test this theory.

Check to make sure you do not have auto-input-select enabled as this could cause an input change.

If you disconnect the new source, does the issue go away?

As I mentioned in my email back to you please give me a call.

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post #8021 of 8035 Old 06-27-2020, 07:32 AM
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A newbie / beginner calibration question - I have the CR100 & CR250 sensors combo (https://www.shopfsi.com/CR250-and-CR...-rh-cr-100.htm)
I understand I need to create a Colorimeter Matrix calibration for the CR100 before I begin calibrating the Lumagen, using Calman 2020 and the CR100 sesnor.

I did that, by connecting both sensors to my laptop and running the CRI Colorimeter Utility program. It took a couple of minutes and is done.
But now I'm questioning should I be doing this pre-lumagen-calibration-matrix-setup-of-the-CR100 ----> on my projector screen, instead of my laptop screen? And if so, will it be done by mirroring the test patterns from my laptop to the projector screen? And should the Lumagen processing by bypassed for this part?

I'm also curious how much of a difference this calibration of the CR100 using the CR250 provides. I mean, assuming I only run the CR250 once to calibrate the CR100 before I proceed to use the CR100 to calibrate my Lumagen/Projector - it seems like an excess spend purchasing both items. Which doesn't really matter now because I've already purchased both

If this topic is better at a dedicated calibration forum, please excuse me. I just figured it's related to Lumagen owners who try to get a grip about using Calman + sensors to create 3D LUT etc, themselves.
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post #8022 of 8035 Old 06-27-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
A newbie / beginner calibration question - I have the CR100 & CR250 sensors combo (https://www.shopfsi.com/CR250-and-CR...-rh-cr-100.htm)
I understand I need to create a Colorimeter Matrix calibration for the CR100 before I begin calibrating the Lumagen, using Calman 2020 and the CR100 sesnor.

I did that, by connecting both sensors to my laptop and running the CRI Colorimeter Utility program. It took a couple of minutes and is done.
But now I'm questioning should I be doing this pre-lumagen-calibration-matrix-setup-of-the-CR100 ----> on my projector screen, instead of my laptop screen? And if so, will it be done by mirroring the test patterns from my laptop to the projector screen? And should the Lumagen processing by bypassed for this part?

I'm also curious how much of a difference this calibration of the CR100 using the CR250 provides. I mean, assuming I only run the CR250 once to calibrate the CR100 before I proceed to use the CR100 to calibrate my Lumagen/Projector - it seems like an excess spend purchasing both items. Which doesn't really matter now because I've already purchased both

If this topic is better at a dedicated calibration forum, please excuse me. I just figured it's related to Lumagen owners who try to get a grip about using Calman + sensors to create 3D LUT etc, themselves.
Probe matching, if done, must be done on the display to be measured during profiling. It's not really about correcting errors in the probe (though it can do that in the process). It is about correcting for the difference in the way the probes see the light from the particular display type. A colorimeter effectively samples the light level through 3 colour filters and uses some math based on those filter characteristics (designed to be close to a standard observer) to come up with a colour, wheras a spectroradiometer measures distribution of wavelengths of light using a diffraction grating and sensor setup, and then puts that through some math to model through a standard observer to a colour. The filters are never a perfect match for the standard observer, and that can make colorimeters give different results with different display types that have different spectral power distribution for notionally the same displayed colours when viewed by a standard observer.

Ideally you do the probe matching with processing off and the maximal gamut possible in the mode you will be using. It is good practice not to use 100% stimulus patterns.

You're not specific about the type of projector. Standard UHP lamps are not very hard for a good colorimeter to do pretty well with as they are quite broadband. Blue laser + phosphor wheel a bit harder (blue is very spikey), RGB laser a bit harder still.

The difficulty with private ownership of highend probes I guess is that they're only high-end while you have them calibrated at manufacturer intervals. I myself have been guilty of not doing this with probes I've owned. In future I'm probably going to get someone in with a spectro that is in manufacturer calibration at least to do my probe matching, as certification of the colorimeter isn't so important. To be honest might get them to do the lot as the price of really good probes covers a lot of calibrations (unless you get them at knockdown price, or have geographical location issues that make travel costs prohibitive).
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post #8023 of 8035 Old 06-28-2020, 01:04 PM
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Reliable sources mentioned that some kind of color saturation desaturation upgrade is coming, is this for JVC 3D color volume tweaks or beneficial to other displays as well?

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post #8024 of 8035 Old 06-30-2020, 12:30 AM
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The difficulty with private ownership of highend probes I guess is that they're only high-end while you have them calibrated at manufacturer intervals. I myself have been guilty of not doing this with probes I've owned.
No difficulty, just send them in for recalibration. In my experience they stay stable longer than you expect, especially when sealed away in stable conditions.

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post #8025 of 8035 Old 06-30-2020, 02:44 AM
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No difficulty, just send them in for recalibration. In my experience they stay stable longer than you expect, especially when sealed away in stable conditions.
Sure, but the recalibration costs at even semi regular intervals further breaks the value equation for owner-operating as an enthusiast of these kind of probes that might see action if they're lucky every 6 months? (outside of an initial spike in interest when getting to know the probes and SW, assuming you don't have a sideline in reviewing etc that sees you changing gear very regularly - once you're au fait with how your gear behaves they're needed for a few hours - even less for the spectro).

I'm geekier than most but I still see my personal gear mostly languishing in its cases, as predominantly I watch lots of movies and try not to watch patterns!

I guess your view may be tainted by how nice it is just having these on hand for whatever, whenever and personal availability of funds, plus ease of access to folk who do have the gear to be able to offer a profiling service. I know in the UK of at least one calibrator who'll do a meter profile with a Jeti 1501 at a mutually convenient time for around £100 last time I checked, and I have friends who have rented probes from Jeti for a week for much less than the cost of recertification...
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post #8026 of 8035 Old 07-02-2020, 01:29 PM
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If I have a lot of time to let the process run, is there any advantage in allowing more points to be measured for 3D LUT than the maximum number that the Lumagen stores (17X17X17=4913)? I doubt it but thought I should ask.

Some calibration software allows generating up to 10000 measurements when creating a 3D LUT. I guess it's for devices that can store a larger lookup table.

But I was curious if there are any 'smarts' that would allow creating a bigger cube and somehow selecting out of it the most meaningful data up to the Lumagen storage capacity limit. I've read that even a sparsely populated 3D LUT does a good job, but any reason not to generate one that has every slot full? Or more than that

Another question - I saw that @jrp posted previously here that he can only recommend Lightspace for creating 3D LUT, as he didn't get good results with Calman. That was back at version 5 I believe. Has that changed with Calman 2020, or is Lightspace still the preferred software for calibrating the Lumagen?
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post #8027 of 8035 Old 07-02-2020, 02:30 PM
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If I have a lot of time to let the process run, is there any advantage in allowing more points to be measured for 3D LUT than the maximum number that the Lumagen stores (17X17X17=4913)? I doubt it but thought I should ask.

Some calibration software allows generating up to 10000 measurements when creating a 3D LUT. I guess it's for devices that can store a larger lookup table.

But I was curious if there are any 'smarts' that would allow creating a bigger cube and somehow selecting out of it the most meaningful data up to the Lumagen storage capacity limit. I've read that even a sparsely populated 3D LUT does a good job, but any reason not to generate one that has every slot full? Or more than that

Another question - I saw that @jrp posted previously here that he can only recommend Lightspace for creating 3D LUT, as he didn't get good results with Calman. That was back at version 5 I believe. Has that changed with Calman 2020, or is Lightspace still the preferred software for calibrating the Lumagen?
The profile size and LUT size are not really inter-related, even though they sometimes have similar sizes. The profile is about getting good coverage of the display gamut. In the case of doing a 709 profile, for example, many profile points effectively end up being thrown away because they represent out of gamut colours that don't need to be mapped.

There is no reason to limit the profile measured unless you either have very little time, slow probes or a display that exhibits odd uncontrollable drift behaviour. Do as many as you can.

There are a few situations where it can be practical or even preferable to make the LUT out of very few patches - eg just the far extents of the display gamut - a sparse profile. These situations are usually where the display cannot operate in a stable fashion for profiling (eg OLEDs in an HDR mode) or where the display is very linear and you want to get a LUT as quick as possible. You might also do it if you have a LUT engine which has trouble discerning the display characteristics above the measurement noise and can't generate clean LUTs from noisy data.

The Lumagens have 3 possible LUT sizes - 5^3, 9^3 and 17^3. None of these are ever sparsely populated, though they may have been generated from a sparse profile (previous point).

I like Lightspace and Colourspace very much, they generate very good LUTs for these products. Not got any real experience of Calman though I'm aware from seeing some volumetric LUTs generated by it in 3D views that it does look like the LUT engine is a fair bit rougher / less refined. maybe it will be improved.
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post #8028 of 8035 Old 07-03-2020, 08:53 AM
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In auto aspect menu
What does “merge to 1.78” mean?

One more thing.. every time I push pause or select a popup menu
Masks move to 1.78 even if I’m watching a 2.35 movie. is there
Some way to avoid this?
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post #8029 of 8035 Old 07-03-2020, 09:03 AM
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In auto aspect menu
What does “merge to 1.78” mean?

One more thing.. every time I push pause or select a popup menu
Masks move to 1.78 even if I’m watching a 2.35 movie. is there
Some way to avoid this?
It allows you to stop some ratios being detected as different to 1.78. For example, I don't want 4:3 to be detected as a different ratio, so merging it to 1.78 stops it being detected as different. Same as 2.35/2.4 merging.

Unfortunately in the scenarios you describe the content really is no longer 2.35 at that time, so auto aspect probably should change aspect. You have 2 options:
1) Enable sticky aspects and once the aspect has auto detected to 2.35, press 2.35 again. That should make the aspect stick and prevent AA from moving the masks unless sticky is reset (changing refresh or dynamic range is usually enough to reset sticky).
2) Use Alt-Clr on remote to temporarily disable auto-aspect, do whatever you want to do, and then after do Alt-NLS to re-enable it.
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post #8030 of 8035 Old 07-03-2020, 10:13 AM
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Thank you so much Bobof
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post #8031 of 8035 Old 07-06-2020, 02:45 AM
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I'm down the rabbit hole of learning how to calibrate using some pretty expensive meters (CR100 & CR250).
If anything, it made me understand even more what an incredibly remarkable product the Lumagen is.
I think I pretty much nailed SDR calibration. I'm getting pretty good results both in Calman and Colourspace.
Less so with HDR
To verify first about SDR: I've turned all Lumagen processing off - No Darbee, 1080p signal in, 1080p signal out. I mean as less processing as possible in Lumagen at this phase. I'm using the Lumagen as the pattern generator. After going way deep in the rabbit hole - the sense of accomplishment is so high, and it's such a joy to start mastering another skill. I'm aiming for D65, Rec709 and after measuring/tunning I get DeltaE 2000 of less than 1 for both gray-scale, primary colors, and secondary colors. Cool. I tune everything I can first in the Projector settings (after turning off all 'optimization' settings) and then tune gray-scale & 3d LUT in the Lumagen CMS0.

First question: what's a decent cd/md2 - nits - ansi-nits - ft/l result I should expect to get? My understanding is that these are all different measures of the same thing. I'm talking about a projector in a dark room. My PJ is the Sony 995 laser projector, and per its spec, it should output up to 2200 lumens.

Now the rabbit hole gets complicated for me.
When it comes to calibrating for HDR - I start by using a different user-setting in my projector and aim for CMS1. I understand I'll need to manually switch between two projector 'slots' for SDR and HDR content. No worries about that.
Here's what I'm missing. Should I manually set my projector to turn on HDR mode when I measure/calibrate? I thought I shouldn't as anyway I'm using (or will be using) the Lumagen's DTM so the PJ will get SDR2020, and the HDR flag will be off. So I thought I should manually change the PJ to 2020 colorspace but with HDR off. Again turn off all processing as possible in the Lumagen, select the Lumagen as a pattern generator with HDR outputs, and then start measuring. After trying this, I got such crazy readings I couldn't even start optimizing. I also tried forcing the PJ to HLG/HDR, turning on/off the HDR flag, outputting HDR2020 instead of SDR2020. To no avail.

I hope posting this here in the Lumagen thread is fine, vs. the dedicated calibration thread, as I thought there's high chance the answers would be of interest to other newbie Lumagen others.

Thanks.
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post #8032 of 8035 Old 07-06-2020, 06:58 PM
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I have recently acquired a Radiance Pro, I have a quick question about calibration. I use the Calman software. When I run the pre-calibration tests for the grayscale, my 100% is a little off and the Calman software asks me to do a 2-pt adjustment ON the display. Should I adjust the Gains ON the display BEFORE I run the 21-pt 1D LUT? I'm asking this because the manual always stresses the fact that everything should be set at their default values (thereby shifting the calibration load to the Radiance Pro).
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post #8033 of 8035 Old 07-07-2020, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
Now the rabbit hole gets complicated for me.
When it comes to calibrating for HDR - I start by using a different user-setting in my projector and aim for CMS1. I understand I'll need to manually switch between two projector 'slots' for SDR and HDR content. No worries about that.
Here's what I'm missing. Should I manually set my projector to turn on HDR mode when I measure/calibrate? I thought I shouldn't as anyway I'm using (or will be using) the Lumagen's DTM so the PJ will get SDR2020, and the HDR flag will be off. So I thought I should manually change the PJ to 2020 colorspace but with HDR off. Again turn off all processing as possible in the Lumagen, select the Lumagen as a pattern generator with HDR outputs, and then start measuring. After trying this, I got such crazy readings I couldn't even start optimizing. I also tried forcing the PJ to HLG/HDR, turning on/off the HDR flag, outputting HDR2020 instead of SDR2020. To no avail.

I hope posting this here in the Lumagen thread is fine, vs. the dedicated calibration thread, as I thought there's high chance the answers would be of interest to other newbie Lumagen others.

Thanks.



I do not know what the equivalent model is in Europe but below is my general suggestion for you.


I suspect you have a VW870 or 760. This is from memory. These units will alter the colourspace settings they allow you to use based on the colourspace flag they see coming from the scaler. If you send SDR P3 or SDR 2020 from Lumagen they will probably only allow you REC2020 option of colourspace choice in the projector. if you send SDR 709 you will find COL 1,2, 3 USER and 709 as options i think. Anyway, you want to use the one with widest coverage that is most linear for your SDR REC2020 LUT. To do this set your CMS 1 to SDR 709, HDR flag off, 2020-601/709 off. Set the scaler to output 4K24Hz as that is what you will likely be watching your HDR material at but do not play any HDR in to the scaler, play some SDR material.. Now do a Quick PRIMARY only profile of COL 2 AND COL 3 and look at the RGB separation chart for each and also the CIE chart coverage. I’d save those measurement runs so you can compare them to the next one.

Set CMS 1 to output SDR 2020 and HDR FLAG OFF and 2020-601/709 to OFF and do a Quick Profile PRIMARY only measurement of the REC2020 colourspace in the projector. Again, look at the coverage and the RGB separation. I suspect you will find that COL2 or COL3 will be superior to 2020 in projector for RGB separation and that the coverage area will be virtually identical. If so, choose the COL 2 or COL3, whichever is better and set the CMS 1 to the settings i listed above.

Now set the 100percent white point balance in the PJ using it’s controls. Then on your cube profile measurements for the LUT. Make the lUT to target UHD 2020 in ColorSpace/LightSpace and upload it. Even though the Lumagen is sending SDR 709 it is irrelevant as the LUT is targeting 2020.

See how you get on with that.

The alternative you can try, if you have time, is to CMS 1 to SDR P3 with HDR flag off and gamut covert to N. Set the PJ to 2020 colourspace or if it has it DCI and then do a profile and create a LUT for DCI P3 D65 with gamma 2.4 IN ColourSpace/LightSpace. One the LUT is uploaded go back and set Gamut Convert to Y and then compare that image quality with the SDR 2020 LUT image quality. You could use two different CMS slots in two different memories so you could easily swap between them once done.

Good luck!
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post #8034 of 8035 Old 07-07-2020, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
I do not know what the equivalent model is in Europe but below is my general suggestion for you.


I suspect you have a VW870 or 760. This is from memory. These units will alter the colourspace settings they allow you to use based on the colourspace flag they see coming from the scaler. If you send SDR P3 or SDR 2020 from Lumagen they will probably only allow you REC2020 option of colourspace choice in the projector. if you send SDR 709 you will find COL 1,2, 3 USER and 709 as options i think. Anyway, you want to use the one with widest coverage that is most linear for your SDR REC2020 LUT. To do this set your CMS 1 to SDR 709, HDR flag off, 2020-601/709 off. Set the scaler to output 4K24Hz as that is what you will likely be watching your HDR material at but do not play any HDR in to the scaler, play some SDR material.. Now do a Quick PRIMARY only profile of COL 2 AND COL 3 and look at the RGB separation chart for each and also the CIE chart coverage. I’d save those measurement runs so you can compare them to the next one.

Set CMS 1 to output SDR 2020 and HDR FLAG OFF and 2020-601/709 to OFF and do a Quick Profile PRIMARY only measurement of the REC2020 colourspace in the projector. Again, look at the coverage and the RGB separation. I suspect you will find that COL2 or COL3 will be superior to 2020 in projector for RGB separation and that the coverage area will be virtually identical. If so, choose the COL 2 or COL3, whichever is better and set the CMS 1 to the settings i listed above.

Now set the 100percent white point balance in the PJ using it’s controls. Then on your cube profile measurements for the LUT. Make the lUT to target UHD 2020 in ColorSpace/LightSpace and upload it. Even though the Lumagen is sending SDR 709 it is irrelevant as the LUT is targeting 2020.

See how you get on with that.

The alternative you can try, if you have time, is to CMS 1 to SDR P3 with HDR flag off and gamut covert to N. Set the PJ to 2020 colourspace or if it has it DCI and then do a profile and create a LUT for DCI P3 D65 with gamma 2.4 IN ColourSpace/LightSpace. One the LUT is uploaded go back and set Gamut Convert to Y and then compare that image quality with the SDR 2020 LUT image quality. You could use two different CMS slots in two different memories so you could easily swap between them once done.

Good luck!
Thank you so very much! It is indeed the VW870ES. Tremendous help in your post.
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post #8035 of 8035 Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM
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23.976 fps Setting

Since 99% of the time I play 3840x2160p 23.976 fps material, I tried this setting on one source, Zidoo UHD2000, to minimize switching times. But the Zidoo switches back to 3840x2160p 60 fps unless I bypass the Radiance Pro. How to set the Pro allow 23.976 fps setting on the Zidoo?

Update: This seems to be an issue with Zidoo, not the Lumagen. Both my Oppo 203 and Zappiti accept frame rate settings of "24" with the radiance Pro and everything plays normally. However, I can set the Zidoo at 23.976 fps when connected to my Asus monitor as well as my TV.

Last edited by cappy1; Yesterday at 01:01 PM. Reason: Have more info.
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