New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 7027 Old 12-06-2015, 07:24 PM
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The reset in the CMS menu only affects the CMS.

In addition in the Save Menu, you can reset specific subsections of the configuration.

Make sure to do a Save after any changes.

Thank you!
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post #92 of 7027 Old 12-09-2015, 01:03 AM
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Thanks Jim...is pip coming soon?
PiP/PoP is a ways out. Perhaps end of Q1 or early Q2.

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post #93 of 7027 Old 12-09-2015, 05:15 AM
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Hi Jim,

I know you have a lot more important things to do, but an audio lipsync feature would be great. Some of these new 4k TVs and projectors have shocking delays built-in.

Any time next week will be fine
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post #94 of 7027 Old 12-09-2015, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5 View Post

I know you have a lot more important things to do, but an audio lipsync feature would be great. Some of these new 4k TVs and projectors have shocking delays built-in.
Agreed been struggling with lipsync for a while now
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post #95 of 7027 Old 12-09-2015, 05:55 AM
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Been requesting similar myself for a few generations now...

And this isn't just a Lumagen issue, all A/V devices should be 0ms latency devices IMO, that is audio and video should always exit at the same time. In the broadcast industry this is expected. Would be nice to see it in the consumer market, but I won't hold my breath.

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post #96 of 7027 Old 12-09-2015, 06:58 PM
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I have seen the block diagram of the radiance units somewhere before(more detailed than the one in the manual). Audio signal path is directly fed into the outputs, never goes through the fpga, audio processing isn't possible unfortunately. Video can be delayed if audio arrives late but usually not the case. Jim can verify this.

When is the production model expected? Beta discount is very generous for those before it ends.

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post #97 of 7027 Old 12-09-2015, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
I have seen the block diagram of the radiance units somewhere before(more detailed than the one in the manual). Audio signal path is directly fed into the outputs, never goes through the fpga, audio processing isn't possible unfortunately. Video can be delayed if audio arrives late but usually not the case. Jim can verify this.

When is the production model expected? Beta discount is very generous for those before it ends.
The hardware is production according the Lumagen...the software is in beta.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
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post #98 of 7027 Old 12-10-2015, 07:25 AM
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Sorry I meant the production software and the end of beta discount.
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post #99 of 7027 Old 12-10-2015, 12:27 PM
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Which, if any, of the Radiance models are able to take a 2160 UHD input and output 1080P60?
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post #100 of 7027 Old 12-10-2015, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Which, if any, of the Radiance models are able to take a 2160 UHD input and output 1080P60?
Any of the Pro models that this thread is about can take in an UHD signal and output it as 1080P.

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post #101 of 7027 Old 12-10-2015, 03:00 PM
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If you want to downscale 4K to 2K, you will need an HDfury integrator or the Gefen HDCP stripper. All UHD signals so far require HDCP2.2 which 2K displays lack.
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post #102 of 7027 Old 12-10-2015, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
Any of the Pro models that this thread is about can take in an UHD signal and output it as 1080P.
Thank you
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post #103 of 7027 Old 12-10-2015, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
If you want to downscale 4K to 2K, you will need an HDfury integrator or the Gefen HDCP stripper. All UHD signals so far require HDCP2.2 which 2K displays lack.
Yes I am aware of the hdcp 2.2 requirement thank you....
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post #104 of 7027 Old 12-12-2015, 03:00 PM
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This isn't a fast enough moving thread to probably save my butt tonight but: I've been testing my new JVC RS600 projector attached via HDMI directly to my Blu-Ray player for the last week or so and it's worked fine. (It's replacing a last generation RS57 JVC).

Tonight I tried to simply swap it into my system, hooking it up to the HDMI cable that goes to my Lumagen 2041, which does all my video switching. When I do this, the projector crashes - no picture, can't access menus, can't even turn it off. When I unplug the HDMI cable, the projector becomes responsive again.

Is there any suggestions as to what might be happening or for some troubleshooting?

More info: When I first hooked up my Oppo Blu-Ray player to the new JVC I didn't get a picture. Turned out I had to switch the HDMI signal to "B" edid type. This is apparently for "legacy equipment compatibiity" as the JVC has the latest HDMI standard for UHD. That solved the problem for the blu-ray player. I would think the same setting should be used for the Lumagen doing the switching? It all worked for my previous JVC projector.
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post #105 of 7027 Old 12-12-2015, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
This isn't a fast enough moving thread to probably save my butt tonight but: I've been testing my new JVC RS600 projector attached via HDMI directly to my Blu-Ray player for the last week or so and it's worked fine. (It's replacing a last generation RS57 JVC).

Tonight I tried to simply swap it into my system, hooking it up to the HDMI cable that goes to my Lumagen 2041, which does all my video switching. When I do this, the projector crashes - no picture, can't access menus, can't even turn it off. When I unplug the HDMI cable, the projector becomes responsive again.

Is there any suggestions as to what might be happening or for some troubleshooting?

More info: When I first hooked up my Oppo Blu-Ray player to the new JVC I didn't get a picture. Turned out I had to switch the HDMI signal to "B" edid type. This is apparently for "legacy equipment compatibiity" as the JVC has the latest HDMI standard for UHD. That solved the problem for the blu-ray player. I would think the same setting should be used for the Lumagen doing the switching? It all worked for my previous JVC projector.
Rich

Trying to understand what you mean by "simply swap into my system"...trying to insert the Lumagen between the Oppo and the new JVC?

Is your Lumagen firmware up to date?

Is the issue with the Oppo as a source? In other words, if you just connect the Lumagen to the projector without the Oppo or any other source connected, does the projector lock up, or can you at least operate the projector and call up the Lumagen menus?

You might also want to try changing power up sequence of your three devices and see if the condition changes.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system

Last edited by thrang; 12-12-2015 at 03:13 PM.
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post #106 of 7027 Old 12-12-2015, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Rich

Trying to understand what you mean by "simply swap into my system"...trying to insert the Lumagen between the Oppo and the new JVC?

Is your Lumagen firmware up to date?

Is the issue with the Oppo as a source? In other words, if you just connect the Lumagen to the projector without the Oppo or any other source connected, does the projector lock up, or can you at least operate the projector and call up the Lumagen menus?

You might also want to try changing power up sequence of your three devices and see if the condition changes.
Thrang.

I mean: I've simply hooked up the new projector to the same HDMI cable as the old projector. So now it's hooked to the HDMI cable that goes to the Lumagen (which is video switching my cable box, blu ray player, etc). When I do this, the projector becomes unresponsive.

Wheres when I had the new projector hooked up directly to my Oppo Blu Ray player, it worked fine.

My HDMI cables are 45 feet long, (the best ones Blue Jeans cable sells) and have never had trouble passing any signals, 3D, 4k or otherwise, so I don't think it's a failure of the cable.
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post #107 of 7027 Old 12-12-2015, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Thrang.

I mean: I've simply hooked up the new projector to the same HDMI cable as the old projector. So now it's hooked to the HDMI cable that goes to the Lumagen (which is video switching my cable box, blu ray player, etc). When I do this, the projector becomes unresponsive.

Wheres when I had the new projector hooked up directly to my Oppo Blu Ray player, it worked fine.

My HDMI cables are 45 feet long, (the best ones Blue Jeans cable sells) and have never had trouble passing any signals, 3D, 4k or otherwise, so I don't think it's a failure of the cable.
Just the Lumagen to the projector...does it lock up?

If you don't have time to check firmware, do you have a dual output Oppo? If so, connect the projector HDMI back to the Oppo, and the second HDMI out for audio to your receiver/processor, which I'm presuming is near your Oppo...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
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post #108 of 7027 Old 12-12-2015, 04:19 PM
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I had to bypass the Lumagen, run the HDMI cable directly from my cable box to the projector to watch the fights tonight. At least I got a picture happening for that.

I'll have to re-visit this, and hopefully Jim can offer some suggestions for troubleshooting for when I hook it back up to the Lumagen. Thanks again.
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post #109 of 7027 Old 12-13-2015, 06:47 AM
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45ft / 15m is right on the edge of usable hdmi, maybe the input of the new pj is more sensitive to signal degradation. I had to change hdmi lead to a hybrid optical lead to get 4k out at that distance. The lumagen output stages are driven differently from old kit and top quality leads are needed.
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post #110 of 7027 Old 12-13-2015, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
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45ft / 15m is right on the edge of usable hdmi, maybe the input of the new pj is more sensitive to signal degradation. I had to change hdmi lead to a hybrid optical lead to get 4k out at that distance. The lumagen output stages are driven differently from old kit and top quality leads are needed.
After all, we're talking `LOW' voltages, not 110.
It's usually recommended a max of 20 feet, after that an amplifier is needed.
Also at issue, the longer the run, the more sensitive one has to be to any electrical wires running in parallel causing noise and interference.
Plus with all the interference emitting dimmer switches, electronics, and apparatuses wanting to call home, may also cause degrading of the signal.
Lastly, corrosion does start on contacts over a period of time. Re-inserting plugs several times may help with this.
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post #111 of 7027 Old 12-13-2015, 09:12 AM
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Well, it seems more the new RS600 than anything else, reading what Rich is saying...the existing Lumagen and previous JVC seem to work flawlessly with the same cabling. Or there is some setting in the Lumagen that is not right for newer JVC, though I can't imagine what that is at the moment...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #112 of 7027 Old 12-13-2015, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
This isn't a fast enough moving thread to probably save my butt tonight but: I've been testing my new JVC RS600 projector attached via HDMI directly to my Blu-Ray player for the last week or so and it's worked fine. (It's replacing a last generation RS57 JVC).

Tonight I tried to simply swap it into my system, hooking it up to the HDMI cable that goes to my Lumagen 2041, which does all my video switching. When I do this, the projector crashes - no picture, can't access menus, can't even turn it off. When I unplug the HDMI cable, the projector becomes responsive again.

Is there any suggestions as to what might be happening or for some troubleshooting?

More info: When I first hooked up my Oppo Blu-Ray player to the new JVC I didn't get a picture. Turned out I had to switch the HDMI signal to "B" edid type. This is apparently for "legacy equipment compatibiity" as the JVC has the latest HDMI standard for UHD. That solved the problem for the blu-ray player. I would think the same setting should be used for the Lumagen doing the switching? It all worked for my previous JVC projector.
Try switching back to Edit A with the Lumagen in the chain. I have the JVC with a Mini 3D, HDMI 1, Edit 1 which works for me.

John
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post #113 of 7027 Old 12-13-2015, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jcarle View Post
Try switching back to Edit A with the Lumagen in the chain. I have the JVC with a Mini 3D, HDMI 1, Edit 1 which works for me.

John
Thanks, I'll try that.
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post #114 of 7027 Old 12-14-2015, 08:37 AM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

check also the second HDMI input of your jvc. Might connect better


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post #115 of 7027 Old 12-14-2015, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
I have seen the block diagram of the radiance units somewhere before(more detailed than the one in the manual). Audio signal path is directly fed into the outputs, never goes through the fpga, audio processing isn't possible unfortunately. Video can be delayed if audio arrives late but usually not the case. Jim can verify this.

When is the production model expected? Beta discount is very generous for those before it ends.
As noted the Radiance products do not have an audio delay feature. We decided it best to let the audio processor do the audio delay.

For the Radiance Pro models (only) we are considering a video delay. This would be used with audio processors that have a long audio latency for uncompressed audio format(s) that exceed the base video processing delay. I am not sure how many audio processors have this longer audio latency, but I know that there are some that do.

===

We do not have a date for going to production-software-release. It is a ways out though. Note: As mentioned elsewhere, we believe the hardware for the Radiance Pro to be at production status already.

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post #116 of 7027 Old 12-14-2015, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Thrang.

I mean: I've simply hooked up the new projector to the same HDMI cable as the old projector. So now it's hooked to the HDMI cable that goes to the Lumagen (which is video switching my cable box, blu ray player, etc). When I do this, the projector becomes unresponsive.

Wheres when I had the new projector hooked up directly to my Oppo Blu Ray player, it worked fine.

My HDMI cables are 45 feet long, (the best ones Blue Jeans cable sells) and have never had trouble passing any signals, 3D, 4k or otherwise, so I don't think it's a failure of the cable.
If you are willing, temporarily move the Radiance to where the projector is and use a 6 foot cable from the Radiance to the Projector and let the Radiance deal with the long HDMI cable. Assuming this works as I expect, then it show a HDMI cable marginality. Not that it has gone bad, but that the edge rates from the 2041 are too fast for it. For HDMI transmission-lines, it is the edge rate that determines how good the HDMI cable needs to be. We have had a number of systems that needed a faster HDMI cable using the 2XXX (and now 4XXX) processor verses older Radiance models (e.g. the Mini-3D).

On the Sony projectors Input 2 is much better than Input 1 in our, and our customers, experience. There might be something similar in your projector. So you might want to try a different input.

I recommend always using an active HDMI cable (or a passive and one of our extenders) for 4k HDMI output chips (like in the Radiance 2XXX and 4XXX units, even when running 2k) for lengths above 15 feet or so. I have been recommending the Monoprice Redmere cables as they have helped in a number of systems and are not very expensive. Other cable vendors active cables may be fine as well, but I have been using Monorprice since they work well.
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post #117 of 7027 Old 12-14-2015, 07:38 PM
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Yes, have a 35 or 40 foot Redmere to my 1100 from the Pro and its rock solid

What is odd for Rich is it seems the Radiance and his previous JVC worked fine with his same cable.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
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post #118 of 7027 Old 12-15-2015, 10:44 AM
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Yes, have a 35 or 40 foot Redmere to my 1100 from the Pro and its rock solid

What is odd for Rich is it seems the Radiance and his previous JVC worked fine with his same cable.
Good point.

The HDMI connection is a "system" encompassing the HDMI output chip, HDMI PCB transmission line design in the source, the HDMI output connector, the HDMI cable (plug, cable, plug all have an effect), the HDMI input connector, the HDMI transmission lines on the receiver PCB, and the HDMI receiver chip.

Changing the HDMI input connector, HDMI transmission lines on the receiver PCB, and/or HDMI receiver chip can easily affect the connection. We have seen that some projectors and TVs do not have as good an input layout as desired to do well as the end point of a long HDMI cable. This is why an active cable can help a lot. It effectively gives the projector/TV only a few inch connection to deal with.

When I design an HDMI input I try my best to keep the PCB traces very short and as close to the specified differential, and single-ended, impedance as possible. For example the input traces in the Radiance Pro 444X units are 7 mm long (about 1/4 inch), including the input ESD device. I have seen 3 or 4 inch long traces on what appears to be a general purpose FR4 PCB in some projectors/TVs, and in my opinion this is too long. It puts a discontinuity (the connector and its pads) 4 inches from the receiver chip instead of right at the receiver chip as desired. In addition commonly used FR4 PCB material does not have ideal impedance control, and the differential and single-ended impedance can actually vary some from unit to unit with longer traces.

Of course having some trace length is unavoidable if an HDMI input chip has multiple inputs. Even then I try to keep trace length to about an inch. I think much longer than this is asking to have long HDMI cable issues.

Not sure how I ended up on my soap-box about HDMI input design, but I will get off it now.
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post #119 of 7027 Old 12-15-2015, 12:19 PM
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Well, a bunch of this is going over my head somewhat. Moving my Lumagen to my projector location is a very, very daunting idea given how my system is cabled and set up and programmed. I want to try anything I can before having to re-cable or do stuff like that.

It's very strange: the Lumagen worked fine with my previous JVC projector, and the Beledon HDMI cable - their best for long runs - has been very robust over it's 45 feet. It passes 1080p, 3D and even 4K (upscaled output from the 2041) signals effortlessly. And the HDMI cable passes 1080p fine to the new projector if bypassing the Lumagen. Why then would only switching projectors cause this problem in the chain? Do I understand that Jim is implying the new JVC's HDMI input is "not as good" as the last one in terms of receiving signals? (That would be especially weird, since HDMI reliability was one of the things JVC worked on and touted as improved in these models, and more reliable syncing was reported by people like Cine4home in testing them).
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post #120 of 7027 Old 12-15-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
It's very strange: the Lumagen worked fine with my previous JVC projector, and the Beledon HDMI cable - their best for long runs - has been very robust over it's 45 feet. It passes 1080p, 3D and even 4K (upscaled output from the 2041) signals effortlessly. And the HDMI cable passes 1080p fine to the new projector if bypassing the Lumagen. Why then would only switching projectors cause this problem in the chain? Do I understand that Jim is implying the new JVC's HDMI input is "not as good" as the last one in terms of receiving signals? (That would be especially weird, since HDMI reliability was one of the things JVC worked on and touted as improved in these models, and more reliable syncing was reported by people like Cine4home in testing them).
I had a lot of problems with HDMI I put my AVM50V in my system. Cables that "passed 1080p fine" now had terrible handshaking problems. The reality is the ability to pass 1080p is not a sufficient test for whether the cables are good enough in all circumstances. I'll also throw out that belden cables (I assume you're talking Blue Jeans Cable) aren't high speed certified at 45 feet, they're only certified high speed to 25 feet.

If I had to interpret what Jim is saying, I'd say this. The 4K output Lumagens produce signals with higher frequency requirements than older Lumagen's with 1080p chips (they probably run at higher internal frequencies). Further the new JVCs have 18Gbps chips vs the older JVC's with 10.2Gbps chips, these are necessarily more sensitive, but probably in both good (being able to pick up 18Gbps) and bad (less forgiving to marginal cabling).

It might be worth trying a cable actually certified High Speed at 45 feet, like an active cable.
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