New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 90 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2671 of 5828 Old 02-21-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
I have using the newest beta from ChromaPure. Superb results on rec 709, I am just trying the SDR2020, have not tried HDR 2020. I barely understand the Lumagen, so it is a slow process for me, but Auto Cal and REC 709 was great.
Good to hear; I'm currently watching from the sidelines, still using an older 2041 and Chromapure 2 but I know eventually I'll follow your path.

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post #2672 of 5828 Old 02-21-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by baseball0618 View Post
Has anyone used ChromaPure for calibrating through the Radiance pro? If so what are your thoughts on how well it works?
I am a long time user of Chromapure and Lumagen Radiance Pro. I also live 25 minutes drive from Lumagen's headquarters. Jim Peterson was gracious enough to spend some face-to-face time with me going over the problems associated with HDR versus SDR calibrations. Also, I have had many email exchanges with Tom Huffman from Chromapure on this subject. Jim Peterson is emphatic that SDR2020 calibrations are the better way to go especially for projectors. I have a JVC RS600 and have never tried to manually calibrate it. I always use Chrompaure Auto-Calibration.

Auto-Calibration will try to calibrate to Chromapure HDR10 or HDR10-Projector gamma. It will be successful up to signal intensities up to about 50%. Above that everything is white clipped and the results are terrible because the projector had already reached its maximum light output. With a fresh lamp or laser light source projector the white clip point could be higher. Furthermore, once the projector has reached maximum light output there is nothing left for the Pro's Intensity Mapping algorithm to work with. Turning it on makes the resulting image completely unwatchable.

On the other hand, if you setup both Chromapure and the Pro to do SDR2020 calibration but using a Rec 709 source and 2.4 power law gamma Auto-Calibration works fantastically well. After running Auto-Cal turn on Pro's Intensity Mapping to put the sparkle back in the image. You really need to be comfortable navigating the Pro's menu to get the setup correct because it is somewhat detailed.
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post #2673 of 5828 Old 02-21-2018, 03:38 PM
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Yes, Chromapure autocal does a great job calibrating with the Radiance Pro. I am new to all of it as well but I could tell a difference and it was a great improvement. I have LightSpace as well as Chromapure and I am just stepping into the water with both the programs. Any info anyone has to get the most out of my JVC RS600 would be appreciated. I haven?t turned on the intensity mapping on the Lumagen yet, just been way to busy. Can?t wait to see how much that helps the picture come to life.
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post #2674 of 5828 Old 02-21-2018, 11:17 PM
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autocal 709 in sdr2020?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibia View Post

On the other hand, if you setup both Chromapure and the Pro to do SDR2020 calibration but using a Rec 709 source and 2.4 power law gamma Auto-Calibration works fantastically well. After running Auto-Cal turn on Pro's Intensity Mapping to put the sparkle back in the image. You really need to be comfortable navigating the Pro's menu to get the setup correct because it is somewhat detailed.

Is the fallowing auto cal procedure correct?
1) Select CMS0 in Lumange Pro , Colorspace SDR2020.
2) Autocalibrate with 3D Autocal Software, SDR709 ,Gamma 2.4 .
3)Copy CMS0 to CMS1
4)When watch HDR source , enable CMS1 HDR Mapping, set Gamma to 3D LUT =SDR


Thanks
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post #2675 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurli View Post
Is the fallowing auto cal procedure correct?
1) Select CMS0 in Lumange Pro , Colorspace SDR2020.
2) Autocalibrate with 3D Autocal Software, SDR709 ,Gamma 2.4 .
3)Copy CMS0 to CMS1
4)When watch HDR source , enable CMS1 HDR Mapping, set Gamma to 3D LUT =SDR

Thanks
I am not familier with latest Chromapurebut i can add the following.
1) I find that with a few projectors you do not want to set CMS colourspace to SDR/REC2020. This is because the REC2020 data from Radiance sends them projector in to it's REC2020 colourspace and this is usually achieved in the projector by putting a filter in the lightpath, reducing light output, sometimes considerably, and also by the projector then doing some form of internal CMS that is usualy non linear in its errors and makes it harder for a LUT to fix if there is an option i send SDR/REC709 and see if i can find a colourgamut setting in the proejctor that is Native and is close to DCI
2) I would expect that at this point you would not calibrte for SDR/REC709 GAMMA2.4 You want to aim for REC2020 Gamma 2.4
3) agree
4) agree

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post #2676 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
I am not familier with latest Chromapurebut i can add the following.
1) I find that with a few projectors you do not want to set CMS colourspace to SDR/REC2020. This is because the REC2020 data from Radiance sends them projector in to it's REC2020 colourspace and this is usually achieved in the projector by putting a filter in the lightpath, reducing light output, sometimes considerably, and also by the projector then doing some form of internal CMS that is usualy non linear in its errors and makes it harder for a LUT to fix if there is an option i send SDR/REC709 and see if i can find a colourgamut setting in the proejctor that is Native and is close to DCI
2) I would expect that at this point you would not calibrte for SDR/REC709 GAMMA2.4 You want to aim for REC2020 Gamma 2.4
3) agree
4) agree
1)I am calibrating Oled tv,
2) I am using Calman, not CP3.How to autocal SDR2020? I am trying to learn from Jim's "Radiance Pro Training.PDF"
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post #2677 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurli View Post
1)I am calibrating Oled tv,
2) I am using Calman, not CP3.How to autocal SDR2020? I am trying to learn from Jim's "Radiance Pro Training.PDF"
You should ask how to autocal REC2020 GAMMA 2.4 on calman support forum. I no longer use it so cannot advise on steps you need to take with that software. Sorry.

If you are using an OLED though then it gets more complicated. I am with client right now so cannot go in to steps i'd take...

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post #2678 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
I am not familier with latest Chromapurebut i can add the following.
1) I find that with a few projectors you do not want to set CMS colourspace to SDR/REC2020. This is because the REC2020 data from Radiance sends them projector in to it's REC2020 colourspace and this is usually achieved in the projector by putting a filter in the lightpath, reducing light output, sometimes considerably, and also by the projector then doing some form of internal CMS that is usualy non linear in its errors and makes it harder for a LUT to fix if there is an option i send SDR/REC709 and see if i can find a colourgamut setting in the proejctor that is Native and is close to DCI
2) I would expect that at this point you would not calibrte for SDR/REC709 GAMMA2.4 You want to aim for REC2020 Gamma 2.4
3) agree
4) agree
Gordon, I am confused.
You say in line 1 that REC2020 causes the filter to be engaged, but say in line 2 to aim for REC2020
Won't the filter still be engaged?
I probably have one of those projectors (JVC 640) but do not know how to tell if the filter has engaged or it is doing the other things you speak about

Dan
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post #2679 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 05:14 AM
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The JVCs only engage the filter if Radiance CMS Colourspace is set to HDR2020 or HDR metadata is passed to them any other way. Apart from that they don't switch picture modes automatically.
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Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
VP/Calibration: Lumagen Radiance Pro, LightSpace CMS, x-rite i1 Pro 2, x-rite i1 Display 3
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post #2680 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
You should ask how to autocal REC2020 GAMMA 2.4 on calman support forum. I no longer use it so cannot advise on steps you need to take with that software. Sorry.

If you are using an OLED though then it gets more complicated. I am with client right now so cannot go in to steps i'd take...
With CalMAN, forget doing the 3D AutoCal with 2020. No current display can hit 2020 primaries, and the resulting 3D LUT will be messed up. The better approach, for now, is to correct the white point on the display and then do only a 1D LUT, eg greyscale, which will fix much of the colour cast in the 2020 image, while leaving the display's primaries alone. This can go a long way to getting great results. On my Z1 projector I get almost perfect P3 results within 2020 this way. On my OLED it's not quite as good, but still much much better than nothing at all.

Settings to use, especially if you then intend to use the Pros HDR Intensity Mapping in CalMAN is:

Colourspace: 2020 SDR
Gamma: Power 2.4

PM me if you need specific questions answered.

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My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, JVC Z1, Lumagen Pro, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500
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post #2681 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
Gordon, I am confused.
You say in line 1 that REC2020 causes the filter to be engaged, but say in line 2 to aim for REC2020
Won't the filter still be engaged?
I probably have one of those projectors (JVC 640) but do not know how to tell if the filter has engaged or it is doing the other things you speak about
Others have answered but for clarity. Some displays will engage their rec2020 colour decoding when sent SDR/REC2020 colourspace format in the Lumagen.

Line 2 is a separate issue. That is about what you are trying to get the calibration software to do.

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post #2682 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
Gordon, I am confused.
You say in line 1 that REC2020 causes the filter to be engaged, but say in line 2 to aim for REC2020
Won't the filter still be engaged?
I probably have one of those projectors (JVC 640) but do not know how to tell if the filter has engaged or it is doing the other things you speak about
Others have answered but for clarity. Some displays will engage their rec2020 colour decoding when sent SDR/REC2020 colourspace format in the Lumagen.

Line 2 is a separate issue. That is about what you are trying to get the calibration software to do.

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post #2683 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
The JVCs only engage the filter if Radiance CMS Colourspace is set to HDR2020 or HDR metadata is passed to them any other way. Apart from that they don't switch picture modes automatically.
So If I have CMS1 set to output SDR2020, does that mean NO HDR metadata is being passed to the projector?
I apologize for my poor understanding of this
thanks

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post #2684 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
So If I have CMS1 set to output SDR2020, does that mean NO HDR metadata is being passed to the projector?
Yes, there will be no HDR metadata passed to the projector if you do this.

Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
VP/Calibration: Lumagen Radiance Pro, LightSpace CMS, x-rite i1 Pro 2, x-rite i1 Display 3
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post #2685 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Yes, there will be no HDR metadata passed to the projector if you do this.
thanks, your advice greatly appreciated

Dan
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post #2686 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 11:42 AM
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
Gordon, I am confused.
You say in line 1 that REC2020 causes the filter to be engaged, but say in line 2 to aim for REC2020
Won't the filter still be engaged?
I probably have one of those projectors (JVC 640) but do not know how to tell if the filter has engaged or it is doing the other things you speak about


What Gordon is referring to, is not using sdr 2020 colour space in Lumagen and use sdr 709 instead, but use Rec2020 as a target reference when you take measurements (this relates to chromapure) this is very important, as when LUT is sent to Lumagen to do the Tone Mapping it expects it in SDR2020 container (in light space software which I use now a lot as well, you can define what target gamut you are referencing to) the same should be in ChromaPure, but I could not remember where as I stopped using it 6 months ago.


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post #2687 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
What Gordon is referring to, is not using sdr 2020 colour space in Lumagen and use sdr 709 instead, but use Rec2020 as a target reference when you take measurements (this relates to chromapure) this is very important, as when LUT is sent to Lumagen to do the Tone Mapping it expects it in SDR2020 container (in light space software which I use now a lot as well, you can define what target gamut you are referencing to) the same should be in ChromaPure, but I could not remember where as I stopped using it 6 months ago.


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I think that is what I did (as far as the calibration in ChromaPure) I chose rec2020 as Reference Gamut in options and SDR2020 in the initial set up and in the Auto Cal module.
I have not turned on Tone mapping (might bother Jim again) as I am not too sure of what the steps are.

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post #2688 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 01:04 PM
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My SDR2020 calibration not as bright as the REC709 (which looks superb) I might have done something wrong with Chromapure. Looking at Jims slide show, he says
Select a SDR source (will select CMS0)
Set CMS0 Colorspace = SDR2020
I missed that as i was following the ChromaPure instructions, and left CMS0 =Rec709
Do you think that could be the problem.
Also I have not engaged the tone mapping yet, don't understand.
The JVC is reporting (with 4k disk Lumagen=SDR2020) Colorimetry= BT2020.
I don't know if the filter has been engaged and don't know how to tell, but I thought that if Lumagen was outputting SDR2020, the filter would not engage

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post #2689 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
I think that is what I did (as far as the calibration in ChromaPure) I chose rec2020 as Reference Gamut in options and SDR2020 in the initial set up and in the Auto Cal module.
I have not turned on Tone mapping (might bother Jim again) as I am not too sure of what the steps are.


I would choose sdr709 in Lumagen instead of Sdr2020. Correct don’t turn on Tone Mapping when you do a calibration. As I remember in Chroma pure with auroral, you need to set brightness and contrast, also in Lumagen adjust the black level with Reference test pattern Contrast 2. Then you calibrate grayscale most important are 80% IRE and 100% IRE but if you can remove errors on 30% IRE with a rule of thumb, then it’s even better. After you done with that, you then run auto cal on chromapure. When it’s finished go to hdr mapping and turn it on. There is a manual for ChromaPure andI think the process for HDR calibration should be described there as well


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post #2690 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
I would choose sdr709 in Lumagen instead of Sdr2020. Correct don’t turn on Tone Mapping when you do a calibration. As I remember in Chroma pure with auroral, you need to set brightness and contrast, also in Lumagen adjust the black level with Reference test pattern Contrast 2. Then you calibrate grayscale most important are 80% IRE and 100% IRE but if you can remove errors on 30% IRE with a rule of thumb, then it’s even better. After you done with that, you then run auto cal on chromapure. When it’s finished go to hdr mapping and turn it on. There is a manual for ChromaPure andI think the process for HDR calibration should be described there as well


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thanks, I had the brightness and contrast set when I had done the Rec 709 calibration on CMS0. I thought I would not have to change that. Other thann "turning tone mapping on", is there anything else with Tone Mapping that I need to know?

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post #2691 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurli View Post
Is the fallowing auto cal procedure correct?
1) Select CMS0 in Lumange Pro , Colorspace SDR2020.
2) Autocalibrate with 3D Autocal Software, SDR709 ,Gamma 2.4 .
3)Copy CMS0 to CMS1
4)When watch HDR source , enable CMS1 HDR Mapping, set Gamma to 3D LUT =SDR


Thanks
Before replying to your questions please input a 1080p source to the Pro, bluray disc or cable box.

1) In Output Setup under column heading "601/709" you will see CMS0. Change this to CMS1. Then go to Output CMS's CMS1 and select or confirm Colorspace=SDR2020.
2) In Chromapure Initial Setup select colorspace=YCbCr422-709 and Color Intensity to 100%. In Options set Gamut to Rec 709 and Gamma to 2.4.
In Auto-Calibration Setup set Gamma Target=2.4. Set Grayscale Mode=12 point and SDR2020. Uncheck Reset. Check Grayscale Calibration and Matrix Calibration 729 points. Check Filter Colors Outside Display Gamut. Click Next.
Now click Measure. After RGB pattern sequence set Intensity Filter intensity to 100% and click Filter followed by Apply. Proceed with Auto-Cal.
3) Don't copy anything. Go back to step 1 and where you previously changed CMS0 to CMS1 under the 601/709 column, change it back to CMS0.
4) Check your UHD player and be sure it is set to output HDR2020. No HDR to SDR conversion or Strip MetaData.
Play a UHD 4K bluray. The Pro will recognize it as HDR2020 and use CMS1 in the HDR2020 column you just calibrated while it was temporarily set in the 601/709 column.
Because you set CMS1 Colorspace to SDR2020 that is what the Pro will send to the projector. If you have a JVC projector it will not go to Gamma D because you sent it a SDR signal, not HDR.
Because the Pro recognized you supplied it with a 4K image it will automatically enable Intensity Mapping. There are two places where you can check and adjust Intensity Mapping---Output>CMS's>CMS1>HDR Mapping and Input>Options>HDR Setup.

Good luck.
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post #2692 of 5828 Old 02-22-2018, 11:25 PM
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I was away on vacation and ended up getting both the Flu and Bronchitis. Not completely better, but I am back to work. Thanks to all who have expressed wishes for my speedy-recovery.

===

Also, I really appreciate all the positive comments on the forum and by email on the image quality improvements using the Radiance Pro. We have worked hard on the Radiance Pro and your positive feedback makes the effort all the more worthwhile.

===

On the 21XX: We do not plan to build more, but have a good stock of the 2143 and a small stock of the 2144. We dropped pricing on the 2143 and 2144 to make them effectively have free upgrades to 4k output. Because of this we dropped the 2123 and 2124 from our price list. I expect we have four to six months of stock on the 2144, and maybe a year for the 2143, or perhaps more as it seems almost everyone is now ordering Pro's.

Note the 2XXX units cannot be upgraded to 4k sources, or HDCP 2.2, due to hardware limits of the chips used. We do give trade-in credit for them toward a Radiance Pro.

===

The 424X-C has identical electronics as the 424X 1U versions, and uses the same software. The FPGA will maintain the same temperature as in the 1U unit (based on temperature target setting), but the fan does need to run a little faster, and the smaller case will feel slightly warmer to the touch since there is less metal to disperse the heat. It is intended for smaller venues such as bedrooms, or for calibrators to carry to job sites. We don't expect to sell a lot of these but it kept coming up as a suggested product so we decided it made sense. Price is the same as the 424X 1U equivalent.

===

Several questions have come up on why there has been a longer time since a new release. Patrick has been very busy for the past month working on improving the Radiance Pro deinterlacing. We have known there were things to improve and Patrick has been addressing your feedback. Once released there should be a significant improvement for text (tickers and other scrolling text), film verses interlaced-video source (using cadence detection), and general artifact reduction.

This release of deinterlacing does not have a diagonal filter (we may or may not add one later). It also does not have full inverse-telecine to allow output of true film source received as 1080i or XXXXp60 at 24p (or 25p as appropriate).

We should have a release out next week with the improved deinterlacing.

===

When I tested a JVC 6XX it moved the Rec2020 color filter into place if it received the Rec 2020 flag, independent of SDR or HDR.

===

Choosing SDR 709 Pro output for HDR 2020 source can make sense. For projectors with a movable Rec 2020 filter you will have more light output with this setting, and if the projector has a Rec709 mode with a wide, reasonably linear, Gamut most HDR material will still look amazing - partly due to having more light output. As mentioned even when you set the Pro to output SDR709 for HDR source, you must still target Rec2020 primaries in the color software. Then the software will move the 3D LUT points to cover as much of the Rec 2020 Gamut as possible in the Rec709 wide Gamut mode.

===

One comment on quality with any output mode. I consider calibration like pulling on a string with rubber bands. Pull too hard and they break. What I mean by this analogy is that the less the 3D LUT points need to be moved the better the result should be.

One way to get points closer before Autocal that people are not thinking about is if you have an under saturated image to start you can use the Radiance Pro Color and Color-Offset controls to increase the color gain for all three primaries (Color), or the red primary (Color Red) or the Green Primary (Color Green). You can do the opposite if the image starts over saturated. Do not adjust Hue or Hue Offsets (unless you are trying to correct a color decoder error). You can check your results doing a "Pre-cal" run on as many points as possible, given time available, after your Color/Offset adjustments.

Same holds true for Gamma and grayscale. When using the HDR Intensity Mapping the Gamma target is a straight 2.4 Gamma, the closer you are to these before Autocal the better, especially near black.

Generally we are hearing that you should measure over 3000 points before generating the 3D used for HDR 2020 sources. Since there are 4913 points in the 17x17x17 3D LUT, it actually makes sense to measure 4913 points either at the control points, or perhaps even better if the software (as Lightspace does) supports random and/or targeted areas for measurement, that might be even better. Of course if time is constrained measuring as many as possible is the best approach verses measuring a few points and extrapolating.

After the 3D LUT you should check Gamma and grayscale and perhaps manually tune the 21 points, or run 1D LUT Autocal again (still run it before the 3D LUT). As I have mentioned, we plan a 257 point 3D LUT in front of the 3D LUT in the Pro for this final step, but it is a ways out still. So in the mean time run the 21 point 1D LUT Autocal again (plus perhaps some manual tuning) after the 3D LUT.
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New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
I was away on vacation and ended up getting both the Flu and Bronchitis. Not completely better, but I am back to work. Thanks to all who have expressed wishes for my speedy-recovery.



===



Also, I really appreciate all the positive comments on the forum and by email on the image quality improvements using the Radiance Pro. We have worked hard on the Radiance Pro and your positive feedback makes the effort all the more worthwhile.



===



On the 21XX: We do not plan to build more, but have a good stock of the 2143 and a small stock of the 2144. We dropped pricing on the 2143 and 2144 to make them effectively have free upgrades to 4k output. Because of this we dropped the 2123 and 2124 from our price list. I expect we have four to six months of stock on the 2144, and maybe a year for the 2143, or perhaps more as it seems almost everyone is now ordering Pro's.



Note the 2XXX units cannot be upgraded to 4k sources, or HDCP 2.2, due to hardware limits of the chips used. We do give trade-in credit for them toward a Radiance Pro.



===



The 424X-C has identical electronics as the 424X 1U versions, and uses the same software. The FPGA will maintain the same temperature as in the 1U unit (based on temperature target setting), but the fan does need to run a little faster, and the smaller case will feel slightly warmer to the touch since there is less metal to disperse the heat. It is intended for smaller venues such as bedrooms, or for calibrators to carry to job sites. We don't expect to sell a lot of these but it kept coming up as a suggested product so we decided it made sense. Price is the same as the 424X 1U equivalent.



===



Several questions have come up on why there has been a longer time since a new release. Patrick has been very busy for the past month working on improving the Radiance Pro deinterlacing. We have known there were things to improve and Patrick has been addressing your feedback. Once released there should be a significant improvement for text (tickers and other scrolling text), film verses interlaced-video source (using cadence detection), and general artifact reduction.



This release of deinterlacing does not have a diagonal filter (we may or may not add one later). It also does not have full inverse-telecine to allow output of true film source received as 1080i or XXXXp60 at 24p (or 25p as appropriate).



We should have a release out next week with the improved deinterlacing.



===



When I tested a JVC 6XX it moved the Rec2020 color filter into place if it received the Rec 2020 flag, independent of SDR or HDR.



===



Choosing SDR 709 Pro output for HDR 2020 source can make sense. For projectors with a movable Rec 2020 filter you will have more light output with this setting, and if the projector has a Rec709 mode with a wide, reasonably linear, Gamut most HDR material will still look amazing - partly due to having more light output. As mentioned even when you set the Pro to output SDR709 for HDR source, you must still target Rec2020 primaries in the color software. Then the software will move the 3D LUT points to cover as much of the Rec 2020 Gamut as possible in the Rec709 wide Gamut mode.



===



One comment on quality with any output mode. I consider calibration like pulling on a string with rubber bands. Pull too hard and they break. What I mean by this analogy is that the less the 3D LUT points need to be moved the better the result should be.



One way to get points closer before Autocal that people are not thinking about is if you have an under saturated image to start you can use the Radiance Pro Color and Color-Offset controls to increase the color gain for all three primaries (Color), or the red primary (Color Red) or the Green Primary (Color Green). You can do the opposite if the image starts over saturated. Do not adjust Hue or Hue Offsets (unless you are trying to correct a color decoder error). You can check your results doing a "Pre-cal" run on as many points as possible, given time available, after your Color/Offset adjustments.



Same holds true for Gamma and grayscale. When using the HDR Intensity Mapping the Gamma target is a straight 2.4 Gamma, the closer you are to these before Autocal the better, especially near black.



Generally we are hearing that you should measure over 3000 points before generating the 3D used for HDR 2020 sources. Since there are 4913 points in the 17x17x17 3D LUT, it actually makes sense to measure 4913 points either at the control points, or perhaps even better if the software (as Lightspace does) supports random and/or targeted areas for measurement, that might be even better. Of course if time is constrained measuring as many as possible is the best approach verses measuring a few points and extrapolating.



After the 3D LUT you should check Gamma and grayscale and perhaps manually tune the 21 points, or run 1D LUT Autocal again (still run it before the 3D LUT). As I have mentioned, we plan a 257 point 3D LUT in front of the 3D LUT in the Pro for this final step, but it is a ways out still. So in the mean time run the 21 point 1D LUT Autocal again (plus perhaps some manual tuning) after the 3D LUT.


Get better Jim and speedy recovery, thank you again for your detailed responses. I will release a step by step documentation for those who has LightSpace and Lumagen in regards how to calibrate, which hopefully will help people to avoid confusion at initial steps and the workflow processes itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Video: Synology 416Play NAS 24TB -> OPPO UDP-203 / Zidoo X9S / Nvidia Shield 4K -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 -> SONY VPL-VW760ES -> Elite Screen 135'' 16:9 1.1 Max White;
Audio: DENON X3500H -> Dali Zensor 7.1 Dolby Atmos (7, 1, E12F, Vokal, Dolby Alteco C1)
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Jim, you stated
When I tested a JVC 6XX it moved the Rec2020 color filter into place if it received the Rec 2020 flag, independent of SDR or HDR.

Choosing SDR 709 Pro output for HDR 2020 source can make sense. For projectors with a movable Rec 2020 filter you will have more light output with this setting, and if the projector has a Rec709 mode with a wide, reasonably linear, Gamut most HDR material will still look amazing - partly due to having more light output. As mentioned even when you set the Pro to output SDR709 for HDR source, you must still target Rec2020 primaries in the color software. Then the software will move the 3D LUT points to cover as much of the Rec 2020 Gamut as possible in the Rec709 wide Gamut mode.


1. When you say "you must still target Rec2020 primaries in the color software", does that mean in the calibration software?
2. Glad you confirmed that the JVC 6xx is moving the filter in place even with SDR2020 output, my SDR2020 was dimmer than the same scenes in REC709 ( used mad max disks to look) I could not tell if the filter was in place or not
3. So I should change my output of CMS1 to Rec709 after i do a SDR2020 calibration on CMS1... is that correct?
thanks as always
4. Is there a Strip Meta data that would allow the output to be SDR2020 and prevent the filter from engaging? Perhaps in the disk player or in Lumagen.

Dan

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The filter is bound to the chosen colour profile. So everytime you select "Reference" or "BT.2020" as colour profile the filter gets engaged. You can only avoid this if you create a custom colour profile with JVC Autocal.

Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
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post #2696 of 5828 Old 02-23-2018, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
@D_B_0673
The filter is bound to the chosen colour profile. So everytime you select "Reference" or "BT.2020" as colour profile the filter gets engaged. You can only avoid this if you create a custom colour profile with JVC Autocal.
thanks,
that is another level of complexity that I don't understand and had hoped to avoid.

Dan
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post #2697 of 5828 Old 02-23-2018, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibia View Post
Before replying to your questions please input a 1080p source to the Pro, bluray disc or cable box.

1) In Output Setup under column heading "601/709" you will see CMS0. Change this to CMS1. Then go to Output CMS's CMS1 and select or confirm Colorspace=SDR2020.
2) In Chromapure Initial Setup select colorspace=YCbCr422-709 and Color Intensity to 100%. In Options set Gamut to Rec 709 and Gamma to 2.4.
In Auto-Calibration Setup set Gamma Target=2.4. Set Grayscale Mode=12 point and SDR2020. Uncheck Reset. Check Grayscale Calibration and Matrix Calibration 729 points. Check Filter Colors Outside Display Gamut. Click Next.
Now click Measure. After RGB pattern sequence set Intensity Filter intensity to 100% and click Filter followed by Apply. Proceed with Auto-Cal.
3) Don't copy anything. Go back to step 1 and where you previously changed CMS0 to CMS1 under the 601/709 column, change it back to CMS0.
4) Check your UHD player and be sure it is set to output HDR2020. No HDR to SDR conversion or Strip MetaData.
Play a UHD 4K bluray. The Pro will recognize it as HDR2020 and use CMS1 in the HDR2020 column you just calibrated while it was temporarily set in the 601/709 column.
Because you set CMS1 Colorspace to SDR2020 that is what the Pro will send to the projector. If you have a JVC projector it will not go to Gamma D because you sent it a SDR signal, not HDR.
Because the Pro recognized you supplied it with a 4K image it will automatically enable Intensity Mapping. There are two places where you can check and adjust Intensity Mapping---Output>CMS's>CMS1>HDR Mapping and Input>Options>HDR Setup.

Good luck.
Could you clarify please
1. Once I change CMS0 to CMS1 and perform the calibration, do the calibration settings populate to all CMS1, (the original CMS1 that was set as 4k in and SDR2020 out)
2. More importantly, When I change it back to CMS0 is the REC709 calibration that I had done on CMS0 still there or do I need to recalibrate it under REC709
3. Unfortunately as Jim mentioned , it seems that although the JVC will not revert to Gamma D, it does engage the filter that cuts brightness.

Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post
thanks,
that is another level of complexity that I don't understand and had hoped to avoid.
You can find such a profile in the first post of the JVC Autocalibration thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...500-rs600.html

By using "REC-2020NF" your DCI-P3 gamut coverage will drop from about 98% to about 88% and you will gain ~10% brightness.

Edit:
If you create a custom colour profile or use one of the above you should make sure to select the one suitable for your software. I don't know about Chromapure. But for LightSpace you should use DCI-P3 and not BT.2020.
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Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
VP/Calibration: Lumagen Radiance Pro, LightSpace CMS, x-rite i1 Pro 2, x-rite i1 Display 3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
@D_B_0673
The filter is bound to the chosen colour profile. So everytime you select "Reference" or "BT.2020" as colour profile the filter gets engaged. You can only avoid this if you create a custom colour profile with JVC Autocal.
I haven't read through the JVC Autocal thread yet. I assume the information for doing this is located there?

edit: Just read your post above...thanks!
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post #2700 of 5828 Old 02-23-2018, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
You can find such a profile in the first post of the JVC Autocalibration thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...500-rs600.html

By using "REC-2020NF" your DCI-P3 gamut coverage will drop from about 98% to about 88% and you will gain ~10% brightness.
I see it, just don't know how to get it into the JVC
I do appreciate your help and I have tried reading the Auto cal thread in the past, it makes my head spin, which is why I purchased ChromaPure Auto cal.
I will keep this in mind and see if I can figure it out

Dan
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