New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3142Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2851 of 4887 Old 03-22-2018, 05:20 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
See my comments in bold print below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
[EDIT] After I posted this I saw Steve beat me to the punch. I am leaving the post here, but
it duplicates some of what Steve said.

====

I was talking with Steve Bruzonsky earlier today and a couple of things came up that I would like to share as I believe they affect other VW5000ES owners.

1) If you have a Sony VW5000ES, do not use the newer version of the Radiance Pro 18 GHz output microcode. The original 18 GHz output microcode works better for the VW5000ES. I have a couple people who have mentioned this now.

ABSOLUTELY. Sometimes I could get the newer version to work but then I had BIG problems, and I hit Menu and the four number codes and nothing would happen, or I hit a different input and nothing would happen. Now I understand that the new 18 GHz version was big time "interrupted" and you explain below and was not processing. I couldn't even change back to the old 18 GHz version. This was before I talked with you. What I did was reload the Ken Whitcomb Radiance Pro config from December, which had the old 18 GHz version, then I loaded my latest saved configuration which when I checked still had the old 18 GHz version, and from thereon video switching, etc works smooth as silk!

2) If you have the VW5000ES and updated to the new 18 GHz output microcode and want to go back to the original microcode, but the command to do so (MENU 0850) is not responding, temporarily unplug the output from the Pro going to the VW5000ES (turning the VW5000ES off my be enough), and then enter the command (with the Pro on, no buttons other then MENU 0850 need be pressed). I believe the issue with this is the Pro with the new output microcode loaded is getting so many interrupts from the interface to the VW5000ES that it is overwhelmed and cannot respond to commands. Pulling the HDMI cable eliminates the interrupts.

YES NOW I KNOW I COULD HAVE DONE THIS INSTEAD OF WHAT I DID ABOVE!

3) Steve mentioned a menu entry in the Sony VW5000ES that concerns using an external video processor. I think he said this is called "Lag Reduction." Sony mentions this should be enabled if you are using an external video processor (such as the Radiance Pro). This seems to eliminate internal processing such as "frame interpolation" (a good thing in my opinion), and reduce the latency in the projector.

I will leave it for Steve to comment if he wants to, but I believe he thinks the image looks better when "Lag Reduction" was enabled.
Its "Input Lag Reduction". All I can say is I was watching the latest episode of "Strike Back", and the gal coming out of the pool in particular, her bod seems a bit more real coming out of my screen. That was enough for me! More seriously, with this feature "On", I watched some DireCTV programs and my impression is they looked as good or better than when I had this feature "Off" and used the Reality Creation settings a few folks had recommended in this thread per their discussion with Sony engineers. Ken Whitcomb had set Reality Creation to "Off" when he calibrated me
and I guess this is why.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2852 of 4887 Old 03-23-2018, 02:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 231
I just joined the club today. I got a 4240 with the 18Gbps input and output upgrade from Gordon Fraser. I have a fairly simple set up with a 1080i PVR and a Sony X800 UHD player (which gives me 4k Netflix in addition to UHD discs), being fed to a JVC X7500.

I just installed the 030418 update and have done some basic setting up so that I'm using the same inputs and memories as with my 2041 previously (so my Harmony activities all work correctly). So far so good as this is my 4th Lumagen VP, so most of the menus seemed pretty familiar; it's the HDR/rec2020 ones that I will be scratching my head over in the near future.

I have a HD Fury Integral which can be used as a splitter (so I can use the Lumagen with my TV as well). I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but I'm hoping it'll work as the 18Gbps option means I don't have a second HDMI video output as I had with my 2041. I figure this is better than sending the output of the 4240 through my Arcam AVR (which has 2 HDMI outputs) incase of any video degradation in the AVR.

The video delay function is nice addition too as my X7500 needs more audio delay than my TV does, so this will help to balance it up using different memories.

Of course having got it installed and set up, my OH is now watching a low bitrate SD channel on our 1080p TV.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #2853 of 4887 Old 03-23-2018, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2506 Post(s)
Liked: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
See my comments in bold print below:



Its "Input Lag Reduction". All I can say is I was watching the latest episode of "Strike Back", and the gal coming out of the pool in particular, her bod seems a bit more real coming out of my screen. That was enough for me! More seriously, with this feature "On", I watched some DireCTV programs and my impression is they looked as good or better than when I had this feature "Off" and used the Reality Creation settings a few folks had recommended in this thread per their discussion with Sony engineers. Ken Whitcomb had set Reality Creation to "Off" when he calibrated me
and I guess this is why.
Reality Creation needs to be 20/20 minimum I believe, or you are softening the image. But ultimately, its what you prefer...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
thrang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2854 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 09:03 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Reality Creation needs to be 20/20 minimum I believe, or you are softening the image. But ultimately, its what you prefer...
What you believe and what I see is something else entirely. I've been watching some DirecTV stuff and the picture is easily better than ever. Black level, "3D"ness of the 2D picture, lack or less grain. Watching is indisputable. I lived not using this feature for some time and using Reality Creation as someone here said per Sony engineers, and now living with this feature and no Reality Creation, and I am very satisfied using "Input Lag Reduction" with no Reality Creation. Note that I have set the Radiance Pro "Menu 0872" to output only 4k60 & 4k24!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #2855 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 09:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2506 Post(s)
Liked: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
What you believe and what I see is something else entirely. I've been watching some DirecTV stuff and the picture is easily better than ever. Black level, "3D"ness of the 2D picture, lack or less grain. Watching is indisputable. I lived not using this feature for some time and using Reality Creation as someone here said per Sony engineers, and now living with this feature and no Reality Creation, and I am very satisfied using "Input Lag Reduction" with no Reality Creation. Note that I have set the Radiance Pro "Menu 0872" to output only 4k60 & 4k24!
Well the belief is in how Reality Creation was designed...less than 20 will soften the image, which you may prefer - and thats perfectly fine as a personal preference. But I think others should know this distinction between the choices.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
thrang is offline  
post #2856 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 11:15 AM
jrp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Liked: 938
Kelvin1965S and everyone with a Harmony remote:

The Harmony database for the Lumagen remote does not have the "Input" button, last I checked.

The correct way to select an input using a programmable remote, or control system is "Input #" but there is a good way to work around the Harmony not having the "Input" button.

The input can be selected by just pressing the input number button if there is no Radiance OSD on the screen. So what I do is send a "CLR" and then the input number. The CLR removes the OSD so the input number will select the input.

This is most important for the power up sequences. I had the issue of the input not being selected because the Power-on OSD was still displayed when I wanted to select the active source. The CLR command eliminates this issue.

====

Power on order can matter. I turn the Radiance Pro on first (you may have to use a different order depending on your equipment). Since many HDR sources seem to not respond to the Hotplug toggle to reread EDID, if HDR is not reported when they turn on or at least start the movie, they will never go into HDR mode. Manually enabling HDR and Rec2020 in the Pro's EDID using the Global.Video.SrcFormat menu, and turning the Pro on first overcomes this shortcoming in the players.

I also add about a 2 second delay at some point in the start up sequence after the Pro is turned on and before selecting the input.

If you have one source that is the most common selection at power on, program the Pro to automatically select that source on power on (Other.On/Off menu).
Kelvin1965S likes this.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen
jrp is offline  
post #2857 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 11:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 231
Thanks Jim, I'll have a check of my activities as i can't remember how I did it before, but I haven't changed them from my 2041 and they seem to work OK selecting either my PVR (input #1 ) or my UHD player (input #2 ). I might have used the learning function at some point to 'teach' the Harmony the code for input. However, I'm sometimes getting a pink tinged picture when I start my PVR activity from everything being off since I got the 4240, so perhaps I need to follow your instructions and re-write my activities.

...This is why I knew I'd end up with a Pro at some point as the support is great.
bobof likes this.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #2858 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 04:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Well the belief is in how Reality Creation was designed...less than 20 will soften the image, which you may prefer - and thats perfectly fine as a personal preference. But I think others should know this distinction between the choices.
Please explain your basis for this info and the extent to which you or anyone else had difficulty with language assuming this info was obtained from Sony engineers. I am skeptical of such info from secondhard sources (I can't help it - I'm an attorney too many years)

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #2859 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 04:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2506 Post(s)
Liked: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Please explain your basis for this info and the extent to which you or anyone else had difficulty with language assuming this info was obtained from Sony engineers. I am skeptical of such info from secondhard sources (I can't help it - I'm an attorney too many years)
Oh, you were an attorney...that explains it...

Direct conversation with Sony engineering over a year ago.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
thrang is offline  
post #2860 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 09:42 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Oh, you were an attorney...that explains it...

Direct conversation with Sony engineering over a year ago.
OK put me down and then make it seem like its a joke. That's bullying! (How do you like it?)

Just watched the 4k disc of "Wonder". Great movie. Picture quality phenomenal at least in my setup. The DirecTV and 4k discs i've watched recently
have me believing my current settings are the very best picture quality I've had.

Thrang, you've mentioned in this thread that you at times had a hard time understanding the Sony engineer due to language. Or did you ask the right questions? This is not to malign you, just to point out that what you say isn't gospel. It would be best if you had an email from the engineer so we could see that the actual advise was. I can't tell you how many times I've had folks say someone said one thing but it turned out they were at least somewhat off, even if well meaning as you are.

And I also will gladly subscribe to the HDR tonemapping that Ken Whitcomb did for me on my video setup, as my picture looks absolutely stunning with excellent 4k HDR discs and of course really nice but not as stunning with lesser quality source video.

Folks can try the settings I use and decide for themselves how they work! Let there be a caveat on my own eyes and what I see and your own hearsay and questioning of the Sony engineer and what he told you! (I can't wait for your rebuttal as I will let you get in the last words so you can feel fulfilled!)

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #2861 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 10:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,498
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
Liked: 1113
New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky;
OK put me down and then make it seem like its a joke. That's bullying! (How do you like it?)



Just watched the 4k disc of "Wonder". Great movie. Picture quality phenomenal at least in my setup. The DirecTV and 4k discs i've watched recently

have me believing my current settings are the very best picture quality I've had.



Thrang, you've mentioned in this thread that you at times had a hard time understanding the Sony engineer due to language. Or did you ask the right questions? This is not to malign you, just to point out that what you say isn't gospel. It would be best if you had an email from the engineer so we could see that the actual advise was. I can't tell you how many times I've had folks say someone said one thing but it turned out they were at least somewhat off, even if well meaning as you are.



And I also will gladly subscribe to the HDR tonemapping that Ken Whitcomb did for me on my video setup, as my picture looks absolutely stunning with excellent 4k HDR discs and of course really nice but not as stunning with lesser quality source video.



Folks can try the settings I use and decide for themselves how they work! Let there be a caveat on my own eyes and what I see and your own hearsay and questioning of the Sony engineer and what he told you! (I can't wait for your rebuttal as I will let you get in the last words so you can feel fulfilled!)


Steve,

This issue about Reality Creation and even the Sharpness control on the 5000 has been discussed at length. This has been well known info for over two years now.

I’m pretty sure both Rob Hahn and Art told you the same thing not to long ago, after you said you had turned RC off. After comments from them, I thought you had re-engaged those features and had agreed with those finding.

W. Mayer got the very first 5000ES, Serial #1 . His unit was hand delivered to his house by some of the top Sony engineers, who he has a personal friendship with. Mayer was the first to report these findings to the engineers and to the forum. Since then, this has been confirmed by Sony engineers to multiple 5000 owners directly.

I’m not sure why you now find that same info Thrang is now providing so offensive.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by ccool96; 03-24-2018 at 11:05 PM.
ccool96 is offline  
post #2862 of 4887 Old 03-24-2018, 11:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Steve,

This issue about Reality Creation and even the Sharpness control on the 5000 has been discussed at length. This has been well known info for over two years now.

I’m pretty sure both Rob Hahn and Art told you the same thing not to long ago, after you said you had turned RC off. After comments from them, I thought you had re-engaged those features and had agreed with those finding.

W. Mayer got the very first 5000ES, Serial #1 . His unit was hand delivered to his house by some of the top Sony engineers, who he has a personal friendship with. Mayer was the first to report these findings to the engineers and to the forum. Since then, this has been confirmed by Sony engineers to multiple 5000 owners directly.

I’m not sure why you now find that same info Thrang is now providing so offensive.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I found Thrang's joke offensive! Not the discussion.

I had thought using Reality Creation was perhaps sharper. Watched that way for sometime. But my more recent tweaking and watching makes me very happy having Reality Creation off w input lag reduction on w the Radiance Pro. No question for me!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #2863 of 4887 Old 03-25-2018, 01:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I found Thrang's joke offensive! Not the discussion.

I had thought using Reality Creation was perhaps sharper. Watched that way for sometime. But my more recent tweaking and watching makes me very happy having Reality Creation off w input lag reduction on w the Radiance Pro. No question for me!
Does the same apply for the 885ES?
Eventidal is offline  
post #2864 of 4887 Old 03-25-2018, 04:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2506 Post(s)
Liked: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
OK put me down and then make it seem like its a joke. That's bullying! (How do you like it?)

Just watched the 4k disc of "Wonder". Great movie. Picture quality phenomenal at least in my setup. The DirecTV and 4k discs i've watched recently
have me believing my current settings are the very best picture quality I've had.

Thrang, you've mentioned in this thread that you at times had a hard time understanding the Sony engineer due to language. Or did you ask the right questions? This is not to malign you, just to point out that what you say isn't gospel. It would be best if you had an email from the engineer so we could see that the actual advise was. I can't tell you how many times I've had folks say someone said one thing but it turned out they were at least somewhat off, even if well meaning as you are.

And I also will gladly subscribe to the HDR tonemapping that Ken Whitcomb did for me on my video setup, as my picture looks absolutely stunning with excellent 4k HDR discs and of course really nice but not as stunning with lesser quality source video.

Folks can try the settings I use and decide for themselves how they work! Let there be a caveat on my own eyes and what I see and your own hearsay and questioning of the Sony engineer and what he told you! (I can't wait for your rebuttal as I will let you get in the last words so you can feel fulfilled!)
No, there was no difficulty understanding what I was being told.

Case adjourned?

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system

Last edited by thrang; 03-25-2018 at 04:58 AM.
thrang is offline  
post #2865 of 4887 Old 03-25-2018, 03:12 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
No, there was no difficulty understanding what I was being told.

Case adjourned?
You mentioned earlier that you talked to a Sony engineer and had some difficulty understanding him due to language. I guess I misunderstood you?

Also, did you inquire specifically of the engineer about using Reality Creation in combo with a Radiance Pro and also setting the input lag reduction to on? That could make a difference as opposed to most folks who do not use an external video processor/scaler with the Sony projectors.

Too bad we can't get the Sony engineers to come on the forum and answer questions, like in the early days of AVS Forum when I moderated the AVS Special Guests Forum.

Frankly, when I decided to try the input lag reduction feature again, I have been quite surprised. I was expecting not to see an overall improvement and that it was just another tweak experiment going nowhere. But at least in my system with my setup and whatever eyesight I have left I clearly prefer the picture this way!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #2866 of 4887 Old 03-25-2018, 04:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wjchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Well the belief is in how Reality Creation was designed...less than 20 will soften the image, which you may prefer - and thats perfectly fine as a personal preference. But I think others should know this distinction between the choices.
Just got my 5000ES recently so I haven't had a chance to experiment extensively. Based on my experience with my Z9D, I believe RC on with resolution <20 softens the image but RC off (really off and not resolution 0) does not.

--wilson
wjchan is online now  
post #2867 of 4887 Old 03-26-2018, 09:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 5,443
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1802 Post(s)
Liked: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Kelvin1965S and everyone with a Harmony remote:

The Harmony database for the Lumagen remote does not have the "Input" button, last I checked.

The correct way to select an input using a programmable remote, or control system is "Input #" but there is a good way to work around the Harmony not having the "Input" button.

The input can be selected by just pressing the input number button if there is no Radiance OSD on the screen. So what I do is send a "CLR" and then the input number. The CLR removes the OSD so the input number will select the input.

This is most important for the power up sequences. I had the issue of the input not being selected because the Power-on OSD was still displayed when I wanted to select the active source. The CLR command eliminates this issue.

====

Power on order can matter. I turn the Radiance Pro on first (you may have to use a different order depending on your equipment). Since many HDR sources seem to not respond to the Hotplug toggle to reread EDID, if HDR is not reported when they turn on or at least start the movie, they will never go into HDR mode. Manually enabling HDR and Rec2020 in the Pro's EDID using the Global.Video.SrcFormat menu, and turning the Pro on first overcomes this shortcoming in the players.

I also add about a 2 second delay at some point in the start up sequence after the Pro is turned on and before selecting the input.

If you have one source that is the most common selection at power on, program the Pro to automatically select that source on power on (Other.On/Off menu).

Hey Jim and Kelvin--I think the input option is in the Logitech database. I currently have (and have had for quite some time) "Input" mapped to the "record" button (red circle) on my Harmony Elite remote, so once I select the RadiancePro in Devices, I enter the number menu on the remote screen, hit the record button, then hit a number on the screen to get to where I want to go. I use this primarily to view my AVP's video output (I run it through Lumagen Input 4) so I can make tweaks (i.e. bass management settings in audio processor, etc.) onscreen and exit to get back to what I was doing.


But I programmed it about a year ago....maybe I did need to learn the command. It's all so hazy...
Kelvin1965S likes this.
BrolicBeast is offline  
post #2868 of 4887 Old 03-26-2018, 09:49 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,752
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan View Post
Just got my 5000ES recently so I haven't had a chance to experiment extensively. Based on my experience with my Z9D, I believe RC on with resolution <20 softens the image but RC off (really off and not resolution 0) does not.

--wilson
Exactly. I have my Radiance Pro with Sony 5000ES, the latter set with Reality Creation off and Input Lag Reduction On. Motion Flow also is off. I have been playing with these settings for months, before and after Ken Whitcomb calibrated, and the more I watch, the happier I am no longer monkeying with any settings and enjoying my video setup totally! No longer do I have complaints as I watch some DirecTV programming trying to get the picture better - in every way its the best its ever been. And I've demod a number of 4k discs and unless I am imaging everything looks even better than before. I am a totally happy camper.

I didn't say above I've been an attorney (since 1978) to brag. Its just the way I think and analyze. So someone else talked to Sony engineers and paraphrased what they said. What if all of the right questions and scenarios were not asked? What if there was any misunderstanding? As an attorney I have seen this arise all too frequently. And as an avowed tweaker I like to check for myself.

Keep in mind what I see in my setup could be different than yours. My room is dark with flat black paint up front and flat dark grey in other places. Black carpet. Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide Snomatte (flat, no gain). Throw distance 19.5' (1' from very front of throw range at 18.5'). So maybe with a larger screen and/or greater throw distance and/or a gain screen what one sees may vary? But I know what I see!

Bottom line is trying the above projector settings to off and setting input lag reduction to on is something Sony 5000ES owners should at least try and see for themselves whether or not this works for them! Trying doesn't hurt does it?

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!

Last edited by Steve Bruzonsky; 03-26-2018 at 11:53 PM.
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
post #2869 of 4887 Old 03-28-2018, 06:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 231
Is there a post/guide anywhere that explains what the functions that are available using the left arrow key while processing HDR signals? The items are 'Shape', 'Trans' in particular that I'm unsure about what they are for and what I should be looking for while adjusting them.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #2870 of 4887 Old 03-28-2018, 06:34 AM
Hello, World!
 
Mark_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: England
Posts: 2,419
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
Is there a post/guide anywhere that explains what the functions that are available using the left arrow key while processing HDR signals? The items are 'Shape', 'Trans' in particular that I'm unsure about what they are for and what I should be looking for while adjusting them.
The manual covers it, as do many of the posts in the thread...
Kelvin1965S likes this.

My cinema: The Cave!
My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, JVC Z1, Lumagen Pro, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500
Mark_H is offline  
post #2871 of 4887 Old 03-28-2018, 06:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 231
I've looked at the manual, but to be honest I'm still struggling with those two functions.

I'll have a search through this thread later as I skimmed from page 50 upto date last week before I bought it.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #2872 of 4887 Old 03-29-2018, 03:28 AM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2335 Post(s)
Liked: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I've looked at the manual, but to be honest I'm still struggling with those two functions.

I'll have a search through this thread later as I skimmed from page 50 upto date last week before I bought it.
I think there is some coverage of it in the webinar handouts here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vid...l#post55266334

Around page 25
Kelvin1965S likes this.
bobof is offline  
post #2873 of 4887 Old 03-29-2018, 10:42 PM
Member
 
rachmat-d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Can the radiance pro pass through Apple TV 4K Dolby vision ?
rachmat-d is online now  
post #2874 of 4887 Old 03-30-2018, 04:49 PM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2335 Post(s)
Liked: 1485
Related question to the Dolby Vision question.
I'm just getting my 4242 set up so I can see how it behaves.

I have an AppleTV 4k plugged into an 18G input. Lumagen 4242 is doing intensity mapping, output REC709, I have loaded an SDR2020->SDR709 LUT (just a pure conversion LUT generated with LS for now) into the CMS. I have an HDFURY Vertex connected to the Lumagen output to downscale the 4K to 1080 (just for testing).

What I see though which I wasn't expecting:
1) Dolby Vision is enabled in the AppleTV it seems (or at least Netflix thinks so). Does that mean it thinks the Lumagen is DV capable for some reason? Is this due to EDID passthrough or something else?
2) I noticed a few times in scenes from Iron Fist (which claims DV) that the whole scene would raise or fall in luminance in a single step change.

Latest SW version.

Is the above expected?
bobof is offline  
post #2875 of 4887 Old 03-30-2018, 05:53 PM
Senior Member
 
jamesmil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Related question to the Dolby Vision question.

I'm just getting my 4242 set up so I can see how it behaves.



I have an AppleTV 4k plugged into an 18G input. Lumagen 4242 is doing intensity mapping, output REC709, I have loaded an SDR2020->SDR709 LUT (just a pure conversion LUT generated with LS for now) into the CMS. I have an HDFURY Vertex connected to the Lumagen output to downscale the 4K to 1080 (just for testing).



What I see though which I wasn't expecting:

1) Dolby Vision is enabled in the AppleTV it seems (or at least Netflix thinks so). Does that mean it thinks the Lumagen is DV capable for some reason? Is this due to EDID passthrough or something else?

2) I noticed a few times in scenes from Iron Fist (which claims DV) that the whole scene would raise or fall in luminance in a single step change.



Latest SW version.



Is the above expected?


The Netflix client on Apple TV doesn’t differentiate between HDR and Dolby Vision in the UI - It will say Dolby Vision even if the ATV is outputting HDR.

The way to tell what output types are supported is to see what video modes are offered in the Apple TV settings.

But Dolby doesn’t support external video processors for DolbyVision today, so the Radiance can’t process it or pass it through.
jamesmil is online now  
post #2876 of 4887 Old 03-30-2018, 10:26 PM
Senior Member
 
alex_t's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: France
Posts: 421
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Dear.

I'm going to share my app (for windows PC) and I'm looking for testers. If you are interested for testing the app send me a private message I will explain you how to download it.

This app allows interacting a Lumagen Radiance (all model) through its RS232 port (DB9 plug or USB plug). Currently with the app you can:
- get many setup info
- set some parameters up
- drive test patterns
- interact Lighspace CMS
- set up the 21p parametric gamma
- import/export parametric gamma through XML file
- look up in menu and sub-menu with your keyboard and/or your mouse

Once I'm sure all of this works fine, I will add many other things (first one will be import/export 3DLUT through XML file)

Tested on windows 7 64b and windows 10 64b.

My intention is to share the app for free but for protecting a little bit my work, the app needs a license file. There is an user manual which explains how to proceed.

Thanks

Alexandre
KarlKlammer and Alyaji like this.
alex_t is online now  
post #2877 of 4887 Old 03-31-2018, 01:33 AM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2335 Post(s)
Liked: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesmil View Post
The Netflix client on Apple TV doesn’t differentiate between HDR and Dolby Vision in the UI - It will say Dolby Vision even if the ATV is outputting HDR.

The way to tell what output types are supported is to see what video modes are offered in the Apple TV settings.

But Dolby doesn’t support external video processors for DolbyVision today, so the Radiance can’t process it or pass it through.
Thanks, will check.
This just leaves the strange luminance step changes seen during Iron Fist (the only HDR title I've tried so far via appleTV). Basically you will see the whole scene jump up or down in luminance. I will try disabling intensity mapping. Also have another HDR capable Netflix player - I can see if that behaves the same.

Anyone else seen this?

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
bobof is offline  
post #2878 of 4887 Old 03-31-2018, 01:36 AM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2335 Post(s)
Liked: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_t View Post
Dear.

I'm going to share my app (for windows PC) and I'm looking for testers. If you are interested for testing the app send me a private message I will explain you how to download it.

This app allows interacting a Lumagen Radiance (all model) through its RS232 port (DB9 plug or USB plug). Currently with the app you can:
- get many setup info
- set some parameters up
- drive test patterns
- interact Lighspace CMS
- set up the 21p parametric gamma
- import/export parametric gamma through XML file
- look up in menu and sub-menu with your keyboard and/or your mouse

Once I'm sure all of this works fine, I will add many other things (first one will be import/export 3DLUT through XML file)

Tested on windows 7 64b and windows 10 64b.

My intention is to share the app for free but for protecting a little bit my work, the app needs a license file. There is an user manual which explains how to proceed.

Thanks

Alexandre
Neat. If you can use some standard format for LUT import / export this would leave the door open for people to use Argyllcms / DisplayCAL for 3D LUT creation, which I am sure would be very welcome.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
bobof is offline  
post #2879 of 4887 Old 03-31-2018, 03:08 AM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2335 Post(s)
Liked: 1485
Having tested AppleTV 4k Netflix this luminance jump seems fairly repeatable in certain scenes.

Eg: Iron Fist Episode 3 13mins25s onwards as she walks out of the room there is a huge jump in the scene luminance with Intensity Mapping on. With intensity mapping off you don't seem to see this.

I have the display nits set to 200.

I also have a Sony UBP-X800 - the same content on this player doesn't behave in this way. The AppleTV is outputting 422, the Sony 444 (if it matters).

Can anyone else see the same behaviour?

Last edited by bobof; 03-31-2018 at 03:12 AM.
bobof is offline  
post #2880 of 4887 Old 03-31-2018, 03:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 231
Watched my first UHD film via my 4240 last night, with only the basic IM settings as recommended by Gordon Fraser and information from the training manual. I'm waiting on getting my Chromapure V3 upgrade so I can run a full calibration later, but this still looked very promising. I watched Sully and had my JVC X7500 set to 2.4 gamma with only a 'base' calibration in the JVC (ie ready for an autocal).

It is so much better than using the built in tone mapping function in my Sony X800: No obvious black crush, the image seemed subjectively bright enough (yet to measure of course) and I'm not using high lamp at this stage. Feeding the X7500 with 4k24 from a good source looked really sharp and of course I don't need (or have access to) any extra sharpening options when inputting 4k to the 4240, so it isn't an artificial sharpening effect. The image seemed really clean as well, which is great as noise can sometimes be a problem on the JVC.

I'm trying to use an old HD Fury Integral to split the signal out of the 4240 as I only have one HDMI output with the 18Gbs option fitted. The Fury (even after an update) was intermittent regarding sending audio to my Arcam AVR and needed me to keep flicking a switch to bring it back if I paused or changed source. As this isn't practical, I used the audio HDMI output from the 4240 instead.

The 4240 HDMI audio output worked well, but I did notice that the Arcam wasn't displaying 'Atmos' on it's front panel: I was getting Atmos sound as it displayed 'Atmos' when I pressed the 'mode' button on the AVR, but it would change back to display '--' after a few seconds. It also behaved in a similar way with 2.0 PCM audio from a PVR. Not sure if this is an Arcam glitch or something related to the settings or data sent from the Lumagen? It's not critical as it's only a display function (I have confirmed I get Atmos sound by using a test disc), but would be nice to get to the bottom of it.

I can't wait to be able to run a full calibration with the 4240/Chromapure 3 as I know how much better it looked when I calibrated my 2041/Chromapure 2 for HD/rec709.
bobof likes this.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615
Kelvin1965S is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Video Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off