HDFury Vertex - Owners thread - Page 114 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3391 of 4560 Old 11-07-2018, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ada0 View Post
Ah, ok, sorry. That was a misunderstanding. I've just put the slide to "AUTOSCALING" and tested again. No change. It still did not work out.

Ok please send email with order number. we will replace it and we see from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post
Can the Vertex convert 4K60 with HDR to any kind of displayable image on a 1080p SDR monitor?

I know that the HDfury Vertex can convert/scale 4K60 to 1080p and I also know that I need an HDfury X4 to properly convert HDR to SDR, but can the Vertex be configured to convert the 10-bit HDR to 8-bit SDR so at least ANY kind of picture can be displayed? (ie. enough of a picture so I can disable HDR through the menus of my PS4/Xbox, etc)
Not sure I'm getting you right, you want Vertex to get HDR and convert SDR for the purpose of turning off HDR in your source menu ?


Anyway... No ! if HDR comes in, HDR goes out, if you kill HDR metadata using Vertex, you still have a stream that is supposed to be rendered via HDR tv processing, without a HDR tv, it will look red tinted. the only solution is HDfury X4


Please understand that there is 3 HDR > SDR converter out there so far:
LRP 7000$
OPPO203 1000$
HDfury X4 279$


Of course X4 only work for 1080p, while others 2 can work for 4K

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3392 of 4560 Old 11-08-2018, 08:28 AM
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Talking Vertex just scored 9/10 on avforums review !

One of the best score ever.


https://www.avforums.com/review/hdfu...x-review.15094


How you guys feel with your investment in Vertex ?
JGrana, Manni01 and DrTim like this.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3393 of 4560 Old 11-08-2018, 08:38 AM
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Hi,

I used a HDFury product years ago to help connect a CRT projector to up converting DVD player.

Now, I need a new HDFury product and I'm hoping since HDFury is a member here they can give me some advice.

I have a ATV4K feeding a Sony VW285ES (Native 4K front projector). On several iTunes movies there is a problem of video drop outs every 5 minutes. I believe someone with the HDfury Vertex noted this is because a value (MaxCLL) changes causing the projector to renegotiate the HDMI handshake.

All the affected movies are Dolby Vision and presumably ATV4K does a conversion to HDR 10 and there is a problem with that conversion process.

I want to know which HDFury product to buy to set a static MaxCLL level.

Also, a second question,... researching HDFury products a few claim to be scalers. Can any of them take a standard 4K input and convert to a 21:9 AR output ? ... I don't think this is what the scaler part of these devices does but I can't quite tell by reading the manuals.

thank you,

Brian
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post #3394 of 4560 Old 11-08-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
One of the best score ever.


https://www.avforums.com/review/hdfu...x-review.15094


How you guys feel with your investment in Vertex ?

Now I want it even more...Really an unique product. Excellent work!


Anyway, to justifiy clicky buy now, I have 2 final Q's regarding its features:

- I found reference to a feature request to remove/cut off HDMI-audio on a certain output. Did this ever materialise?
- Can I use it to power on/off stuff with HDMI CEC commands trigged by IR-commands?

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display + TX-P55VT60E -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer -- Apple TV 4K -- WD LIVE TV gen 3.
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post #3395 of 4560 Old 11-08-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Hi,

I used a HDFury product years ago to help connect a CRT projector to up converting DVD player.

Now, I need a new HDFury product and I'm hoping since HDFury is a member here they can give me some advice.

I have a ATV4K feeding a Sony VW285ES (Native 4K front projector). On several iTunes movies there is a problem of video drop outs every 5 minutes. I believe someone with the HDfury Vertex noted this is because a value (MaxCLL) changes causing the projector to renegotiate the HDMI handshake.

All the affected movies are Dolby Vision and presumably ATV4K does a conversion to HDR 10 and there is a problem with that conversion process.

I want to know which HDFury product to buy to set a static MaxCLL level.

Also, a second question,... researching HDFury products a few claim to be scalers. Can any of them take a standard 4K input and convert to a 21:9 AR output ? ... I don't think this is what the scaler part of these devices does but I can't quite tell by reading the manuals.

thank you,

Brian

Hi Brian,


Currently you can force the HDR metadata of your choice, so you can define what ever value you want for any field.
So you disable incoming HDR metadata and you send your own instead, many people are using this to fix various issues some with sources, some with display.
Cannot change aspect ration like you are asking, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
Now I want it even more...Really an unique product. Excellent work!


Anyway, to justifiy clicky buy now, I have 2 final Q's regarding its features:

- I found reference to a feature request to remove/cut off HDMI-audio on a certain output. Did this ever materialise?
- Can I use it to power on/off stuff with HDMI CEC commands trigged by IR-commands?

- Yes you can turn off HDMI audio on bottom output, GUI > CONFIG
- You can send CEC command using RS232, GUI, or Android/iOS APP (using GoBlue) but not from IR. (yet it's a good idea so may be we can add it, not sure, I need to talk devs first as Vertex memory is full already)

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3396 of 4560 Old 11-08-2018, 12:09 PM
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Thank you for your reply.

Assuming the reason my PJ drops video (re-negotiates handshake) is truly because MaxCLL value changes would the 4K HDMI Dr product be enough to resolve the issue or would I need something further up the line?

If the Dr HDMI can send specific info to the pj then maybe that's enough ?...

Or course I certainly don't know but I'm hoping maybe you might.

-Brian
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post #3397 of 4560 Old 11-08-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post

- Yes you can turn off HDMI audio on bottom output, GUI > CONFIG
- You can send CEC command using RS232, GUI, or Android/iOS APP (using GoBlue) but not from IR. (yet it's a good idea so may be we can add it, not sure, I need to talk devs first as Vertex memory is full already)

But you must connect HDMI 1.x devices to the TOP output as per the manual? Or is this only a requirement if you want to downscale UHD to FHD?

I'm not yet 4K as my VT60 plasma is still HDMI 1.x and that's the one that should not be getting audio.


As for the CEC that would be a nice feature that the Harmony remote could make use off

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display + TX-P55VT60E -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer -- Apple TV 4K -- WD LIVE TV gen 3.

Last edited by Jeroen1000; 11-08-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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post #3398 of 4560 Old 11-09-2018, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Thank you for your reply.

Assuming the reason my PJ drops video (re-negotiates handshake) is truly because MaxCLL value changes would the 4K HDMI Dr product be enough to resolve the issue or would I need something further up the line?

If the Dr HDMI can send specific info to the pj then maybe that's enough ?...

Or course I certainly don't know but I'm hoping maybe you might.

-Brian

Hi Brian,


No, Dr HDMI 4K is just a 18Gbps/600MHz EDID manager, it can only trick the source into sending things that display badly advertise or wrongly advertise or trick it to get something else, like BT2020 SDR instead of BT2020HDR (if the source is capable of sending BT2020 SDR in the first place)
Normally if you have video drop, it's cable issue, but if you are sure it is MaxCLL value changes, then only Vertex or Integral2 can help you (eventually Linker as well)


May be I can help more if you confirm cable length in your setup and equipment max supported signal.


Like : SOURCE BRAND/MODEL > length of cable > equipment brand/model > length of cable > etc....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
But you must connect HDMI 1.x devices to the TOP output as per the manual? Or is this only a requirement if you want to downscale UHD to FHD?

I'm not yet 4K as my VT60 plasma is still HDMI 1.x and that's the one that should not be getting audio.


As for the CEC that would be a nice feature that the Harmony remote could make use off

Both outputs support anything up to 18Gbps, so if you only have one device , you can connect it to any output.
connecting to top out is only needed if you want to downscale signal, yes.


I'll talk to devs for cec commands from IR and let you know. but if anything happens for this, it will be after the new year as we have way too much work on the table at the moment.


PS: If you only have one device at the output and want to downscale and remove audio at the same time, you can do it using Matrix mode, its not elegant solution but will work perfectly.
Or eventually we can simply add option to remove audio from TOP output as well from GUI and not just BOT output as it is currently.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 11-09-2018 at 06:57 AM.
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post #3399 of 4560 Old 11-09-2018, 08:22 AM
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Thanks for the reply but I can use a 4 foot premium certified cable directly from the ATV4k to the Sony PJ and still get the problem.

And, it only happens on a handful of iTunes DV movies and always happens at preset time stamps for example...

Hotel Transylvania 3 5:16 10:40 16:05 21:32 27:00 32:24 37:40 43:14 48:37 53:55 59:22 1:04:50 1:10:14 1:15:35 1:20:57 1:26:22 1:31:46

There is some incompatibility between how the ATV4K converts DV to HDR10 or either on the side of the ATV4K or the Sony PJ. I"m working with support from both and if they "fix" it then I likely wouldn't need a HDFury.

Most likely they won't fix it because it doesn't affect enough users.

-Brian
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post #3400 of 4560 Old 11-09-2018, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Thanks for the reply but I can use a 4 foot premium certified cable directly from the ATV4k to the Sony PJ and still get the problem.

And, it only happens on a handful of iTunes DV movies and always happens at preset time stamps for example...

Hotel Transylvania 3 5:16 10:40 16:05 21:32 27:00 32:24 37:40 43:14 48:37 53:55 59:22 1:04:50 1:10:14 1:15:35 1:20:57 1:26:22 1:31:46

There is some incompatibility between how the ATV4K converts DV to HDR10 or either on the side of the ATV4K or the Sony PJ. I"m working with support from both and if they "fix" it then I likely wouldn't need a HDFury.

Most likely they won't fix it because it doesn't affect enough users.

-Brian


Yes, as I said, if that's really the problem here, then use Integral2 or Vertex to disable incoming HDR and send out your own, which will remain the same as what you have defined and should prevent this issue from happening ever again.
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Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3401 of 4560 Old 11-09-2018, 05:00 PM
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Use the EDID bin file in attachment as custom edid and you will be fine. we are aware of the issue, will be fixed on next update, it's because LG made an update and their DV string now looks different.
Thanks HDfury, however the first time I uploaded the bin, the vertex behaved strange, now it seems to act more normal, but there is no audio whatsoever when I use it.
Is there any news on Firmware updates? Thanks!

(updated the firmware in the meantime to 05.80.04, and updated the vertex to latest, now even in auto mode the xbox will complain about older dolby visision version)

Last edited by proza; 11-09-2018 at 05:17 PM.
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post #3402 of 4560 Old 11-09-2018, 08:55 PM
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Quick question. Vertex is working beautifully to send untouched 4K HDR to my tv from my xbox1x and sending a downrez’d signal to my legacy Marantz processor for audio, however, upon powering down when I start everything back up the tv repeatedly loses sync with the Xbox. Plug and unplug the Vertex and all is well. Is there a solution or perhaps a simple off button for the Vertex?
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post #3403 of 4560 Old 11-10-2018, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proza View Post
Thanks HDfury, however the first time I uploaded the bin, the vertex behaved strange, now it seems to act more normal, but there is no audio whatsoever when I use it.
Is there any news on Firmware updates? Thanks!

(updated the firmware in the meantime to 05.80.04, and updated the vertex to latest, now even in auto mode the xbox will complain about older dolby visision version)

The bin file I sent you is working perfectly, it allow full audio, so if your AVR doesn't support full audio, just lower audio format from the source.
If you have issue with it, it's may be cause you are not doing it right:


Make sure EDID slide is on middle position.
Run GUI > EDID section, Select CUSTOM EDID Mode, Select any of the first 10 EDID banks, LOAD FROM FILE and UPLOAD to Vertex. then reboot everything in your setup.

Firmware update is for next week.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN View Post
Quick question. Vertex is working beautifully to send untouched 4K HDR to my tv from my xbox1x and sending a downrez’d signal to my legacy Marantz processor for audio, however, upon powering down when I start everything back up the tv repeatedly loses sync with the Xbox. Plug and unplug the Vertex and all is well. Is there a solution or perhaps a simple off button for the Vertex?

What do you mean by plug and unplug ? just press RST button to do hotplug event.


Please describe setup with brand/model and cable length between all equipment and signal path.
Please add config export (usermanual p13)

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3404 of 4560 Old 11-11-2018, 01:39 PM
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Hi,

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Integral 2 which in essence is the same as the Vertex, but I want to use it as an all out scaler to hopefully do a better job of upscaling content to 4K than my TV does. Can anybody please comment on the upscaling performance of this device?
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post #3405 of 4560 Old 11-11-2018, 02:49 PM
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Is there a way to override the HDR10 metadata only when the source is HDR10, not for DV or SDR?

I know folks were looking more complex implementations but from my testing, this is all that is needed for LG OLEDs.

- Rich

Oppo UPD-205 x 2 | UPD-203 | Sonica DAC | Emotiva XMC-1 (v3) | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Benchmark AHB2 x 4 | ATI AT522NC | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 77C9 | Lumagen 2020 | HDFury Vertex x 2
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post #3406 of 4560 Old 11-11-2018, 11:25 PM
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My new vertex is not working per your instructions.....

I want my PC to play 4K (upscaled BDs with madvr) 24 RGB 12bit, I have JRiver to auto switch resolutions. All my cables are 4K short ones from monoprice, they work perfectly with the current 4K splitter but only at 8bit due to the monitor/AVR MX160 (in the other room) not allowing 4K 12bit.

So is this what I have to do……
One output from the Vertex goes to the JVC X9900 projector with 24 RGB 12bit, the other output from the vertex goes to my MX160 processer which is connected to a 4K monitor in the cinema foyer but it only does 8bit, do you understand???? I must be able to play LPCM 7.1 audio.
1. PC 4K RGB 12bit into the Vertex, do I use input 0 or input 1 of the vertex?
2. You say I set the edid for this input to edid 2, how do I do that?
3. Do I take vertex output 0 (2160) to the JVC projector and vertex output 1 (1080) to the MX160 which has the 8bit monitor attached?
4. The only other thing I then need to do is go into the scaling of the vertex and downscale output 1 (1080) MX160 to the monitor to RGB 300 Mhz signal 4:2:0 8 bit signal, is this correct?

Is there any other settings I have to make to do 4K RGB 12bit in the cinema JVC X9900 proj and 4K RGB 8bit on the MX160/Prepro/monitor other room?

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post #3407 of 4560 Old 11-12-2018, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanatus View Post
Hi,

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Integral 2 which in essence is the same as the Vertex, but I want to use it as an all out scaler to hopefully do a better job of upscaling content to 4K than my TV does. Can anybody please comment on the upscaling performance of this device?

It depends what is your current display brand/model. Please provide details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Is there a way to override the HDR10 metadata only when the source is HDR10, not for DV or SDR?

I know folks were looking more complex implementations but from my testing, this is all that is needed for LG OLEDs.

- Rich

Hi Rich,


Yes, there is Disable HDR option, SDR doesn't use metadata and DV have metadata on the stream, so they are not concerned, the one that is concerned by that is HLG and with latest update you can either kill any metadata or just HDR metadata or just HLG metadata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
My new vertex is not working per your instructions.....

I want my PC to play 4K (upscaled BDs with madvr) 24 RGB 12bit, I have JRiver to auto switch resolutions. All my cables are 4K short ones from monoprice, they work perfectly with the current 4K splitter but only at 8bit due to the monitor/AVR MX160 (in the other room) not allowing 4K 12bit.

So is this what I have to do……
One output from the Vertex goes to the JVC X9900 projector with 24 RGB 12bit, the other output from the vertex goes to my MX160 processer which is connected to a 4K monitor in the cinema foyer but it only does 8bit, do you understand???? I must be able to play LPCM 7.1 audio.
1. PC 4K RGB 12bit into the Vertex, do I use input 0 or input 1 of the vertex?
2. You say I set the edid for this input to edid 2, how do I do that?
3. Do I take vertex output 0 (2160) to the JVC projector and vertex output 1 (1080) to the MX160 which has the 8bit monitor attached?
4. The only other thing I then need to do is go into the scaling of the vertex and downscale output 1 (1080) MX160 to the monitor to RGB 300 Mhz signal 4:2:0 8 bit signal, is this correct?

Is there any other settings I have to make to do 4K RGB 12bit in the cinema JVC X9900 proj and 4K RGB 8bit on the MX160/Prepro/monitor other room?
1. Does not matter.
2. It depends how you want to set it up, you can set this up via IR, RS232, Win GUI,or Android/iOS APP (with GoBlue). if you use Windows GUI, then just pick up right edid from custom edid section in EDID TAB.
3. yes
4. No, just let SCALE slide switch on AUTOSCALING position.


Please note that monoprice cable are not known for being reliable, prefer Kabledirect for affordable good quality cable.


For any issue, please respect the process:


For any support issue/question:
- Please try to export your vertexconfig.txt (GUI > FILE > EXPORT) when trying the signal through and having the issue (if possible) and attach it as a txt file in your post.
- Issue Description, ultimately with Link to Display and/or AVR usermanual in PDF format and Link to any active or fiber cable in use.
- Always make conclusion and bug report using Wall Plug Adapter to power Vertex.
- If you have a lock icon on OLED top right corner: HOLD RST and press INP 2 times, Vertex OLED will prompt for powercycle (Remove/Reconnect USB powercord > lock icon will disappear after restart)
- Always describe your video chain path with brand/model of all equipment as well as hdmi cable length and type between them (ex: SOURCE Brand/Model > 6ft copper > Vertex INP0-OUT1> 6ft copper > AVR Brand/Model > etc...)

Example of video chain description:
Source Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > etc...

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in one chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > X4200 > 6ft copper > LG C7

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in split chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > LG C7
---------------------------------> 6ft copper > X4200


PS: Another user with same AVR than you : http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1541991910701

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 11-12-2018 at 07:23 AM.
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post #3408 of 4560 Old 11-12-2018, 07:20 AM
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Hi,

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Integral 2 which in essence is the same as the Vertex, but I want to use it as an all out scaler to hopefully do a better job of upscaling content to 4K than my TV does. Can anybody please comment on the upscaling performance of this device?
I don't think that you will get many replies.

Most owners who use the Vertex for scaling use it to downscale to either a 1080p display or to an AVR that does not support 4K HDR.

I don't have a need to upscale since all of my player devices upscale to 4K. The only HD source I have is Directv, but I can't use the Vertex to upscale the HD channels because so many of them are 720P. The Vertex can only upscale 1080p. I have my LG OLED upscale instead.

CJ
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Last edited by claw; 11-12-2018 at 07:42 AM.
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post #3409 of 4560 Old 11-12-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I don't think that you will get many replies.

Most owners who use the Vertex for scaling use it to downscale to either a 1080p display or to an AVR that does not support 4K HDR.

I don't have a need to upscale since all of my player devices upscale to 4K. The only HD source I have is Directv, but I can't use the Vertex to upscale the HD channels because so many of them are 720P. The Vertex can only upscale 1080p. I have my LG OLED upscale instead.
Ah ok thanks for clarifying things for me. I too have an LG OLED (E8) but coming from a previous Sony TV it's apparent that the Sony's are better at upscaling than LG. I'm just looking at options to try and recreate the performance of my old Sony at scaling, though everything else on the LG is just perfect.
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post #3410 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 07:55 AM
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How does this upscale 720p/1080i compared to LG OLEDs internal processors? Is this on par or better than Sony processing?
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post #3411 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
How does this upscale 720p/1080i compared to LG OLEDs internal processors? Is this on par or better than Sony processing?
There is no upscale for 720p/1080i, only HDfury X4 can do that (from us)
Vertex only upscale/downscale between FHD<>UHD or 2K <> 4K or 1080p <> 2160p

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post #3412 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 10:02 AM
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There is no upscale for 720p/1080i, only HDfury X4 can do that (from us)
Vertex only upscale/downscale between FHD<>UHD or 2K <> 4K or 1080p <> 2160p
ah, okay thanks.
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post #3413 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 10:06 AM
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I now have the Vertex working with my JVC X9900 projector playing 4K RGB 12bit and the monitor in the foyer via the MX160 playing 4K RGB 8bit so Im happy!
It is switching fine between 24,25 and 30 ripped BDs played through JRiver and madvr doing the 4K upscaling.

I had set the edid of the incoming signal from the PC (windows 10) in the vertex manually and ticked all the boxes to 12bit as I wasnt sure how to set it to read that automatically. What I dont understand is when i check the video card it doesnt show the 12bit dropdown box anymore, just 8bit, however Ive verified via the proj menu that it is playing 4K 24 12bit. If I have it set to 12bit in the Vertex and its switching to all frame rates, does it not matter if the video card isnt set to 12bit even though it is playing 12bit?

Also how do you enlarge the setup screen for the Vertex that we use on the projector or the monitor, its tiny and has no zoom control that we can find. Even wearing glasses with my nose to the screen its almost impossible to read

Also how do I turn off the vertex green OSD from showing up at the bottom of my proj screen and monitor in the other room?

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Last edited by RapalloAV; 11-13-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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post #3414 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 03:23 PM
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Is there a way to override the HDR10 metadata only when the source is HDR10, not for DV or SDR?

I know folks were looking more complex implementations but from my testing, this is all that is needed for LG OLEDs.

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It depends what is your current display brand/model. Please provide details.
Hi Rich,

Yes, there is Disable HDR option, SDR doesn't use metadata and DV have metadata on the stream, so they are not concerned, the one that is concerned by that is HLG and with latest update you can either kill any metadata or just HDR metadata or just HLG metadata.

Disable HDR is disabling is setting disable HDR but that has no effect on the LG tone-mapping.
Enable HDR always enables HDR so HDR look terrible unless manually deselected.


I am trying to Enable Custom HDR IF HDR.
The Macro's appear to be only for a projector but they could be used if there was an option in the drop-downs to use the custom HDR info.


Am I missing something?


- Rich

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post #3415 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Disable HDR is disabling is setting disable HDR but that has no effect on the LG tone-mapping.
Enable HDR always enables HDR so HDR look terrible unless manually deselected.


I am trying to Enable Custom HDR IF HDR.
The Macro's appear to be only for a projector but they could be used if there was an option in the drop-downs to use the custom HDR info.


Am I missing something?


- Rich
Not sure I understand what you are saying regarding the Disable HDR checkbox.

Disable HDR checkbox does not affect the HDR content. It only disables some metadata information so JVC projectors do not auto-switch to the built-in HDR gamma and do not disable the dynamic iris. The content is still HDR and an HDR gamma must be selected to view the HDR content.

With my LG OLED, I can't set the Disable HDR flag as my LG will then not auto-select my HDR Picture Mode. It auto-selects my SDR picture mode. In which case there is no HDR tone mapping performed. And the picture looks washed out.

The JVC macros use RS-232 communication to JVC projectors. They cannot be used to enable/disable the sending of a Custom HDR string.

It would seem possible that HDfury could implement a feature/checkbox on the HDR tab of the GUI where the Custom HDR string is only sent if the input signal is HDR. In effect, a simple HDR metadata override using a static metadata string for all HDR input.

Do note that if the purpose of the custom metadata string is to "brighten" the picture, you will likely end up clipping highlights for content with high MaxCLL values.

The Panasonic UB820 and UB9000 UHD players pretty much eliminate the need for this feature as they will tone map HDR content to the display's capabilities. For an LG OLED it will tone map the HDR bright highlights to a 1000 nit target. The LG OLED can handle tone mapping 1000 nit content quite well.

CJ
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Last edited by claw; 11-13-2018 at 06:24 PM.
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post #3416 of 4560 Old 11-13-2018, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Not sure I understand what you are saying regarding the Disable HDR checkbox.

Disable HDR checkbox does not affect the HDR content. It only disables some metadata information so JVC projectors do not auto-switch to the built-in HDR gamma and do not disable the dynamic iris. The content is still HDR and an HDR gamma must be selected to view the HDR content.

With my LG OLED, I can't set the Disable HDR flag as my LG will then not auto-select my HDR Picture Mode. It auto-selects my SDR picture mode. In which case there is no HDR tone mapping performed. And the picture looks washed out.

The JVC macros use RS-232 communication to JVC projectors. They cannot be used to enable/disable the sending of a Custom HDR string.

It would seem possible that HDfury could implement a feature/checkbox on the HDR tab of the GUI where the Custom HDR string is only sent if the input signal is HDR. In effect, a simple HDR metadata override using a static metadata string for all HDR input.

Do note that if the purpose of the custom metadata string is to "brighten" the picture, you will likely end up clipping highlights for content with high MaxCLL values.

The Panasonic UB820 and UB9000 UHD players pretty much eliminate the need for this feature as they will tone map HDR content to the display's capabilities. For an LG OLED it will tone map the HDR bright highlights to a 1000 nit target. The LG OLED can handle tone mapping 1000 nit content quite well.
I do not have a Panasonic player but experimenting with overriding the LG C7 metadata works well with 1000 and active HDR enabled. Other values can work well are 750 and 560. The static metadata is not always representative.
The C7 active hdr works by examining the content and dropping back to the native tone-mapping curve (based on the static metadata) in the presence of highlights.

4000 nit static meta-data content is very dark without Active HDR. When overridden by the Vertex, the C7 has predicable mapping.
IMO, LG tone-mapping is over-zealous, especially for 4000 nit content, deviating from the EOTF and over darkening image.
When most content is not that bright, it behaves as an ABL function that makes the picture less accurate.

This is why I am advocating for a simple HDR10 metadata override applied ONLY to HDR10 content.

- Rich

Oppo UPD-205 x 2 | UPD-203 | Sonica DAC | Emotiva XMC-1 (v3) | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Benchmark AHB2 x 4 | ATI AT522NC | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 77C9 | Lumagen 2020 | HDFury Vertex x 2

Last edited by RichB; 11-14-2018 at 07:22 AM.
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post #3417 of 4560 Old 11-14-2018, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
How does this upscale 720p/1080i compared to LG OLEDs internal processors? Is this on par or better than Sony processing?
I have something being delivered today to test if it can do exactly what you describe
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post #3418 of 4560 Old 11-14-2018, 07:06 AM
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Ok here is something strange.
My chain: sources-->Yamaha Cx-A5100-->Lumagen Pro--> Vertex--> Panasonic 65ez950 and LG 55b6.
Please see attached photos. I am outputting from my Lumagen @[email protected]@422 and yet no matter what I try Vertex will accept it as 420.
Vertex is set as seen in the pictures attached (no scaling, automix).
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post #3419 of 4560 Old 11-14-2018, 09:47 PM
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I have bought and returned two 4K projectors with the .47 dlp chip because they have been unable to offer black level/contrast equal to my current HD DLP. It has been discussed elsewhere that the new wobulators cannot match the contrast levels of the older 1080 chip because of some technical issue that is above my head. Based on my experience this is true. I cannot try the non-dlp 4K projectors because they all have too long of a throw for my HT room. Wall to screen is only 11 ft. So I am interested in a device like this Vertex that will down scale a 4K Netflix, Prime, Hulu, and Directv picture to 1080P while passing through a 720P or 1080i(Directv) or a 1080P stream from the aforementioned streaming services. My feeling is that the 4K from those different sources will have a better picture on current HD projector than a straight across 1080P source. Can anyone here verify that this is true?

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post #3420 of 4560 Old 11-15-2018, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
Ok here is something strange.
My chain: sources-->Yamaha Cx-A5100-->Lumagen Pro--> Vertex--> Panasonic 65ez950 and LG 55b6.
Please see attached photos. I am outputting from my Lumagen @[email protected]@422 and yet no matter what I try Vertex will accept it as 420.
Vertex is set as seen in the pictures attached (no scaling, automix).

On your screenshot, Panasonic TV is detected as 4K60 4:2:0 8b, Vertex is getting 4K60 4:2:0 8b and reporting Pansonic EDID to Lumagen.
I'm not sure why Lumagen report sending 4K60 4:2:2 12b (600MHz) to a 4K60 4:2:0 8b (300MHz) display, ask them.
May be the problem is that you updated TV and input are back to default (UHD color not activated) and you haven't restarted the source in the meantime.
Or when you have both TV up you have max 18Gbps automix edid and you turned one TV off and lumagen did not update or you are using HTPC mode (would need config export to verify this)
Or may be lumagen 4K60 4:2:2 12b is input signal and not output.. not sure, however, Vertex is right here.

Just remove Lumagen from the chain and see if all is fine and what you get as in and out (with scale slide on autoscaling)

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