HDFury Vertex - Owners thread - Page 132 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3931 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Ok look, first of all it is NOT ALLOWED by HDMI standard to take power from HDMI, your cable is doing it. Based on that, you should AT LEAST contact Kramer to know HOW MUCH power does it take from each ends.
So I'm happy you never had any issue but believe me you would have an issue with pretty much any 5V device. The only reason those companies offer cable without Power supply is to save profit and be more competitive compared to companies that do offer power supply as per HDMI standard (ex: CelerityTek).


The only possible issues and solutions here are below (except for may be one we are investigating atm):
- Defective AC Adapter, try another 5V 2A power supply (such as one from smartphone or tablet, they are usually 5V 2A as well) > that's a test to confirm POWER SOURCE is OK.
- Not using supplied USB power cord (if you are using supplied power cord, you can try a shorter/thicker one and see if it helps, you can also try to turn LOGO LED and OLED OFF, see if it helps) > That's a test to confirm Fiber is taking too much power
- Fiber optic sucking too much voltage (need exact power consumption from Kramer please to make sure !) Eventually, can be confirmed by above test and/or trying 5.25V 2A PSU. (NEVER EXCEED 5.3V) > Also to confirm Fiber power consumption issue.
- Can also try adding +5V power injector. > Also to confirm Fiber power consumption issue.


> So basically same recommendations than what you can read on first post for user who have active or fiber cable taking power from HDMI.
I'm not sure where you get this info about the cable, but the cable is ACTIVE and it is powered by an external power adapter just as Celerity.
This whole theory about power supply does not explain why Vertex or Linker works if put before the fiber and doesn't work if put after the fiber. Same fiber, same cables, same signal at 600.
Clearly this is a compatibility issue.
Anyway, I already tried truning off LED and OLED - no effect.
One thing I haven't tried yet is using alternative power adapter. When I connected Linker and Vertex AFTER the fiber (failed) I use PSU and cables supplied with Vertex for both and when I connected them BEFORE the fiber (works) - I used PSU and cable supplied with the Linker for both.
Once we determined that the cable is active and powered do I still need to do all the tests with alternative power supplies?

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post #3932 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
I'm not sure where you get this info about the cable, but the cable is ACTIVE and it is powered by an external power adapter just as Celerity.
This whole theory about power supply does not explain why Vertex or Linker works if put before the fiber and doesn't work if put after the fiber. Same fiber, same cables, same signal at 600.
Clearly this is a compatibility issue.
Anyway, I already tried truning off LED and OLED - no effect.
One thing I haven't tries yes is using alternative power adapter. When I connected Linker and Vertex AFTER the fiber (failed) I use PSU and cables supplied with Vertex for both and when I connected them BEFORE the fiber (works) - I used PSU and cable supplied with the Linker for both.
Once we determined that the cable is active and powered do I still need to do all the tests with alternative power supplies?
CELERITY TEK have power supply on both ends, is it the case for your cable ?
VERTEX PCB2 and INTEGRAL2 have fix for such cable, so they can power such cable at the output, no problem.
Earlier Vertex would need 5.25V 2A power supply to power such cable at output.
Yes please run the test and confirm if you have power supply on both end.


EDIT: Please also verify if the fiber cable power supply is still working correctly.

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post #3933 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
CELERITY TEK have power supply on both ends, is it the case for your cable ?
VERTEX PCB2 and INTEGRAL2 have fix for such cable, so they can power such cable at the output, no problem.
Earlier Vertex would need 5.25V 2A power supply to power such cable at output.
Yes please run the test and confirm if you have power supply on both end.
Yes, the cable CAN be powered on both ends, but as with Celerity it only needs to be powered on the display end:
https://www.purelink.de/marketing/up...ch_Summary.pdf

My cable is also powered on the display end and it happens to be the end at which Vertex doesn't work. If connected to the unpowered end (source, before fiber) the Vertex works as it should.

I'll run more tests with power supplies later, but I don't own a 5,25V 2A one.

Last edited by Mojito; 01-15-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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post #3934 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I added the pic again (it was posted in Integral2 thread if memory serves)


PSU label (POWER) connect directly to AC Adapter (or to computer USB port for power when you use GUI)
PC label (COMMUNICATION) connect directly to Computer when you use Windows GUI, or to GoBlue and GoBlue connect to AC Adapter as GoBlue also need power to operate.
Well... the Y cable is plugged-in correctly.

Will try connecting the computer later on to see how it goes.

W.

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post #3935 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 10:09 AM
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Oups again! Really dumb of me, but reading once again made everything finally clear to me.

Will adjust the cable and it should be fine.

Maybe a schema of how to use the Y cable with the GoBlue on one of its web pages would make things clear for everyone.

Regards,

W.

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post #3936 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
Yes, the cable CAN be powered on both ends, but as with Celerity it only needs to be powered on the display end:
https://www.purelink.de/marketing/up...ch_Summary.pdf

My cable is also powered on the display end and it happens to be the end at which Vertex doesn't work. If connected to the unpowered end (source, before fiber) the Vertex works as it should.

I'll run more tests with power supplies later, but I don't own a 5,25V 2A one.

Please power both ends, and if it doesn't help, reverse the power supply between them, make sure the one at output is not faulty. also try both inputs on Vertex

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post #3937 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walky View Post
Oups again! Really dumb of me, but reading once again made everything finally clear to me.

Will adjust the cable and it should be fine.

Maybe a schema of how to use the Y cable with the GoBlue on one of its web pages would make things clear for everyone.

Regards,

W.

Will add a video
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post #3938 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Please power both ends, and if it doesn't help, reverse the power supply between them, make sure the one at output is not faulty. also try both inputs on Vertex
I tried everything now (except 5.25V PSU) with no success.
I also tried true [email protected] 444 8 bit pattern from my pattern generator without Vertex and it worked. With Vertex - same problem as with Oppo interface.
It's either faulty or not compatible.
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post #3939 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
I tried everything now (except 5.25V PSU) with no success.
I also tried true [email protected] 444 8 bit pattern from my pattern generator without Vertex and it worked. With Vertex - same problem as with Oppo interface.
It's either faulty or not compatible.
We can try a replacement if you want to. just send email.

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post #3940 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
VERTEX PCB2 and INTEGRAL2 have fix for such cable, so they can power such cable at the output, no problem.
Is my Vertex PCB2? This could explain why Vertex works upstream of the fiber, but then what about Linker? If Linker doesn't have this kind of fix, why does it also work?
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post #3941 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
We can try a replacement if you want to. just send email.
If you think it may help, I would like to try.
What is the email address?
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post #3942 of 4705 Old 01-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Can't we create more different 1080p modes? I'd like to see
1080p25
1080p30
1080p50
1080i Mode.
I understand that it can't be lower?
(like 720p, 720p24, 720p60).

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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Will add a video
About GoBlue - you connect it to that end of cable, where's wrote 'PC'.
Without GoBlue IMHO nightmare, only the computer would be very uncomfortable, but it depends on the situation of course.
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post #3944 of 4705 Old 01-16-2019, 07:56 AM
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Is my Vertex PCB2? This could explain why Vertex works upstream of the fiber, but then what about Linker? If Linker doesn't have this kind of fix, why does it also work?

Yes your Vertex is PCB2, you can see that from GUI top tier and I can see that on your config export.


The original fix with pcb2 power was to increase the output voltage from around 4.5 to 5V. Some sinks like the cables need the full 5V.
for input side we need around 3.3V from the source to know something is connected once we are ready we give the hotplug back to the source, which is the same ~ 4.5V whatever the USB gives us
the hdmi spec for this is 2.8 - 5.5Vso if there is a fiber cable or something that doesnt work with 4.5V then first, it would not be according to spec and couldn't work with many devices at all and secondly it is not allowed to draw current from this pin so whether it would work with 5.25V I cannot know at all
its a random thing/must be tested.


Linker could simply offer a bit more and that could do the trick. to know for sure we would need that cable in our lab and take measurement, that's why I initially asked you to check with KramerAV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
If you think it may help, I would like to try.
What is the email address?
See footer of any page on HDfury.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by inspire View Post
Can't we create more different 1080p modes? I'd like to see
1080p25
1080p30
1080p50
1080i Mode.
I understand that it can't be lower?
(like 720p, 720p24, 720p60).

Vertex is not a FRAME RATE CONVERTER so if input is 4K24 downscaled signal is 1080p24, if input is 4K50 downscaled signal is 1080p50 and so on...
If you need to do HDR > SDR or 1080i <> 1080p or 720p <> 1080p or anything within HDMI 1.x domain, you can use HDfury X4, it can scale between any HDTV and PC resolution within HDMI 1.x bandwidth including changing aspect ratio, frame rate conversion, toggle NTSC/PAL, etc...
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Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Linker could simply offer a bit more and that could do the trick. to know for sure we would need that cable in our lab and take measurement, that's why I initially asked you to check with KramerAV.
I would kindly ask you to contact KramerAV directly as you know better what to ask if if they or you need to clarify something. They usually respond to requests and I think it's for your mutual interest to resolve it if it is indeed a compatibility problem.
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post

Vertex is not a FRAME RATE CONVERTER so if input is 4K24 downscaled signal is 1080p24, if input is 4K50 downscaled signal is 1080p50 and so on...
If you need to do HDR > SDR or 1080i <> 1080p or 720p <> 1080p or anything within HDMI 1.x domain, you can use HDfury X4, it can scale between any HDTV and PC resolution within HDMI 1.x bandwidth including changing aspect ratio, frame rate conversion, toggle NTSC/PAL, etc...
Thanks for the explanation. And No, I don't want to make frame rate conversions. I thought Vertex wouldn't know these Modes. If Vertex can handle all these, it's fine.
So if the source is 1080p50 what's it got out from Vertex then? I can't see on the Port EDID Customs bank that Mode. I see there
74- 1080p60-444 12-bit HDR BT2020 All Sound
75- 1080p60
76- 1080p60
...
83- 1080p24-444 12-bit HDR BT2020 All Sound
...
My wish is that the source is the same as the output, but I wasn't sure about that.

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post #3947 of 4705 Old 01-16-2019, 09:20 AM
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I would kindly ask you to contact KramerAV directly as you know better what to ask if if they or you need to clarify something. They usually respond to requests and I think it's for your mutual interest to resolve it if it is indeed a compatibility problem.

Then at least provide contact details as I wrote to you before from our location we cannot reach their website we are redirected to their local resellers automatically.

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post #3948 of 4705 Old 01-16-2019, 09:25 AM
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Thanks for the explanation. And No, I don't want to make frame rate conversions. I thought Vertex wouldn't know these Modes. If Vertex can handle all these, it's fine.
So if the source is 1080p50 what's it got out from Vertex then? I can't see on the Port EDID Customs bank that Mode. I see there
74- 1080p60-444 12-bit HDR BT2020 All Sound
75- 1080p60
76- 1080p60
...
83- 1080p24-444 12-bit HDR BT2020 All Sound
...
My wish is that the source is the same as the output, but I wasn't sure about that.

EDID only defines the max possible that you can get from a source, so if you set EDID at 1080p60 then source can still send anything lower than that, including 1080p50, 1080p25, 1080p24, 1080i, 720p, 480p, 576i, etc....
Same for 4K, if you set at 4K60, then you source can still send 4K50; 4K25; 4K24, etc...
Same if you set at 4K30 source can still send 4K25, 4K24, etc...


If you want source to send something in and have the same at the output, then you just use an EDID that match device at output and put SCALE SLIDE to NO SCALING, but if one the sink at output have inferior specs, then you should use EDID that match the device with higher specs and let the scale slide on AUTOSCALING for Vertex to downscale for the inferior sink.
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Thanks for the clarification!

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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Then at least provide contact details as I wrote to you before from our location we cannot reach their website we are redirected to their local resellers automatically.
Kramer AV Support:
+972-73-265-0567
[email protected]
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post #3951 of 4705 Old 01-16-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
Kramer AV Support:
+972-73-265-0567
[email protected]

Email sent, i'll let you know if I got a reply.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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Please use the other email, this one only speaks Chinese
That was fast! already got the replacement. amazing customer service
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I just updated my Vertex to 1.36, but I don't have a GUI-200 file. I can barely read the other GUI. How do I get the 200 version?

As a result, the "Send" button isn't visible on many of the tabs and thus isn't accessible to apply changes.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
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Last edited by Erod; 01-16-2019 at 10:43 PM.
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post #3954 of 4705 Old 01-16-2019, 10:20 PM
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I recently purchased the HDfury Vertex to initially strip the HDR metadata so that I have the option of using low-lamp mode with a JVC RS640. Unfortunately, it has been sitting in a box due to lack of time, and I have ChadB visiting in just a few days. I would really appreciate any pointers to threads/stickies/manual pages that would allow me to try HDR metadata stripping in the most straightforward way. Time permitting, I hope to learn more about macros etc to get the most out this beast. Thanks in advance.
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post #3955 of 4705 Old 01-17-2019, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
I just updated my Vertex to 1.36, but I don't have a GUI-200 file. I can barely read the other GUI. How do I get the 200 version?

As a result, the "Send" button isn't visible on many of the tabs and thus isn't accessible to apply changes.

Read first post of this thread and apply the GUI FIX on your windows system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_in_NorCal View Post
I recently purchased the HDfury Vertex to initially strip the HDR metadata so that I have the option of using low-lamp mode with a JVC RS640. Unfortunately, it has been sitting in a box due to lack of time, and I have ChadB visiting in just a few days. I would really appreciate any pointers to threads/stickies/manual pages that would allow me to try HDR metadata stripping in the most straightforward way. Time permitting, I hope to learn more about macros etc to get the most out this beast. Thanks in advance.
I would recommend to update first and unlock after update (usermanual p13) update process also described in usermanual.
Then run Win GUI > HDR/IF section > enable the checkbox called "Disable HDR" and you are done.
For JVC macro, follow manni guide.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
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post #3956 of 4705 Old 01-17-2019, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Walky View Post
Oups again! Really dumb of me, but reading once again made everything finally clear to me.

Will adjust the cable and it should be fine.

Maybe a schema of how to use the Y cable with the GoBlue on one of its web pages would make things clear for everyone.

Regards,

W.

HDFury Y power cable connect with PC demo
HDFury Y power cable connect with GoBlue demo


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Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3957 of 4705 Old 01-17-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_in_NorCal View Post
I recently purchased the HDfury Vertex to initially strip the HDR metadata so that I have the option of using low-lamp mode with a JVC RS640. Unfortunately, it has been sitting in a box due to lack of time, and I have ChadB visiting in just a few days. I would really appreciate any pointers to threads/stickies/manual pages that would allow me to try HDR metadata stripping in the most straightforward way. Time permitting, I hope to learn more about macros etc to get the most out this beast. Thanks in advance.
The Vertex is not required to run the JVC in low lamp, and does not affect picture brightness at all.

The Vertex has a "Disable HDR" checkbox on the HDR IF Gui tab that prevents the JVC from disabling its Dynamic Iris when receiving HDR content.

That's all you need to do if you want the dynamic iris enabled when watching HDR content.

ChadB will likely create custom HDR gamma curves for you. If you connect an RS232 cable between the Vertex and JVC, you can use the Vertex JVC macros to send commands to the JVC to automatically select the appropriate custom curve based on the content. The first post in this thread has links to documentation and instructions for using the Macros.

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JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral

Last edited by claw; 01-17-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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post #3958 of 4705 Old 01-17-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Vertex is not required to run the JVC in low lamp, and does not affect picture brightness at all.

The Vertex has a "Disable HDR" checkbox on the HDR IF Gui tab that prevents the JVC from disabling its Dynamic Iris when receiving HDR content.

That's all you need to do if you want the dynamic iris enabled when watching HDR content.

ChadB will likely create custom HDR gamma curves for you. If you connect an RS232 cable between the Vertex and JVC, you can use the Vertex JVC macros to send commands to the JVC to automatically select the appropriate custom curve based on the content. The first post in this thread has links to documentation and instructions for using the Macros.
Thanks. However, I was under the impression that the RS640 automatically switches to "HDR" mode when HDR metadata is present. I may want two different modes for watching HDR content - low lamp and high lamp. With my Panny UB820 player I can defeat the auto switch with the SDR/BT2020 conversion setting in the player. However, watching Netflix etc results in an auto-switch in the projector to HDR. If I want a choice between high and low lamp with HDR streaming, I need to defeat this auto switch. Unless this is available in the projector, the Vertex would be the solution.

I will read up on the "Disable HDR" option on Vertex. If this disables the HDR metadata, then I think this will accomplish my goal. Yes, having the option of a dynamic iris for HDR sounds useful
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post #3959 of 4705 Old 01-17-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_in_NorCal View Post
Thanks. However, I was under the impression that the RS640 automatically switches to "HDR" mode when HDR metadata is present. I may want two different modes for watching HDR content - low lamp and high lamp. With my Panny UB820 player I can defeat the auto switch with the SDR/BT2020 conversion setting in the player. However, watching Netflix etc results in an auto-switch in the projector to HDR. If I want a choice between high and low lamp with HDR streaming, I need to defeat this auto switch. Unless this is available in the projector, the Vertex would be the solution.

I will read up on the "Disable HDR" option on Vertex. If this disables the HDR metadata, then I think this will accomplish my goal. Yes, having the option of a dynamic iris for HDR sounds useful
I own the original model RS500. I don't know enough about the RS640 to know if the Vertex Disable HDR option will also disable the 640 from auto switching to its default HDR picture mode or not. It does disable auto-switching in my RS500 so I use the Vertex macros to auto select the proper HDR picture mode. The Disable HDR checkbox still results in HDR being sent to the JVC and you need to use an HDR curve; whether auto selected or manually selected.

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post #3960 of 4705 Old 01-17-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
https://youtu.be/-9NCJDruZHY HDFury Y power cable connect with PC demo
https://youtu.be/dr6y6LW7tPk HDFury Y power cable connect with GoBlue demo


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@HDfury ,

Thanks for both videos, very useful in understanding that the Y cable with the GoBlue is only useful if you need to provide more power to the Vertex or Integral...

I was hoping to easily connect my PC via the additional available USB plug as in the demo without the GoGlue, but you can't have 2 peripherals communicating with the Vertex via the same cable.

Regards,

W.

TV: Samsung UE78JS9580 (4K HDR10) ; - - - - - - - - AUDIO: Denon AVR-X3100W (4K HDCP 1.4)
Media players: Minix U9-H (4K HDR), OpenHour Chameleon (4K SDR), PopcornHour C200 (HD)
Matrix switches: HDfury DIVA & Integral (rev. 1, 600 MHz)
Game consoles: Sony PlayStation 4, Nintendo Wii
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