HDFury Vertex - Owners thread - Page 138 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4111 of 4440 Old 03-01-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Any settings with the vertex that I can set to fastened up sync times for my jvc projector, seem to starting trailers of all content
Need advice


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No, that's JVC issue, eventually you can save a second or two, by loading special firmware, but if you really want to save more sync time on JVC, you need something like LRP.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
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post #4112 of 4440 Old 03-01-2019, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Any settings with the vertex that I can set to fastened up sync times for my jvc projector, seem to starting trailers of all content
Need advice
If you have an AppleTV 4K, you can set HDR as default, turn off matching, then everything including the trailers will be in HDR and there’s no interruptions due to synching.
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post #4113 of 4440 Old 03-01-2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Any settings with the vertex that I can set to fastened up sync times for my jvc projector, seem to starting trailers of all content
Need advice
Not much can be done. It is a characteristic of these JVC projectors.

I get 11-18 second HDMI sync times with the Vertex located between my Denon AVR and my RS500 projector.

Resolution change, Frame rate change, and HDCP change will all result in a JVC sync to the new signal.

Like previously mentioned the only device that seems to be able to help is the Lumagen.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Vertex/Linker/Integral

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post #4114 of 4440 Old 03-01-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Not much can be done. It is a characteristic of these JVC projectors.



I get 11-18 second HDMI sync times with the Vertex located between my Denon AVR and my RS500 projector.



Resolution change, Frame rate change, and HDCP change will all result in a JVC sync to the new signal.



Like previously mentioned the only device that seems to be able to help is the Lumagen.


What is the current price and where is the best place to look for lumagen? Given the sync time reduction, best tone mapping capabilities I wonder if this would be worth it. I know I know they are expensive as hell but...


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post #4115 of 4440 Old 03-01-2019, 02:03 PM
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HDFury Vertex - Owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
No, that's JVC issue, eventually you can save a second or two, by loading special firmware, but if you really want to save more sync time on JVC, you need something like LRP.

I’m in Australia and can’t find any sellers here.
Is that a vertex firmware or a jvc firmware. Is there a link for it?


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post #4116 of 4440 Old 03-01-2019, 11:45 PM
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Vertex can extract audio up to 5.1. What about Vertex 2?

HTPC NUC7i5 ----> 6ft copper ----> VERTEX ----> 6ft copper ----> LG C8
--------------------------------------------------------> 6ft copper ----> ARCAM AVR600
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post #4117 of 4440 Old 03-03-2019, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tswire View Post
What is the current price and where is the best place to look for lumagen? Given the sync time reduction, best tone mapping capabilities I wonder if this would be worth it. I know I know they are expensive as hell but...


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LRP should be around 7000$

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
I’m in Australia and can’t find any sellers here.
Is that a vertex firmware or a jvc firmware. Is there a link for it?


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Vertex firmware, ask user hdfury on our discord support server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapo7 View Post
Vertex can extract audio up to 5.1. What about Vertex 2?

Vertex can extract up to 5.1 from HDMI via optical out, it can forward any audio format from HDMI to HDMI out (while downscaling, converting video format and so on to render it compatible with older AVR video supported specs...)
Vertex can also extract ARC up to 192Khz and forward it via optical (for any AVR that support 192Khz via optical in) that allow for Atmos over DD+ from TV apps.


Vertex2 can do all the same, except that it have a dedicated audio output and can also extract Atmos HBR over TrueHD from eARC TV and forward via HDMI out (same for ARC Atmos over DD+)
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
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post #4118 of 4440 Old 03-03-2019, 12:36 PM
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Can I ask to add more digits in info about framerate output?
We have xx.xxx at the moment. Can you implement xx.xxxx, please?

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
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post #4119 of 4440 Old 03-04-2019, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Can I ask to add more digits in info about framerate output?
We have xx.xxx at the moment. Can you implement xx.xxxx, please?

Where exactly ? because OLED space is becoming tricky to add more digits without losing some characters when signal is complex.
If on GUI or OSD only, then that's easier.
Also what is the purpose of having 4 decimals accuracy on frame rate ?

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4120 of 4440 Old 03-05-2019, 12:25 PM
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In place where is easier for you. Preferably on OSD.
I have bought second Himedia player and sometimes I see 23.974 and sometimes 23.975. So, I interested about next decimal...

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
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Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4121 of 4440 Old 03-05-2019, 06:27 PM
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I want to control Sony projector with the Vertex.
Is it possible to corresponding to RS232 baud rate 38400? Please corresponding to it if possible.
And it would be great if the JVC MACROS could be used by Sony projector as well.
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post #4122 of 4440 Old 03-06-2019, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknsmarine View Post
I want to control Sony projector with the Vertex.
Is it possible to corresponding to RS232 baud rate 38400? Please corresponding to it if possible.
And it would be great if the JVC MACROS could be used by Sony projector as well.

You need Maestro/Diva or Vertex2 to control any RS232 display since only Maestro/Diva or Vertex2 allow you to manually enter the RS232 commands of your choice.
Settings baud rate is no problem, you can set anything between 9600 and 112000

On VERTEX the RS232 commands are fixed for JVC PJ.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4123 of 4440 Old 03-06-2019, 03:40 PM
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I am interested in knowing what the data rate is for the video the Vertex is passing through its electronics. I'm not sure, but doesn't the data rate in large part determine the video quality? One area I'm interested in is comparing the rates between the various streaming services. For example, DirectvNow vs You Tube TV vs Sling. Can this be done?

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post #4124 of 4440 Old 03-06-2019, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post
I am interested in knowing what the data rate is for the video the Vertex is passing through its electronics. I'm not sure, but doesn't the data rate in large part determine the video quality? One area I'm interested in is comparing the rates between the various streaming services. For example, DirectvNow vs You Tube TV vs Sling. Can this be done?

Yes of course, both frequency in MHz and Datarate in Gb/s are displayed and yes of course, the higher the better, but yet some 1080p60 444 12b 222MHz can look better than some 4K60 420 8b 300MHz... so it's not the only thing to consider.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4125 of 4440 Old 03-06-2019, 08:08 PM
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nm

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post #4126 of 4440 Old 03-06-2019, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Yes of course, both frequency in MHz and Datarate in Gb/s are displayed and yes of course, the higher the better, but yet some 1080p60 444 12b 222MHz can look better than some 4K60 420 8b 300MHz... so it's not the only thing to consider.
I saw your info on Page 19 where it showed the signal at 13.36 Ghz. 13.36 Ghz is 4k or 1080P? Am I confusing Ghz with 13.36 Mbps for HD on cable boxes and Directv? Is that shown or could it be shown on the projection screen when the data is displayed momentarily? The Vertex is difficult to get to in order to read the display.

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post #4127 of 4440 Old 03-07-2019, 05:03 AM
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I saw your info on Page 19 where it showed the signal at 13.36 Ghz. 13.36 Ghz is 4k or 1080P? Am I confusing Ghz with 13.36 Mbps for HD on cable boxes and Directv? Is that shown or could it be shown on the projection screen when the data is displayed momentarily? The Vertex is difficult to get to in order to read the display.

13.36 is Gbps
Mbps is channel capacity
MHz is bandwidth


300 MHz = 10.2 Gbps = 4K so anything that is equal or above 300MHz is 4K, anything that is below 10.2Gbps or 300MHz is 1080p or less


Bandwidth in MHz is always displayed on OSD.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
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post #4128 of 4440 Old 03-07-2019, 07:49 AM
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Arrow Vertex 2

Vertex2 will be available in about 3 months from now. Any users willing to start and maintain a thread for it is welcome to do so at anytime.
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4129 of 4440 Old 03-07-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
13.36 is Gbps
Mbps is channel capacity
MHz is bandwidth


300 MHz = 10.2 Gbps = 4K so anything that is equal or above 300MHz is 4K, anything that is below 10.2Gbps or 300MHz is 1080p or less


Bandwidth in MHz is always displayed on OSD.
My other question was which data on the projection screen that appears briefly can be used to see the number of bits coming down the line? If it is not there how can it be added to the projection screen display?

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post #4130 of 4440 Old 03-07-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post
My other question was which data on the projection screen that appears briefly can be used to see the number of bits coming down the line? If it is not there how can it be added to the projection screen display?

I think you are talking about video encoding bitrates, that have nothing to do with the hdmi signal.


Anyway, I'm still answering just in case of:


Take the MHz value and multiply by 30 (3 pairs of data in HDMI and 10bits per sample)


So for example 300MHz x 30 = 9000 Mbps = 9Gbps

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4131 of 4440 Old 03-07-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Vertex2 will be available in about 3 months from now. Any users willing to start and maintain a thread for it is welcome to do so at anytime.
Are you considering a model with all connections on the rear?


- Rich

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post #4132 of 4440 Old 03-08-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Are you considering a model with all connections on the rear?


- Rich


Not on this current new generation/platform (Maestro/Diva/Vertex2). May be for HDMI2.1 in 2021 more likely.
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4133 of 4440 Old 03-09-2019, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Not on this current new generation/platform (Maestro/Diva/Vertex2). May be for HDMI2.1 in 2021 more likely.
Do you have plans to increase framerate info on OSD to 6 or more digits in next FW? Thank you.

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4134 of 4440 Old 03-09-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Do you have plans to increase framerate info on OSD to 6 or more digits in next FW? Thank you.

I wait devs answer, they are busy with Maestro/Diva/Vertex2 atm.
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4135 of 4440 Old 03-13-2019, 09:45 AM
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I posted this on C7 thread to address tone-mapping issues that can be addressed using the Vertex HDR10 static metadata override feature:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57738958


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
The metadata on the disk is not reliable. Content "Mastered" on a 4000 nit display may be not be substantially different from content mastered on a 1000 nit display but the C7 will use a different base tone curve. Dynamic Contrast = Low improves PQ-EOTF tracking by analyzing this frame by frame. However, in the presence of spectral highlights, the underlying tone-mapping curve seems to be based on the static metadata.

LG does not ignore the metadata and this is easily proved by loading the Sony/Columbia disk and pressing 7669 (I think) to bring up HDR patterns with 10000 nit static metadata.
The 100 nits ramp includes a small smooth ramp on the bottom. It is immediately obvious that 100 nits is only a mid-tone, even when dynamic tone-mapping engaged.
I have used the Vertex 2 to override the static metadata and the change on this and the other high nit screens are obvious.

LG dynamic tone mapping restores the APL of most content but when there are spectral highlights reduces the APL to show more detail in the highlights.
One interesting aspect is that Batman V Superman lightning scenes do indeed show more detail in bright areas but lose detail in mid and low lighted scenes, even with dynamic tone-mapping engaged.
More importantly, the brightness and impact of the flashes are also reduced. IMO, this actually lessens the impact of these scenes.
I much prefer watching this title with the static meta data overridden.

Dolby Vision has this figured out in that DV specifies the tone-mapping curve (LG and others cannot alter it) and the content is mastered to preserve APL while not blowing out most highlights.

I am using an HDFury Vertex to override the static metadata and have left dynamic tone-mapping on. It's a preference, but this results in the a high APL on low/mid tone scenes and some reduction APL on bright scenes.

BTW, HDR10+ does not fix any problems associated from applying an overly aggressive tone-mapping curve because that is under control of the TV/Display manufacturer.
Any display that alters APL 100 nits or lower based on static or dynamic metadata is grossly inaccurate. The PQ-EOTF is an absolute scale.
This is actually worse than ABL because, it dims the average picture level when the display is capable of displaying it a full luminance.
It's mind-numbingly dumb.

The Vertex can be used for greater control of tone-mapping (and the fallback curve). I am not a gamer, but this should solve the issue of games being too dark.

The new Panasonic's UHD layers have tone-mapping controls which also replace the disk metadata with fixed values.
The HDFury Vertex and other new HDFury products can correct overly dimmed issues that are related to tone-mapping for all HDR10 sources.

What other HDFury products provide the HDR10 metadata override feature?

- Rich

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post #4136 of 4440 Old 03-13-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
What other HDFury products provide the HDR10 metadata override feature?
The Integral 2 should as it's basically a Vertex without the OLED display. I believe the Maestro does as well, but this should probably be confirmed by someone else.
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post #4137 of 4440 Old 03-13-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I posted this on C7 thread to address tone-mapping issues that can be addressed using the Vertex HDR10 static metadata override feature:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57738958





What other HDFury products provide the HDR10 metadata override feature?

- Rich
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
The Integral 2 should as it's basically a Vertex without the OLED display. I believe the Maestro does as well, but this should probably be confirmed by someone else.

To automatically override HDR metadata with custom defined HDR metadata when HDR is incoming: Vertex/Integral2/Maestro/Diva/Vertex2
When signal is not HDR, it will bypass normally, nothing applied.


Can be applied to HLG for HLG > HDR conversion. (Render HLG source on HDR display)
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
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post #4138 of 4440 Old 03-15-2019, 11:51 AM
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i bought an onkyo tx nr 1030 with a bad primary in hdmi

the hdmi main out in my onkyo 1030 seems to not work at all. I have a samsung 65ju7100 with a one connect which allows me to use a digital optical cable and have digital optical sound in each of the 4 hdmi's on the one connect. This on the other hand has left me with no atmos, no true hd sound and makes me having hdmi on the onkyo pointless.


My question I think goes like this lol........could this fix my problem in anyway? i.e. into sub out? Any help would be appreciated!
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post #4139 of 4440 Old 03-15-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catov9 View Post
the hdmi main out in my onkyo 1030 seems to not work at all. I have a samsung 65ju7100 with a one connect which allows me to use a digital optical cable and have digital optical sound in each of the 4 hdmi's on the one connect. This on the other hand has left me with no atmos, no true hd sound and makes me having hdmi on the onkyo pointless.


My question I think goes like this lol........could this fix my problem in anyway? i.e. into sub out? Any help would be appreciated!

As long as AVR input is working you can get HDMI source forwarded to it and as long as optical in is working you can get ARC sound sent to him when using Vertex.


Hope that answers your question.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4140 of 4440 Old 03-17-2019, 04:14 AM
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I'm a new Integral 2 owner. I'd like to replicate the tone mapping in my Panasonic ub420, where I have HDR optimiser set to OLED (1000 nit tone mapping) and a slight +2 to dynamic range adjustment (makes mid-tones a bit brighter I think). I'm very pleased with the HDR I get from the Panasonic as I have fine-tuned the brightness to suit my room.

What is the best way of achieving HDR image quality like this with the Integral 2, for other sources e.g. Apple TV 4k?

I don't really understand the HDR settings on the Integral and how they compare to the Panasonic HDR controls. Can anyone point me in the right direction please? I won't have a lot of time for experimentation for a while, so hoping for a bit of help.

I use an Epson tw9300, which is the same model as the US version Epson 6040ub.

If I set Max cll 900 will that work for example? Or is the Panasonic player capable of more HDR fine-tuning than the Integral 2/ Vertex?

Thanks.
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