HDFury Vertex - Owners thread - Page 146 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4351 of 4440 Old 05-18-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
I expect that vertex should send proper EDID to my source and source will send HD Audio or core audio accordingly...
The Vertex will likely see the same capabilities in the AVR's EDID whether the AVR is turned ON or in Standby mode.

Thus the Vertex always sees HD audio is supported by the AVR and reports that information to the player. Even if the AVR is in Standby mode, the player will then send HD audio. The TV connected to the AVR in Standby mode gets HD audio and is not able to process it.

If you are using Automix, try setting the 5.1 Multi checkbox when the AVR is in Standby Mode and you want just the core audio passed to the TV. The player should then see that HD audio is not supported.
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Last edited by claw; 05-18-2019 at 08:34 PM.
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post #4352 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Vertex will likely see the same capabilities in the AVR's EDID whether the AVR is turned ON or in Standby mode.

Thus the Vertex always sees HD audio is supported by the AVR and reports that information to the player. Even if the AVR is in Standby mode, the player will then send HD audio. The TV connected to the AVR in Standby mode gets HD audio and is not able to process it...
@HDfury ,

Based on the above exchange and the response from @claw , I think I remember my Vertex's App reporting the fact that my AVR was in Standby mode (sold the Vertex, so I can't check: please confirm if I'm mistaken).

I guess you might not be able to implement the following on the Vertex or Integral 2 due to the memory being fully used... but if the AVR's Standby mode can be detected, maybe you could add the option to adapt the audio part of the EDID (simply report the display's EDID) based on the AVR's power mode on the more recent devices?

Just an idea to take this situation into account if possible.

Rgds,

W.

TV: Samsung UE78JS9580 (4K HDR10); AUDIO: Denon AVR-X3100W (4K HDCP 1.4)
Media players: Minix U9-H (4K HDR), OpenHour Chameleon (4K SDR), PopcornHour C200 (HD)
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post #4353 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
I never wrote than I want to send HD Audio from source when AVR is OFF. Where you red about it?

Here:
Quote:
"no audio when playing file with HD Audio. Please advice."
if AVR is OFF and TV is ON, and you try to play HD AUDIO, then for sure TV cannot understand HD audio.

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Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Is it common case that I need to hard reset Vertex from time to time to have proper result in setup?
No, it happens to you only, may be cause your AVR is corrupting edid as outlined previously. Anyway since you never provide config, no further answer can be given.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4354 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Vertex will likely see the same capabilities in the AVR's EDID whether the AVR is turned ON or in Standby mode.

Thus the Vertex always sees HD audio is supported by the AVR and reports that information to the player. Even if the AVR is in Standby mode, the player will then send HD audio. The TV connected to the AVR in Standby mode gets HD audio and is not able to process it.

If you are using Automix, try setting the 5.1 Multi checkbox when the AVR is in Standby Mode and you want just the core audio passed to the TV. The player should then see that HD audio is not supported.
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Originally Posted by Walky View Post
@HDfury,

Based on the above exchange and the response from @claw, I think I remember my Vertex's App reporting the fact that my AVR was in Standby mode (sold the Vertex, so I can't check: please confirm if I'm mistaken).

I guess you might not be able to implement the following on the Vertex or Integral 2 due to the memory being fully used... but if the AVR's Standby mode can be detected, maybe you could add the option to adapt the audio part of the EDID (simply report the display's EDID) based on the AVR's power mode on the more recent devices?

Just an idea to take this situation into account if possible.

Rgds,

W.


It's all about RxSense, if AVR in standby is detected as "Connected but in stand by" then its audio or video specs are not mixed.
So Vertex already does what you are proposing here and it does it since a very long time


There is an audio flag called "NATIVE" that does exactly that, when AVR is "Connected but in standby", it takes the best of the active sink, so it will take the best of the other sink (in most cases a stereo TV).
when AVR turns ON, NATIVE will take the best of available sink, now it will take the Audio specs from AVR.
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.

Last edited by HDfury; 05-19-2019 at 08:05 AM.
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post #4355 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
It's all about RxSense, if AVR in standby is detected as "Connected but in stand by" then its audio or video specs are not mixed.
So Vertex already does what you are proposing here and it does it since a very long time


There is an audio flag called "NATIVE" that does exactly that, when AVR is "Connected but in standby", it takes the best of the active sink, so it will take the best of the other sink (in most cases a stereo TV).
when AVR turns ON, NATIVE will take the best of available sink, now it will take the Audio specs from AVR.
Sorry, my bad. I had replaced my Vertex with the new Diva that doesn't have a Native checkbox. And I didn't think to try setting the Audio option to one of the TX0/TX1 checkboxes that seem to do the same as the Native would in the Vertex. When I did mark the appropriate TX box and my Denon AVR turned ON, I get Atmos audio from my AVR. With the AVR in Standby Mode and set to HDMI Pass through, I get DD core audio signal sent to and output from my TV.

Swapped out Diva and reconnected Vertex.
Vertex: Automix with Native audio checkbox set.
Denon AVR: HDMI Pass Through Enabled.

With Denon AVR turned ON, Atmos Audio from AVR. TV unable to process TrueHD/Atmos signal.
With Denon AVR in Standby Mode, audio is output from TV. Panasonic UB820 player reports DD output but does not specify if it is DD 2.0 or 5.1.
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Last edited by claw; 05-19-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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post #4356 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Here: if AVR is OFF and TV is ON, and you try to play HD AUDIO, then for sure TV cannot understand HD audio.
So, you want to say that we can`t hear sound on TV when playing files with HD Audio stream from player and when AVR is OFF?
For me it is two different options: send HD Audio and play HD Audio ...

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)

Last edited by ultrasilent; 05-19-2019 at 03:58 PM.
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post #4357 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
There is an audio flag called "NATIVE" that does exactly that, when AVR is "Connected but in standby", it takes the best of the active sink, so it will take the best of the other sink (in most cases a stereo TV).
when AVR turns ON, NATIVE will take the best of available sink, now it will take the Audio specs from AVR.
Quote:
NATIVE flag gives best possible Audio from any connected, TOP MAX flag copy exact AUDIO specs from device at TOP OUTPUT.
Discussing same scenario, do we have any difference in such variations?

1. native flag only

2. top max flag only

3. both flags marked

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4358 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
but does not specify if it is DD 2.0 or 5.1.
Most modern TV`s can pass through 5.1 bitstream, so we have 5.1 from source than...

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4359 of 4440 Old 05-19-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
So, you want to say that we can`t hear sound on TV when playing files with HD Audio stream from player and when AVR is OFF?
For me it is two different options: send HD Audio and play HD Audio ...
So, you want to say that we can`t hear sound on TV when playing files with HD Audio stream from player and when AVR is OFF?

That is correct. If the player is sending HD audio, and your TV does not support it, you won't get any sound from the TV. The Vertex can't convert HD audio to DD, nor can it extract a core DD layer to send to the TV.

Did you read my post directly above? With Automix and Native audio flag:

With my Denon turned off to Standby Mode, my player sees that HD audio is not supported by my TV and sends DD that is passed through the AVR to my TV.
With my Denon turned ON, my player sees that HD audio is supported and sends HD audio. The HD audio will still be forwarded to the TV (unless I disable audio to the output) but it won't understand how to process it.

If you are playing files instead of discs, depending on your player, you might have to manually select the DD audio track.
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Last edited by claw; 05-19-2019 at 09:45 PM.
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post #4360 of 4440 Old 05-20-2019, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Discussing same scenario, do we have any difference in such variations?

1. native flag only

2. top max flag only

3. both flags marked
1. Native takes best of available sink, if one sink is off then its specs won't be mixed > that's for ex the settings for someone that does not always have his AVR on when TV is on
2. TOP MAX always takes audio specs from device at TOP OUT, usually this is the settings for someone who always play sound on AVR but that AVR is older or not 4K/HDR or DV capable, so it is connected at top out.
3. you cannot have 2 AUDIO flags, so such condition is not possible.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4361 of 4440 Old 05-20-2019, 10:04 AM
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@HDfury :

Eagerly awaiting my Vertex2’s arrival in June, so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about it before its arrival. Since Vertex2 manual isn’t available to download yet, I was wondering if you could help answer the following:

Can you please confirm that Vertex 2 completely strips all 4k/HDR/Dolby Vision video metadata flags for its HDMI audio port and downgrades HDCP 2.2 content from UHD sources to work with legacy SSPs that have HDMI ver 1.3 (which should correspond to HDCP ver 1.4)?

I have been having nothing but HDMI audio issues with my Cambridge Audio CXUHD 4k player and my Krell EV707 SSP. About 90% of the time when I play a movie disc I get “Waiting for Audio” on the SSP’s screen, but 4k/HDR video correctly displays on my Sony 940E TV). Since my 4k player has dual HDMI ports, it seems there is a constant EDID/HDCP handshake issue between the 4k player and the SSP that stops HDMI audio to completely work. Most likely this is a design flaw by Cambridge Audio in that it doesn’t correctly downgrade the UHD EDID/HDCP signal to correlate with older HDMI ver 1.3/HDCP ver 1.4 that my SSP has.

Thank you - I appreciate all of your hard work, stellar products and continued support!
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post #4362 of 4440 Old 05-20-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
@HDfury:

Eagerly awaiting my Vertex2’s arrival in June, so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about it before its arrival. Since Vertex2 manual isn’t available to download yet, I was wondering if you could help answer the following:

Can you please confirm that Vertex 2 completely strips all 4k/HDR/Dolby Vision video metadata flags for its HDMI audio port and downgrades HDCP 2.2 content from UHD sources to work with legacy SSPs that have HDMI ver 1.3 (which should correspond to HDCP ver 1.4)?

I have been having nothing but HDMI audio issues with my Cambridge Audio CXUHD 4k player and my Krell EV707 SSP. About 90% of the time when I play a movie disc I get “Waiting for Audio” on the SSP’s screen, but 4k/HDR video correctly displays on my Sony 940E TV). Since my 4k player has dual HDMI ports, it seems there is a constant EDID/HDCP handshake issue between the 4k player and the SSP that stops HDMI audio to completely work. Most likely this is a design flaw by Cambridge Audio in that it doesn’t correctly downgrade the UHD EDID/HDCP signal to correlate with older HDMI ver 1.3/HDCP ver 1.4 that my SSP has.

Thank you - I appreciate all of your hard work, stellar products and continued support!

Yes it does that, the audio out is 720p or 1080p user selectable, no hdcp/hdr/dv of any kind on it.
However, this is not enough to ensure compatibility, maybe your sound system have audio format limitations or transmission protocol variations compared to modern sources, so it's not that easy to say.
Also when coupled with Sony TV, new issues can occur, especially if it's an android TV, but Vertex2 will have the hardware capabilities to handle all that, yet it might takes a couple of updates to get everything working perfectly.
so as long as you are willing to update a few times and try a few things, I'm confident we will get you working (in case it does not work straight out of the box, of course)
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Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4363 of 4440 Old 05-20-2019, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Yes it does that, the audio out is 720p or 1080p user selectable, no hdcp/hdr/dv of any kind on it.
However, this is not enough to ensure compatibility, maybe your sound system have audio format limitations or transmission protocol variations compared to modern sources, so it's not that easy to say.
Also when coupled with Sony TV, new issues can occur, especially if it's an android TV, but Vertex2 will have the hardware capabilities to handle all that, yet it might takes a couple of updates to get everything working perfectly.
so as long as you are willing to update a few times and try a few things, I'm confident we will get you working (in case it does not work straight out of the box, of course)
Thank you for the reply and insight @HDfury !

It's no surprise that I like and enjoy every equipment piece in my HT setup, and by some accounts, a few of them could be considered reference level, thus I'm not willing to easily replace them only because HDMI doesn't play nice.

Therefore I'm confident that Vertex 2 (especially given your dedicated top notch tech support) will ensure every single one will play nice with each other!

Thanks again - be blessed!
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post #4364 of 4440 Old 05-21-2019, 02:30 PM
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Yes it does that, the audio out is 720p or 1080p user selectable, no hdcp/hdr/dv of any kind on it.
Can Vertex do the same as well on TOP output?

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4365 of 4440 Old 05-21-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Can Vertex do the same as well on TOP output?

No, top out on vertex can be either 4K or 1080p (or whatever is input), if incoming signal is DV, then there is DV, you can block HDR if you want, but not per output, you block all HDR or you block none and of course there is hdcp unless you have special firmware to handle that.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4366 of 4440 Old 05-22-2019, 12:21 AM
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Updated my Vertex yesterday to hide AppleTV variable HDR metadata from blanking my projector, thanks, works well.

I was also trying to use the OSD mask setup to mask variable aspect ratio movies for my 2.35:1 screen. I realised the mask is backwards for this purpose, is there some way to invert the mask?

If this is not a feature, could it be added? I heard many times that the Vertex is full but it seems to me a simple extension of the OSD mask level from 1-7 to 0-15 and the extra bit could invert the mask, there must be space to do that, hopefully. Otherwise an invert check box maybe but that's probably much more to add with settings etc.

While I can use the projector to mask, it's settings are buried deep and not directly accessible from the remote. The Vertex is much better designed with direct access to discrete OSD mask on/off IR commands that I can use in macros.

Maybe for future products several masks would be useful for different aspect ratios and perhaps for it's original purpose blocking tickers and logos/bugs combining multiple masks.

Just a thought.
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post #4367 of 4440 Old 05-22-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
Updated my Vertex yesterday to hide AppleTV variable HDR metadata from blanking my projector, thanks, works well.

I was also trying to use the OSD mask setup to mask variable aspect ratio movies for my 2.35:1 screen. I realised the mask is backwards for this purpose, is there some way to invert the mask?

If this is not a feature, could it be added? I heard many times that the Vertex is full but it seems to me a simple extension of the OSD mask level from 1-7 to 0-15 and the extra bit could invert the mask, there must be space to do that, hopefully. Otherwise an invert check box maybe but that's probably much more to add with settings etc.

While I can use the projector to mask, it's settings are buried deep and not directly accessible from the remote. The Vertex is much better designed with direct access to discrete OSD mask on/off IR commands that I can use in macros.

Maybe for future products several masks would be useful for different aspect ratios and perhaps for it's original purpose blocking tickers and logos/bugs combining multiple masks.

Just a thought.

Hi Andre,


We can add that to new generation hardware as they have plenty of memory available, but not on Vertex/Integral2, those 2 are full without any bytes of free memory left.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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post #4368 of 4440 Old 05-22-2019, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Hi Andre,


We can add that to new generation hardware as they have plenty of memory available, but not on Vertex/Integral2, those 2 are full without any bytes of free memory left.
I thought it would be a no go for the current hardware but doesn't hurt to ask, shame, it's so close.

I'll have to find another way, really it's a failing of the JVC projector, associating mask memories to lens memories would seem to be a really obvious thing to do but then if they had fixed Gamma D in firmware or made it customisable I wouldn't need a Vertex at all!

Thanks
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post #4369 of 4440 Old 05-23-2019, 02:00 PM
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Come back to my problem with HD Audio: playback of HD Audio and DTS streams.

Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)

scenario 1: Automix -Native check box
on TV input 4 (AVR OFF) - both files only PCM, no bitstream

scenario 2: Automix -Native check box
on TV input 4 + AVR ON - both files only PCM, no bitstream

scenario 1: Automix -TOP Max check box
on TV input 4 (AVR OFF) - bitstream, but no sound from HD Audio file

scenario 2: Automix -TOP Max check box
on TV input 4 + AVR ON - bitstream

TOP Max working properly but can`t listen HD Audio files with core audio on TV, so wrong mode for this scenario

Native NOT working properly, sending PCM instead of bitstream (logs attached).

Please advise.

scenario 3:
on TV input 1 (AVR ON and OFF) - no problems with sound-bitstream, but no HDR because of old AVR.

How I can get core audio from HD Audio file when watch HDR on TV input 4 without changing Vertex settings 10 times per day?
Attached Files
File Type: txt HD Audio to PCM - native to AVR.txt (7.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: txt HD Audio to PCM - native to TV.txt (7.2 KB, 5 views)

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4370 of 4440 Old 05-23-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
1. Native takes best of available sink, if one sink is off then its specs won't be mixed > that's for ex the settings for someone that does not always have his AVR on when TV is on
Native doesn`t work properly with 4K HDR TV set. No bitstream, PCM only.

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4371 of 4440 Old 05-24-2019, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Come back to my problem with HD Audio: playback of HD Audio and DTS streams.

Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)

scenario 1: Automix -Native check box
on TV input 4 (AVR OFF) - both files only PCM, no bitstream

scenario 2: Automix -Native check box
on TV input 4 + AVR ON - both files only PCM, no bitstream

scenario 1: Automix -TOP Max check box
on TV input 4 (AVR OFF) - bitstream, but no sound from HD Audio file

scenario 2: Automix -TOP Max check box
on TV input 4 + AVR ON - bitstream

TOP Max working properly but can`t listen HD Audio files with core audio on TV, so wrong mode for this scenario

Native NOT working properly, sending PCM instead of bitstream (logs attached).

Please advise.

scenario 3:
on TV input 1 (AVR ON and OFF) - no problems with sound-bitstream, but no HDR because of old AVR.

How I can get core audio from HD Audio file when watch HDR on TV input 4 without changing Vertex settings 10 times per day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Native doesn`t work properly with 4K HDR TV set. No bitstream, PCM only.

All that make little sense:
You describe setup like if AVR is at bot out, while it is at top out.
You talk about Native from this or from that but in your config your AVR is up all the time, NATIVE works based on sink ON/OFF, how do you want it to change anything if your AVR is always ON ?
You have MUTEBOT AUDIO activated in both config, so how can TV at bot out get any sound ? it cannot !


finally your AVR have issue mixing EDID as outlined previously, it is reporting 1080p 8b capabilities in this config, which is prolly wrong since you don't provide link to where we initially deciphered its edid and showed you the flaw so I can't remember exactly right now, but in all case, you have custom scaling up to 12b which doesn't match.


Bottom line is this: if you want NATIVE audio to work (best audio from available sink), then AVR must be turned OFF if you don't want its audio capabilities to be mixed. if you think it's off already, then it's not really off, it prolly have passthru activated or such thing > so you need to check AVR option to have real STANDBY/OFF mode and not kind of always pass thru.


Last but not least, you are running an outdated firmware on your unit.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.

Last edited by HDfury; 05-24-2019 at 09:08 AM.
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post #4372 of 4440 Old 05-24-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
1. You describe setup like if AVR is at bot out, while it is at top out.
2. You talk about Native from this or from that but in your config your AVR is up all the time, NATIVE works based on sink ON/OFF, how do you want it to change anything if your AVR is always ON ?
3. You have MUTEBOT AUDIO activated in both config, so how can TV at bot out get any sound ? it cannot !


4. finally your AVR have issue mixing EDID as outlined previously, it is reporting 1080p 8b capabilities in this config, which is prolly wrong since you don't provide link to where we initially deciphered its edid and showed you the flaw so I can't remember exactly right now, but in all case, you have custom scaling up to 12b which doesn't match.


5. Bottom line is this: if you want NATIVE audio to work (best audio from available sink), then AVR must be turned OFF if you don't want its audio capabilities to be mixed. if you think it's off already, then it's not really off, it prolly have passthru activated or such thing > so you need to check AVR option to have real STANDBY/OFF mode and not kind of always pass thru.
.
1. my setup in my signature, I described only scenario (AVR ON or OFF from AVR remote).

2. then why I have PCM on AVR with Native active? both active sinks support at least core from HD Audio...

3. don`t pay attention to that, I just played with MUTE box (may be I forgot to uncheck this before config export). As you know MUTE box doesn`t have any influence on audio signal output.

4. I find out that this is not AVR issue, it is TV setting: TV have two settings for 4k - full bandwidth and standard. I have to choose standard on Input 1 because my 1080p sources connected to AVR don`t like other option in TV settings. But this is another thing, we are not discussing TV Input 1 problem at the moment. AVR sending limited bandwidth capability of Input 1 and source didn`t send 4k to input 1. But this not a problem at the moment.

5. that`s make no sense. all my 1080p sources are connected to AVR and it is silly to turn off Pass through (nobody like to keep AVR all the time ON when you start any 1080p source).

Bottom line: NATIVE audio to work (best audio from available sink) we should have only one output from Vertex activated (only one device ON, connected to Vertex outputs)?
Why I have PCM audio in my case?

This scenario impossible with Vertex:
HD Audio file
top output AVR in pass through
bot output 4k TV
when AVR ON - HD audio
when AVR OFF - core audio from HD Audio on TV speakers
????

So we don`t have option in Vertex FW to check both outputs and automatically send to source EDID which shows MAX Video and Max audio capability, according to ALGO - max video + max audio?
this ALGO doesn` t work correctly on Vertex?
what does mean MAX Audio ? MAX Audio of one best or max audio supported by both? in my case any of them doesn`t work...

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)

Last edited by ultrasilent; 05-24-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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post #4373 of 4440 Old 05-24-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
NATIVE flag gives best possible Audio from any connected

Native takes best of available sink, if one sink is off then its specs won't be mixed > that's for ex the settings for someone that does not always have his AVR on when TV is on
I didn`t got how Native is working. please explain...

Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)

scenario 1:
playing HD Audio file
AVR ON
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

scenario 2:
playing HD Audio file
AVR OFF (passthrough activated)
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

What audio should be sent from source in both scenarios, assuming that both sinks active (according to your explanation)?

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4374 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
1. my setup in my signature, I described only scenario (AVR ON or OFF from AVR remote).

2. then why I have PCM on AVR with Native active? both active sinks support at least core from HD Audio...

3. don`t pay attention to that, I just played with MUTE box (may be I forgot to uncheck this before config export). As you know MUTE box doesn`t have any influence on audio signal output.

4. I find out that this is not AVR issue, it is TV setting: TV have two settings for 4k - full bandwidth and standard. I have to choose standard on Input 1 because my 1080p sources connected to AVR don`t like other option in TV settings. But this is another thing, we are not discussing TV Input 1 problem at the moment. AVR sending limited bandwidth capability of Input 1 and source didn`t send 4k to input 1. But this not a problem at the moment.

5. that`s make no sense. all my 1080p sources are connected to AVR and it is silly to turn off Pass through (nobody like to keep AVR all the time ON when you start any 1080p source).

Bottom line: NATIVE audio to work (best audio from available sink) we should have only one output from Vertex activated (only one device ON, connected to Vertex outputs)?
Why I have PCM audio in my case?

This scenario impossible with Vertex:
HD Audio file
top output AVR in pass through
bot output 4k TV
when AVR ON - HD audio
when AVR OFF - core audio from HD Audio on TV speakers
????

So we don`t have option in Vertex FW to check both outputs and automatically send to source EDID which shows MAX Video and Max audio capability, according to ALGO - max video + max audio?
this ALGO doesn` t work correctly on Vertex?
what does mean MAX Audio ? MAX Audio of one best or max audio supported by both? in my case any of them doesn`t work...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
I didn`t got how Native is working. please explain...

Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)

scenario 1:
playing HD Audio file
AVR ON
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

scenario 2:
playing HD Audio file
AVR OFF (passthrough activated)
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

What audio should be sent from source in both scenarios, assuming that both sinks active (according to your explanation)?



Stop throwing BS here please, you already have several page of BS posted previously, don't start again.
Just look at VERTEX OLED and TURN OFF YOUR AVR, do you see "CONNECTED BUT STANDBY" on VERTEX OLED ? if yes, NATIVE will work, if NO NATIVE won't work and that means your AVR is not really in standby or OFF (pass thru or some other option activated on it)

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.

Last edited by HDfury; 05-25-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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post #4375 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 08:36 AM
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Ok. Native doesn`t work in my case. No problem. I need my AVR in pass through.

scenario 1:
playing HD Audio file
AVR ON
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

scenario 2:
playing HD Audio file
AVR OFF (passthrough activated)
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

What audio should be normally sent from source in both scenarios, assuming that both sinks active (according to your explanation)?

Should ALGO - max video, max audio ask Max Audio (HD Audio) from source?

How can I get (what settings in Vertex) core audio on TV from source in scenario 2?

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4376 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
scenario 1:
playing HD Audio file
AVR ON
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

scenario 2:
playing HD Audio file
AVR OFF (passthrough activated)
TV switched on Input 4
Vertex : ALGO - max video, max audio, Native checked

What audio should be normally sent from source in both scenarios, assuming that both sinks active (according to your explanation)?

Should ALGO - max video, max audio ask Max Audio (HD Audio) from source?

How can I get (what settings in Vertex) core audio on TV from source in scenario 2?

1. Since AVR is not detected as OFF, you will get up to AVR max audio cap in both case. It's pretty simple to understand, if sink is OFF, capabilities are not mixed, if sink is ON, capabilities are mixed) in your case, AVR is always ON, so AVR audio capabilities are always mixed.
2. No, Algo will ask STEREO if your TV is STEREO and AVR is OFF, but since your AVR is ON, then it's always AVR audio capabilities that will be presented, our device does not ASK anything, it just present to the source a sum up of the capabilities (and EDID that is) based on devices that are ON at output and source will decide what to the send, so you can very much adjust sound output at source settings to send for AVR or TV manually.
3. Just turn your AVR OFF or change source audio settings.


All that was already answered previously. Hope you will get it one day.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.

Last edited by HDfury; 05-25-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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post #4377 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
1. Since AVR is not detected as OFF, you will get up to AVR max audio cap in both case. It's pretty simple to understand, if sink is OFF, capabilities are not mixed, if sink is ON, capabilities are mixed) in your case, AVR is always ON, so AVR audio capabilities are always mixed.
2. No, Algo will ask STEREO if your TV is STEREO and AVR is OFF, but since your AVR is ON, then it's always AVR audio capabilities that will be presented, our device does not ASK anything, it just present to the source a sum up of the capabilities (and EDID that is) based on devices that are ON at output and source will decide what to the send, so you can very much adjust sound output at source settings to send for AVR or TV manually.
3. Just turn your AVR OFF or change source audio settings.
1. So, why I got PCM in both cases (my last logs attached)? But when I checked TOP Max box I can get HD Audio on AVR...

I didn`t understand: what is purpose of Native box, assuming that with only one sink we will have no mixing anyway, because ALGO doesn`t work as well?

2 and 3. I can disconnect AVR from power source when I need core audio on TV speakers, no problems......
Attached Files
File Type: txt HD Audio to PCM - native to AVR.txt (7.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: txt HD Audio to PCM - native to TV.txt (7.2 KB, 3 views)

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4378 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
All that was already answered previously. Hope you will get it one day.
Because nobody will read 146 pages of different setups discussions. Better place for this info - this thread first post or Vertex manual.

from manual:
Quote:
[Native]: Force the created automix EDID to present the setup native sound capabilities.
from you:
Quote:
Just look at VERTEX OLED and TURN OFF YOUR AVR, do you see "CONNECTED BUT STANDBY" on VERTEX OLED ? if yes, NATIVE will work, if NO NATIVE won't work and that means your AVR is not really in standby or OFF
What you mean by "Native will not work"?
A I understand Native is mixing both sinks capabilities (or just use alone sink capability) according to Vertex manual and creates max audio EDID.

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4379 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Algo will ask STEREO if your TV is STEREO and AVR is OFF, but since your AVR is ON, then it's always AVR audio capabilities that will be presented
As you told before, ALGO mode will not be activated when only one sink at output.
If we have sink at BOT output ONLY and ALGO - TOP output priority then which audio capabilities will form EDID?

Zidoo X9S (1.4.16.), Vertex FW 1.36.1.41,
Himedia Q10 Pro (2.0.4) > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 4)
Nvidia Shield Android TV (7.1.0.) 2015 16Gb+ 1TB HDD>6ft copper >----> 6ft copper > Yamaha RX-A2020 HDMI 1.4 > SONY X9405C HDR TV (HDMI 1)
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post #4380 of 4440 Old 05-25-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
1. So, why I got PCM in both cases (my last logs attached)? But when I checked TOP Max box I can get HD Audio on AVR...

I didn`t understand: what is purpose of Native box, assuming that with only one sink we will have no mixing anyway, because ALGO doesn`t work as well?

2 and 3. I can disconnect AVR from power source when I need core audio on TV speakers, no problems......

If you only have ONE DEVICE AT OUTPUT then THERE IS NO NEED TO MIX ANYTHING or use any ALGO, having only one sink at output is same as using COPY SINK EDID, you can just force some flags in that case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Because nobody will read 146 pages of different setups discussions. Better place for this info - this thread first post or Vertex manual.

from manual:


from you:


What you mean by "Native will not work"?
A I understand Native is mixing both sinks capabilities (or just use alone sink capability) according to Vertex manual and creates max audio EDID.

I was talking about answer given to you, I have been repeating the same things over and over again.


I wrote NATIVE WILL NOT WORK in mixing TV AUDIO CAP only if AVR is always ON. Do not put things out of CONTEXT, just read the sentence fully and quote it fully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
As you told before, ALGO mode will not be activated when only one sink at output.
If we have sink at BOT output ONLY and ALGO - TOP output priority then which audio capabilities will form EDID?

If only one sink, then mixed EDID = SINK EDID + any flag set.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.
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