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post #2071 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post
Hello,

I have a Vertex since 2 days and had some problems with the latest firmware 1.13 and 1.14. With version 1.12 everything is working as supposed.

My setup is as follows:

IN0: Oppo BDP-93
IN1: Yamaha DSP-Z7 (AVR) (with additional devices on the inputs)

OUT0: eecolor --> TV (Panasonic VT60)
OUT1: TV

After flashing the firmware I did the RST + 2 x INP trick.

As I said with FW 1.12 all is fine. With FW1.13 and FW1.14 I have the following problem. Playing 1080p24 movies with the Oppo and then hit the stop button the main menu will pop is in 1080p50. After that I have no picture at all from all sources. I had to apply several resets until the picture show up again, but the problem come up as soon as the output from the Oppo change from 1080p24 to 1080p50.

I figured out with the help of the GUI, once the Oppo menu with 1080p50 is shown the HDCP version in the TX0 info panel is gone. For whatever reason the HDCP status of the Vertex output will change. This is not happen with FW1.12.

BTW, it is not related to the HDCP settings in the GUI

Attached some pictures of the GUI that shows the issue before and after playing the movie as well as menu screen and my config file. I hope You can help me with problem...

(Sorry if the pictures are not in the right sequence, are was not able to sort them when uploading)


Thanks a lot and best regards
Hi ! Can you please confirm if you have same issue using AUTOSCALING instead of CUSTOM SCALING. (asked previously)
Please also confirm if issue is same when Pana TV VT60 is ON and running.
Please also confirm if issue is same when no AVR at input.
Finally can you post a link to what you call "eecolor"

Thank you.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 02-16-2018 at 08:22 AM.
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post #2072 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Hello guys,

With JVC macro done, Vertex memory is nearly full already.
If we want to offer more macro options or add some new features, we might need to drop some existing features.

Below is a list of features rarely used that we could eventually drop in order to save Vertex memory for others tasks.

Please let us know, which one you would not bother seeing it wiped away.

- HDMI forum VSIF
- HDMI vendor specific infoframe
- SPD infoframe
- Reverse OLED colors
- OSD position

Any other options that appears useless to you, please let us know.
Personally, I could lose all of these except OSD position which can be useful depending on source/content (for example to avoid conflict with a player's or display's OSD), if that meant we could free up some space for other tasks.

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post #2073 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Personally, I could lose all of these except OSD position which can be useful depending on source/content (for example to avoid conflict with a player's or display's OSD), if that meant we could free up some space for other tasks.
Ok, please guys confirm as well that the below are useless to you and we can wipe it to save memory for new features:

- HDMI forum VSIF
- HDMI vendor specific infoframe
- Reverse OLED colors


PS: SPD infoframe, we need to keep, if we drop it, we lose source name.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 02-16-2018 at 08:47 AM.
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post #2074 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 09:52 AM
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Quick question for Vertex and JVC projector. Trying to automate my setup best I can but not looking to do the extra crazy macro settings in the vertex for custom curves. I am simply trying to get the Vertex to tell the JVC (via RS232) to switch between 2 user modes (one for HD rec709 and one for HDR). I have an ATV4 in to Vertex then out to OPPO to JVC x770. I have it mostly working in that I have set the JVC Macro Auto tab in the Vertex to go to USER 1 for everything in the OSD Name: SDR-XXXX. I have it go to USER 2 for everything in the OSD Name: HDR10-XXXX.

Do I enable JVC Macro control to "send on every sync"? I have HDR10 Mode set to Automatic (default) presumably because I am not using the Macro custom. Sync Delay I have set at 15 sec.

Now, MOST of the time it works, however I get the 15 sec of JVC switching from SDR to HDR from ATV (have Dynamic Range set to match), then after it shows up on screen, the OSD from Vertex shows correctly but then another few (to 10 sec) the JVC OSD name shows up (ie HDR10-DC4k). THEN I get the auto switch from USER 1 to USER 2. Then sometimes, I get a blank screen after that presumably due to vertex getting some other "reading" and then the movie plays ok. Some of the time I don't get the auto switch modes likely due to delay sync of 15 MAYBE being too short.

Bottom line, at this time, I am not using the JVC custom tab...just want a simple SDR vs HDR switch based on what is reported by the OSD which likely comes from the source (ATV).

Any thoughts as to how I can improve this and make it more reliable?
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post #2075 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Quick question for Vertex and JVC projector. Trying to automate my setup best I can but not looking to do the extra crazy macro settings in the vertex for custom curves. I am simply trying to get the Vertex to tell the JVC (via RS232) to switch between 2 user modes (one for HD rec709 and one for HDR). I have an ATV4 in to Vertex then out to OPPO to JVC x770. I have it mostly working in that I have set the JVC Macro Auto tab in the Vertex to go to USER 1 for everything in the OSD Name: SDR-XXXX. I have it go to USER 2 for everything in the OSD Name: HDR10-XXXX.

Do I enable JVC Macro control to "send on every sync"? I have HDR10 Mode set to Automatic (default) presumably because I am not using the Macro custom. Sync Delay I have set at 15 sec.

Now, MOST of the time it works, however I get the 15 sec of JVC switching from SDR to HDR from ATV (have Dynamic Range set to match), then after it shows up on screen, the OSD from Vertex shows correctly but then another few (to 10 sec) the JVC OSD name shows up (ie HDR10-DC4k). THEN I get the auto switch from USER 1 to USER 2. Then sometimes, I get a blank screen after that presumably due to vertex getting some other "reading" and then the movie plays ok. Some of the time I don't get the auto switch modes likely due to delay sync of 15 MAYBE being too short.

Bottom line, at this time, I am not using the JVC custom tab...just want a simple SDR vs HDR switch based on what is reported by the OSD which likely comes from the source (ATV).

Any thoughts as to how I can improve this and make it more reliable?
Everything seems correct except the blank screen at the end, after the calibration switch, unless it's during the calibration switch. It should go like this: new signal detected, 15-20s black screen (HDMI resync), OSD appears, Calibration name appears, 3-5 seconds black screen when the calibration switches, movie plays. Unchecking "send on every sync" suppresses the second (short) black screen when the correct calibration is already active.

To make sure all is correct:
Instead of Automatic mode, select "Ignore Metadata" if you have only one HDR10 calibration and set HDR10-Main to USER2 (your HDR calibration). That will save unnecessary switches/black screens.
Use 20 secs (default) for the delay and only try to reduce it once everything works as you want. 18secs is what most people should be able to get. 15s is too short for many depending on content.
Use "send on every sync" (default) until everything works as you want, then try to uncheck it and see if it still works.

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post #2076 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
As long as you do not run both displays at the same time, you can get 4K/HDR/DV to OLED and 1080p to the other (when OLED is up: 4K/HDR/DV, when PJ is up: 1080p, both at the same time: SDR for both), if you run both display at the same time, then if one is playing DV or HDR, the 1080p projector, won't be able to display this correctly (unless it support DV/HDR which i doubt). So MAX SPECS for each individually and compromise when both are ON (SDR)

For DD+/Atmos over ARC, yes it's possible assuming the following:

- You have a HDMI/ARC cable capable of supporting 192khz audio (very hard to find, as hard as finding good 600MHz working cables)
- You have optical S/PDIF cable capable of supporting 192khz
- Your AVR is capable of supporting 192khz through its S/PDIF input.

If your setup does not meet those requirements, then please wait for ARC-Key, special design we are trying to complete in order to extract ATMOS/DD+ from modern TV and forward to any AVR via a 720p stream (a bit similar to what AVR-Key is doing for any modern sources and any AVR)
Thanks for the info! Very helpful. Since the projector screen comes down in front of the TV, it will always be one or the other. I see you just got Vertex in Logitech's device library which is awesome since I use a Hub and Ultimate One to control my Home Theater. So I would be using the HDFury Vertex as a splitter in my case with both outputs set to auto-detect? As long as I use one at a time, I will get that eache's max specs (which will be the case).

Just a quick followup question regarding ARC.

Currently, I have a two 2.0b high speed, Category 2 Certified,18 Gbps / 600 MHz Refresh Rated, HDMI cables (these) which are run from TV and Projector through the ceiling/walls, down to my basement, and back up to the AVR in the corner of the room. The AVR is a Marantz SR-6011. It currently does lets me send DD+/Atmos from my 65B7AOLED to my AVR without issues.

So my question is, would I have to run an optical S/PDIF cable as well from the TV to the HDFury Vertex? If so, why and how? Since only Audio is being returned in ARC, it seems I should only need the current HDMI to go into 1 of the HDFury's output, and then another HDMI/ARC cable capable of supporting 192khz audio like the one linked above (albiet shorter), from the HDFury to the AVR?

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |

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post #2077 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 11:49 AM
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@HDfury : can you please tell me if the Vertex will solve my case?

I have a 4K HDR media player and 4K OLED TVv and one Wireless Headphone device, that is HDMI 1.4b for headphone sound (supports Atmos etc.).

Could I use the vertex to output:

1x 4K HDR signal

and

1x 1080p SDR signal with HD audio at the same time?


Basically I have a HDMI 1.4b device (so 4K 30fps but without HDR) that Supports Atmos etc., but it doesnt support passthrough of 4K HDR.

It seems like "AVR Key 18Gbps" is what I need? I already own HDfury 4k Linker. Can the 4k linker do the same thing as the AVR key 18gbps?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2078 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Hi ! Can you please confirm if you have same issue using AUTOSCALING instead of CUSTOM SCALING. (asked previously)
Please also confirm if issue is same when Pana TV VT60 is ON and running.
Please also confirm if issue is same when no AVR at input.
Finally can you post a link to what you call "eecolor"

Thank you.

Hello HDfury,

thank You for the kind reply and please forgive me if I didn't reply in time.
I live in Europe and work during daytime, so there is a quite large timegap.


Regarding my setup I have to be more clear. Both outputs of the Vertex are connected to the Panasonic VT60, different HDMI inputs of course.
On output0 is just the eecolor in between.
The reason for my setup is that the Yamaha AVR and the eecolor don't support 3D. So when I watch 3D I connect the video source directly to the TV and for 2D all video run through the eeColor for color correction.


Back from work I did all the testings You asked for. All tests are with FW 1.13.

1) "Can you please confirm if you have same issue using AUTOSCALING instead of CUSTOM SCALING."
yes, the problem still excist. When stopping the video the output also changes to 12bit
which was not the case witch custom scaling. It stayed at 8bit as You could see on the pics of my 1st post.
(this is all with eeColor in the chain). Also with no scaling the problem excist.

2) "Please also confirm if issue is same when Pana TV VT60 is ON and running."
There is no problem when the TV is directly connected to the Vertex (without eeColor), even with custom scaling or with autoscale.
But as soon as I switch back to the HDMI input of the TV where the eeColor is in chain, the problem immediately occurs and screen went black.

3) "Please also confirm if issue is same when no AVR at input."
Also, the problem still excist. Seems that AVR is not related to the problem. All behaves as described in 1) and 2)

4) "Finally can you post a link to what you call "eecolor"
The eecolor is a 3DLUT Box. Probaply the most detailed specification You will find here:
http://www.displaycalibrations.com/eecolor_order.html


The problem seems to be related to eeColor, when the video frame rate changes and HDCP.
When the HDCP version is "gone" (when problem occurs) in the GUI and OLED, the copyright string stays 0.


thanks a lot for taking care and your patience.

S/W: LightSpace HCC, Calman 5, DisplayCal/ArgyllCMS
H/W: CR-100, I1Pro2, I1D3, eeColor, RB8 Generator
Tools: ControlCal, Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk
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post #2079 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 12:06 PM
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Also second scenario:

I want to play on Xbox 1 X at 4K 60fps HDR and record the gameplay on a 1080p 60fps SDR capture card.

Is the Vertex able to output the same console signal:

1x as 4K HDR 60fps and

1x as 1080p SDR 60fps?

Thanks for your answers in advance.
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post #2080 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
The guys @logitech Harmony sent an email to say the 100 IR codes have been added/corrected in Harmony DB.

Harmony users: Kinda please check !
Hi - I re-added the Vertex as a Harmony device and at least the codes I was looking for (customhdron and customhdroff) still don't appear. Perhaps the names have changed or something but I just wanted to let you know. Thanks.

Andy
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post #2081 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Brown01 View Post
Also second scenario:

I want to play on Xbox 1 X at 4K 60fps HDR and record the gameplay on a 1080p 60fps SDR capture card.

Is the Vertex able to output the same console signal:

1x as 4K HDR 60fps and

1x as 1080p SDR 60fps?

Thanks for your answers in advance.
As previously mentioned many times, the Vertex cannot convert HDR to SDR during down scaling. The capture card will get 1080p HDR.
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post #2082 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Thanks for the info! Very helpful. Since the projector screen comes down in front of the TV, it will always be one or the other. I see you just got Vertex in Logitech's device library which is awesome since I use a Hub and Ultimate One to control my Home Theater. So I would be using the HDFury Vertex as a splitter in my case with both outputs set to auto-detect? As long as I use one at a time, I will get that eache's max specs (which will be the case).

Just a quick followup question regarding ARC.

Currently, I have a two 2.0b high speed, Category 2 Certified,18 Gbps / 600 MHz Refresh Rated, HDMI cables (these) which are run from TV and Projector through the ceiling/walls, down to my basement, and back up to the AVR in the corner of the room. The AVR is a Marantz SR-6011. It currently does lets me send DD+/Atmos from my 65B7AOLED to my AVR without issues.

So my question is, would I have to run an optical S/PDIF cable as well from the TV to the HDFury Vertex? If so, why and how? Since only Audio is being returned in ARC, it seems I should only need the current HDMI to go into 1 of the HDFury's output, and then another HDMI/ARC cable capable of supporting 192khz audio like the one linked above (albiet shorter), from the HDFury to the AVR?
If you already have DD+/Atmos from TV to AVR using a HDMI cable from TV ARC input to AVR, then why not keeping it like that ?

When using Vertex, Vertex is getting DD+/atmos via HDMI cable from bottom output to your TV arc input (just like your AVR is getting it), once Vertex got it, it will output it via optical. So you need an optical jack to S/PDIF cable from Vertex to AVR. (hence that's why AVR need to support 192khz via optical input)

There is no device in the world taking DD+/ATMOS from TV ARC input and forward it back via HDMI, it doesn't exist because it's supposedly not possible. We are making one and it will be called ARC-Key
You must understand that ARC is only from TV ROOT to first downstream device. it cannot travels HDMI.

Vertex is doing half of this task, by getting DD+/ATMOS from TV ARC input. Vertex can only offer it as optical output. While ARC-Key will create a self generated black frame video stream at 720p/1080p and embed it to feed any AVR. (That's an other half currently done by AVR-Key)
Vertex cannot do the missing part that AVR-Key does and AVR-Key cannot do the missing part that Vertex does. So it needs a new device as it's "beyond" HDMI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Brown01 View Post
@HDfury : can you please tell me if the Vertex will solve my case?

I have a 4K HDR media player and 4K OLED TVv and one Wireless Headphone device, that is HDMI 1.4b for headphone sound (supports Atmos etc.).

Could I use the vertex to output:

1x 4K HDR signal

and

1x 1080p SDR signal with HD audio at the same time?


Basically I have a HDMI 1.4b device (so 4K 30fps but without HDR) that Supports Atmos etc., but it doesnt support passthrough of 4K HDR.

It seems like "AVR Key 18Gbps" is what I need? I already own HDfury 4k Linker. Can the 4k linker do the same thing as the AVR key 18gbps?

Thanks in advance!
If the purpose is to let 4K HDR working from SOURCE to DISPLAY at max possible specs and have full sound to your AVR, then you need AVR-Key. (Sound stream going to AVR have full AUDIO, but not video, only black frame, selft created 720P/1080p video stream.)
You can do the same task with Vertex (except audio stream will be 1080p always, video will be present but color will look weird)

So to connect your headphones to 4K HDR setup both AVR-Key or Vertex can work.

Linker cannot do that on it's own (only one output !), you would need to add Integral before Linker to do something similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post
Hello HDfury,

thank You for the kind reply and please forgive me if I didn't reply in time.
I live in Europe and work during daytime, so there is a quite large timegap.


Regarding my setup I have to be more clear. Both outputs of the Vertex are connected to the Panasonic VT60, different HDMI inputs of course.
On output0 is just the eecolor in between.
The reason for my setup is that the Yamaha AVR and the eecolor don't support 3D. So when I watch 3D I connect the video source directly to the TV and for 2D all video run through the eeColor for color correction.


Back from work I did all the testings You asked for. All tests are with FW 1.13.

1) "Can you please confirm if you have same issue using AUTOSCALING instead of CUSTOM SCALING."
yes, the problem still excist. When stopping the video the output also changes to 12bit
which was not the case witch custom scaling. It stayed at 8bit as You could see on the pics of my 1st post.
(this is all with eeColor in the chain). Also with no scaling the problem excist.

2) "Please also confirm if issue is same when Pana TV VT60 is ON and running."
There is no problem when the TV is directly connected to the Vertex (without eeColor), even with custom scaling or with autoscale.
But as soon as I switch back to the HDMI input of the TV where the eeColor is in chain, the problem immediately occurs and screen went black.

3) "Please also confirm if issue is same when no AVR at input."
Also, the problem still excist. Seems that AVR is not related to the problem. All behaves as described in 1) and 2)

4) "Finally can you post a link to what you call "eecolor"
The eecolor is a 3DLUT Box. Probaply the most detailed specification You will find here:
http://www.displaycalibrations.com/eecolor_order.html


The problem seems to be related to eeColor, when the video frame rate changes and HDCP.
When the HDCP version is "gone" (when problem occurs) in the GUI and OLED, the copyright string stays 0.


thanks a lot for taking care and your patience.
No problem for delay, i was just very curious about this issue. Now of course, the fact that both TX go to same TV may be play a role (or not) and may be that's what we need to check now to isolate issue down to eecolor for real.
Could you make a test with only one output going to eecolor and then to TV, other output disconnected, see if issue is the same or not.

Also, do you have a GoBlue ?

PS: Status indicator in GUI for combo trick cannot change until you repeat the trick of flash firmware again or import a config that have different configuration for it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Brown01 View Post
Also second scenario:

I want to play on Xbox 1 X at 4K 60fps HDR and record the gameplay on a 1080p 60fps SDR capture card.

Is the Vertex able to output the same console signal:

1x as 4K HDR 60fps and

1x as 1080p SDR 60fps?

Thanks for your answers in advance.
No, you need to add a HDR to SDR converter at Vertex output. Apparently the cheapest one now is Oppo 203 if it's confirmed. Otherwise Lumagen Radiance Pro.

If you do that with Vertex, you will have perfect stream for 4K/HDR but 1080p will still be HDR and then color will look weird. That's why you need to convert HDR to SDR so colors look good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerapn View Post
Hi - I re-added the Vertex as a Harmony device and at least the codes I was looking for (customhdron and customhdroff) still don't appear. Perhaps the names have changed or something but I just wanted to let you know. Thanks.

Andy
Ok will check it, pretty strange they took lot of time and finally confirmed they made it, but it's not all 100 apparently then.
They was supposed to add the exact same file you have in firmware package. (here in attachment, limited to 100 as per their requests)
Attached Files
File Type: txt vertex_ir_codes_Harmony_0x70_010918.txt (39.6 KB, 5 views)

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 02-16-2018 at 07:58 PM.
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post #2083 of 4511 Old 02-16-2018, 09:55 PM
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HDFury Vertex - Owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
If you already have DD+/Atmos from TV to AVR using a HDMI cable from TV ARC input to AVR, then why not keeping it like that ?

When using Vertex, Vertex is getting DD+/atmos via HDMI cable from bottom output to your TV arc input (just like your AVR is getting it), once Vertex got it, it will output it via optical. So you need an optical jack to S/PDIF cable from Vertex to AVR. (hence that's why AVR need to support 192khz via optical input)

There is no device in the world taking DD+/ATMOS from TV ARC input and forward it back via HDMI, it doesn't exist because it's supposedly not possible. We are making one and it will be called ARC-Key
You must understand that ARC is only from TV ROOT to first downstream device. it cannot travels HDMI.

Vertex is doing half of this task, by getting DD+/ATMOS from TV ARC input. Vertex can only offer it as optical output. While ARC-Key will create a self generated black frame video stream at 720p/1080p and embed it to feed any AVR. (That's an other half currently done by AVR-Key)
Vertex cannot do the missing part that AVR-Key does and AVR-Key cannot do the missing part that Vertex does. So it needs a new device as it's "beyond" HDMI.

EDIT: Please disregard below! Today i learned that my AVR has a zone 2 output which I can use to output to the projector and use Zone 1 for TV and ARC. so it seems my AVR is capable of doing what I’ve been needing this whole time. I can program my Logitech remote to use the AVR Zone 2 when using the projector.

==============================
The primary reason I’m considering a HDFury Vertex is to be able to have one output of the AVR go to both my projector and OLED 4K HDR TV depending on which I’m using (only would use one at any given time). Currently i have to go and switch the HDMI out of the AVR manually from the TVs HDMI to the Projectors HDMI. I would like whatever I’m using to just have it’s max specs showing automatically without the manual HDMI switch.

However, a primary concern is that if I did purchase a Vertex, it would be between the TV/Projector and AVR output. So, my ARC questions were to see how I could still get the same DD+/Atmos from TV to AVR with the Vertex in between. It sounds like the Vertex will accept the HDMI signal from the TV, and then I’ll just need to run an optical cable from the Vertex to the AVR in order to get the DD+/Atmos? If so that should be easy. The cable needed would be a Coaxial SPDIF (Vertex OUT) to Optical SPDIF (AVR IN), right?

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post #2084 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 12:01 AM
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@HDfury

well after spending over a week just to get the vertex to split a 4k signal to a 1080p projector and a 4ktv, and having it finally work, i took a couple of days off from all things av... tonight i settled in to enjoy a 4k dvd but instead of being entertained by an awesome vid i was greeted with this message on my 4k screen:



how is this possible? a few days of no use and it goes from working to this? so i pulled the vertex out of the chain and everything worked perfectly fine, the movie played flawlessly in full 4k hdr.

i suppose i could go through some more rounds of config files, resets, perhaps a couple of more combo tricks but, quite honestly, i'm out of gas on this, way too much work just to split a signal... i appreciate your earlier help trying to get it working for me, even tho it was more a workaround than the vertex actually working as it should, but sometimes you just have to say uncle.
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post #2085 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
No sorry, the show have been busy all days and nights ! We will send one unit to rtings who did initial Linker test, may be they will run same test and provide real external view on it.
I thought you were going to test it for me? Sounds like it might be a long while longer if you send to this other person and not even guaranteed he will test it.
Just trying to find out if the Vertex can keep 4:4:4 chroma when scaling 1080p RGB to 4k RGB at 60fps 8bit.
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post #2086 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
If you already have DD+/Atmos from TV to AVR using a HDMI cable from TV ARC input to AVR, then why not keeping it like that ?
If the purpose is to let 4K HDR working from SOURCE to DISPLAY at max possible specs and have full sound to your AVR, then you need AVR-Key. (Sound stream going to AVR have full AUDIO, but not video, only black frame, selft created 720P/1080p video stream.)
You can do the same task with Vertex (except audio stream will be 1080p always, video will be present but color will look weird)

So to connect your headphones to 4K HDR setup both AVR-Key or Vertex can work.
Thank you for the reply HDfury! I just ordered the AVR-Key for my wireless headphones. It looks like its the perfect device for my needs. (Full 4K HDR signal to the TV and extra HD Audio output to my wireless Headphones Sony MDR-HW700DS.

Few small question though,

1. the Vertex is able to output One 4K SDR 60fps signal as 1x 4K SDR 60fps and 1x 1080p SDR 60fps is that correct?

2. How high is the input lag created by the Vertex, 2-3 milliseconds?
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I have been away from this thread for a while. I have been busy checking out the new Oppo HDR Tone Mapping capability included in a recent Beta firmware update. It shows real promise once some clipping issues get resolved. The Tone Mapping also applies to any HDR source fed to the Oppo HDMI input, so I have it applied to Netflix and Amazon video streaming from an external player as well.

The reason I mention this is that I may no longer have any need for a Vertex HDR metadata override feature that we have been discussing. Not if the only input my LG OLED gets has already been mapped to SDR BT.2020 by my Oppo.
Thats good news about Oppo owners. I still believe the HDR override feature would be a big benefit for many users that don't own an Oppo player... like me ;-)

I also have to believe the universe of users of Vertex would find this feature very helpful.

My $0.02
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post #2088 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Ok, please guys confirm as well that the below are useless to you and we can wipe it to save memory for new features:

- HDMI forum VSIF
- HDMI vendor specific infoframe
- Reverse OLED colors


PS: SPD infoframe, we need to keep, if we drop it, we lose source name.
I tend to agree with Manni, those feature could be removed. But, where does the HDR metadate override sit? Will this also not be implemented?

It is surprising that we a now talking about ditching features. That implies no more new going forward.
One idea @HDfury , I know it's not ideal - but you guys might want to consider forking into 2 firmwares. One for JVC owners and one for the rest of us.

The video world is larger than JVC projectors ;-)
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post #2089 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Ok, please guys confirm as well that the below are useless to you and we can wipe it to save memory for new features:

- HDMI forum VSIF
- HDMI vendor specific infoframe
- Reverse OLED colors


PS: SPD infoframe, we need to keep, if we drop it, we lose source name.

As I understand it, vendor specific infoframe is needed to force DV mode when using with Calman calibration software.
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post #2090 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
No problem for delay, i was just very curious about this issue. Now of course, the fact that both TX go to same TV may be play a role (or not) and may be that's what we need to check now to isolate issue down to eecolor for real.
Could you make a test with only one output going to eecolor and then to TV, other output disconnected, see if issue is the same or not.

Also, do you have a GoBlue ?

PS: Status indicator in GUI for combo trick cannot change until you repeat the trick of flash firmware again or import a config that have different configuration for it.
Retest with FW 1.13. This time the only input was the Oppo and output through eeColor then TV. 2nd connection to the TV was removed.
Again the same issue, once the framerate changes on the Oppo's output screen went black and HDCP version is gone in the GUI and OLED.

Sorry, no GoBlue. I control the Vertex via IR as You provide all these nice pronto codes.

One new strange thing. I tested yesterday with No Scaling activated. Now I'm no more able to activate custom or autoscaling, same is with custon edid. Everything is greyd out. I did several resets (on the Vertex as well with the GUI) and RST + 2x INP tricks, also uploaded my config which was with custom scaling, but no luck.

What can I do to reactivate custom scaling and edid??

Thank You!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGrana View Post
I tend to agree with Manni, those feature could be removed. But, where does the HDR metadate override sit? Will this also not be implemented?

It is surprising that we a now talking about ditching features. That implies no more new going forward.
One idea @HDfury , I know it's not ideal - but you guys might want to consider forking into 2 firmwares. One for JVC owners and one for the rest of us.

The video world is larger than JVC projectors ;-)
+1

Exactly what I think. It would be a sad thing removing nice features that are potential benefits for everyone just because to add more and more JVC features.

I'm also with Zoyd, one of main reasons for my purchase is the capability to inject metadata and IF for calibration with calman.
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post #2092 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
EDIT: Please disregard below! Today i learned that my AVR has a zone 2 output which I can use to output to the projector and use Zone 1 for TV and ARC. so it seems my AVR is capable of doing what I’ve been needing this whole time. I can program my Logitech remote to use the AVR Zone 2 when using the projector.
Many AVR models restrict audio output to stereo when using Zone 2. You might want to check that.

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post #2093 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
EDIT: Please disregard below! Today i learned that my AVR has a zone 2 output which I can use to output to the projector and use Zone 1 for TV and ARC. so it seems my AVR is capable of doing what I’ve been needing this whole time. I can program my Logitech remote to use the AVR Zone 2 when using the projector.

==============================
The primary reason I’m considering a HDFury Vertex is to be able to have one output of the AVR go to both my projector and OLED 4K HDR TV depending on which I’m using (only would use one at any given time). Currently i have to go and switch the HDMI out of the AVR manually from the TVs HDMI to the Projectors HDMI. I would like whatever I’m using to just have it’s max specs showing automatically without the manual HDMI switch.

However, a primary concern is that if I did purchase a Vertex, it would be between the TV/Projector and AVR output. So, my ARC questions were to see how I could still get the same DD+/Atmos from TV to AVR with the Vertex in between. It sounds like the Vertex will accept the HDMI signal from the TV, and then I’ll just need to run an optical cable from the Vertex to the AVR in order to get the DD+/Atmos? If so that should be easy. The cable needed would be a Coaxial SPDIF (Vertex OUT) to Optical SPDIF (AVR IN), right?
If you connect Vertex between AVR and TV, you can still link TV ARC input to your AVR directly. That was my point. I meant, if it's all working fine via HDMI ARC to AVR directly, then it's easier than HDMI ARC to Vertex and then optical to AVR, but as long as your AVR accept 192khz via optical output, then yes, both should work fine. The cable you need is JACK optical to S/PDIF, you can google it. Available from our website too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aeneas01 View Post
@HDfury

well after spending over a week just to get the vertex to split a 4k signal to a 1080p projector and a 4ktv, and having it finally work, i took a couple of days off from all things av... tonight i settled in to enjoy a 4k dvd but instead of being entertained by an awesome vid i was greeted with this message on my 4k screen:



how is this possible? a few days of no use and it goes from working to this? so i pulled the vertex out of the chain and everything worked perfectly fine, the movie played flawlessly in full 4k hdr.

i suppose i could go through some more rounds of config files, resets, perhaps a couple of more combo tricks but, quite honestly, i'm out of gas on this, way too much work just to split a signal... i appreciate your earlier help trying to get it working for me, even tho it was more a workaround than the vertex actually working as it should, but sometimes you just have to say uncle.
We have already ordered TCL TV to solve the issue, it will arrive next week, so the fix will be for next TCL owner then.
The issue you are reporting here is just missing HDR/BT2020 flag in Automix (or algo adjustment)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hexcode99 View Post
I thought you were going to test it for me? Sounds like it might be a long while longer if you send to this other person and not even guaranteed he will test it.
Just trying to find out if the Vertex can keep 4:4:4 chroma when scaling 1080p RGB to 4k RGB at 60fps 8bit.
Yes i thought the same, just the show have been more busy than we though (actually 800 visitors on our booth) so i had no time for me, sorry.
Rtings guys are the one who tested Linker upscaling and they are unbiased so currently it's the best way to get this tested as it should.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Brown01 View Post
Thank you for the reply HDfury! I just ordered the AVR-Key for my wireless headphones. It looks like its the perfect device for my needs. (Full 4K HDR signal to the TV and extra HD Audio output to my wireless Headphones Sony MDR-HW700DS.

Few small question though,

1. the Vertex is able to output One 4K SDR 60fps signal as 1x 4K SDR 60fps and 1x 1080p SDR 60fps is that correct?

2. How high is the input lag created by the Vertex, 2-3 milliseconds?
1. YES ! (it's made for that)
2. less than 1 frame latency when doing operations on the signal, nearly nothing if no scaling/chroma/color depth operations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGrana View Post
I tend to agree with Manni, those feature could be removed. But, where does the HDR metadate override sit? Will this also not be implemented?

It is surprising that we a now talking about ditching features. That implies no more new going forward.
One idea @HDfury , I know it's not ideal - but you guys might want to consider forking into 2 firmwares. One for JVC owners and one for the rest of us.

The video world is larger than JVC projectors ;-)
We are considering a few options at the moment, the goal is not to save memory for JVC needs, we want to have available memory for the most needed and requested feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
As I understand it, vendor specific infoframe is needed to force DV mode when using with Calman calibration software.
Not sure if they are using it, could be, for the moment, nothing removed, just discussing/seeing where we can save memory from.

4k format will always need “hdmi vsi”. So does 3D. Those are unrelated to DV. Of course if you send 4k DV then there will also be “hdmi vsi”

In addition there is a plain “vsi” which is a generic vendor specific infoframe, we have not seen this in the stream when dv is active.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post
Retest with FW 1.13. This time the only input was the Oppo and output through eeColor then TV. 2nd connection to the TV was removed.
Again the same issue, once the framerate changes on the Oppo's output screen went black and HDCP version is gone in the GUI and OLED.

Sorry, no GoBlue. I control the Vertex via IR as You provide all these nice pronto codes.

One new strange thing. I tested yesterday with No Scaling activated. Now I'm no more able to activate custom or autoscaling, same is with custon edid. Everything is greyd out. I did several resets (on the Vertex as well with the GUI) and RST + 2x INP tricks, also uploaded my config which was with custom scaling, but no luck.

What can I do to reactivate custom scaling and edid??

Thank You!
You need to have SCALE slide to MID position to allow GUI control (or remote control), same for all slides switch, if HDCP or EDID is not in middle position, then no GUI control possible.
So if GUI is greyed out, it just means slide switch is not in mid position (as per usermanual)

Thank you for your test, that confirm the issues being with eecolor, so you should be able to setup everything as you want, and remove eecolor and it will work (you can try it)
Now to solve eecolor, we might need to buy one unit.

Please send me PM with your delivery address, we want to test something directly with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post
+1

Exactly what I think. It would be a sad thing removing nice features that are potential benefits for everyone just because to add more and more JVC features.

I'm also with Zoyd, one of main reasons for my purchase is the capability to inject metadata and IF for calibration with calman.
That will remain, don't worry.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 02-17-2018 at 09:26 AM.
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post #2094 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 11:18 AM
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We have already ordered TCL TV to solve the issue, it will arrive next week, so the fix will be for next TCL owner then. The issue you are reporting here is just missing HDR/BT2020 flag in Automix (or algo adjustment)
i thought the purchase of the tcl was to solve the previous issue, i.e. the vertex always recognizing the tcl as on/active? the combo trick seemed to be a workaround and at least, finally, made the vertex usable in my setup, i could at least operate my displays without any probs using the vertex... the issue (non compatible tv) in my most recent is different, i haven't seen it before in my setup. it wasn't happening before... i could at least use the vertex before, but now the only way to watch 4k tv is to remove the vertex from the chain (or try combo fixes again i suppose)... are you saying that the current issue is tied to the previous issue and that the fix will solve both (all?) problems?
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post #2095 of 4511 Old 02-17-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
You need to have SCALE slide to MID position to allow GUI control (or remote control), same for all slides switch, if HDCP or EDID is not in middle position, then no GUI control possible.
So if GUI is greyed out, it just means slide switch is not in mid position (as per usermanual)

Thank you for your test, that confirm the issues being with eecolor, so you should be able to setup everything as you want, and remove eecolor and it will work (you can try it)
Now to solve eecolor, we might need to buy one unit.

Please send me PM with your delivery address, we want to test something directly with you.
OK, must have moved the switches by accident. Should have read the manual more careful, my bad, sorry for that.

Regarding the eeColor You are right. Removing it from the chain would solve the problem, but I rather stay on the older firmware then loosing color accuracy.

I have to say Your support is really outstanding, thanks a lot for this. You are just great...

PM sent with my delivery address.
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I have to say Your support is really outstanding, thanks a lot for this. You are just great...
it truly is.
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post #2097 of 4511 Old 02-18-2018, 01:43 AM
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Anyone noticed flickering in the picture when using an Apple TV4 (4K), when the Apple resolution is 4K60/24 and the picture is downscaled to 1080P60/24 using Vertex?
It is noticable as a slight but fast fluctuating brightness in dark scenes. If i set the output of the Apple TV to 1080P24, the flickering is gone (so no downscaling). ATV's match content options are on. But this has no auto-resolution, only auto-framerate.

I will try to bypass the Vertex tonight, to find out if it is Vertex related at all, but i was wondering if anyone else has noticed.

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post #2098 of 4511 Old 02-18-2018, 02:11 AM
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I installed my Vertex in the chain yesterday, and everything seems to be working nicely, with one exception.

My Apple TV seems to output Rec 709, on all settings, HDR and SDR, no matter what output rate I select.

I have checked Disable HDR in the Vertex GUI , as I wanted to retain the dynamic iris in my JVC projector. I have also selected Frame rate matching in the Apple TV.

My chain is ATV > Marantz 8802 > JVC X7000. I’m on EDID 14 on the Vertex and have no problem with cables. All firmware on Vertex updated, and the ATV isn’t on a beta firmware.

I was wondering would I need to have the projector on BT2020 and a HDR gamma curve, before hand shape, for the ATV to know to send HDR through?

Any advice please?

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post #2099 of 4511 Old 02-18-2018, 02:28 AM
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My Apple TV seems to output Rec 709, on all settings, HDR and SDR, no matter what output rate I select.
You have to enable 'match content' in Apple's menu, that way it will output SDR as SDR and HDR as HDR. Also enable 'match framerate'.
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post #2100 of 4511 Old 02-18-2018, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jowicrt View Post
You have to enable 'match content' in Apple's menu, that way it will output SDR as SDR and HDR as HDR. Also enable 'match framerate'.
Thank you. Yep, I have that enabled, but it seems to still only let Rec 709 through , whether I play purchased SDR or HDR movies. Also via Enfuse app.

It does show the Menu on the ATV in HDR.

I'm wondering could it be because my download speed is below what the ATV needs to enable 4k? perhaps its defaulting back to SDR 709?

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