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AekaGSR 07-21-2017 08:19 AM

7 Attachment(s)
This is the thread for discussing the HDFury Vertex as well as support.


https://www.hdfury.com/wp-content/up...Vertex_UHD.png


-General Support-

Please be descriptive in your support question and follow this format:
Source Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > etc...

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in one chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > X4200 > 6ft copper > LG C7

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in split chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > LG C7
---------------------------------> 6ft copper > X4200



Additional info we would like:
- FW in use and config (if possible)
- Confirmation that lock Icon is visible or not on OLED screen.
- Issue Description
- Link to any active or fiber cable in use.
- For users with any active or fiber cable, Test by replacing with copper: solve issue or not
- Test by power on sequence (power sink at outputs first, then source at input): solve issue or not.


Driver installation:

There are two different Silabs Drivers; v4.0.0 and v3.9.2. Try to install v.4.0.0 first and if you get a message saying cannot find any drivers for your system, then cancel and install v3.9.2 instead.
3.9.2 are mandatory for WinXP only.

To download Silabs Driver v4.0.0: http://www.hdfury.com/tools/Silabs_Driver_v4.zip
- Unzip it and navigate to the inner most Silabs_Driver_v4 folder. USBXpressInstaller_x64 application file is for Windows 64-bit. USBXpressInstaller_x86 for Windows 32-bit. Right mouse click on the correct version for your Windows and select Run As Administrator to install the driver.

To download Silabs Driver v3.9.2: http://www.hdfury.com/tools/Silabs_Driver_v3.zip
- Unzip it and navigate to the inner most Silabs_Driver_v3 folder. Right mouse click on USBXpressInstaller application file and select Run as Administrator.

After installation of the Silabs driver is complete, reboot your PC, connect your device and wait for USB notification sound (first connection after drivers install always take more time than next one).

~Courtesy of Claw



GoBlue update procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=tJQVu4z_2ko



Fix for HIGH DPI settings with the VERTEX GUI:

Many of you may have noticed that by default the Vertex GUI doesn't play nicely with high resolution displays and/or scaling. Particularly with Windows 10.
The GUI is near-unusable (certainly unreadable) unless you drop to a lower DPI and/or resolution - at which point it may be very hard to read.

This is easy to fix in Windows 10, and I believe 8 as well:

Make sure the GUI isn't already running, then right click the GUI exe file (the regular one, there's no need to do this with the 200dpi version)

Click the "Compatibility" tab.
Look down for "Override high DPI scaling behavior" and check the box.
For the drop-down under "Scaling Performed by" choose "System - Enhanced"
Start the GUI and revel in how it works normally now.

If you are like me and have a 4k PJ/TV and use 300% DPI scaling for the desktop you will seriously appreciate this.

~Courtesy of Ix



====Firmware as of 21-December-18====

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 57329286)
Vertex FW1.36.1.43 and GUI 1.34

Make sure to install Silabs driver first if you haven't yet done so.
This update IS mandatory (In case of any issue, it will be asked that you first update to this firmware version)

- Remember that after FPGA update, you must power cycle the Vertex and when you connect it back, the OLED will stay OFF for about 15s (time to apply the update internally), wait till OLED is back ON and then you can proceed normally.
- Easiest/Fastest/Recommended way: Update MCU, then Update FPGA, then powercycle. (if you was running FW1.36.37 or 1.36.1.41 or 1.36.1.42, you can skip MCU update)
- If you fine tuned your unit config and settings, export your config before update and import it back once update is completed.
- Once update is completed you might see a lock icon on the OLED top right corner, please do the combo trick: HOLD RST and PRESS INP 2 times, OLED will prompt for powercycle, simply remove/reconnect USB powercord (if you exported your config before update and imported back after update, you don't need to repeat this trick, the lock icon won't be visible)


##########> What's new/fixed in 1.36.1.43 and GUI 1.34

1. Oled showed HDR outgoing even when HDR was disabled - fixed


2. Improved autosense routines which would convert in some case to deep color even if input is not deep color. Modified and improved autosensing throughout direct paths, upscaling paths and downscaling paths.


3. Cleared Oled display bug that popped up since 1.36.1.41 (flashing character and extra character on some oled page)


4. Updated input routine for 4K24 422 12b and 4K60 422 12b now supporting more sources even if their timing are slightly off.




Download Link: https://hdfury.com/tools/Vertex_1.36.1.43_GUI_1.34.zip


The default Auto-Sense mode for Auto-Scaling (SCALE slide on AUTOSCALING) coupled with default Custom EDID (EDID slide on CUSTOM) should be enough to give you a picture in any setup.
If not, please remember than when using AUTOSCALING, you have access to 10 quick-presets that are specifically introduced for the TOP port down-scaling. (refer to usermanual p.14)
Auto Sense also upscale automatically except if manually turned OFF from GUI/APP/IR/RS232.



KNOWN ISSUES:
- For users of the first Vertex PCB version (PCB1) with HDMI active cable non powered by their own power supply, please refer to that post if you are experiencing issue. (You can easily isolate the issue by testing with 6-12ft copper)


For any support issue/question:
- Please export your vertexconfig.txt (GUI > FILE > EXPORT) when trying the signal through and having the issue (if possible) and attach it as a txt file in your post.
- If you cannot provide config file, then it's mandatory to confirm you are running the latest firmware 1.36.1.43.
- Issue Description, ultimately with Link to Display and/or AVR usermanual in PDF format and Link to any active or fiber cable in use.
- Always make conclusion and bug report using Wall Plug Adapter to power Vertex.
- If you have a lock icon on OLED top right corner: HOLD RST and press INP 2 times, Vertex OLED will prompt for powercycle (Remove/Reconnect USB powercord > lock icon will disappear after restart)
- Always describe your video chain path with brand/model of all equipment as well as hdmi cable length and type between them (ex: SOURCE Brand/Model > 6ft copper > Vertex INP0-OUT1> 6ft copper > AVR Brand/Model > etc...)

Example of video chain description:
Source Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > etc...

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in one chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > X4200 > 6ft copper > LG C7

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in split chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > LG C7
---------------------------------> 6ft copper > X4200


====Q&A====


-Does the Vertex do frame rate conversion
No


-How do I connect the Vertex to a computer for firmware upgrade? Does it need less current in this case as for normal operation and and it is not required to have it connected to the power supply or are both Vertex and computer connected to the two USB ports of the power adapter and how exactly (port with one dot, port with two dots)?
-You connect the supplied USB powercord between your computer USB port and the Vertex USB port. If you just connect Vertex without any signal going through, power consumption is ridiculous, even if you play a signal at max speed power consumption doesn't exceed 1A, you would need to matrix two 18Gbps streams to go over 1A. Most computer USB port comes by 2 or 4, when 4 ports are available, it's usually one HUB ic sharing 5V2A for all 4 USB ports so each can get at least 0,5A (or 500mA) if they are all in use. So make sure if you want to use Vertex GUI software and play a signal at the same time that you don't have too many USB devices taking power at the same time. the Power adapter have 2 USB for convenience only, you can use any of them, so you can power Vertex and charge your phone at the same time if you want, or your joypad or your tablet, whatever...


-Okay, I have everything installed, but where do I begin?-
Here is a good starting point via HDFury:
Quote:

To make it more easy for everyone, there is 2 easy way for Vertex:

1. AUTOMIX + NO SCALING (source will send a signal that always match max mixed capabilities of both displays), Note that if AVR support 300MHz and display support 600MHz, it might try to send 600MHz with full sound, in such case, you need to change automix algo from MAX VIDEO/MAX AUDIO, to MIN VIDEO/MAX AUDIO.

2. CUSTOM EDID + AUTOSCALING (This should be default testing setup for everyone)

The other way possible is if sinks support the capabilities set by CUSTOM EDID (CUSTOM EDID+ NO SCALING), for ex, if you have 18Gbps/600MHz sinks, you might want to use that mode.
Finally the advanced users way is CUSTOM EDID + CUSTOM SCALING. (it cannot work if sinks are not both 600MHz until you manually set CUSTOM SCALING rules)
All above is assuming Custom EDID is default MAX.
Reminder that the EDID determines what your source is seeing and will send. SCALER determines what Vertex will do with that signal and how it will output it.

-Is there Macro Control for the different modes?-
Yes, so far there is control for the JVC Projectors:
JVC calibration auto switch: 3D/x.v.color/SDR/HDR/HLG calibration autoswitch for 2015+ JVC PJs


JVC Macro not working?
Set the JVC to any mode but USER 1 [Note: in older models, RS-232 and IP control can't work at the same time, you have to select one or the other.
In 2015+ (and I think 2014 models) this isn't necessary and IP control works at the same time as RS-232].
Go to the RS232 tab in the Vertex GUI
Click "send test"
Until the JVC goes into User1, the RS232 control isn't working, so it's your cable (or the JVC) that doesn't work. It has nothing to do with the JVC Macro feature.
Please report back once you've got a working RS232-cable if you still have issues with the JVC Macro.
Recommended cables are listed in the original post about the Vertex JVC Macro feature, along with the pin assignment if you use your own cable.
See first post of the JVC Autocal thread in my sig for links to the Vertex related posts.


-OSD With Irule macro-
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post55210652


-Can I get ARC sound?-
If you want Vertex to retrieve ARC sound with Vertex, then VERTEX must be set as AUDIO SYSTEM with ARC under CEC devices settings (CEC must be enabled too).
Once this is done, the bottom output of Vertex must be connected to your TV ARC input and then you will have the TV ARC sound available at Vertex optical/analog out.
Optical is up to 5.1 and up to stereo for analog.
You can also just connect AVR ARC to TV ARC input and use Vertex thru another TV input if you don't want to use Vertex for ARC.
Latest Vertex firmware also allow to extract DD+ and ATMOS from TV APP and forward to AVR via optical (assuming your AVR support 192khz on optical input, very rare)


-What is the voltage of the TX/RX rs232 pins on the Vertex? I'm thinking of attaching it to raspberry pi serial port pins and need to know if it requires a level shifter from the default 3.3V levels on the pi.-
Yes need level shifter, Vertex is standard RS232, not an UART port.
voltage is around +-5V
Do not attach Pi to it without level shifter !


-What cables have been tested? or How should I place them-
- Any certified copper, active powered or fiber powered cable are ok.
For user with active cable non powered, read below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 55327288)
Monoprice Active & NON-POWERED cable was received and tested today. (50ft version: order page)

First of all, my apologies because in my mind active cable meant powered.
It appears that Vertex have zero issue with any Active or Fiber as long as they are powered (that's why celerity tek had no issue in our tests, they are powered)

If people remember from Linker or Integral experience, when users had issue when trying to do:
... > AVR > 6ft HMDI > Integral or Linker > Long distance active not powered > Display

The recommendation was always to do:
... > AVR > Long distance active not powered > Integral or Linker > 6ft HDMI > Display

And the reason given was:
An AVR will always supply better 5V at output than a 5V device as driving copper is not powering active.

Well, it happens that the exact same situation apply to Vertex

As we ran and completed the cable tests, here is the data, info and conclusion we can make:
- Its an active cable that draws power from the +5 pin of the connector. It takes around 70mA which is like 350mW. It should give issue with some sources but not after an AVR.
- When connected to PC USB port, we get no signal (PC USB Port too weak, the cable does not activate at all). We measured around 4.23V at the +5 V pin and this apparently does not allow it to work at all. Too low.
- When connected to the Fury supply we measure around 4.5V at the +5 pin and we can see a picture but get little white dots here and there randomly which we know exactly are signal integrity issues and they are produced by the monoprice cable. (or any unpowered active cables)
- When connected a +5V source from our lab equipment rack then we get around 4.8V at the +5 pin and with this config we cannot see any white dots.

The issue is that those 5v cable drew too much voltage or that Vertex (or Integral or Linker) doesn't provide enough for them.
The snow/stripes customer sees are not related to sync or hdcp, they are signal integrity issues (which can ultimately lead to sync issue)

Tests were made with 50ft, shorter might give better results, longer surely worst. The longer the cable the more underpowered it will be.
And when device is underpowered, anything can happen, Vertex might not sync since there is nothing to sync with Or vertex sees a device which suddenly goes away or in an endless loop.

Two possibilities/solutions: (that also apply to Linker/Integral)

1. Using shorter/thicker USB cord from PSU to Vertex can help. We will of course also start sourcing thicker cable and start shipping them with all our devices as it can help supporting such cables.
Thicker cable will have less Voltage loss.

2. Use 5.15V or so Power supply. We will there also also modify our power supply to offer more support for such cables in the future, this might takes a while for us.
You can try using tablet or smartphone charger in the meantime or a specialized USB power source.

Current power supply gives 5V, but since Vertex takes like 0.6A and some of the voltage is lost on the cable itself. At the input of Vertex USB, the voltage is already like 4.75
increasing to 5.1 or 5.2V means that under heavy load the input voltage is around 4.8-4.85 and under light load could be exactly 5.0
right now using the 5.0V supply the light load voltage is around 4.8-4.85 (some might work better than others)

All the above is really ONLY relevant for such non-powered active cables and exclusively at output.

Bottom line for Vertex users with such non powered active cable at Vertex output:


- You can move Vertex after it, so active cable is at input.
- You can replace it by powered active or fiber.
- You can try getting thicker/shorter USB powercord.
- You can try another PSU from smartphone or tablet
- You can use a specialized USB power source.
- You can try power injector (take care of artifacts at 600MHz)
- You can use our Universal Power Supply, output 1 offers 5.25V


HDfury 07-21-2017 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AekaGSR (Post 54435465)
I'm trying to figure out what the Vertex actually does as it appears it is a Linker and Integral all in one. The website is vague. Can it do more than these two devices? I'm a current Integral owner and was looking at a Linker for a while, but now that the Vertex is coming up I'm just now a bit confused.

Ok, first you can have a look here: https://www.hdfury.com/comparison

I'll try to summarize a few points below:

Integral is 18Gbps Splitter and 10.2 Gbps Matrix.
Linker is 18Gbps Scaler

Vertex is 18Gbps Splitter/Matrix/Scaler and can scale each channel individually as explained previously in the thread that disappeared, with Vertex ultimately you can input input 4K downscale to 1080p, apply treatment from external 1080p box to the signal and inject back into Vertex secondary channel that will upscale back to 4K at the end. this particular situation show how versatile it can be as it would require 2 Linker to do the same.
So basically it's like INTEGRAL + 2 Linker combined.

Vertex have higher signal integrity than Integral and will support more marginal cables for 600MHz.

Vertex have OLED and multiple info pages on it that will provide all information you ever wanted to have or know and those you didn't even knew they existed.
It provides more infos than Linker or Integral at first sight without need of GUI, APP or anything. it's all available at sight and from your fingertips at anytime.

Vertex also offers OSD fully customizable in colors, position, transparency, and that can be used for others purpose that signal info, removing annoying tv channel logo, or displaying custom text, etc...
Integral or Linker does not have any of this.

Vertex can cipher and decipher HDR metadata in real time, have VSIF injection/extraction/replacement, once again neither Integral or Linker have any of this. (those are for power users or content creators mainly)

Vertex have the most advanced Windows GUI we ever did, and except the fact that our GUI doesn't scale well on all display resolutions, we are known to have some of the most advanced GUI in our field.
It's oriented and made for all the guys who was in touch with us here, you can EXPORT, IMPORT and share your config with others users. once again, Integral and Linker do not have those.

I'll stop listing here, as we can add a lot of some others small things, like RS232 and possible external add ons, etc...

Bottom line: This is not marketing gimmick, we tried to build the ultimate AV toolbox and our guys worked extremely hard on it as they put all they had into it to celebrate our 10th anniversary, we are proud of work done till now on it and we believe it's a great and amazing platform and that's why we are offering a dream ticket to switch to it.

Now if you want to know, does it switch faster or sync faster on JVC PJ, or upscale quality or others stuff like that, please wait Beta testers feedback (Claw and Manni on AVSforum), as we let real non affiliated users provide such information as always.

AekaGSR 07-21-2017 09:31 AM

Thanks. I own a 2014 model JVC PJ (1.4b). What is Manni01 and Claw using? I'm curious about the signal integrity as I currently have to run a signal booster on a 30 foot cable, without it I cannot resolve 4k @60hz. I'd love to ditch the booster as it is far from perfect.

HDfury 07-22-2017 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AekaGSR (Post 54437529)
Thanks. I own a 2014 model JVC PJ (1.4b). What is Manni01 and Claw using? I'm curious about the signal integrity as I currently have to run a signal booster on a 30 foot cable, without it I cannot resolve 4k @60hz. I'd love to ditch the booster as it is far from perfect.

They will post/comment later once they received the board and had time to test a bit. Please be patient for a couple of weeks.

Josh Z 08-02-2017 07:50 AM

Can the Vertex perform a vertical stretch for watching 2.35:1 content without letterbox bars on a Constant Height screen with a projector and anamorphic lens?

HDfury 08-03-2017 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 54569952)
Can the Vertex perform a vertical stretch for watching 2.35:1 content without letterbox bars on a Constant Height screen with a projector and anamorphic lens?

No ! only Lumagen Radiance Pro can do that currently on the market (AFAIK)

Josh Z 08-03-2017 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 54576038)
No ! only Lumagen Radiance Pro can do that currently on the market (AFAIK)

Is this something that could be added later? The Vertex already has a scaler built into it, right?

gsr 08-03-2017 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 54576436)
Is this something that could be added later? The Vertex already has a scaler built into it, right?

It's a matter of insufficient horsepower and flexibility in the chipset, not whether a scaler is included or not. @HDfury has said that the Vertex just won't have the ability to add this sort of functionality. It's certainly possible they may find ways to add in some of these sorts of features after they spend more time working with the chipset(s) they're using, but we shouldn't get our hopes too high that they can include functionality that's currently only available in devices that cost thousands of dollars in a device that costs a few hundred.

Josh Z 08-03-2017 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsr (Post 54576488)
It's a matter of insufficient horsepower and flexibility in the chipset, not whether a scaler is included or not. @HDfury has said that the Vertex just won't have the ability to add this sort of functionality. It's certainly possible they may find ways to add in some of these sorts of features after they spend more time working with the chipset(s) they're using, but we shouldn't get our hopes too high that they can include functionality that's currently only available in devices that cost thousands of dollars in a device that costs a few hundred.

Disappointing, but thanks for the explanation.

For what it's worth, the same functionality is built into the OPPO UHD player, which costs $550. However, the player has limitations on what it can scale due to Java garbage on the discs. This would make it better to do the scaling externally after decoding.

I also want to be clear that I'm only talking about a linear vertical stretch to eliminate the letterbox bars, not the more complex non-linear horizontal stretch features that the Lumagen processor also offers.

gsr 08-03-2017 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 54576654)
Disappointing, but thanks for the explanation.

For what it's worth, the same functionality is built into the OPPO UHD player, which costs $550. However, the player has limitations on what it can scale due to Java garbage on the discs. This would make it better to do the scaling externally after decoding.

I also want to be clear that I'm only talking about a linear vertical stretch to eliminate the letterbox bars, not the more complex non-linear horizontal stretch features that the Lumagen processor also offers.

That will either result in a cropped or distorted picture, so I suspect both HDFury and I assumed you were asking for the more complex stretch features. FWIW, I'm a beta tester for Oppo, but don't use that stretch functionality because I don't have a display that would benefit from it.

D_B_0673 08-03-2017 10:03 AM

Is this the thread that will have the beta testers results?
thanks
dan

Josh Z 08-03-2017 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsr (Post 54576750)
That will either result in a cropped or distorted picture, so I suspect both HDFury and I assumed you were asking for the more complex stretch features. FWIW, I'm a beta tester for Oppo, but don't use that stretch functionality because I don't have a display that would benefit from it.

The purpose of the stretch is to crop out the letterbox bars and use the full pixel panel for movie content. Picture geometry is restored by placing an anamorphic lens in front of the projector.

This feature has been included in all of OPPO's Blu-ray players, but BD-Java prevents it from working on some content.

HDfury 08-03-2017 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 54576654)
Disappointing, but thanks for the explanation.

For what it's worth, the same functionality is built into the OPPO UHD player, which costs $550. However, the player has limitations on what it can scale due to Java garbage on the discs. This would make it better to do the scaling externally after decoding.

I also want to be clear that I'm only talking about a linear vertical stretch to eliminate the letterbox bars, not the more complex non-linear horizontal stretch features that the Lumagen processor also offers.

Not exactly, UHD BR player can do it for UHD BR since they are decoding/handling the content at source level. for example, they cannot do it for embedded app like netflix isn't it ?

This being said, affordable 600MHz FPGA will be out next year so at least 1 more full year is needed to see anything close to doing what you want at decent price. and yes it's disappointing.
Usually, once this happens, then 1200 MHz HDMI standard comes out and everybody wants the same for 1200MHz, and then it will cost multi thousands $ again ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_B_0673 (Post 54577032)
Is this the thread that will have the beta testers results?
thanks
dan

sometime ago i could answer that, today i cannot and don't know ;)
i would say, just look around in due time.

Josh Z 08-03-2017 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 54579522)
Not exactly, UHD BR player can do it for UHD BR since they are decoding/handling the content at source level. for example, they cannot do it for embedded app like netflix isn't it ?

According to this thread, the OPPO player can stretch UHD BR discs with HDR10, but can't do it for discs with Dolby Vision.

3D Blu-rays are also frequently problematic.

gsr 08-03-2017 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 54579670)
According to this thread, the OPPO player can stretch UHD BR discs with HDR10, but can't do it for discs with Dolby Vision.

3D Blu-rays are also frequently problematic.

Much of this (on the Oppo) comes down to licensing restrictions rather than the hardware not having enough horsepower. For Dolby Vision, Dolby wants complete control over everything video related, so a LOT of the video processing functionality of the Oppo players is disabled when playing Dolby Vision content.

@HDfury , the Oppo UDP-20x players don't currently have any apps (Netflix, etc.), so it's hard to say with certainty if they could apply the scaling, but I don't see why not as they would still be decoding a video stream, it would just be coming over the Internet instead of off a optical disc. For example, the players can apply the same processing that's available for Blurays and UHD Blurays to video played via DLNA or SMB shares (just without some of the silly issues that Java introduces when playing optical discs).

hexcode99 08-04-2017 12:02 PM

Why can the Vertex only upscale 1080p to 4k and not something like 720p or 480p to 4k as well?

HDfury 08-04-2017 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexcode99 (Post 54582956)
Why can the Vertex only upscale 1080p to 4k and not something like 720p or 480p to 4k as well?

you do that with FPGA, we have FPGA for 0 <> 200MHz, it's HDfury4

So you upscale 480p/720p/1080i to 1080p with HDF4 and then you upscale 1080p/FHD to 2160p/UHD up to 600MHz with Vertex

FPGA at 600MHz is currently too expensive (it's lumagen radiance pro)

Vertex is limited to FHD<>UHD 18Gbps by asic design.

claw 08-04-2017 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AekaGSR (Post 54437529)
Thanks. I own a 2014 model JVC PJ (1.4b). What is Manni01 and Claw using? I'm curious about the signal integrity as I currently have to run a signal booster on a 30 foot cable, without it I cannot resolve 4k @60hz. I'd love to ditch the booster as it is far from perfect.

I have a JVC RS500 projector.

I have the Vertex prototype connected between my Oppo 203 player and my Denon x4200w AVR. My RS500 is connected to the AVR with a 25 foot Blue Jeans Series-1e HDMI cable.

Since switching to the Blue Jeans cable I have not had any video sync loss which I used to have with previous cables when playing YouTube 4K60 videos from my Samsung UHD player, or when playing the Billy Lynn 4K60 UHD disc from my Oppo. So I can't say whether the Vertex has improved signal integrity with respect to HDMI cable distance.

But I can say I am very pleased how much smoother my RS500 syncs to resolution changes with the Vertex in the device chain. When I start playback of a UHD disc there are none of the No HDMI input messages flashing on the screen until the sync is completed. Just a blank screen, then audio starts, and then followed by the video. I am getting the UHD disc menu displayed at around 25 seconds after pressing enter on the Oppo remote. The sync time is consistent and I have not encountered the up to 35 second syncs that would sometimes occur with the Linker in the chain. After stopping UHD disc playback I get the Oppo menu displayed after 20 seconds. This is with the Oppo set to auto resolution, auto color space, and auto bit-depth. (Those who do not have JVC projectors will cringe at the thought of a 25 second sync time. But even without any HDFury device in the chain it takes the JVCs up to 20 seconds to sync to UHD disc playback.)

I have experimented with Sink EDID, EDID 2, and EDID 8. All seem to work well. In fact, so far I have not had a single sync failure when powering on the components or starting/stopping UHD disc playback. I repeated some of the test scenarios that had previously failed with the Linker until HDFury released new firmware to address them; mostly related to Denon/Marantz AVRs. Repeated start/stop playback of UHD discs was always successful. Repeated AVR input switching between my Directv C61 4K box and my Oppo was always successful; even with the Oppo playing the Billy Lynn 4K60 UHD disc and the C61K playing a 4K60 DVR recording.

I also tested connecting a 1080p TV to one of the Vertex HDMI outputs. I was able to successfully upscale 1080p Blu Ray playback from my HTPC to 4k on the HDMI output to the RS500 while simultaneously sending 1080p to the TV. I was also successful down scaling UHD disc playback to 1080p for the TV while simultaneously sending 4K to the RS500. I had previously used the Linker to down scale 4k to 1080p to the TV but the Vertex seems better at being able to drive both displays concurrently at different resolutions than the Linker was able to do down scaling to the TV alone.

The Vertex also seems to have resolved a loss of sync with my Directv C61K when changing from 4K60 channels/recordings to 1080i or 720p channels. This had been an aggravating issue that has occurred since the very first day I got the C61K. I would have to power restart the C61K each time. But with the C61K connected to the Vertex I can repeatedly switch from 4K60 to non-4k channels without any loss of sync.

There are some minor issues with the Vertex that I have reported but they should be addressed in the next test firmware.

Just now, my Oppo completed playing the Billy Lynn UHD disc start to finish at 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit HDR (with Vertex EDID 2 and the Disable HDR metadata flag set) without a single HDMI related hiccup.

claw 08-04-2017 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 54585158)
you do that with FPGA, we have FPGA for 0 <> 200MHz, it's HDfury4

So you upscale 480p/720p/1080i to 1080p with HDF4 and then you upscale 1080p/FHD to 2160p/UHD up to 600MHz with Vertex

FPGA at 600MHz is currently too expensive (it's lumagen radiance pro)

Vertex is limited to FHD<>UHD 18Gbps by asic design.

But the HDF4/Vertex combo would not work with a device such as the Directv C61K that can output either 480p/720p/1080i/1080p/4k24/4k60 depending upon the channel. The HDF4 would not be able to handle the 4K input.

HDfury 08-05-2017 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claw (Post 54585552)
But the HDF4/Vertex combo would not work with a device such as the Directv C61K that can output either 480p/720p/1080i/1080p/4k24/4k60 depending upon the channel. The HDF4 would not be able to handle the 4K input.

Obviously correct, i was talking about SD/HD/FHD (aka HDMI 1.x) sources to HDMI 2.x sink. DirecTV C61K is already HDMI 2.x

So yes, we all know it, ultimate solution to handle any possible case of upscaling/downscaling, color correction or aspect ratio or even frame rate conversion, need a 600MHz FPGA design.

assplats 08-07-2017 12:05 PM

I like what I'm seeing with the Vertex... my only issue is that I know HDMI 2.1 is right around the corner.

HDfury 08-08-2017 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assplats (Post 54596896)
I like what I'm seeing with the Vertex... my only issue is that I know HDMI 2.1 is right around the corner.


Oh yes, but 1200MHz working setup (which is the promise of HDMI2.1) is not at the corner, not even in the right street yet ;)

assplats 08-08-2017 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 54601754)
Oh yes, but 1200MHz working setup (which is the promise of HDMI2.1) is not at the corner, not even in the right street yet ;)

:)

My most anticipated feature is VRR... Do you know if you'll be able to implement this into the Vertex once the standard is released? 1080p @ 120hz VRR or 4k @ 60hz VRR would be awesome from my gaming PC to my Sony OLED.

120hz 4k or 10/12 bit with full subsampling would be nice too, but I'm not too concerned about that ;)

8k/10k, I could care less about for now.

HDfury 08-08-2017 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assplats (Post 54601798)
:)

My most anticipated feature is VRR... Do you know if you'll be able to implement this into the Vertex once the standard is released? 1080p @ 120hz VRR or 4k @ 60hz VRR would be awesome from my gaming PC to my Sony OLED.

120hz 4k or 10/12 bit with full subsampling would be nice too, but I'm not too concerned about that ;)

8k/10k, I could care less about for now.



More likely the world will need new chipset for VRR and more likely you won't see anything concrete in a shop before 2 years in this field.
First let them come out with hdmi cable that works for 1200MHz without changing connector :)

assplats 08-08-2017 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 54601890)
More likely the world will need new chipset for VRR and more likely you won't see anything concrete in a shop before 2 years in this field.
First let them come out with hdmi cable that works for 1200MHz without changing connector :)

Haha, it took them this long to get 600mhz cables to work right... I can't wait to see how long this takes. Hopefully it won't be an issue this time.

But, yeah, I guessed it would be a chipset update and would take a few years when I finally decided to buy the new TV... Otherwise, I would have waited.

D_B_0673 08-08-2017 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claw (Post 54585520)
I have a JVC RS500 projector.

I have the Vertex prototype connected between my Oppo 203 player and my Denon x4200w AVR. My RS500 is connected to the AVR with a 25 foot Blue Jeans Series-1e HDMI cable.

Since switching to the Blue Jeans cable I have not had any video sync loss which I used to have with previous cables when playing YouTube 4K60 videos from my Samsung UHD player, or when playing the Billy Lynn 4K60 UHD disc from my Oppo. So I can't say whether the Vertex has improved signal integrity with respect to HDMI cable distance.

But I can say I am very pleased how much smoother my RS500 syncs to resolution changes with the Vertex in the device chain. When I start playback of a UHD disc there are none of the No HDMI input messages flashing on the screen until the sync is completed. Just a blank screen, then audio starts, and then followed by the video. I am getting the UHD disc menu displayed at around 25 seconds after pressing enter on the Oppo remote. The sync time is consistent and I have not encountered the up to 35 second syncs that would sometimes occur with the Linker in the chain. After stopping UHD disc playback I get the Oppo menu displayed after 20 seconds. This is with the Oppo set to auto resolution, auto color space, and auto bit-depth. (Those who do not have JVC projectors will cringe at the thought of a 25 second sync time. But even without any HDFury device in the chain it takes the JVCs up to 20 seconds to sync to UHD disc playback.)

I have experimented with Sink EDID, EDID 2, and EDID 8. All seem to work well. In fact, so far I have not had a single sync failure when powering on the components or starting/stopping UHD disc playback. I repeated some of the test scenarios that had previously failed with the Linker until HDFury released new firmware to address them; mostly related to Denon/Marantz AVRs. Repeated start/stop playback of UHD discs was always successful. Repeated AVR input switching between my Directv C61 4K box and my Oppo was always successful; even with the Oppo playing the Billy Lynn 4K60 UHD disc and the C61K playing a 4K60 DVR recording.

I also tested connecting a 1080p TV to one of the Vertex HDMI outputs. I was able to successfully upscale 1080p Blu Ray playback from my HTPC to 4k on the HDMI output to the RS500 while simultaneously sending 1080p to the TV. I was also successful down scaling UHD disc playback to 1080p for the TV while simultaneously sending 4K to the RS500. I had previously used the Linker to down scale 4k to 1080p to the TV but the Vertex seems better at being able to drive both displays concurrently at different resolutions than the Linker was able to do down scaling to the TV alone.

The Vertex also seems to have resolved a loss of sync with my Directv C61K when changing from 4K60 channels/recordings to 1080i or 720p channels. This had been an aggravating issue that has occurred since the very first day I got the C61K. I would have to power restart the C61K each time. But with the C61K connected to the Vertex I can repeatedly switch from 4K60 to non-4k channels without any loss of sync.

There are some minor issues with the Vertex that I have reported but they should be addressed in the next test firmware.

Just now, my Oppo completed playing the Billy Lynn UHD disc start to finish at 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit HDR (with Vertex EDID 2 and the Disable HDR metadata flag set) without a single HDMI related hiccup.

Since at the moment the OPPO cannot do a good job in HDR to SDR BT.2020, will the Vertex do the conversion? And if so would you select "source direct" out of the OPPO.
Thanks again
dan

AekaGSR 08-08-2017 12:38 PM

I went ahead and pre ordered one. It was an easy choice with the discount to Integral owners. But I would still would love to hear from the beta testers, hopefully soon.

claw 08-09-2017 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AekaGSR (Post 54602684)
I went ahead and pre ordered one. It was an easy choice with the discount to Integral owners. But I would still would love to hear from the beta testers, hopefully soon.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vid...l#post54585520

What else would you like to know?

AekaGSR 08-09-2017 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claw (Post 54607358)

Oh wow i totally missed your quote. I think that answered my burning questions. I was unaware that Billy Lynn was 60fps. I have a 2014 JVC model which can only do 4k60fps at 8 bit, no BT2020. I can do 4k24fps with BT2020 all day long with the Integral.

If I understand it right the vertex should be able to take the 4k60fps 12bit BT2020 and scale it down to 1080p60fps with BT2020 12bit, correct?

claw 08-10-2017 12:00 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by AekaGSR (Post 54608112)
Oh wow i totally missed your quote. I think that answered my burning questions. I was unaware that Billy Lynn was 60fps. I have a 2014 JVC model which can only do 4k60fps at 8 bit, no BT2020. I can do 4k24fps with BT2020 all day long with the Integral.

If I understand it right the vertex should be able to take the 4k60fps 12bit BT2020 and scale it down to 1080p60fps with BT2020 12bit, correct?

Yes I was able to do that.

I set the Scaling option for the top Vertex output to scale 4K60 to:
Mode: 1080p60
Color Space: 444 BT.2020
Deep Color: Follow

Since I have the Oppo, to get SDR BT.2020 I have to use the Oppo Strip Metadata option and set the Vertex EDID to one that supports HDR like EDID 8. Those with the Panasonic player would only need to set EDID 10 to get SDR BT.2020.

I played the Billy Lynn UHD disc and the Vertex reported

Input: 4K59.934 420 BT2020 12b
Output: 1080p59.934 444 BT2020 12b

My Denon x4200w reported 1080p60 BT.2020 4:4:4 12 bit input and output. My JVC RS500 reported 1080p60 12 bit and no HDR.

Screen shot of the Vertex GUI attached.


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