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HDFury Vertex - Owners thread

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#1 · (Edited)
This is the thread for discussing the HDFury Vertex as well as support.





-General Support-

Please be descriptive in your support question and follow this format:
Source Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > etc...

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in one chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > X4200 > 6ft copper > LG C7

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in split chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > LG C7
---------------------------------> 6ft copper > X4200



Additional info we would like:
- FW in use and config (if possible)
- Confirmation that lock Icon is visible or not on OLED screen.
- Issue Description
- Link to any active or fiber cable in use.
- For users with any active or fiber cable, Test by replacing with copper: solve issue or not
- Test by power on sequence (power sink at outputs first, then source at input): solve issue or not.


Driver installation:

There are two different Silabs Drivers; v4.0.0 and v3.9.2. Try to install v.4.0.0 first and if you get a message saying cannot find any drivers for your system, then cancel and install v3.9.2 instead.
3.9.2 are mandatory for WinXP only.

To download Silabs Driver v4.0.0: http://www.hdfury.com/tools/Silabs_Driver_v4.zip
- Unzip it and navigate to the inner most Silabs_Driver_v4 folder. USBXpressInstaller_x64 application file is for Windows 64-bit. USBXpressInstaller_x86 for Windows 32-bit. Right mouse click on the correct version for your Windows and select Run As Administrator to install the driver.

To download Silabs Driver v3.9.2: http://www.hdfury.com/tools/Silabs_Driver_v3.zip
- Unzip it and navigate to the inner most Silabs_Driver_v3 folder. Right mouse click on USBXpressInstaller application file and select Run as Administrator.

After installation of the Silabs driver is complete, reboot your PC, connect your device and wait for USB notification sound (first connection after drivers install always take more time than next one).

~Courtesy of Claw



GoBlue update procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=tJQVu4z_2ko



Fix for HIGH DPI settings with the VERTEX GUI:

Many of you may have noticed that by default the Vertex GUI doesn't play nicely with high resolution displays and/or scaling. Particularly with Windows 10.
The GUI is near-unusable (certainly unreadable) unless you drop to a lower DPI and/or resolution - at which point it may be very hard to read.

This is easy to fix in Windows 10, and I believe 8 as well:

Make sure the GUI isn't already running, then right click the GUI exe file (the regular one, there's no need to do this with the 200dpi version)

Click the "Compatibility" tab.
Look down for "Override high DPI scaling behavior" and check the box.
For the drop-down under "Scaling Performed by" choose "System - Enhanced"
Start the GUI and revel in how it works normally now.

If you are like me and have a 4k PJ/TV and use 300% DPI scaling for the desktop you will seriously appreciate this.

~Courtesy of Ix



====Firmware as of 21-December-18====

Vertex FW1.36.1.43 and GUI 1.34

Make sure to install Silabs driver first if you haven't yet done so.
This update IS mandatory (In case of any issue, it will be asked that you first update to this firmware version)

- Remember that after FPGA update, you must power cycle the Vertex and when you connect it back, the OLED will stay OFF for about 15s (time to apply the update internally), wait till OLED is back ON and then you can proceed normally.
- Easiest/Fastest/Recommended way: Update MCU, then Update FPGA, then powercycle. (if you was running FW1.36.37 or 1.36.1.41 or 1.36.1.42, you can skip MCU update)
- If you fine tuned your unit config and settings, export your config before update and import it back once update is completed.
- Once update is completed you might see a lock icon on the OLED top right corner, please do the combo trick: HOLD RST and PRESS INP 2 times, OLED will prompt for powercycle, simply remove/reconnect USB powercord (if you exported your config before update and imported back after update, you don't need to repeat this trick, the lock icon won't be visible)


##########> What's new/fixed in 1.36.1.43 and GUI 1.34

1. Oled showed HDR outgoing even when HDR was disabled - fixed


2. Improved autosense routines which would convert in some case to deep color even if input is not deep color. Modified and improved autosensing throughout direct paths, upscaling paths and downscaling paths.


3. Cleared Oled display bug that popped up since 1.36.1.41 (flashing character and extra character on some oled page)


4. Updated input routine for 4K24 422 12b and 4K60 422 12b now supporting more sources even if their timing are slightly off.




Download Link: https://hdfury.com/tools/Vertex_1.36.1.43_GUI_1.34.zip


The default Auto-Sense mode for Auto-Scaling (SCALE slide on AUTOSCALING) coupled with default Custom EDID (EDID slide on CUSTOM) should be enough to give you a picture in any setup.
If not, please remember than when using AUTOSCALING, you have access to 10 quick-presets that are specifically introduced for the TOP port down-scaling. (refer to usermanual p.14)
Auto Sense also upscale automatically except if manually turned OFF from GUI/APP/IR/RS232.



KNOWN ISSUES:
- For users of the first Vertex PCB version (PCB1) with HDMI active cable non powered by their own power supply, please refer to that post if you are experiencing issue. (You can easily isolate the issue by testing with 6-12ft copper)


For any support issue/question:
- Please export your vertexconfig.txt (GUI > FILE > EXPORT) when trying the signal through and having the issue (if possible) and attach it as a txt file in your post.
- If you cannot provide config file, then it's mandatory to confirm you are running the latest firmware 1.36.1.43.
- Issue Description, ultimately with Link to Display and/or AVR usermanual in PDF format and Link to any active or fiber cable in use.
- Always make conclusion and bug report using Wall Plug Adapter to power Vertex.
- If you have a lock icon on OLED top right corner: HOLD RST and press INP 2 times, Vertex OLED will prompt for powercycle (Remove/Reconnect USB powercord > lock icon will disappear after restart)
- Always describe your video chain path with brand/model of all equipment as well as hdmi cable length and type between them (ex: SOURCE Brand/Model > 6ft copper > Vertex INP0-OUT1> 6ft copper > AVR Brand/Model > etc...)

Example of video chain description:
Source Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > length of HDMI cable (and type: copper/active/fiber) > Brand/Model > etc...

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in one chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > X4200 > 6ft copper > LG C7

In a setup with X1X, Vertex, X4200 and LG C7, in split chain, it would look like:
X1X > 6ft copper > Vertex > 6ft copper > LG C7
---------------------------------> 6ft copper > X4200

====Q&A====


-Does the Vertex do frame rate conversion
No


-How do I connect the Vertex to a computer for firmware upgrade? Does it need less current in this case as for normal operation and and it is not required to have it connected to the power supply or are both Vertex and computer connected to the two USB ports of the power adapter and how exactly (port with one dot, port with two dots)?
-You connect the supplied USB powercord between your computer USB port and the Vertex USB port. If you just connect Vertex without any signal going through, power consumption is ridiculous, even if you play a signal at max speed power consumption doesn't exceed 1A, you would need to matrix two 18Gbps streams to go over 1A. Most computer USB port comes by 2 or 4, when 4 ports are available, it's usually one HUB ic sharing 5V2A for all 4 USB ports so each can get at least 0,5A (or 500mA) if they are all in use. So make sure if you want to use Vertex GUI software and play a signal at the same time that you don't have too many USB devices taking power at the same time. the Power adapter have 2 USB for convenience only, you can use any of them, so you can power Vertex and charge your phone at the same time if you want, or your joypad or your tablet, whatever...


-Okay, I have everything installed, but where do I begin?-
Here is a good starting point via HDFury:
To make it more easy for everyone, there is 2 easy way for Vertex:

1. AUTOMIX + NO SCALING (source will send a signal that always match max mixed capabilities of both displays), Note that if AVR support 300MHz and display support 600MHz, it might try to send 600MHz with full sound, in such case, you need to change automix algo from MAX VIDEO/MAX AUDIO, to MIN VIDEO/MAX AUDIO.

2. CUSTOM EDID + AUTOSCALING (This should be default testing setup for everyone)

The other way possible is if sinks support the capabilities set by CUSTOM EDID (CUSTOM EDID+ NO SCALING), for ex, if you have 18Gbps/600MHz sinks, you might want to use that mode.
Finally the advanced users way is CUSTOM EDID + CUSTOM SCALING. (it cannot work if sinks are not both 600MHz until you manually set CUSTOM SCALING rules)
All above is assuming Custom EDID is default MAX.
Reminder that the EDID determines what your source is seeing and will send. SCALER determines what Vertex will do with that signal and how it will output it.

-Is there Macro Control for the different modes?-
Yes, so far there is control for the JVC Projectors:
JVC calibration auto switch: 3D/x.v.color/SDR/HDR/HLG calibration autoswitch for 2015+ JVC PJs


JVC Macro not working?
Set the JVC to any mode but USER 1 [Note: in older models, RS-232 and IP control can't work at the same time, you have to select one or the other.
In 2015+ (and I think 2014 models) this isn't necessary and IP control works at the same time as RS-232].
Go to the RS232 tab in the Vertex GUI
Click "send test"
Until the JVC goes into User1, the RS232 control isn't working, so it's your cable (or the JVC) that doesn't work. It has nothing to do with the JVC Macro feature.
Please report back once you've got a working RS232-cable if you still have issues with the JVC Macro.
Recommended cables are listed in the original post about the Vertex JVC Macro feature, along with the pin assignment if you use your own cable.
See first post of the JVC Autocal thread in my sig for links to the Vertex related posts.


-OSD With Irule macro-
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-v...ury-vertex-owners-thread-26.html#post55210652


-Can I get ARC sound?-
If you want Vertex to retrieve ARC sound with Vertex, then VERTEX must be set as AUDIO SYSTEM with ARC under CEC devices settings (CEC must be enabled too).
Once this is done, the bottom output of Vertex must be connected to your TV ARC input and then you will have the TV ARC sound available at Vertex optical/analog out.
Optical is up to 5.1 and up to stereo for analog.
You can also just connect AVR ARC to TV ARC input and use Vertex thru another TV input if you don't want to use Vertex for ARC.
Latest Vertex firmware also allow to extract DD+ and ATMOS from TV APP and forward to AVR via optical (assuming your AVR support 192khz on optical input, very rare)


-What is the voltage of the TX/RX rs232 pins on the Vertex? I'm thinking of attaching it to raspberry pi serial port pins and need to know if it requires a level shifter from the default 3.3V levels on the pi.-
Yes need level shifter, Vertex is standard RS232, not an UART port.
voltage is around +-5V
Do not attach Pi to it without level shifter !


-What cables have been tested? or How should I place them-
- Any certified copper, active powered or fiber powered cable are ok.
For user with active cable non powered, read below.

Monoprice Active & NON-POWERED cable was received and tested today. (50ft version: order page)

First of all, my apologies because in my mind active cable meant powered.
It appears that Vertex have zero issue with any Active or Fiber as long as they are powered (that's why celerity tek had no issue in our tests, they are powered)

If people remember from Linker or Integral experience, when users had issue when trying to do:
... > AVR > 6ft HMDI > Integral or Linker > Long distance active not powered > Display

The recommendation was always to do:
... > AVR > Long distance active not powered > Integral or Linker > 6ft HDMI > Display

And the reason given was:
An AVR will always supply better 5V at output than a 5V device as driving copper is not powering active.

Well, it happens that the exact same situation apply to Vertex

As we ran and completed the cable tests, here is the data, info and conclusion we can make:
- Its an active cable that draws power from the +5 pin of the connector. It takes around 70mA which is like 350mW. It should give issue with some sources but not after an AVR.
- When connected to PC USB port, we get no signal (PC USB Port too weak, the cable does not activate at all). We measured around 4.23V at the +5 V pin and this apparently does not allow it to work at all. Too low.
- When connected to the Fury supply we measure around 4.5V at the +5 pin and we can see a picture but get little white dots here and there randomly which we know exactly are signal integrity issues and they are produced by the monoprice cable. (or any unpowered active cables)
- When connected a +5V source from our lab equipment rack then we get around 4.8V at the +5 pin and with this config we cannot see any white dots.

The issue is that those 5v cable drew too much voltage or that Vertex (or Integral or Linker) doesn't provide enough for them.
The snow/stripes customer sees are not related to sync or hdcp, they are signal integrity issues (which can ultimately lead to sync issue)

Tests were made with 50ft, shorter might give better results, longer surely worst. The longer the cable the more underpowered it will be.
And when device is underpowered, anything can happen, Vertex might not sync since there is nothing to sync with Or vertex sees a device which suddenly goes away or in an endless loop.

Two possibilities/solutions: (that also apply to Linker/Integral)

1. Using shorter/thicker USB cord from PSU to Vertex can help. We will of course also start sourcing thicker cable and start shipping them with all our devices as it can help supporting such cables.
Thicker cable will have less Voltage loss.

2. Use 5.15V or so Power supply. We will there also also modify our power supply to offer more support for such cables in the future, this might takes a while for us.
You can try using tablet or smartphone charger in the meantime or a specialized USB power source.

Current power supply gives 5V, but since Vertex takes like 0.6A and some of the voltage is lost on the cable itself. At the input of Vertex USB, the voltage is already like 4.75
increasing to 5.1 or 5.2V means that under heavy load the input voltage is around 4.8-4.85 and under light load could be exactly 5.0
right now using the 5.0V supply the light load voltage is around 4.8-4.85 (some might work better than others)

All the above is really ONLY relevant for such non-powered active cables and exclusively at output.

Bottom line for Vertex users with such non powered active cable at Vertex output:


- You can move Vertex after it, so active cable is at input.
- You can replace it by powered active or fiber.
- You can try getting thicker/shorter USB powercord.
- You can try another PSU from smartphone or tablet
- You can use a specialized USB power source.
- You can try power injector (take care of artifacts at 600MHz)
- You can use our Universal Power Supply, output 1 offers 5.25V
 
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1
#2 · (Edited)
I'm trying to figure out what the Vertex actually does as it appears it is a Linker and Integral all in one. The website is vague. Can it do more than these two devices? I'm a current Integral owner and was looking at a Linker for a while, but now that the Vertex is coming up I'm just now a bit confused.
Ok, first you can have a look here: https://www.hdfury.com/comparison

I'll try to summarize a few points below:

Integral is 18Gbps Splitter and 10.2 Gbps Matrix.
Linker is 18Gbps Scaler

Vertex is 18Gbps Splitter/Matrix/Scaler and can scale each channel individually as explained previously in the thread that disappeared, with Vertex ultimately you can input input 4K downscale to 1080p, apply treatment from external 1080p box to the signal and inject back into Vertex secondary channel that will upscale back to 4K at the end. this particular situation show how versatile it can be as it would require 2 Linker to do the same.
So basically it's like INTEGRAL + 2 Linker combined.

Vertex have higher signal integrity than Integral and will support more marginal cables for 600MHz.

Vertex have OLED and multiple info pages on it that will provide all information you ever wanted to have or know and those you didn't even knew they existed.
It provides more infos than Linker or Integral at first sight without need of GUI, APP or anything. it's all available at sight and from your fingertips at anytime.

Vertex also offers OSD fully customizable in colors, position, transparency, and that can be used for others purpose that signal info, removing annoying tv channel logo, or displaying custom text, etc...
Integral or Linker does not have any of this.

Vertex can cipher and decipher HDR metadata in real time, have VSIF injection/extraction/replacement, once again neither Integral or Linker have any of this. (those are for power users or content creators mainly)

Vertex have the most advanced Windows GUI we ever did, and except the fact that our GUI doesn't scale well on all display resolutions, we are known to have some of the most advanced GUI in our field.
It's oriented and made for all the guys who was in touch with us here, you can EXPORT, IMPORT and share your config with others users. once again, Integral and Linker do not have those.

I'll stop listing here, as we can add a lot of some others small things, like RS232 and possible external add ons, etc...

Bottom line: This is not marketing gimmick, we tried to build the ultimate AV toolbox and our guys worked extremely hard on it as they put all they had into it to celebrate our 10th anniversary, we are proud of work done till now on it and we believe it's a great and amazing platform and that's why we are offering a dream ticket to switch to it.

Now if you want to know, does it switch faster or sync faster on JVC PJ, or upscale quality or others stuff like that, please wait Beta testers feedback (Claw and Manni on AVSforum), as we let real non affiliated users provide such information as always.
 
#243 ·
Vertex is 18Gbps Splitter/Matrix/Scaler and can scale each channel individually as explained previously in the thread that disappeared, with Vertex ultimately you can input input 4K downscale to 1080p, apply treatment from external 1080p box to the signal and inject back into Vertex secondary channel that will upscale back to 4K at the end. this particular situation show how versatile it can be as it would require 2 Linker to do the same.
So basically it's like INTEGRAL + 2 Linker combined.
So if I understand this I can downsample a UHD-HDR source, apply tone mapping with my eeColor, and then upsample UHD to the display? I can imagine that the two scalings might introduce artifacts or otherwise degrade the source resolution won't it?

(Also this assumes that the display can be put into HDR mode without using it's own tone mapping)
 
#3 ·
Thanks. I own a 2014 model JVC PJ (1.4b). What is Manni01 and Claw using? I'm curious about the signal integrity as I currently have to run a signal booster on a 30 foot cable, without it I cannot resolve 4k @60hz. I'd love to ditch the booster as it is far from perfect.
 
#5 ·
Can the Vertex perform a vertical stretch for watching 2.35:1 content without letterbox bars on a Constant Height screen with a projector and anamorphic lens?
 
#34 · (Edited)
Just to give some quick feedback about my beta-testing with the Vertex as I just found out about this thread.

Here's my Setup:

Sources: Panasonic UB-900 (UHD Bluray and UHD streaming), Sony BD-S570 (mostly for my x.v.color Min4K bluray collection), HTPC with nVidia 1080 Ti (MyMovies/MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR to play DVDs, Bluray, 3D Bluray and 4K/UHD SDR/HDR demo content), Humax TN5000HD (Satbox) to
AVR: Denon X7200WA (playing Atmos/DTS:X/Auro 3D on a 10.2.11 layout) to
Vertex: BOT in from X7200, BOT Out to
Display: JVC RS500 (X7000)

No Dolby Vision, no HLG tested. Otherwise, I've tested pretty much everything, from SD to UHD, SDR, HDR, 2D/3D, x.v.color...

I used an Integral and a Linker before, so the Vertex replaced both.

I never had the issues Claw had re long times syncing or instability with the Linker, so there is little improvement for me re sync times, it's still about 15-20 seconds when changing refresh rate/resolution. My HTPC is set to 4K23p and upscales everything with MadVR, so there is almost no resync as long as I stick to 23p HD/Full HD/UHD (99% of my content). It only needs to sync for the occasional PAL/NTSC DVD (refresh rate change) or 3D Bluray (resolution change).

The main improvement for me stability-wise is that I had problems with 3D bluray from my HTPC with the Linker (not from a dedicated bluray/UHD Bluray player), and that's completely solved with the Vertex. I'm having intermittent issues with the nVidia drivers / Windows 10 to get stereoscopic 3D to stick, but the Vertex has nothing to do with that (they happen without the Vertex in the chain).

The Vertex has been very stable for me, and I appreciate a lot all the info available on the OSD (I don't use the OLED screen except for debugging, so it's switched off most of the time).
We can now have all the HDR metadata instantly decoded, including gamut primaries and white point, as well as detailed audio info when available.

The "disable HDR" works just as well as with the Linker fro my JVC andallows me to enable the DI in HDR and permanently select my custom gamma curve without Gamma D being forced on me. I control the Vertex with iRule using IP2IR. It works great, and it allows me, for example, to go automatically from EDID 2 for all my sources to EDID 20 for my Humax, which doesn't even display anything on the JVC without the Vertex (or the Integral/Linker) unless I switch the JVC HDMI input to compatiblity (B) mode.

One of the last things I was missing from my old Radiance Mini-3D was the ability to know exactly what the source/AVR was sending to the display, especially re colorspace, chroma subsampling, refresh rate, etc. With the Vertex, I have all this information on the OSD (and more) and it's priceless for testing/debugging/troubleshooting.

Of course, there were a few minor issues (to be expected with a beta f/w and a prototype unit) and I've made a few suggestions for features, many of which are already implemented. Overall it's impressively stable. I've seen manufacturers sending final products out that were less stable than this!

I'm extremely happy with the upgrade from my Integral/Linker combo, and I'm looking forward to testing the next version of the Vertex f/w.
 
#35 ·
November cant come fast enough!

pre-order sent in yesterday :)

To replace my Integral, and add the features of a Linker
(Primary use for Custom HDR curves on my JVC with an enabled Dynamic Iris)

Just curious how the heck the "Remove TV Station Logo" feature works?
as a former Kuro Plasma fan, and now have an LG OLED,
... that almost sounds too good to be true to help eliminate screen burn in risk!

I bet many OLED owners in those burn-in/image retention threads haven't even heard of the Vertex.
If it works as I think it reads, this could be Huge!
 
#36 ·
You just draw a box where you want and apply color or transparency you want to attenuate or remove channel logo or others annoying stuff.
Since the device have OSD, we let you play and create things with it, like display text you want, later it might offer to display internet data of your choice too.
 
#37 · (Edited)
As Manni mentioned the OSD is a great new feature. The OSD has a "Fade" option that I use. You set it to the number of seconds you want the OSD to be displayed on screen. Then it fades away. I set it to 30 seconds. The OSD reappears any time there is an input format change.

In my earlier post I described Vertex functionality with it placed between my Oppo and Denon x4200w AVR. I now have it placed between my AVR and JVC RS500. I have the Vertex configured to EDID 2. I also tested with EDID 8 but since I have found no issue with the higher capabilities of EDID 2 I leave it selected. I also have the Disable HDR checkbox set that keeps the RS500 dynamic iris enabled and disables the auto-selection of the JVC HDR Gamma D.

I have the following components connected to my AVR which then feeds the Vertex:

  1. Oppo 203 UHD player for UHD Blu Ray discs.
  2. Samsung K8500 UHD player for Amazon Video and Netflix content including 4K/24 HDR, and YouTube SDR content up to 4K60.
  3. Windows 8.1 HTPC set to 1080p/23 resolution with Total Media Theater playing Blu Ray ISO files.
  4. Directv C61K 4K box sending up to 4K60 SDR to my HDFury Integral then to the Denon AVR.
Note that the reason I have the Directv box connected to the Integral and then to the AVR is that I determined that connecting it directly to the Integral or Vertex resolved an issue where changing channels from 4K60 to a lower resolution resulted in an HDMI signal loss. It seems there must be some incompatibility between the C61K and my Denon AVR. Passing the signal through the Integral before it gets to the Denon seems to resolve that issue.

I use 6 foot HDMI cables purchased from HDFury.com to connect the players to the Denon AVR and from the AVR to the Vertex. I use a 25 foot Blue Jeans Cable Series-1e HDMI cable from the Vertex to my JVC RS500 projector.

To test the capabilities of the Vertex to upscale 1080p content to 4K and handle input signal changes, I configured the Vertex Scalar to scale 1080p/24 to 4K/24 and 1080p/60 to 4K/60. Because the Directv box outputs 720p and 1080i which the Vertex cannot scale, I have my Denon scale those formats to 1080p before reaching the Vertex. Then the Vertex scales:

  • HTPC 1080p/23 output to 4K/23.
  • Directv C61K/Denon scaled 1080p/60 output to 4K/60.
With this configuration of players and scaling, everything I throw at the Vertex is successful. I can have all players sending signals to my AVR simultaneously and switch the active AVR HDMI input among each of the players with no HDMI sync failures in either the Vertex or the JVC RS500. This includes both HDCP 1.4 and HDCP 2.2 inputs to the Vertex depending upon the player. Even with the Vertex set to output HDCP 2.2 I have no HDMI sync loss. It is so great to be able to reliably change the AVR active input to any of the players and never have to initiate an HDMI resync by either changing EDID, or restarting various components. I have not yet encountered any HDMI sync failure when powering up the components either.

I also find that the HDMI sync time in the JVC appears to be few seconds less when placing the Vertex after the AVR instead of in front. I did not see this behavior with either the Integral or Linker as both locations resulted in sync times that were longer than I hoped for. I haven't accurately timed the sync yet but it seems like the Vertex is adding only a couple of seconds at most beyond what I would typically see with the JVC projector and no HDFury device in the chain. As I mentioned in my previous post, The JVC HDMI sync process is much smoother with the Vertex than with either the Integral or Linker.
 
#40 · (Edited)
I initially chose the Integral over the Linker because if the Android APP on my phone/tablet
for switching EDID 8 EDID 10, (HDR SDR) for use with my Panasonic UB900.
The Linker would have been a pain to run through my laptop GUI for every change.

I just noticed that listed on the Vertex page there is an Optional Bluetooth Dongle ($49)
Please tell me I don't tell me I need to buy that too in order to use my smartphone/tablet now?

I really don't want to spend another $50 to use a free app,
but I don't want to have to get up every time I need to access the Vertex info or make EDID change.
(or to access signal info on-screen)

Next Question/Comment,

I run my Integral After the AVR (Yamaha RX-A3050) and then a 40' run to my JVC
(Cheap High Speed Redmere Active cable from IOGear that sent 4K 24 HDR 4:4:412Bit with no issue)
The Integral would not work before the AVR (All short cables are from HDFury, bought the 4 pack)

The only Movie that stressed my 40' cable was Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk
that played 4k/60 4:2:0 10Bit on the JVC (4K60 4:2:2 12Bit on the OLED with HDFury short Cable)
Sometimes I had to power cycle my AVR to get a solid connection through the long cable run.

My other HDMI out from my AVR is a short 6' run to my LG OLED
When the JVC was turned off and the Integral was left on,
I could not get HDR to work on the OLED unless I turned the Integral off.

I'm guessing my AVR saw the Integral as an HDMI device that was not HDR compatible
If the JVC was not powered up (even if it was last set on the EDID for HDR on the JVC) ?

I never had any issues running the JVC and OLED simultaneously from the two HDMI outs from the Yamaha,
But both had to be in HDR or Both without, could not do one without the other.
(Obviously there was never a need to turn HDR off for the OLED or fool it to enable a dynamic iris ;) )

I'm guessing I wont want the Vertex before the AVR,
since I have two very different needs from the 2 HDMI outs of the AVR.

The question then becomes do I only want to use 1 HDMI out from the AVR to the Vertex,
and connect both displays to the Vertex instead, are there limitations doing that?
 
#44 · (Edited)
I initially chose the Integral over the Linker because if the Android APP on my phone/tablet
for switching EDID 8 EDID 10, (HDR SDR) for use with my Panasonic UB900.
The Linker would have been a pain to run through my laptop GUI for every change.

I just noticed that listed on the Vertex page there is an Optional Bluetooth Dongle ($40)
Please tell me I don't tell me I need to buy that too in order to use my smartphone/tablet now?

I really don't want to spend another $40 to use a free app,
but I don't want to have to get up every time I need to access the Vertex info or make EDID change.

Next Question/Comment,

I run my Integral After the AVR (Yamaha RX-A3050) and then a 40' run to my JVC
(Cheap High Speed Redmere Active cable from IOGear that sent 4K 24 HDR 4:4:412Bit with no issue)
The Integral would not work before the AVR (All short cables are from HDFury, bought the 4 pack)

The only Movie that stressed my 40' cable was Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk
that played 4k/60 4:2:0 10Bit on the JVC (4K60 4:2:2 12Bit on the OLED with HDFury short Cable)
Sometimes I had to power cycle my AVR to get a solid connection through the long cable run.

My other HDMI out from my AVR is a short 6' run to my LG OLED
When the JVC was turned off and the Integral was left on,
I could not get HDR to work on the OLED unless I turned the Integral off.

I'm guessing my AVR saw the Integral as an HDMI device that was not HDR compatible
If the JVC was not powered up (even if it was last set on the EDID for HDR on the JVC) ?

I never had any issues running the JVC and OLED simultaneously from the two HDMI outs from the Yamaha,
But both had to be in HDR or Both without, could not do one without the other.
(Obviously there was never a need to turn HDR off for the OLED or fool it to enable a dynamic iris ;) )

I'm guessing I wont want the Vertex before the AVR,
since I have two very different needs from the 2 HDMI outs of the AVR.

The question then becomes do I only want to use 1 HDMI out from the AVR to the Vertex,
and connect both displays to the Vertex instead, are there limitations doing that?
GoBlue is mandatory to control any current and upcoming HDfury devices by iOS/Android APP or IR.
So with same GoBlue you can control Integral, Linker, Vertex and AVRkey.

Having Bluetooth module in such small enclosure going up to 600MHz will affect the Bluetooth range, you can ask anyone who ever used GoBlue, it's way faster and more reliable for long distance than integrated bluetooth module.
So it has been a design choice and we are very satisfied with the results.

I don't see any limitations in doing 1 in, 2 out to 2 different displays, it's made for that (among others)

Regarding Integral in your setup, and the below issue you reported:

When the JVC was turned off and the Integral was left on,
I could not get HDR to work on the OLED unless I turned the Integral off.

I'm guessing my AVR saw the Integral as an HDMI device that was not HDR compatible
If the JVC was not powered up (even if it was last set on the EDID for HDR on the JVC) ?
If you can reproduce and take gui screenshots of your settings, we can more likely help for that i guess.
if you want so please proceed and provide brand/model for AVR as well please. (preferably in Integral thread)
 
#49 ·
The GoBlue requirement was also mentioned in the unfortunately now-dead Linker thread. It was clearly stated that it was required for the Linker for Bluetooth control using either the Apple or Android App, and that GoBlue would be required for all future devices. So I understood even then that the yet unnamed future Vertex device would also require a GoBlue device for Bluetooth and/or IR control.

I purchased my Linker and GoBlue devices as soon as each was made available for order. While I had to place my Integral in the very front of my AV closet in order to get a Bluetooth connection from my main seating position 15 feet away, using the GoBlue with the Linker allowed me to place the Linker out of sight behind all the components with the HDMI cables.
 
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#50 · (Edited)
Okay, I'm sold on adding the GoBlue. :eek:
Who am I kidding, Gotta have all the toys right?

So How do I add it to my existing Vertex order so they ship together?
..or do I have to place separate order and pay another $24 for shipping fee's?

If I have to pay another shipping fee, plus $USD exchange rate, the $49 GoBlue will cost me $100CAN :eek:

You may want to add the GoBlue as a drop down option on the Vertex order page,
at the very least it may prompt those like me who didn't choose to browse through your accessories pages to find info on it.

If it was an option I probably would have investigated further before placing my Vertex order,
 
#54 ·
Looking at the OSD screenshot, what is the reference to P3/DCi? UHD Blu uses the 2020 color space, not P3. I understand that the gamut coverage is currently no wider than P3, but it is NOT P3 encoded (completely different RGB values, and P3 isn't even possible in consumer YCbCr video).
 
#56 · (Edited)
I assumed it was the mastering monitor gamut, I thought that was included in the metadata.
Hi Kris,

As Stanger said, this is the mastering display gamut reported in the metadata. This is why I asked HD Fury to indicate this with an "MTR", to make it clear that it's not content primaries.

All consumer HDR content is mastered to BT2020 (the container) so there is no need to report that (although the player, for example the UB900, does it).

The calibration should be BT2020, but almost all titles currently available report that the mastering monitor used only had P3 capabilities (hence the content is P3 within a BT2020 container).

It's useful to know this, because as the first titles mastered with BT2020 capabilities are starting to be released, we might decide to use a different calibration for "actual P3" titles and "actual BT2020" titles.

For the first ones, calibrating to P3 within BT2020 (P3 coordinates but BT2020 saturation) will be enough, while for the others there might be a benefit to calibrate to BT2020, if the end user display supports more than P3.

There is a possible brightness loss associated to a wider gamut, so there is no point in using for example a filter to go beyond P3 if there is nothing in the content (DCI-P3 mastering display primaries reported in the metadata), otherwise it can be beneficial to suffer the brightness loss to display the wider BT2020 gamut, as we know there is (or should be) data beyond DCI-P3 in the content (BT2020 mastering display primaries reported).

Makes sense? I knew this would happen, hence the MTR which will be explained in the documentation when the product it released.
 
#58 ·
A bit more feedback on the Vertex as I progress with my testing:

- I tested the scaling/splitting ability of the Vertex with my Dell PC Monitor (a 1080p HDMI 1.3 model) and it works great. I can have, at the same time (provided the refresh rate is supported by the monitor as the Vertex cannot do frame conversion/interpolation, so for example can't convert 23p to 60p if your display doesn't support 23p) the source playing to both the JVC and the Dell, 4K/UHD full bandwidth (UHD 12bits 4:4:4) on the JVC and downscaled 1080p 4:4:4 8bits to the Dell. It's great to check quickly on settings without having to switch the projector on, and also to see what the source is saying while the JVC resyncs.

- For iRule users (and users of other universal remotes), I've asked HD Fury to check if an EDID mode is already selected when receiving an IR command to change EDID, and to discard it if the requested mode is already active. This means that if you send a specific EDID for a source, the IR/IP command will only cause a resync if the requested EDID isn't already active. For example, I have iRule send EDID 2 for all my 4K source, and EDID 20 for my old Humax TN5000HD. So in case I was using the TN5000HD, I have to send EDID 2 on entry for each of the 4K sources, just like I send EDID 20 on entry to the TN5000HD panel. Before this change, if I left my 4KUHD bluray panel for the AVR panel, an unnecessary resync happened when coming back to the 4K UHD Bluray panel because it would send again the EDID 2 command. Now, it checks, sees that EDID 2 is already active, and there is no resync. I will only get a resync if I go to the TN5000HD or if I come back from it. As we know, JVC resyncs are long (15-20 seconds), so getting rid of unnecessary ones is very nice, I'm sure others will appreciate this.

The new f/w received today also brings much improvement on the OSD, we can display the incoming metadata as well as the outcoming metadata, along with all the additions already mentioned (gamut/white point for the mastering display, available audio info, etc).

The Vertex is coming along very well, and everything is super stable here with the latest f/w.
 
#59 ·
A bit more feedback on the Vertex as I progress with my testing:

- I tested the scaling/splitting ability of the Vertex with my Dell PC Monitor (a 1080p HDMI 1.3 model) and it works great. I can have, at the same time (provided the refresh rate is supported by the monitor as the Vertex cannot do frame conversion/interpolation, so for example can't convert 23p to 60p if your display doesn't support 23p) the source playing to both the JVC and the Dell, 4K/UHD full bandwidth (UHD 12bits 4:4:4) on the JVC and downscaled 1080p 4:4:4 8bits to the Dell. It's great to check quickly on settings without having to switch the projector on, and also to see what the source is saying while the JVC resyncs.
I connected a 1080p TV to the Vertex Top output that supports down scaling. Configured the Scalar to scale 4K60 and 4K30 to 1080p60/30. Played a UHD Blu Ray disc from my Oppo player and got 4k/24 BT.2020 HDR to my JVC and 1080p to my TV simultaneously. Although I did not get audio to my TV.
 
#61 ·
Vertex improvement continues...

If user selects Matrix Thru/Swap, an additional line now appears for RX1 and RX0 as you can see from attached picture.
Also, a separate Edid for each input port is now available.
The Port1 is by default "Follow port 0" so you can just select port 0 custom EDID and it will be applied to both. However, if you open Port1 pull down menu you can select separately for it.
 

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#62 ·
Can the vertex or Integral and linker for that matter, downscale (for lack of a better term) 4K/60 to 4K/24?
 
#63 ·
No, that's frame conversion/frame interpolation that requires a lot more processing power (hence a lot more expensive devices).
The Linker/Vertex do up/downscaling of resolution/bit depth/chroma subsampling, not frame conversion/interpolation.
 
#64 ·
I tried to download firmware + IR code list but the download bar in the browser doesn't pop up. Is this blocked until release date?
I would like the prepare the IR command list into the iRule database to kill some time before 1 november.
I did the Integral previously and it still gets daily use through my remote setup. :)
 
#65 ·
We will start adding them shortly as it get close to what we want for launch.

And to please a few, we just added RS232 total control support.

examples of the rs232 interface
#set hdrstr 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80:3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01
#set hdrcustom on

The above just send the hdr string over console and enable the injection.
this process can easily be automated now (to control from LINUX/MAC/WIN) and not just WIN.
We've been adding all commands and documenting it in a .doc file

#set edidmode automix
#set edidtable 8
 
#66 · (Edited)
My X950 is connected with celerity cable from my HDMI 1 out from my CXA 5100 yamaha pre/pro to the HDMI 1 input in the pj. How am I going to put the vertex, since there's no small celerity cables such as one or two meters. If I can use another high speed HDMI cable, the vertex will be placed before or after the yamaha? By the way, my BD 205 is just about to come. Does the vertex used to strip metadata is able to supress the stripping metadata of the Oppo 205, so it won`t happen the black crushing. Forgive me if I understood wrong.
 
#67 · (Edited)
You can use any high speed cable, Vertex is less sensitive to cable issue than Integral.
You can place it before AVR if you need it for one source or two sources only, or you can place it after AVR if you need it for all sources connected to your AVR.

You can also place it before AVR for one source and after AVR for all sources at the same time using the 18Gbps Matrix.
 
#70 ·
The details of scaling algo are not available at the moment, so we cannot confirm for sure how it is done but we have room to offer control over it, which means that the scaling algo parameters are not fixed and you will be able to play with the variable at some time (need some more GUI work for that).
It could be deducted from the output if internal sampling was 4:4:4, but for this we first need to unlock all possible parameters and variables. so that's typically a question we might be able to answer at release or shortly after.
 
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