Darbee vs. 4K/HDR - I prefer the Darbee... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-31-2017, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Darbee vs. 4K/HDR - I prefer the Darbee...

I have a pretty current home theater. In addition to alot of other gear, I have a JVC RS600 along with a Denon RS4300 and a Sony X800 UHD player. I Also have a Samsung BDJ6300 Blu-ray player running into a Darbee 5000 and a DVDO iscan mini and I have to say I prefer the picture quality I get out of old-school blu ray when compared to 4K UHD from my Sony UHD player. Not having the Darbee and the iscan in the chain (because they are not compatible) results in a seemingly less detailed picture when watching UHD. Before someone asks, I am using a vertex and manni's curves to calibrate UHD. I still prefer the sharpness and addtional shadow detail over the WCG/HDR. Does anyone else feel similarly or am I just crazy? I feel like I am alone in this respect. It seems like no one really cares about the Darbee w/ 1080p anymore, but I think it is an absolute necessity. I really wish they would put something out that offers the same processing for 4K.

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post #2 of 27 Old 12-31-2017, 06:25 PM
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Have used and loved the original darbee for years. Such an amazing upgrade in such a flimsy, poorly produced product(at least the first one was).Now I wait for the 4K version that may never arrive.Why this company did not become a powerhouse in home theater is criminal.

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post #3 of 27 Old 12-31-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post
I have a pretty current home theater. In addition to alot of other gear, I have a JVC RS600 along with a Denon RS4300 and a Sony X800 UHD player. I Also have a Samsung BDJ6300 Blu-ray player running into a Darbee 5000 and a DVDO iscan mini and I have to say I prefer the picture quality I get out of old-school blu ray when compared to 4K UHD from my Sony UHD player. Not having the Darbee and the iscan in the chain (because they are not compatible) results in a seemingly less detailed picture when watching UHD. Before someone asks, I am using a vertex and manni's curves to calibrate UHD. I still prefer the sharpness and addtional shadow detail over the WCG/HDR. Does anyone else feel similarly or am I just crazy? I feel like I am alone in this respect. It seems like no one really cares about the Darbee w/ 1080p anymore, but I think it is an absolute necessity. I really wish they would put something out that offers the same processing for 4K.
Sorry I have to disagree with you. Fat chance

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post #4 of 27 Old 12-31-2017, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I have to disagree with you. Fat chance
Do you even have a Darbee? You provide no detail to support your thinking. Atleast i offered an informed opinion.
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post #5 of 27 Old 12-31-2017, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Have used and loved the original darbee for years. Such an amazing upgrade in such a flimsy, poorly produced product(at least the first one was).Now I wait for the 4K version that may never arrive.Why this company did not become a powerhouse in home theater is criminal.
I couldn't agree more. The Darbee technology should have been licensed to every major display and video processing manufacturing company in the world. If they had properly managed and marketed the IP, Darbee would be a household name. With the death of the founder, the company has really struggled to do simple things like maintain inventory and develop new sales channels. I can't but think their days are numbered. However, perhaps the right PE firm could scale this business.
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-01-2018, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nohjy View Post
I have a pretty current home theater. In addition to alot of other gear, I have a JVC RS600 along with a Denon RS4300 and a Sony X800 UHD player. I Also have a Samsung BDJ6300 Blu-ray player running into a Darbee 5000 and a DVDO iscan mini and I have to say I prefer the picture quality I get out of old-school blu ray when compared to 4K UHD from my Sony UHD player. Not having the Darbee and the iscan in the chain (because they are not compatible) results in a seemingly less detailed picture when watching UHD. Before someone asks, I am using a vertex and manni's curves to calibrate UHD. I still prefer the sharpness and addtional shadow detail over the WCG/HDR. Does anyone else feel similarly or am I just crazy? I feel like I am alone in this respect. It seems like no one really cares about the Darbee w/ 1080p anymore, but I think it is an absolute necessity. I really wish they would put something out that offers the same processing for 4K.
I have to agree. I have the Oppo 103D and the Darbee effect with blu ray looks just as good as 4K HDR10 on my OPPO 203. Sure there is a wider color gamut with HDR10, but for overall picture quality I still prefer the 103D with blu ray. The problem with HDR10 on my OLED is that OLED peaks out around 650 nits, and most HDR10 movies are mastered to peak out at 1000 nits or higher, which causes clipping on OLED. DV HDR is another story, and I do prefer that over both SDR blu ray and HDR10.
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post #7 of 27 Old 01-03-2018, 01:39 AM
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I prefer the 1080p+darbee. I own an Epson 2150 connected to darbee and PS4. I was curious to how my setup would compare to a 4k projector and if I should upgrade. So I went to best buy to sample a 4k projector. I sampled the Epson 6040 and Sony 285. Oddly I wasn't impressed. I don't know if its because the projectors at best buy were not calibrated or if they lost picture quality due to being ran all day. Overall I thought my setup looked better.
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-04-2018, 05:00 PM
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I purchased a Darbee Darblet years ago when it was first released, still use it everyday, it became a necessary add-on for my HD content viewing and still LOVE IT !

I had it originally connected inline to my Runco LED projector and always felt the results were stunning but 4 months ago i decided to join the 4K bandwagon and purchased a Sony XBR-940E UHDTV. As expected, connecting the Darbee to it brings the picture to another level of excellence, perhaps even surpassing what it achieved with the projector.

With bluray titles that have very little video noise to begin with i see no side effects of cranking the Darbee control as high as 85 which gives the picture a level of single pixel contrast enhancement and improved detail as to make it look 3D-like.

Based on what i have been reading concerning quite a few bluray HDR titles displaying poor elevated/fluctuating black levels, noticeable image blooming, poor performance of low-level details at near black, bandings, etc, i have no interest as of now in buying a 4K bluray player plus those more expensive 4K bluray titles when i am already so satisfied with my current Oppo 103 player.

As for the missing WCG offered by HDR, i simply leave the color control on my Sony 940E at native ("oversaturated" R/G/B primaries according to reviews, but i see minimum "oversaturation" because the primaries color points still follow a very accurate REC 709 "triangle" and skin tones appear not oversaturated at all to my eyes), plus i also set the "X-tended Dynamic Range" control at maximum to give standard HD content an HDR brightness boost.

P.S. : i also have a DVDO Iscan Mini connected inline right before the Darbee Darblet and use its video processing as well, although set at low level enhancements for a little extra image detail boosting.

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post #9 of 27 Old 01-05-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I have to agree. I have the Oppo 103D and the Darbee effect with blu ray looks just as good as 4K HDR10 on my OPPO 203. Sure there is a wider color gamut with HDR10, but for overall picture quality I still prefer the 103D with blu ray. The problem with HDR10 on my OLED is that OLED peaks out around 650 nits, and most HDR10 movies are mastered to peak out at 1000 nits or higher, which causes clipping on OLED. DV HDR is another story, and I do prefer that over both SDR blu ray and HDR10.
I've almost the same setup (Oppo 103/external darbee / mCable to an OLED E6) and I couldn't agree more.
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-07-2018, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dastodavid View Post
I prefer the 1080p+darbee. I own an Epson 2150 connected to darbee and PS4. I was curious to how my setup would compare to a 4k projector and if I should upgrade. So I went to best buy to sample a 4k projector. I sampled the Epson 6040 and Sony 285. Oddly I wasn't impressed. I don't know if its because the projectors at best buy were not calibrated or if they lost picture quality due to being ran all day. Overall I thought my setup looked better.
Best Buy is super handy for lots of electronics-related shopping, but their projector demos are usually not the best. For example, some of the same equipment in a local high-end speciality A/V store looks much better. I have a Sony 385 (purchased at BB) and tweaking it for my light-controlled dedicated theater room results in a spectacular picture.

TL;DR... IMHO you can't really base an opinion about a projector from the Best Buy demo room experience. That being said, I'm generally a big fan of Best Buy.
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-07-2018, 08:15 AM
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I have to agree. I literally just setup a 5040UB and Sony UDP X800 in my home theatre 2 days ago replacing my 5030UB with Darbee and Sony BDP S6500, and after calibrating I have to say I prefer the calibrated 5030UB running darbee (I have the original see through blinking light plastic one). And when Epson released their super resolution firmware 112 for the 5030UB the game was really over, I hope they do that with the 5040UB.

It really is a shame Darbee has no news of a 4k capable device. I hope if the company folds they will sell the tech to another video processing company to at least get SOMETHING out there for the people, it really was a revolutionary device, I'm going to put it in my livingroom for my 55" 1080p tv, can't shelve it yet.
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-08-2018, 10:24 AM
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When you see a proper display properly calibrated for HDR there is no comparison whatsoever IMO. My Oppo 203 and Pannasonic UB900 upscale better than Darbee.
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-14-2018, 05:11 PM
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When you see a proper display properly calibrated for HDR there is no comparison whatsoever IMO. My Oppo 203 and Pannasonic UB900 upscale better than Darbee.
I won't argue with you if your tv is calibrated properly for HDR it will look really good, but with my E6, even the 1000 nits masters are clipped on the upper because the tv can only max at 650 nits. For blu ray, I have the 203, and the 103D with darbee effect looks a lot better than the 203. The 203 looks softer. Once OPPO can fix the strip metadata feature where it doesn't crush everything below 2%, I will force the OPPO to send HDR2020 as SDR2020.
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post #14 of 27 Old 01-15-2018, 10:38 AM
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i have one on the way. looking forward to see what it looks like on BenQ W1070.
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-19-2018, 08:44 AM
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Hi,

I don't have a pj but do own a darbee 5000s and iscan mini along with dvdo duo and I prefer the picture also I will test it with my new 4k tv.

Also I read on Darbee Facebook page that they will he releasing a 4k version.

Thanks

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post #16 of 27 Old 01-20-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by a5ian300zx View Post
Hi,

I don't have a pj but do own a darbee 5000s and iscan mini along with dvdo duo and I prefer the picture also I will test it with my new 4k tv.

Also I read on Darbee Facebook page that they will he releasing a 4k version.

Thanks

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Here's what they posted 4 weeks ago on their facebook page:

"Making a product is a completely different endeavor than developing the image processing technology IP. We have no announcements for a product."

I would imagine they are developing the tech. to sell to other companies to incorporate into their products...which would be great. I would still prefer they have a stand alone product from Darbee.
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-20-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rboster View Post
Here's what they posted 4 weeks ago on their facebook page:

"Making a product is a completely different endeavor than developing the image processing technology IP. We have no announcements for a product."

I would imagine they are developing the tech. to sell to other companies to incorporate into their products...which would be great. I would still prefer they have a stand alone product from Darbee.
DarbeeVision Inc.

· December 2017·

@darb
eeVision, we always like to see solid specifications, however with technical specs that are not friendly to understand, the consumer is likely to simply get more confused. Terms like #peak_luminance , #nits , #black_levels , #global_dimming , #local_dimming , #standard_color , #high_color_gamut , #standard_dynamic_range , #high_dynamic_range ...how is a consumer supposed to sort out all the possible combinations and determine whether their purchase choice fits their needs, desires, interests. Fortunately, with #DARBEE_Visual_Presence (DVP), it is easy to understand. #DVP simply gives everything more depth, clarity and realism. DVP for #4K #UHD #HDR is coming in 2018, and it is going to prove that fidelity is not the endpoint of #image_quality !

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post #18 of 27 Old 01-20-2018, 09:53 PM
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DarbeeVision Inc.

· December 2017·

@darb
eeVision, we always like to see solid specifications, however with technical specs that are not friendly to understand, the consumer is likely to simply get more confused. Terms like #peak_luminance , #nits , #black_levels , #global_dimming , #local_dimming , #standard_color , #high_color_gamut , #standard_dynamic_range , #high_dynamic_range ...how is a consumer supposed to sort out all the possible combinations and determine whether their purchase choice fits their needs, desires, interests. Fortunately, with #DARBEE_Visual_Presence (DVP), it is easy to understand. #DVP simply gives everything more depth, clarity and realism. DVP for #4K #UHD #HDR is coming in 2018, and it is going to prove that fidelity is not the endpoint of #image_quality !

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You are missing my point. What they posted four weeks ago agrees with your information.......BUT, they also state they have no product announcements. Which combined with other statements quoted in the main darbee thread lead me to believe they will be licensing their "tech" to other companies to incorporate into their own products.

Believe me I hope I am wrong. I'll be first in line for the 4k version of a darbee standalone product.
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-23-2018, 10:33 AM
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got it plugged in last night and have to say it's pretty sweet . the picture looks clearer and the contrast seems a little better. i haven't tested the settings much. basically put it on hi def 50% and let it roll. like what i'm seeing so far.
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-23-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nohjy View Post
I have a pretty current home theater. In addition to alot of other gear, I have a JVC RS600 along with a Denon RS4300 and a Sony X800 UHD player. I Also have a Samsung BDJ6300 Blu-ray player running into a Darbee 5000 and a DVDO iscan mini and I have to say I prefer the picture quality I get out of old-school blu ray when compared to 4K UHD from my Sony UHD player. Not having the Darbee and the iscan in the chain (because they are not compatible) results in a seemingly less detailed picture when watching UHD. Before someone asks, I am using a vertex and manni's curves to calibrate UHD. I still prefer the sharpness and addtional shadow detail over the WCG/HDR. Does anyone else feel similarly or am I just crazy? I feel like I am alone in this respect. It seems like no one really cares about the Darbee w/ 1080p anymore, but I think it is an absolute necessity. I really wish they would put something out that offers the same processing for 4K.
You are using a Projector as a display unit. I can see why, you feel that way. I f you were using a different equipment, I think the results would be unequivocal.That is why it is difficult for you to understand.

Cheers
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post #21 of 27 Old 04-03-2018, 06:39 AM
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nohjy,
Have you tried UHD Blu-ray with the clear black feature on the JVC set to low? I've read that clear black is a similar effect as darbee but not as good but maybe the clear black/UHD blu-ray/HDR combo wil trump? I have a JVC DLA-X700R/Oppo BDP-103D combo so I know what you are talking about. I am waiting for a lot of the UHD standards to stabilize before jumping to UHD and hoping Darbee has something to show by the time I am ready to jump in.
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post #22 of 27 Old 05-30-2018, 08:00 AM
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My original Darbee died. Over the winter I moved my Sharp Elite up to my bedroom and bought a B7A. DV and HDR are great, but for everything that isn't 4k (like cable), there's no comparison to the Darbee effect. I bought 2 new units and run them on both TV's once again. The new units are much different and you definitely don't need to crank them up as high. I'm not one of those people that cares about seeing an image true to the original content. I want the best image possible. Is there possibly another "video processor" out there that can handle 4k and is as good or better than the Darbee?
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post #23 of 27 Old 05-30-2018, 11:06 AM
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In my push toward 4K I upgraded to the Epson HC4000 (faux 4K) projector, Denon X2300W receiver, Sony X800 Blu-ray player and the Roku Premiere+ and Apple TV 4K streamers. I pulled my Darbee Darblet from my setup for several months since it could only do 1080p. Then I realized that I could still use my Tivo Roamio OTA (1080p) for not only over-the-air recording/viewing but I could stream my VUDU collection of over 900 titles the majority of which are 1080p. So I put the Darblet back into the chain Tivo > Darblet > Denon > Epson so now I can enjoy the Darbee effect again with a little faux 4K enhancement whenever I want. For me the best of both worlds...

Gah! No joy here. My Darbee started turning off in my Tivo chain. Only unplugging/replugging would turn it back on. I've removed it for good. Perhaps I'll donate to my niece and her husband since they are still running a 1080p projector.

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post #24 of 27 Old 07-09-2018, 11:26 PM
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The recent firmware update to the Sony UBP-X800 "broke" my original release Darblet. The Darblet (connected between my Epson projector and Marantz preamp) passes every other (1080p) signal from my other devices, but the Sony cannot get past it when configured to output 1080p. Weird.

I guess I'll reconnect the Darblet between my 1080p HTPC and the Marantz and continue to use it that way. I just hate to say goodbye to it, even in our 4K world.
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post #25 of 27 Old 09-19-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by boblinds View Post
The recent firmware update to the Sony UBP-X800 "broke" my original release Darblet. The Darblet (connected between my Epson projector and Marantz preamp) passes every other (1080p) signal from my other devices, but the Sony cannot get past it when configured to output 1080p. Weird.

I guess I'll reconnect the Darblet between my 1080p HTPC and the Marantz and continue to use it that way. I just hate to say goodbye to it, even in our 4K world.
If you're using a HTPC...you'll want to give MadVR a try. IMHO, I think it upscales even better than the Darbee...and I've owned the Darbee! I loved it - but now...MadVR is just killer - I prefer it to my straight 4k disc!!!!
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post #26 of 27 Old 09-19-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by prerich View Post
If you're using a HTPC...you'll want to give MadVR a try. IMHO, I think it upscales even better than the Darbee...and I've owned the Darbee! I loved it - but now...MadVR is just killer - I prefer it to my straight 4k disc!!!!
Thanks, prerich, excellent suggestion. In fact, I did recently discover the Red October HQ mode for JRiver Media Center, which incorporates MadVR. I agree. It produces outstanding results!
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post #27 of 27 Old 09-29-2019, 02:44 PM
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Interesting observations, but we really need better comparisons to even determine individual preference. We must remove HDR from the equation. The difference between HDR and SDR obscures all other possible differences (or similarities). The comparison should be between 4K SDR, and 1080p w/ Darbee.

That comparison would be very interesting indeed. It would be even more interesting if we knew the display type and screen size.

Great topic.

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