what is the point of SDR ITU-R Recommendation BT.2020 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 08-28-2018, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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what is the point of SDR ITU-R Recommendation BT.2020

I think this would be the most appropriate place to ask since you need a video processor of some sort to do this but...


On UHD-dics, to my knowledge, HDR and BT.2020 are a package deal. There are no SDR BT.2020 sources. So if you can't do HDR on your equipment what is the point of tone mapping HDR to SDR while retaining the BT.2020 color space?


You probably have a 1080p set (that is incapable of representing WCG accurately) and in such case and I would assume that one would want to tone map BT.2020 to BT.709 and HDR to SDR as that would be in line with the displays' capabilities.

Yes I did use the search but came up with no reasoning for it.

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display + TX-P55VT60E -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer -- Apple TV 4K -- WD LIVE TV gen 3.
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post #2 of 9 Old 08-28-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
I think this would be the most appropriate place to ask since you need a video processor of some sort to do this but...


On UHD-dics, to my knowledge, HDR and BT.2020 are a package deal. There are no SDR BT.2020 sources. So if you can't do HDR on your equipment what is the point of tone mapping HDR to SDR while retaining the BT.2020 color space?


You probably have a 1080p set (that is incapable of representing WCG accurately) and in such case and I would assume that one would want to tone map BT.2020 to BT.709 and HDR to SDR as that would be in line with the displays' capabilities.

Yes I did use the search but came up with no reasoning for it.
Yes, HDR and BT2020 is usually a package deal, except for some UHD BR players and a very few other sources that are capable of sending SDR BT2020 without HDR such as OPPO203 or UB series, etc..
For a few display owners, PJ owners in particular, they have a better picture quality using BT2020 SDR instead of BT2020 HDR, this was particularly true until power users managed to find a way to load custom Gamme Curve for HDR content on their JVC PJ.


So all into the others, it is limited to some PJ owners mainly.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #3 of 9 Old 09-02-2018, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
I think this would be the most appropriate place to ask since you need a video processor of some sort to do this but...


On UHD-dics, to my knowledge, HDR and BT.2020 are a package deal. There are no SDR BT.2020 sources. So if you can't do HDR on your equipment what is the point of tone mapping HDR to SDR while retaining the BT.2020 color space?


You probably have a 1080p set (that is incapable of representing WCG accurately) and in such case and I would assume that one would want to tone map BT.2020 to BT.709 and HDR to SDR as that would be in line with the displays' capabilities.

Yes I did use the search but came up with no reasoning for it.
There are several older JVC and Sony projectors that support BT.2020 but not HDR. Having a UHD Disc player perform tone mapping from HDR to SDR BT.2020 allows those projector owners to get the benefit of the wide color gamut of UHD discs and a picture that can rival HDR.

And the new Panasonic UB820 UHD disc player has HDR to SDR BT.2020 tone mapping capabilities that could be better than what some older and even current HDR displays can do with HDR. All HDR displays do some sort of tone mapping of HDR. SDR BT.2020 allows the Panasonic player to move the tone mapping from the display to the player.
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Last edited by claw; 09-02-2018 at 02:07 PM.
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post #4 of 9 Old 09-03-2018, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
There are several older JVC and Sony projectors that support BT.2020 but not HDR. Having a UHD Disc player perform tone mapping from HDR to SDR BT.2020 allows those projector owners to get the benefit of the wide color gamut of UHD discs and a picture that can rival HDR.

And the new Panasonic UB820 UHD disc player has HDR to SDR BT.2020 tone mapping capabilities that could be better than what some older and even current HDR displays can do with HDR. All HDR displays do some sort of tone mapping of HDR. SDR BT.2020 allows the Panasonic player to move the tone mapping from the display to the player.


Yes and I forgot about the the popular earlier OLED from LG with input 3 @ 4K60 4:2:0 10b BT2020 SDR only. Same for them, they need BT2020 SDR to render at their best capabilities.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
...
For a few display owners, PJ owners in particular, they have a better picture quality using BT2020 SDR instead of BT2020 HDR, this was particularly true until power users managed to find a way to load custom Gamme Curve for HDR content on their JVC PJ....
Greetings HDfury,
So for these power users, HDfury would strip off the HDR flag/metadata/or whatever it is called without further modifying the signal?
Many thanks and best regards,
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post #6 of 9 Old 01-28-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by qoopy View Post
Greetings HDfury,
So for these power users, HDfury would strip off the HDR flag/metadata/or whatever it is called without further modifying the signal?
Many thanks and best regards,

-Yes, HDfury Linker, Vertex or Integral2 can DISABLE incoming HDR metadata, so the signal going thru the PJ is still the original HDR one but display/PJ won't activate HDR mode, so you can load manual curve for it and have iris working, etc..
-Vertex or Integral2 are also capable to replace HDR metadata on the fly, to force a particular MaxCLL or nits values, etc. or to force display in HDR mode when HLG comes in and display have no HLG support, etc...
-All our 18Gbps devices (Integral, Integral2, Linker, Vertex, AVR-Key, Dr.HDMI 4K) comes with full EDID management that allow you to present BT2020 SDR capability to a capable source.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #7 of 9 Old 11-07-2019, 06:35 PM
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Im coming into this whole HDR/UHD with my JVC RS400. I loaded curves and heard the curves are fixed.

Now i read about HDR to SDR BT.2020 .........i havent a clue, but heard the Panasonic UB420 will give me this.....yeah im confused......help explain this in baby steps

I had a friend recommended a HD Fury component for my RS400, but i don’t remember that would do this for all my sources......i think

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Last edited by kgveteran; 11-07-2019 at 07:05 PM.
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post #8 of 9 Old 11-08-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Im coming into this whole HDR/UHD with my JVC RS400. I loaded curves and heard the curves are fixed.

Now i read about HDR to SDR BT.2020 .........i havent a clue, but heard the Panasonic UB420 will give me this.....yeah im confused......help explain this in baby steps

I had a friend recommended a HD Fury component for my RS400, but i don’t remember that would do this for all my sources......i think
Vertex, Integral2, Maestro, Diva and Vertex2 have special macro for JVC PJ so based on incoming content you can force PJ into particular mode/preset of your choice.
I suggest you start by reading Manni Guide in JVC thread and then ask if you have further question.
Claw also made a good reply recently, you can read it here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post58792276

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 11-08-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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post #9 of 9 Old 11-26-2019, 01:15 PM
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if your 4k display device can't handle HDR very well or does not have HDR, the ability to send SDR bt2020 10bit WCG video w/o HDR is incredible! It looks incredible; using Panasonic UB820 and its fantastic
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