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post #391 of 429 Old 11-24-2019, 11:03 AM
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Maestro cat cable question

I am looking at getting a Maestro; TX and RX

I have long runs of HDMI cables in conduits but still get failures after 18 months or so. Top of the line monoprice long runs.

As I have cat 6 cabling to TV from a switch which is behind AV bay i was thinking of buying a Maetro for redundancy protection so I can send signal over HDBASE and use short ethernet cables on either end. So some questions:

1. my cable is cat6 not cat6a as recommended but the runs are about 40 feet - so should be good right? No compromises?
2. I have understood correctly i can use the LAN ports to still connect TV to a switch (I obviously have to hook up the TX unit to a switch? I like this setup for my plex server. I run the plex app on TV.

Thanks for the advice in advance - the HDfury 4 i bought worked out great for scaling to my projector by the way (i asked the question a few weeks ago)

Best Regards.
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post #392 of 429 Old 11-24-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PittsburghRed View Post
I am looking at getting a Maestro; TX and RX

I have long runs of HDMI cables in conduits but still get failures after 18 months or so. Top of the line monoprice long runs.

As I have cat 6 cabling to TV from a switch which is behind AV bay i was thinking of buying a Maetro for redundancy protection so I can send signal over HDBASE and use short ethernet cables on either end. So some questions:

1. my cable is cat6 not cat6a as recommended but the runs are about 40 feet - so should be good right? No compromises?
2. I have understood correctly i can use the LAN ports to still connect TV to a switch (I obviously have to hook up the TX unit to a switch? I like this setup for my plex server. I run the plex app on TV.

Thanks for the advice in advance - the HDfury 4 i bought worked out great for scaling to my projector by the way (i asked the question a few weeks ago)

Best Regards.

1. Yes, should work just fine, even if it always needs to be tested, if it works then no compromise, if it doesn't work and you cannot change the cable, you can send back for refund, no problem.
2. For webcontrol or to share internet access, you need to connect AT LEAST TX or RX (one of them) to your LAN, once that is done, you can connect any device that you want to share LAN and/or internet access to any remaining LAN port (whether it is on TX or RX)

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #393 of 429 Old 12-01-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Ior you have the Maestro send custom HDR metadata so the Epson sees HDR10 and switches to its HDR picture mode. The Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV checkbox will send custom HDR10 metadata only when the Maestro sees LLDV input. You don't want the custom metadata sent if the input is HDR10 or SDR.
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My suggestion is when you want LLDV to DV display and HDR to another display, in such case, you force capable source (ATV4K/Sony players and a few others) with a sony A1 LLDV custom edid 5 (or LG C8 LLDV custom EDID8 apparently from people results) on TX unit and you set "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" > but make sure to set this last one on RX unit and not on TX !
First off -- thanks for taking the time to help me figure this out.
I tried to follow instructions! TX0 is connected to LG C9. TX1 (via RX) is connected to an Epson 5050 Projector.
  1. On the TX, I set a custom EDID on all my inputs - such as the LG C8 Custom Edid #8 (also tried #5).
  2. On the RX, "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV (for ATV only)"
p.s. I didn't enter any data into text box above the "Send HDR" Button.

The outcome is a pink/purple screen on the LG C9 (which is DV capable!) and a proper picture on the projector. Which makes no sense to me whatsoever!

Any ideas welcome -- including whether all this brain damage is worth it and whether I should just set the TX EDID's to a non-DV set like #4 , Q9FN? In other words, is fighting for DV on the LG9 worth the battle?
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post #394 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by skavan View Post
First off -- thanks for taking the time to help me figure this out.
I tried to follow instructions! TX0 is connected to LG C9. TX1 (via RX) is connected to an Epson 5050 Projector.
  1. On the TX, I set a custom EDID on all my inputs - such as the LG C8 Custom Edid #8 (also tried #5).
  2. On the RX, "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV (for ATV only)"
p.s. I didn't enter any data into text box above the "Send HDR" Button.

The outcome is a pink/purple screen on the LG C9 (which is DV capable!) and a proper picture on the projector. Which makes no sense to me whatsoever!

Any ideas welcome -- including whether all this brain damage is worth it and whether I should just set the TX EDID's to a non-DV set like #4 , Q9FN? In other words, is fighting for DV on the LG9 worth the battle?
Did you click the Send HDR button with the defaults? It might be possible that the LG doesn't know what to do with LLDV if you also include custom HDR10 metadata. Why do you want to send custom HDR metadata? Does your Epson require it in order to go into HDR picture mode? I would suggest to test with not sending custom HDR.

I think you want the LG to process the input as LLDV since it supports Dolby Vision, but the Epson to process it as HDR10.

CJ
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Last edited by claw; 12-02-2019 at 09:45 AM.
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post #395 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skavan View Post
First off -- thanks for taking the time to help me figure this out.
I tried to follow instructions! TX0 is connected to LG C9. TX1 (via RX) is connected to an Epson 5050 Projector.
  1. On the TX, I set a custom EDID on all my inputs - such as the LG C8 Custom Edid #8 (also tried #5).
  2. On the RX, "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV (for ATV only)"
p.s. I didn't enter any data into text box above the "Send HDR" Button.

The outcome is a pink/purple screen on the LG C9 (which is DV capable!) and a proper picture on the projector. Which makes no sense to me whatsoever!

Any ideas welcome -- including whether all this brain damage is worth it and whether I should just set the TX EDID's to a non-DV set like #4 , Q9FN? In other words, is fighting for DV on the LG9 worth the battle?
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Did you click the Send HDR button with the defaults? It might be possible that the LG doesn't know what to do with LLDV if you also include custom HDR10 metadata. Why do you want to send custom HDR metadata? Does your Epson require it in order to go into HDR picture mode? I would suggest to test with not sending custom HDR.

I think you want the LG to process the input as LLDV since it supports Dolby Vision, but the Epson to process it as HDR10.


Hi Guys,


It's quite easy, both Normal DV or LLDV, use DV string to encode and display decode it.

The idea here is to use Sony A1 LLDV string (that's a string in A1 EDID), because Sony A1 TV have nearly no processing available so all processing is done at source level, the result is a picture close to HDR. so by forcing a capable source (ATV4K, sony players mainly) to output LLDV for Sony A1, one can then deal with that signal just like if it was a HDR signal, so if you are sending that to a HDR capable display you can send custom HDR at the same time to force display in HDR mode and picture will nearly be as good as HDR10 with the advantage of the sources making frame by frame adjustment as it does for DV/LLDV content compared to normal HDR10.

Of course Sony A1 prolly adjust a few others things, so some additional settings might be required on the display or on the HDR metadata sent or both... This have yet to be determinate.


In all cases, once your source output LLDV for A1, then if you don't have A1 display, the only way to deal with that signal is to force HDR mode, another DV display won't be able to handle the signal properly because it was not encoded using that display DV string, but A1 DV string.


So what Skavan reported is just NORMAL.


If he used his C9 DV string, then the signal would not be that much processed at source level and fully unwatchable as HDR on another display.


So, if you don't have Sony A1 and force a source into LLDV using Sony A1 EDID, then you have to force both display into HDR mode. so here, with SOURCES > TX/C9 > RX/EPSON, both RX and TX need to send Custom HDR to force both into HDR mode so both can render LLDV as HDR.




Just small misunderstanding about how DV works here.

Normal DV is DV SOURCE ENCODE for DISPLAY using DISPLAY DV STRING, only that DISPLAY CAN DECODE IT. + Stream travels in RGB container, so no operation possible on the signal when using a device in the middle without breaking DV fully.

LLDV is DV SOURCE ENCODE for DISPLAY using DISPLAY DV STRING, only that DISPLAY CAN DECODE IT. but stream travels normally and operation can be done using a device in the middle without breaking it. + If user have a TV with weak processing power such as A1, all processing is done at source level from capable source and results is HDR like stream travelling which can be rendered as HDR on all HDR capable display, yet a few others tweaking might be needed to be perfect because if you compare LLDV > A1 and HDR > A1, there very slight difference when you look closely the stream before the display is in LLDV or HDR mode.
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Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 12-02-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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post #396 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
...So, if you don't have Sony A1 and force a source into LLDV using Sony A1 EDID, then you have to force both display into HDR mode. so here, with SOURCES > TX/C9 > RX/EPSON, both RX and TX need to send Custom HDR to force both into HDR mode so both can render LLDV as HDR.
Except that if we have a first generation JVC 4K e-Shift projector, we can't send custom HDR metadata because the JVC would select the broken Gamma D curve, and also disables the Dynamic Iris.

We would typically use the Disable HDR checkbox to prevent the JVC from doing this, but we can't Disable HDR and Send Custom HDR at the same time.

This is one reason I asked for a new JVC macro for LLDV to send a command to select my preferred user mode for LLDV in my RS500. We don't need to tell the JVC that it is receiving HDR, we just need to select a proper HDR10 gamma curve. Without a new JVC macro, the SDR BT2020 macro is executed each time LLDV is input which would obviously not be correct.

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post #397 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
So, if you don't have Sony A1 and force a source into LLDV using Sony A1 EDID, then you have to force both display into HDR mode. so here, with SOURCES > TX/C9 > RX/EPSON, both RX and TX need to send Custom HDR to force both into HDR mode so both can render LLDV as HDR.

Just small misunderstanding about how DV works here.

Normal DV is DV SOURCE ENCODE for DISPLAY using DISPLAY DV STRING, only that DISPLAY CAN DECODE IT. + Stream travels in RGB container, so no operation possible on the signal when using a device in the middle without breaking DV fully.

LLDV is DV SOURCE ENCODE for DISPLAY using DISPLAY DV STRING, only that DISPLAY CAN DECODE IT. but stream travels normally and operation can be done using a device in the middle without breaking it. + If user have a TV with weak processing power such as A1, all processing is done at source level from capable source and results is HDR like stream travelling which can be rendered as HDR on all HDR capable display, yet a few others tweaking might be needed to be perfect because if you compare LLDV > A1 and HDR > A1, there very slight difference when you look closely the stream before the display is in LLDV or HDR mode.
So, if I understand the above correctly (and I probably don't!) -- then in my case, since I don't have an A1 (I have a C9), then I have to send a Custom HDR to force both into HDR.
So -- why bother and why not just use either the Custom Q9 edid (4) or use automix with the DV Remove flag set? Doesn't that get me to the same place? (i.e. HDR10 to both the C9 and Epson 5050)

I guess what I had hoped was I could send LLDV to the C9 and ignore the LLDV on my RX connected 5050. But I haven't figured out a combination of TX and RX settings that will do that.

s.
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post #398 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Except that if we have a first generation JVC 4K e-Shift projector, we can't send custom HDR metadata because the JVC would select the broken Gamma D curve, and also disables the Dynamic Iris.

We would typically use the Disable HDR checkbox to prevent the JVC from doing this, but we can't Disable HDR and Send Custom HDR at the same time.

This is one reason I asked for a new JVC macro for LLDV to send a command to select my preferred user mode for LLDV in my RS500. We don't need to tell the JVC that it is receiving HDR, we just need to select a proper HDR10 gamma curve. Without a new JVC macro, the SDR BT2020 macro is executed each time LLDV is input which would obviously not be correct.

Yes sure, I was not talking JVC, I was talking in general, explaining why if he get A1 LLDV to his PJ it's normal that his C9 cannot handle the stream.
This being said, you can still send custom HDR to first generation JVC and have it using broken Gamma D while Iris disabled, that's after all what JVC provided to their customers for their HDR experience, but yeah I know it sux but I do think the wide wide majority of JVC owners/users have not any Custom Gamma Curve or solution for their Dynamic Iris, only the hobbysts and purists have such solution.




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Originally Posted by skavan View Post
So, if I understand the above correctly (and I probably don't!) -- then in my case, since I don't have an A1 (I have a C9), then I have to send a Custom HDR to force both into HDR.
So -- why bother and why not just use either the Custom Q9 edid (4) or use automix with the DV Remove flag set? Doesn't that get me to the same place? (i.e. HDR10 to both the C9 and Epson 5050)

I guess what I had hoped was I could send LLDV to the C9 and ignore the LLDV on my RX connected 5050. But I haven't figured out a combination of TX and RX settings that will do that.

s.

Yes, if you don't use C9 DV string and use A1 LLDV string, then you need to force any display that get such signal into its HDR mode, (a DV display getting a DV stream that was not encoded using its DV string cannot decode anything there) and you might do a bit more than that, this is afterall just a trick exploiting A1 processing weakness for non DV capable TV owners. (and a way for us to deal with LLDV for Ambient light or LLDV > SDR)


Not sure what Q9 EDID would bring here or Automix with DV remove flag, May be I don't get your purpose or goal right here. I was just giving explanation above.
HDR10 is STATIC, LLDV is dynamic. so no I don't think getting HDR10 on both is equal.


No you cannot send LLDV to C9 and ignore LLDV on RX, if you understand how DV and LLDV works, you know this is impossible, at least from the same input signal going to both C9 and HDR PJ at the same time (splitter mode).
Your C9 have processing power, a LLDV stream sent to it will be unwatchable by any other display that get similar stream.


Below is imho a list of output mode from lowest to highest quality and sure it can be argued, so it's just an idea, some content will look better using particular output mode rather than an other.

SDR/709 < SDR/2020 < HDR10 < LLDV < HDR10+/DV

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Last edited by HDfury; 12-02-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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post #399 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 09:40 PM
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May be I don't get your purpose or goal right here. I was just giving explanation above.
HDR10 is STATIC, LLDV is dynamic. so no I don't think getting HDR10 on both is equal.

No you cannot send LLDV to C9 and ignore LLDV on RX, if you understand how DV and LLDV works, you know this is impossible, at least from the same input signal going to both C9 and HDR PJ at the same time (splitter mode). Your C9 have processing power, a LLDV stream sent to it will be unwatchable by any other display that get similar stream.
Let me try this another way around.

All I am trying to achieve is to get the best possible picture on my two display devices.
Sometimes just the C9 is being watched. Sometimes just the 5050 projector. Sometimes both.
My source is material from (Fire TV latest edition) is HDR and DV capable.
All I want to do is set the TX and RX to give me the best, output and not need to fiddle with it.
So, given that goal, what would you recommend?

s.
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LG OLEDs have supported LLDV ever since the 7 series. If you use the LG C8 LLDV EDID, I don't see why you would need to send HDR custom metadata to an LG OLED.

I can set my Oppo 203 to Player Led Dolby Vision and my LG B7A displays it properly.

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LG OLEDs have supported LLDV ever since the 7 series. If you use the C8 LLDV EDID, I don't see why you would need to send HDR custom metadata to an LG OLED.
Well - forgive me for being dumb, but HD Fury just said I can't send LLDV to the C9 (connected to the TX) and the same stream to the 5050 Connected to the RX:

Quote:
No you cannot send LLDV to C9 and ignore LLDV on RX, if you understand how DV and LLDV works, you know this is impossible,
Which leads me to the unhappy conclusion that if I am to use both devices, I will have to use an EDID that doesn't support DV, or Automix with "DV Remove".
I hope I'm wrong.

s.
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post #402 of 429 Old 12-02-2019, 11:35 PM
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Yes, you can connect TX or RX to local lan and then Ethernet access is shared via same HDBT cable.

VIDEO/INTERNET/IR/AUDIO/RS232 all travels between RX/TX via same cable.
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Yes, Should work just fine, usually people are using our RX with Crestron HDBT switcher, but you should be able to use our TX with HDBT RX you have as well.
My projector has a built in HDBaseT Rx port (Beng LK952). And I know you say that it should work with 3rd party Rx so I just purchased your Maestro TX unit only. But after reading through this thread I saw you mention that alot of cool stuff is coming over the HDBaseT connection from the TX unit. What cool functions am I missing out on or capabilities. I would imagine IR is gone as would be internet? Any image function or capabilities crippled because I'm using the built in Rx unit?

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Let's assume we can do aspect ratio detection or position of black bars, what's the next step ?
Your device mentions scaling capabilities and the ability that it might be able to detect black bars. One fairly simple scaling algorithm is to vertically stretch an image with black bars to full 16x9 aspect ratio. Many of the software playback players do this for free. Although I would imagine their processing is fairly mundane and some of the higher end "for charge" video processors probably do crazy higher math on the image. But I was wondering if the Maestro could do a image vertical stretch if it sensed black bars.

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post #403 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by skavan View Post
Let me try this another way around.

All I am trying to achieve is to get the best possible picture on my two display devices.
Sometimes just the C9 is being watched. Sometimes just the 5050 projector. Sometimes both.
My source is material from (Fire TV latest edition) is HDR and DV capable.
All I want to do is set the TX and RX to give me the best, output and not need to fiddle with it.
So, given that goal, what would you recommend?

s.

Then you have 3 cases:


LG C9 alone : Best is more likely DV but that's my opinion only.
PJ alone : Best is more likely HDR10 or A1 LLDV + HDR metadata (or not if you have custom gamma curve) if you can manage to render it correctly from a capable source
C9 + PJ together: Best that can work on both is probably HDR10 (LLDV might work if source can do processing, but I think only OPPO source can force LLDV processing at source for a LG DV string)


All into the other, you have to make your own choice here, I'm here to help on issue not to tell you how to use your equipment, after all, some people prefer SDR/BT2020 rather than anything else. your eyes and your preference should decide here.


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Originally Posted by claw View Post
LG OLEDs have supported LLDV ever since the 7 series. If you use the LG C8 LLDV EDID, I don't see why you would need to send HDR custom metadata to an LG OLED.

I can set my Oppo 203 to Player Led Dolby Vision and my LG B7A displays it properly.

Yes true Claw, but I think that is possible only on OPPO, I think any other LLDV sources outputting for LG DV string will push more processing on the display, on OPPO, if I got this right, you can decide if you push more processing on source or on display with a slider or an option if I recall well. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I know it was like that some months ago, may be it have evolved. So yes LG TV will work this way, but using any other source than OPPO I think he will get unwatchable stream on his PJ in this case (I can be wrong thus, haven't tested how each LLDV capable source will output)

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Well - forgive me for being dumb, but HD Fury just said I can't send LLDV to the C9 (connected to the TX) and the same stream to the 5050 Connected to the RX:

Which leads me to the unhappy conclusion that if I am to use both devices, I will have to use an EDID that doesn't support DV, or Automix with "DV Remove".
I hope I'm wrong.

s.

If you use AUTOMIX, then you can have DV to LG C9 when only LG C9 is up and then you can use HDR10 for both when both are up and only HDR when only PJ is up and that would be the best possible option for you I guess.
You can send LLDV to C9 and deal with same signal as HDR on PJ by forcing metadata (or using custom gamma curve on JVC PJ), but that will only work if you can force all processing at source level and I think only OPPO is capable of this for LG DV.

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Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 12-03-2019 at 06:21 AM.
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post #404 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 06:17 AM
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My projector has a built in HDBaseT Rx port (Beng LK952). And I know you say that it should work with 3rd party Rx so I just purchased your Maestro TX unit only. But after reading through this thread I saw you mention that alot of cool stuff is coming over the HDBaseT connection from the TX unit. What cool functions am I missing out on or capabilities. I would imagine IR is gone as would be internet? Any image function or capabilities crippled because I'm using the built in Rx unit?



Your device mentions scaling capabilities and the ability that it might be able to detect black bars. One fairly simple scaling algorithm is to vertically stretch an image with black bars to full 16x9 aspect ratio. Many of the software playback players do this for free. Although I would imagine their processing is fairly mundane and some of the higher end "for charge" video processors probably do crazy higher math on the image. But I was wondering if the Maestro could do a image vertical stretch if it sensed black bars.
Yes, TX should work with most HDBT RX but then output will be limited to what that particular HDBT RX support (most are 10.2Gbps/300MHz), similarly ,people are using our RX with Crestron TX, because apparently our RX are cheaper and better.
So by using any other RX, I think you will miss everything except the video stream, this include:


Audio ARC: but that's not a big deal for you since a PJ is not a TV and you prolly have no APPS on it that would justify driving sound back to TX output.
IR: again not a big deal if you don't need to control device at TX location from RX location (or PJ location since HDBT is included on your PJ)
RS232: again not a big deal in your case I guess, unless you want to automate sending RS232 commands to your PJ based on incoming signal.
Internet: If PJ have no browser/apps, or if you have other Ethernet port available at PJ location, then that is prolly not needed neither.
Video: you will limit video to 10.2gbps/300MHz, but if your PJ does not accept more than that via its HDMI input, then you are not missing anything (I haven't checked your PJ specs)


About your last sentence, I think this is taken out of context, so may be add a link so i can see where this comes from as I cannot recall everything sorry.
In all cases, doing operation at source level or sink level is easy, doing operation in the middle is another story, that's why LRP cost 7000$, so no I don't think we can do anything like that without similar processing/cost involved.

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post #405 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 07:55 AM
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Yes true Claw, but I think that is possible only on OPPO, I think any other LLDV sources outputting for LG DV string will push more processing on the display, on OPPO, if I got this right, you can decide if you push more processing on source or on display with a slider or an option if I recall well. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I know it was like that some months ago, may be it have evolved. So yes LG TV will work this way, but using any other source than OPPO I think he will get unwatchable stream on his PJ in this case (I can be wrong thus, haven't tested how each LLDV capable source will output)
I will revisit the Oppo Player-led LLDV. It has been quite a while since I tried it. I will move my ATV4K to the room where my B7A is located to test further.

As for the A1 vs C8 LLDV EDIDs, I can use either EDID to get LLDV from Dolby Vision content to my JVC using my ATV4K. I can do the same with my Panasonic UB820 using the A1 EDID. I haven't tried the C8 EDID with the UB820. In the JVC I use a custom Arve HDR curve.

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post #406 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 08:11 AM
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I will revisit the Oppo Player-led LLDV. It has been quite a while since I tried it. I will move my ATV4K to the room where my B7A is located to test further.

As for the A1 vs C8 LLDV EDIDs, I can use either EDID to get LLDV from Dolby Vision content to my JVC using my ATV4K. I can do the same with my Panasonic UB820 using the A1 EDID. I haven't tried the C8 EDID with the UB820. In the JVC I use a custom Arve HDR curve.
Hi Claw,

As far as I remember, our C8 LLDV EDID is a C8 EDID modded with A1 LLDV string in it, Someone asked this at some point, so for sure ATV4K and other sources will send similar stream to what they would do for a real A1 EDID.
Now if you take a real LG DV string, results would/should differ HIGHLY !

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post #407 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 08:25 AM
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Hi Claw,

As far as I remember, our C8 LLDV EDID is a C8 EDID modded with A1 LLDV string in it, Someone asked this at some point, so for sure ATV4K and other sources will send similar stream to what they would do for a real A1 EDID.
Now if you take a real LG DV string, results would/should differ HIGHLY !
Yes, of course. With a real LG DV string the result would be unwatchable on my JVC. I wondered where that LG LLDV originated from.

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post #408 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 08:44 AM
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LG OLEDs have supported LLDV ever since the 7 series. If you use the LG C8 LLDV EDID, I don't see why you would need to send HDR custom metadata to an LG OLED.

I can set my Oppo 203 to Player Led Dolby Vision and my LG B7A displays it properly.
May be C9 is different (since apparently skavan said the TV is not going in DV/LLDV mode, "pink/purple" pic he wrote), we have one in lab, will ask devs to check it when they have time.

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post #409 of 429 Old 12-03-2019, 09:09 PM
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May be C9 is different (since apparently skavan said the TV is not going in DV/LLDV mode, "pink/purple" pic he wrote), we have one in lab, will ask devs to check it when they have time.
OK, with either the Sony A1 LLDV EDID or the LG C8 LLDV EDID configured in a Vertex, I can successfully send 422 BT2020 12b DV (LLDV) to my LG B7A OLED. Playing Dolby Vision content from either an ATV4K or an Oppo 203 set to Player-led Dolby Vision. The B7A reports receiving Dolby Vision and when I check the Picture Mode selected, it is the Dolby Vision picture mode. Picture looks great. There is no reason to send custom HDR metadata since the LG recognizes the input as Dolby Vision.

What I did not expect is that if I set the EDID to Automix or to the LG Full DV EDID, I get a messed up picture on the LG playing Dolby Vision content from my Oppo with it set to Player-led Dolby Vision. This used to work but it was quite some time ago. I expect that some firmware update in the LG or the Oppo broke it.

So I can use either LLDV EDID to send LLDV to either my JVC RS500 or to my LG B7A. Unfortunately they are no longer in the same room so I can't test simultaneous output. But I expect it would work fine.

Update: Since so many are sending custom HDR metadata I tried that. My LG seemed confused. It kept switching between displaying an HDR label and a Dolby Vision label during the disc menus. When movie playback began it stayed in Dolby Vision mode with the Dolby Vision picture mode even though it was getting HDR metadata.

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post #410 of 429 Old 12-04-2019, 10:24 AM
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OK, with either the Sony A1 LLDV EDID or the LG C8 LLDV EDID configured in a Vertex, I can successfully send 422 BT2020 12b DV (LLDV) to my LG B7A OLED. Playing Dolby Vision content from either an ATV4K or an Oppo 203 set to Player-led Dolby Vision. The B7A reports receiving Dolby Vision and when I check the Picture Mode selected, it is the Dolby Vision picture mode. Picture looks great. There is no reason to send custom HDR metadata since the LG recognizes the input as Dolby Vision.

What I did not expect is that if I set the EDID to Automix or to the LG Full DV EDID, I get a messed up picture on the LG playing Dolby Vision content from my Oppo with it set to Player-led Dolby Vision. This used to work but it was quite some time ago. I expect that some firmware update in the LG or the Oppo broke it.

So I can use either LLDV EDID to send LLDV to either my JVC RS500 or to my LG B7A. Unfortunately they are no longer in the same room so I can't test simultaneous output. But I expect it would work fine.

Update: Since so many are sending custom HDR metadata I tried that. My LG seemed confused. It kept switching between displaying an HDR label and a Dolby Vision label during the disc menus. When movie playback began it stayed in Dolby Vision mode with the Dolby Vision picture mode even though it was getting HDR metadata.
Good tests !
Yes sending HDR custom metadata is only good if display have NO DV or if DV stream is not recognized as a DV stream by the display (may be that's the case for C9, we will check it in labs when we have time)

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post #411 of 429 Old 12-04-2019, 01:12 PM
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Good tests !
Yes sending HDR custom metadata is only good if display have NO DV or if DV stream is not recognized as a DV stream by the display (may be that's the case for C9, we will check it in labs when we have time)
Thanks Claw & HDFury for continuing the hunt.

So in my case, if I set Sony A1 LLDV EDID or the LG C8 LLDV EDID, and do a "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV (for ATV only)" on the RX (5050UB), then the projector correctly displays a DV source (The Crown, Netflix) as HDR (4K59.93 593MHz 422 BT2020 12b HDR 2.2)
BUT
Bizarrely, the LG gives me a screen with light purple hues (not the full blooded pink screen, but messed up nonetheless).

So the good news is that the Custom HDR seems to work, and the projector extracts the HDR stream (or ignores the LLDV container).
But the bad news is that it "feels" like the C9 doesn't like the LLDV stream (but what do I know).

If I do an Automix on the TX, and set algorithm to TX0 Output Priority and DV Force LLDV then it almost all works, except as soon as I try a DV title, it drops to 1080P (but works) and stubbornly stays in 1080P.

Is there someway of me (or you!) creating a C9 LLDV EDID? Would that maybe clear this up?

The quest continues.
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post #412 of 429 Old 12-04-2019, 02:10 PM
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Thanks Claw & HDFury for continuing the hunt.

So in my case, if I set Sony A1 LLDV EDID or the LG C8 LLDV EDID, and do a "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV (for ATV only)" on the RX (5050UB), then the projector correctly displays a DV source (The Crown, Netflix) as HDR (4K59.93 593MHz 422 BT2020 12b HDR 2.2)
BUT
Bizarrely, the LG gives me a screen with light purple hues (not the full blooded pink screen, but messed up nonetheless).

So the good news is that the Custom HDR seems to work, and the projector extracts the HDR stream (or ignores the LLDV container).
But the bad news is that it "feels" like the C9 doesn't like the LLDV stream (but what do I know).

If I do an Automix on the TX, and set algorithm to TX0 Output Priority and DV Force LLDV then it almost all works, except as soon as I try a DV title, it drops to 1080P (but works) and stubbornly stays in 1080P.

Is there someway of me (or you!) creating a C9 LLDV EDID? Would that maybe clear this up?

The quest continues.

The LLDV edid we did, all use A1 string in it, so it won't change anything for you.
We need our devs to check C9 for that purpose, they will do it when they have free time, at the moment we have several updates to release first.
So the quest will continue soon


I'm not sure why DV drop to 1080p, try to copy TX0 simply that is same as direct connection to TV or use Autmix without any video flags checked.

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post #413 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 12:37 AM
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My projector has a built in HDBaseT Rx port (Beng LK952). And I know you say that it should work with 3rd party Rx so I just purchased your Maestro TX unit only. But after reading through this thread I saw you mention that alot of cool stuff is coming over the HDBaseT connection from the TX unit. What cool functions am I missing out on or capabilities. I would imagine IR is gone as would be internet? Any image function or capabilities crippled because I'm using the built in Rx unit?
Yes, TX should work with most HDBT RX but then output will be limited to what that particular HDBT RX support (most are 10.2Gbps/300MHz), similarly ,people are using our RX with Crestron TX, because apparently our RX are cheaper and better.
So by using any other RX, I think you will miss .
Ok looks like the projector has built in 600mhz and your unit works with it amazingly.

But I can't seem to do the LLDV trick yet. If I select and EDID with DV like A1 or C8 I lose HDR projector and the image is washed out although the XBOX ONE does allow it to be selected so the EDID is definitely getting thru. I probably have a setting wrong on the Maestro. I will work on it tomorrow. Im still calibrating REC 709 right now on the projector. Tomorrow is HDR.

Just wanted to let you see the 600mhz appears to be working with the BENQ lk952 projectors HDBaseT port.



OH and if anyone sees anything I have set wrong on the OSD let me know. This isn't for LLDV yet. Just setting up the Maestro to send an HDR movie from my xbox to the projector. Right now I think i have it wired wrong. I have xbox-soundbar-maestro-projector. But it seems to work.
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post #414 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 02:09 AM
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Ok looks like the projector has built in 600mhz and your unit works with it amazingly.

But I can't seem to do the LLDV trick yet. If I select and EDID with DV like A1 or C8 I lose HDR projector and the image is washed out although the XBOX ONE does allow it to be selected so the EDID is definitely getting thru. I probably have a setting wrong on the Maestro. I will work on it tomorrow. Im still calibrating REC 709 right now on the projector. Tomorrow is HDR.

Just wanted to let you see the 600mhz appears to be working with the BENQ lk952 projectors HDBaseT port.

OH and if anyone sees anything I have set wrong on the OSD let me know. This isn't for LLDV yet. Just setting up the Maestro to send an HDR movie from my xbox to the projector. Right now I think i have it wired wrong. I have xbox-soundbar-maestro-projector. But it seems to work.

If you use Maestro TX unit only without Maestro RX unit, then what you see here on OSD is the signal at Maestro TX unit input, and it is NOT the signal your PJ is getting, to know what your PJ is getting since you do not have Maestro RX, then you need to check signal information from PJ.
I suppose your PJ HDBT is 300MHz/10.Gbps and you are getting 4K60 420 8b for 4K60 content and 4K24 422 12b for 4K24 content.

For LLDV trick to work, you need to send Custom HDR metadata , for this webserver > HDR/DV section check the checkbox called "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV (for ATV only)"

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post #415 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 07:58 AM
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300mhz darn. Is there a way to definitively test between 300mhz and 600mhz? Is there a setting using 600mhz that will end up with no picture at the projector?

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post #416 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 08:39 AM
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300mhz darn. Is there a way to definitively test between 300mhz and 600mhz? Is there a setting using 600mhz that will end up with no picture at the projector?
No you cannot test 600MHz without Maestro RX.

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post #417 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 11:04 AM
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No you cannot test 600MHz without Maestro RX.
So even if someone bought a 600mhz HDbaseT receiver your Transmitter wouldn't be able to send 600mhz signal?

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post #418 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 11:15 AM
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So even if someone bought a 600mhz HDbaseT receiver your Transmitter wouldn't be able to send 600mhz signal?
Probably not, needs to be tested, there isn't much of such hardware out there.

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post #419 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 12:17 PM
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So even if someone bought a 600mhz HDbaseT receiver your Transmitter wouldn't be able to send 600mhz signal?
Probably not, needs to be tested, there isn't much of such hardware out there.
Ahhhh okay that makes sense i guess. Still so many questions but I will try and find answers on internet. Not sure what 600mhz gets me opposed to 300mhz. I think you said 600mhz is 18gbs and 300mhz is 10.2gbs. But even with that I'm not sure I have any application in my home that would see a difference. I only have a 4k bluray player the xbox one, a tivo cable box, and the xbox one also for games.

That's it. Guess I should do an A/B of Xbox 4k HDR connected directly to projector and then thru the Maestro. Should there be any noticeable difference you think?

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post #420 of 429 Old 12-05-2019, 05:23 PM
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Ahhhh okay that makes sense i guess. Still so many questions but I will try and find answers on internet. Not sure what 600mhz gets me opposed to 300mhz. I think you said 600mhz is 18gbs and 300mhz is 10.2gbs. But even with that I'm not sure I have any application in my home that would see a difference. I only have a 4k bluray player the xbox one, a tivo cable box, and the xbox one also for games.

That's it. Guess I should do an A/B of Xbox 4k HDR connected directly to projector and then thru the Maestro. Should there be any noticeable difference you think?


300MHz/10.2Gbps = MAX 4K30 422 12b (or 4K30 444 8b) and MAX 4K60 420 8b


600MHz/18Gbps = MAX 4K30 444 12b (4K30 444 16b in reality but no source/content is making use of it) and MAX 4K60 422 12b (or 4K60 4444 8b)


So, for 4K 24Hz content, 300MHz/10.2Gbps is enough and I doubt you will be able to spot any difference between PJ HDBT or HDMI in.


for 4K60, typical UHD BR are 4K60 420 10b, you will lose some color depth here (10b >8b, cause 4K60 420 10b coming in and only 4K60 420 8b supported by HDBT in), that's why for movie, it's better to use 4K24.
Some HDR games are 4K60 422 12b, so here you will lose some chroma 422>420 and some color depth 12b > 8b (assuming the source fill the lane with data and not just zero !) so in this case it should be easy to spot some difference that's why some consider playing at 1080p 444 12b HDR instead of 4K60 420 8b HDR on 300MHz/10.2Gbps display.


Yet results can differ based on your HDBT circuitry as we don't have details about it.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 12-06-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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