madVR ENVY : Anticipation thread! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 06:22 PM
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No HTPC required!
Sounds like a closed box system to me

I wish I could buy an HDMI input card with 2-4 HDMI input ports on it and use that for MadVR input instead. I would prefer to turn my HTPC into a receiver too so I don't have to buy one of them new-fangled 4k receivers.

Oh well... you can't always get what you want.

Last edited by wombats; 02-28-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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post #32 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by danbez View Post
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post
... Curious though that it simply says "4K HDR tone mapping". Sounds like this might not bring the full MadVR feature set like NGU upscaling.
I would be totally fine with this limitation! This could alleviate the price point with a less aggressive GPU need. On my side, I really only need MadVR for its excellent tone mapping functionality. I don't care about upscaling as my sources are only Blu-Ray or UHD and I also play them as-is. But I also understand that other users would take advantage of the excellent upscaling provided by MadVR.

Perhaps we should get two different versions ?? :-)
But MadVr upscaling can bring a 1080p movie to almost 4k quality given the right settings, although its pretty demanding, my gtx 1080ti cannot even handle the highest settings without stuttering.
I know its wishful thinking but one can dream of a box that brings ALL madvr features to any source.

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post #33 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Sounds like a closed box system to me

I wish I could buy an HDMI input card with 2-4 HDMI input ports on it and use that for MadVR input instead. I would prefer to turn my HTPC into a receiver too so I don't have to buy one of them new-fangled 4k receivers.

Oh well... you can't always get what you want.
I think HDCP makes that difficult/impossible, particularly for a commercial product.
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post #34 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 07:36 PM
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I have no doubt it will be a great product with Madshi’s guidance. My concern is many people interested in the MadVR program have already spent quite a bit on parts to get a working computer for MadVR. I hope there will be a way for these people to benefit from their investment in MadVR without having to purchase a new stand alone device.
I also realize Madshi would like to receive compensation for all his time and hard work along with quite a few others that have been huge contributors.
Looking forward to see how this plays out

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post #35 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 07:44 PM
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Very exciting. Subscribed. The HDFURY business model has been successful, so hopefully the Envy can be brought closer to that price point ( within reason) rather than the Lumagen range.
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post #36 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 08:56 PM
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If this is a madVR in a box, I'm in for sure. If it's just an HDR tone mapper in a box, probably not. Be interesting to see what it is. For me, madVR's best features are not its tone mapping but its 4K upscaling and video processing.

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post #37 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 11:36 PM
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Very exciting. Subscribed. I've loved the idea of MadVR and what it can do but I'm not a computer guy, I'm a video guy. If they can develop a MadVR external unit that can be installed between my sources and my projector I'm all in. I love the idea of it being much simpler to use than the HTPC version.

I can't wait to see MadVR in action though when I get to see markmon1's system in person.
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post #38 of 1646 Old 02-28-2019, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I have no doubt it will be a great product with Madshi’s guidance. My concern is many people interested in the MadVR program have already spent quite a bit on parts to get a working computer for MadVR. I hope there will be a way for these people to benefit from their investment in MadVR without having to purchase a new stand alone device.
I also realize Madshi would like to receive compensation for all his time and hard work along with quite a few others that have been huge contributors.
Looking forward to see how this plays out
MadVR on your PC isn't going away. But even on a PC imagine if you could use madVR and its HDR Tone mapping in games as well as its sharpening processing.

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post #39 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 12:13 AM
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MadVR for console games and all streamable content...count me in!!! Subscribed!


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post #40 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 12:16 AM
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I volunteer as alpha and beta tester!


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post #41 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
I think HDCP makes that difficult/impossible, particularly for a commercial product.
Much the same reason there are no HDCP capable capture cards; although you can could capture and decrypt the video, you've then got to get it out of the card and into directShow etc to use the current MadVR solution. I don't think that is possible. The Windows Protected Media Path (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_Media_Path) that exists to facilitate commercial UHD/bluray player software I believe was only implemented for video output - so you can create the pixels in the processor, encrypt them, and send them over PCI-express to the graphics card, where they are then sent to the HDMI display with the correct HDCP level. Current capture cards do it in raw video over PCIe.

I think to do this on an open-architecture PC you'd have to have a custom capture card that implemented bus encryption to send the re-encrypted video over PCI-express, and then work out how to ensure folk couldn't use this to get at the unencrypted video. All the nice stuff you can do with screen captures etc - well that's got to die, unprotected pixels right there. Other big questions over maintaining video sync between input and output, and other stuff. I'd much prefer this to be a full custom HW route personally

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Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I have no doubt it will be a great product with Madshi’s guidance. My concern is many people interested in the MadVR program have already spent quite a bit on parts to get a working computer for MadVR. I hope there will be a way for these people to benefit from their investment in MadVR without having to purchase a new stand alone device.
I also realize Madshi would like to receive compensation for all his time and hard work along with quite a few others that have been huge contributors.
Looking forward to see how this plays out
First, I don't think there is any real concern there about MadVR going anywhere (if you think about it, it makes an excellent unpaid testbed of folk for new algorithms), but second, folk are buying commodity PC gear, where manufacturer / retailer margins are low and resale value isn't that different to the purchase price - if you buy well you could be in and out of the HTPC game and come out with a small profit. It's not like there has been any investment in special purpose gear that can only be used with MadVR.
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post #42 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 01:27 AM
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For me it would be perfect with a stand alone box between AVR and display (projector) accepting all HDR flavors and tone mapped to SDR/BT2020.
And with the upscaling to 4K which MadVR do so well😊
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post #43 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 02:11 AM
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Yeah like a darbee or vortex.... that would be good ... and hopefully under 200$
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post #44 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
If this is a madVR in a box, I'm in for sure. If it's just an HDR tone mapper in a box, probably not. Be interesting to see what it is. For me, madVR's best features are not its tone mapping but its 4K upscaling and video processing.
Totally agree.
If it is a dedicated tone mapping machine, it will only target a very selected audience (mostly owners of 4K projectors that wish to calibrate on SDR?).
It would be HUGE if we could have a box with the 3-4 most popular (not all of them) MADVR filters. Something similar to Darbee box.
A $400-500 price tag could easily be justified...
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post #45 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 02:58 AM
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What?! No HTPC?! Sign me up! ;D
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post #46 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
Totally agree.
If it is a dedicated tone mapping machine, it will only target a very selected audience (mostly owners of 4K projectors that wish to calibrate on SDR?).
It would be HUGE if we could have a box with the 3-4 most popular (not all of them) MADVR filters. Something similar to Darbee box.
A $400-500 price tag could easily be justified...
Of course you're in at $400-500. But I doubt we are going to see something in the $400-500 price tag range. This is something more like a lumagen quality wise. I'd expect price to be ~10x that. But who knows. Everything's speculation. We don't even know what the device is. Something like a lumagen but running a full madVR on an HDMI input stream with HDCP and all that for $4000-5000 will compete with lumagen and probably do very well. I'm probably still in at those prices unfortunately.

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post #47 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Of course you're in at $400-500. But I doubt we are going to see something in the $400-500 price tag range. This is something more like a lumagen quality wise. I'd expect price to be ~10x that. But who knows. Everything's speculation. We don't even know what the device is. Something like a lumagen but running a full madVR on an HDMI input stream with HDCP and all that for $4000-5000 will compete with lumagen and probably do very well. I'm probably still in at those prices unfortunately.
I don't expect (nor want) a Lumagen rival.
If it was something more than a tone mapper, they would mention. We just hope that they will throw in there some image tweaks too...
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post #48 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Of course you're in at $400-500. But I doubt we are going to see something in the $400-500 price tag range. This is something more like a lumagen quality wise. I'd expect price to be ~10x that. But who knows. Everything's speculation. We don't even know what the device is. Something like a lumagen but running a full madVR on an HDMI input stream with HDCP and all that for $4000-5000 will compete with lumagen and probably do very well. I'm probably still in at those prices unfortunately.
Interesting development - I'm surprised Madshi didn't do this years ago to be honest. All those folks posting figures <$1,000 are dreaming though if this is a fully fledged MadVR device (i.e. tone mapping, upscaling, image processing, 3D LUT calibration etc) - I agree with Mark, if this new machine can use all the MadVR functionality its going to need to be seriously powerful. The reason devices like this, and the Lumagen, cost what they do is because of the years upon years of ongoing development, improvement and support they receive - that costs money, and has to be built into the initial sale price in the absence of any kind of subscription model.
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post #49 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 04:30 AM
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Wahoo!! Naturally this comes out 5 minutes after I finish building my htpc for madvr &#x1f642;

Edit: however, I am guessing this box is going to cost a lot more than the $250 I spent on craigslist to get my htpc
Maybe it's actually a server in disguise...….
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post #50 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 04:49 AM
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Just wondering whether crowd-funding might be an appropriate mechanism for this project?
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post #51 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:18 AM
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For this to be useful in my own system the minimal feature set is:

1x 18G HDMI 2.0 in, 1x 18G HDMI 2.0 out
3D LUT
HDR tone mapping
Aspect ratio detection
Arbitrary scaling

Anything more is gravy, as they say.
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post #52 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
For this to be useful in my own system the minimal feature set is:

1x 18G HDMI 2.0 in, 1x 18G HDMI 2.0 out
3D LUT
HDR tone mapping
Aspect ratio detection
Arbitrary scaling

Anything more is gravy, as they say.
And presumably virtual inputs or selectable user-pre-configurable profiles if you've only got one physical input?
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post #53 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:25 AM
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Rumours in Facebook are that the price is almost like LUMAGEN (around 5000$). If that's correct I will not buy this device. I will go with an HTPC instead....
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post #54 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:38 AM
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Pricing has *NOT* been decided yet. Please disregard the Facebook rumour.
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post #55 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Smack23 View Post
Rumours in Facebook are that the price is almost like LUMAGEN (around 5000$). If that's correct I will not buy this device. I will go with an HTPC instead....

Internet FUD
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post #56 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:45 AM
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Pricing has *NOT* been decided yet. Please disregard the Facebook rumour.
Thanks for the info. Hopefully the price will be around 400 - 500 Euros
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post #57 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
And presumably virtual inputs or selectable user-pre-configurable profiles if you've only got one physical input?
Yes, of course, there's a big list of stuff that is a given that any of these kind of products have to have to make sense, but those sort of things don't really affect the architecture of what it has to be capable of doing, and you could implement them on a fag packet attached to your ZX81 (almost )

The items I was pointing out were things which have a significant cost in hardware (either because they need processor budget or gates / shaders etc allocating and an architecture that accommodates them) or need actual chips and circuitry. Without each one of those things I need to still have a Lumagen in my own system, so I'd be very unlikely to add something else as well just to gain "different" tone mapping.

I understand PC based MadVR can actually do them all already (except the HDMI in without workarounds) but I wanted to state which bits I really need just in case the pre-announcement isn't just being cute in just mentioning HDR tone mapping, and this is currently anticipated as just a pure tone-mapping solution.
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post #58 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
If this is a madVR in a box, I'm in for sure. If it's just an HDR tone mapper in a box, probably not. Be interesting to see what it is. For me, madVR's best features are not its tone mapping but its 4K upscaling and video processing.
Absolutely agree! I am really hoping that this is indeed MadVR in a box, thereby dispensing with the need for a HTPC. That would be absolutely incredible!

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For this to be useful in my own system the minimal feature set is:

1x 18G HDMI 2.0 in, 1x 18G HDMI 2.0 out
3D LUT
HDR tone mapping
Aspect ratio detection
Arbitrary scaling

Anything more is gravy, as they say.
Seconded!

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post #59 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 06:46 AM
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Why do people think it's going to be over $1000 when you can build a pc to do madvr for $500? If its more than $400, might as well spend the extra for a htpc.
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post #60 of 1646 Old 03-01-2019, 06:50 AM
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If it is just a 4k tone mapping box, with nothing more, sure a $500 price point may be possible. But if it is a full blown madVR-in-a-box, you are completely off base if you think that is possible for less than $1000+
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