Originally Posted by tigerhonaker
So, just maybe the above examples will give enough of an example so those that have or seen in a H/T NOT a DEMO what's the Real-World difference having either the Lumagen or the new/latest ENVY ???
Keep it simple guys if your going to answer, please so we as laymen can understand your example/examples without all the technical explanations.
I think to have completely understood your question. My answer to your question(s) will hopefully give you some good reasons to understand why I have actually decided to spend a considerably amount of my money on the Envy. Basic Model btw.
I have read some of your posts in other threads so I know your setup (RS4500 and the calibration by Chad). I guess you are interested in a Lumagen (or an Envy) because other RS4500 owners are using it and recommending it because of better HDR reproduction quality and maybe also because it is useful with calibrations. I think their advice is justified and I have absolutely no objection against that advice or suggestion.
Yesterday a friend of mine called me and I explained him briefly why I am so sure about the Envy beeing a good investment. I had told him about my interest in the Envy already a few days and he could not understand why. He was pretty shocked about the Envy price tag first and probably originally thought that I became nuts now.
I have to add that that friend is actually using the same projector and screen like me: a Sony VW885 (VW760) on a rather small screen, 110", 16:9. We are both using a Panasonic Ub9000 as a player. This setups looks really great with all kind of video material. Like a gigantic TV. So this probably about the same like how you would describe your setup. Of course we also watch 4K / HDR material. I had spend a lot of time to optimize picture quality including loading custumn made Arve curves for HDR. So I have absolutely no problems with picture too dim, lost shadow details or blown out highlights. That's probably why he is wondering why I am so interested and keen on that product.
Our situation is quite different compared to another friend of mine who happens to own the same projector but on a much larger screen having less the brightness / Nits on screen than we have (less than half). So for a long time this guy had problems trying to get good HDR playback. He was using madVR on his computer since the start of madVR. Thats how I came in contact with madVR.
For quite some time I was not really that impressed by madVR. But some guys here on AVS forum including madshi were working very hard on it and I noted that it got better and better. These guys are mad about picture quality. These are hardcore enthusiasts and step by step, update by update it got better.... Gradatim conscenditur ad alta: step by step you get to the top ...I rembember one evening when we were comparing picture quality of about 15 movies played either in BD (SDR) or UHD BD (HDR) format in his cinema room. Despite madVR was used at that time the result in his fully optimized setup was such that only in about half of those test movies the HDR playback looked actually better than SDR. It was more or less a draw. This was pretty frustrating for my friend. But eventually this changed somewhen last winter for the much better. Now in each case HDR material looks clearly better than SDR material also on very big screens. The playback looks as good as on our smaller screens just like our optimized Pansonic playback. Like a gigantic TV. Great. That's what madVR can do. And this works for every movie. So you do not need to change anything on your projector settings ( or on the Panasonic) to adopt settings for darker or brighter movies. But madVR was madefor a PC only. I do not like a PC in my living room or in my cinema. Now the Envy is finally a device that is far easier to use than a PC.
What makes madVR so good or different ? What is the reason behind it ? That's technical but still I try to explain ...
One setting in Envy / madVR will work for you for all kind of movies because the madVR program is all the time calculating how it can make best use of the brightness of your projector. It analyses the incoming data and calculates the output by a very smart algorithm. Such that you will always get the optimal brightness output for your projector and best contrast on your screen. MadVR (Envy) will calculate 24 times per second the optimal light output based on the signal it gets. So compared to that it is like my Panasonic does only one (!) for the whole movie. That is dynamic tonemapping versus static tonemapping. Therefore madVR is of course far advanced. So the picture pocessed by Envy (madVR) will look sharper and clearer than processed by any other product on the market.
That is the reason why those guys with the big screens are appreciating dynamic tonemapping so much. But how about smaller screens I hear you saying... My friend and me have also tested madVR in my setup with the much smaller screen. The result was confirming that I had found really good settings with my Panasonic. But madVR (dynamic tonemapping) was clearly better also in my setup. The difference is not subtle. It is clear. It is not as subtle like comparing upscaling quality of a player versus that of a projector. Any lawman will see the difference immediately during normal playback. You do not need to go close to the screen and do pixle peeping. It is like comparing a very good bluray disc like Skyfall to a good DVD. Also with the DVD you see many details and there are usually not too many obvious and disturbing artifacts but with Skyfall you are just very much impressed when you are looking at it using on high quality / high end setup that is properly installed.
By madVR not only highlights became more defined but also the whole picture got punchier and somehow more cleaner. Like the difference DVD vs BD to give you an analogy.
Or in school marks it is IMO like the difference between a "good" vs a "very good" mark. When a pupil gets a "good" this shows he has understood and can handle the subject. With a very good a pupil masters the stuff. That is madVR. And that's why I want it.
Finally I would like to report of another friend of mine. This guy is using a VW5000. He is not short of money. But somehow he is not interested - yet
. I am sure this will change. I truly think that it is pretty silly to buy such an expensive projector and not using the best player for it. I am sure he will buy one when I will take my Envy to him to make a demo. People will eventually buy this expensive stuff but they need to see the difference first by comparing. That is why I am saying madVR needs to go out and demonstrate Envy. A 55" OLED at CEDIA in bright light conditions is not allowing this properly.
Finally it is important to note that Envy will not only improve HDR but also SDR playback due to its great 4K upscaling capabilities which are very useful on native 4K projectors. Apple TV, regular TV, DVD .... everything I exspect to look better. Easy connecting all kind of sources to Envy is something that no PC with madVR installed can do. With the Envy I need just to feed it with 1 HDMI cable coming the AVR and I do not need to care about how to feed my PC with various source material.
There is even more that the Envy will be able to do (according to the Info presented at CEDIA). Like black bar detection or support of calibration software incl pattern generator for calibration. But that alone would not trigger me. This is rather a welcome Add On for me.