madVR ENVY : Anticipation thread! - Page 41 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1201 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Is there AI learning on the DTM side? I thought the AI / neural net stuff was limited to the NGU upscaler.
Well great question, that is what I was wondering overall differences.

Home Theater: JVC RS2000, Stewart 120" 2:35 StudioTech 130, Panamorph DCR Lens, B&W 802 Nautilus, HTM1, 4-B&W 805's for surround, 4-Martin Logan 22's ceiling speakers ATMOS, 2- PB-16 Ultra Subs, Marantz 8802A, MacIntosh 8207 AMP and Proceed AMP 5, Panasonic 820, Apple TV, XBox One, HTPC with MadVR, Qnap NAS
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post #1202 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
How much is the Lumagen Radiance Pro MSRP pricing? Couldn't find any prices from Lumagen website, all I could find with google was $6500 and up for MSRP? You can't compare the MSRP to street prices.
The top end Lumagen has an MSRP of $8,495.
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post #1203 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The top end Lumagen has an MSRP of $8,495.
But that isn't a fair comparison right, because to compete with the Envy one input and out it is $5495. So the Envy 10K box with only one input better kill the Lumagen in video and scaling quality. It doesn't have the switching capabilities of the Lumagen.

Home Theater: JVC RS2000, Stewart 120" 2:35 StudioTech 130, Panamorph DCR Lens, B&W 802 Nautilus, HTM1, 4-B&W 805's for surround, 4-Martin Logan 22's ceiling speakers ATMOS, 2- PB-16 Ultra Subs, Marantz 8802A, MacIntosh 8207 AMP and Proceed AMP 5, Panasonic 820, Apple TV, XBox One, HTPC with MadVR, Qnap NAS
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post #1204 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Yes, this is a problem right now, but the new firmware solves this problem. Anamorphic functions will be available for 1080P 3D.
That's great news! I appreciate that JVC is listening to customers and updating.
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post #1205 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
The difference due to improved HDR tonemapping is very obvious to all of us including laymen because better tonemapping means better picture contrast. We note contrast differences better than anything else. Anyone will prefer a correct Gamma 2.2 (or 2.4) to gamma 1.8 or 2.6. This is not a matter of preference like with a "better" wine or food.
For the subject of increased sharpness due to better upscaling: here the differences become typically much smaller and not so obvious because many lack the trained eyes spotting artifacts and also not everybody has the sharp eyes or might also not sitting close enough in order to spot them. I can tell that I had found upscaling done by my projector to be better than that of the Panasonic but not as good as that by madVR. Since this will beneficial to me for many sources I consider it as a real plus for me. However I would not buy the Envy just for that reason. This is just to set those 2 things into perspective against each other.

I understand that the concept of the Envy is such that you still need a player like a Panasonic or Oppo player. It is no stand alone box.
As far as I have understood Envy is designed to be placed inbetween AVR and projector:
Envy is connected on 1 side to the AVR (by a HDMI cable) and on the other side (by another HDMI cable) to the projector. So the AVR is connected to the Panasonic, Apple TV or any other source and the AVR is feeding then the Envy. In other words: the AVR works as a switch. I think that this concept is pretty easy to install and run. Maybe too easy and simple for some.

So I exspect setting up the Envy is far less complicate than a Lumagen and can be done without a calibrator or installer. But since I have not installed it myself yet I can not really tell how simple or complicate it works in reality. It is just my guess. I hope there will be soon a manual in order to judge that matter better. On a personal note I may add that my impression is that Lumagen explanations / instructions are often quite confusing to me despite I have a scientific / technical background having worked many years in parmaceutical research. Therefore I am quick at learning new stuff and can usually set up technical hardware for measurements pretty fast. That's probably the reason why Lumagen products are often sold by calibrators coupled with a calibration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
Here Richard Litofsky, CEO of madVRLabs, says a few words about setting up the Envy. So according to him it is pretty easy and can be done in 2 minutes. That's about what I would have guessed based on the information I got so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-cO8o1nQuw

Mori,

Thanks for your post.

You know in my case I think I'll be on "Stand-By" until I see and read a heck of a lot more about the new ENVY product.
I have found that rushing into expensive decisions with limited information can actually turn into a "Disaster".
Seriously, unless some members just are in the positions to buy whatever is the newest/latest gadget I'm thinking Caution should be exercised.

If I never changed anything in my H/T again we, wife & I, would both be 100% happy.
What I'm really wanting to eventually see and read about the part where ENVY does the Up-Scaling from any source like, DVD, Blu-ray, 4K, Streaming, Dish Network etc.

I like so many others love the way HDR as well as 4K material looks.
But ...........
I'm not going to spend thousands & thousands of dollars for making HDR & 4K material to look better.
For hard-disc I have the new Panasonic UB9000 which to us seems to work just fine.
And of course I'm not saying that the UB9000 comes anywhere close to what the Lumagen or the ENVY can and does do with DTM versus I think it's called "Static-Tone-Mapping" the UB9000.

I want all the other sources to be a "Noticeable" improvement which we watch 90% of the time.

Terry
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post #1206 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 08:51 AM
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Would I benifit from an Envy coming from:

HTPC with nVidia 1050Ti running MPC-BE, LAV Filters and MadVR in DXVA going through a Denon AVC-X8500H to a Sony VPL-VW760ES. The HTPC is also running my complete Home Automation system and is therefore running 24 hours per day which made my decide to use low power hardware, hence the 1050Ti which was the min required for 4K.

Right now I don't have the GPU power to not use DXVA because the GPU will hit 100% in certain cases. I also read that Chroma upscaling is bypassed when using DXVA. So one would think that an Envy could pick up on all that I am missing out right now.

I am just wondering if the image that my HTPC produces right now will become 5K to 10K $ better when putting an Envy in the video stream. I am currently very happy with the image quality and am anxious to see what the Sony firmware update for the 760ES will bring by the end of September.
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post #1207 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
Would I benifit from an Envy coming from:

HTPC with nVidia 1050Ti running MPC-BE, LAV Filters and MadVR in DXVA going through a Denon AVC-X8500H to a Sony VPL-VW760ES. The HTPC is also running my complete Home Automation system and is therefore running 24 hours per day which made my decide to use low power hardware, hence the 1050Ti which was the min required for 4K.

Right now I don't have the GPU power to not use DXVA because the GPU will hit 100% in certain cases. I also read that Chroma upscaling is bypassed when using DXVA. So one would think that an Envy could pick up on all that I am missing out right now.

I am just wondering if the image that my HTPC produces right now will become 5K to 10K $ better when putting an Envy in the video stream. I am currently very happy with the image quality and am anxious to see what the Sony firmware update for the 760ES will bring by the end of September.
If the HTPC is the only source that you care about, and you've already got to grips with running an HTPC with MadVR until such a point as it becomes clear what features you don't get with madVR vs Envy it doesn't sound like you'd get that level of improvement, as you could get the compute performance added for the cost of the graphics card. (I've not seen clear breakdown of where the PQ is better on Envy than on free MadVR yet - unless I've missed it?)

To me it seems where you get the true benefit of the investment is where you no longer want to manage an HTPC and / or you have HDMI sources you want to process. Then you get the cost benefit of the extra cost above just the PC components required to get you to the higher performance.
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post #1208 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If the HTPC is the only source that you care about, and you've already got to grips with running an HTPC with MadVR until such a point as it becomes clear what features you don't get with madVR vs Envy it doesn't sound like you'd get that level of improvement, as you could get the compute performance added for the cost of the graphics card. (I've not seen clear breakdown of where the PQ is better on Envy than on free MadVR yet - unless I've missed it?)

To me it seems where you get the true benefit of the investment is where you no longer want to manage an HTPC and / or you have HDMI sources you want to process. Then you get the cost benefit of the extra cost above just the PC components required to get you to the higher performance.
OK Thanks. I run my HTPC with low power consumtion hardware. So with the 1050Ti I cannot use NGU and have to use DXVA because all else will be to GPU intensive for the 1050. So I have never been able to test if the image quality is that much better with NGU and I was wondering if I got myself an Envy dedicated for the stuff I cannot use on my low power HTPC running MadVR in DXVA I would be able to enhance my image even more. I guess I just have to wait for the product to arrive and arrange a demo in my own theater with my AV dealer once he has an Envy. And since the PJ is a high end Sony which handles HDR pretty good, I am not how much of an improvement can still be achieved. And yes, HTPC is the only true source I use. I do have an XBox, Apple TV and even a Dreambox but none of those are used much.
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post #1209 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 10:14 AM
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Oh my. Coming back from weekend, and 8 new pages of posts to reply to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
If for 10k I can’t have different video settings/ calibrations for different video sources and it can’t do HDMI switching that is a serious design flaw .
We're still collecting feedback from calibrators and installers about which kind of flexibility the menu should have. It's absolutely possible (and easy) for us to allow different settings for different source devices. However, it's a question of flexibility vs ease of use. Ideally we want to achieve both. We will collect all the feedback we can get and then decide which way to go for the Envy menu.

One thing we cannot do is provide multiple HDMI inputs. It's simply not possible for us. If you require a product with built-in multiple HDMI inputs then the Envy is not for you, I'm sorry.

However, a quick google search lists many available HDMI switches for reasonable prices which you could put in front of the Envy, if you require. Some of these switches can be controlled via IP or RS232.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Here's a suggestion.

Keep the main menu clutter free for ease of use. Most people who have expensive home theaters aren't technical anyways... They just want to enjoy their movies.

But then have an Advanced menu item which opens up the pandora box... this is where ppl who knows what they are doing can configure everything...
Yes, it will be our approach to keep the menu as simple as possible for the "normal" user, and to give calibrators/installers more power. But how exactly to do that we're still thinking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
it seems a little ironic that you will be claiming Envy pro as the best in the world video processor , but want an audio processor company to be expert in 4K 18G video switching ?
I don't recall having claimed that the Envy would be the best video processor in the world. Of course it's our goal to make it that. But whether or not we'll succeed with that I'll leave to other people to judge.

I see no problem leaving HDMI switching to e.g. an external HDMI matrix switch. If it's properly designed, it shouldn't harm video quality in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
regarding multiple outputs
We're still discussing this internally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
I can see having different settings for different input formats, but why do people need different settings for different input devices?
Well, I thought the same way, but seemingly some users have different needs. We're still in the process of collecting more feedback about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5mark View Post
For example, how aggressively the tone mapping changes between bright and dark scenes. I'd assume a more aggressive setting could result in a more dynamic image, but come with more risk of transition artifacts. Everyone sees/experiences things like this differently so personal preference should be part of the equation.
Yes, we will have good default values, but still allow the user to make some preference choices like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
Here's another spin on possible upgrade-ability.

Mid level
Have a mid-level unit slotted between base and pro? "Enthusiast?" Basically a unit with base model components, but slightly higher cost to cover an upgrade-able chassis (for later CPU, GPU, and HDMI upgrades). Might not be able to ever upgrade everything all the way to the big boys' Pro units, but gives piece of mind as someone else mentioned earlier.
Pro
For the big boy's pro units, maybe throw in upgrade option for multiple HDMI's someday.
.

Throw in pre-order pricing ,and you would have at least one more customer! (probably more lol)

What ever you guys decide, thanks for your great work and good luck!
Thanks!

About upgradability: I'll have an announcement about that later today.

About offering a "Pro Cinema" upgrade with multiple HDMI ports some day: Hmmmm... Might actually be possible, we'll see.

JFMI: Do other products in the same market who do have multiple HDMI inputs have all the inputs "active" at the same time? I suppose at least 2 inputs must be active at the same time to do PiP? But if there are 4 or more inputs, probably not all 4 (or more) of them are fully active, or are they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I thought the Envy looked like a great DTM / video processing solution.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Now you've got my attention! Can't wait to learn more!
Nah, this was only about internal details about how the Envy works / is designed. It was not about keeping some unannounced secret features hidden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catav View Post
Won't any new AI algorithms for Envy be automatically available for PC version?
Nope. But AI algorithms are easy relatively to transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catav View Post
Couldn't you release a special (pre-configured) PC version with specific CPU/GPU/driver,etc. constraints and charge a bundle for it? Same look and feel as Envy. MadVR/PC on steroids! I'd buy it!
The problem with any hardware project is that once you add all the extra costs, which are directly or indirectly involved, plus a bit of profit, you end up with prices users will faint with shock over. Case in point this thread. So I don't think this would work. Also, we don't want to create competition for the Envy ourselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Going back to this topic for a second, it looks like you've built in scaling modes for CIH viewers using an anamorphic lens. Will the Envy also support scaling modes for CIH viewers who do the Zoom Method and leave the projector permanently zoomed to fill the width of the screen?

OPPO calls this "21:9 Cropped." With this setting, no stretching is applied, however any 16:9 content can be scaled down to the center of the 2.35:1 image area (black bars on all four sides). Movies with variable aspect ratio can also be set to constant height, masking off the top and bottom of the image during any sections taller than 2.35:1.

Will the Envy be able to do something like that?
This is actually exactly the setup I'm using atm in my home. The way you setup madVR / Envy for this is that you tell the Envy which parts of your screen (or which pixels of your panels) are actually visible and which are not. And the Envy will then automatically zoom any video to fit into the visible screen area. Of course if no zooming is needed (e.g. for true scope movies), no zooming will be performed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
How does processing power of the 2 Envy models compare to the Radiance Pro models ?
I am aware that smart und efficient programming is very important as well for the final performance on screen but I am asking nevertheless.
I've no idea which kind of FPGA the Radiance Pro uses, and even if I knew, I wouldn't want to make any hard claims, personally.

Generally, though, when I researched which kind of GFLOPS I could get by using an FPGA, I thought the GFLOPS per dollar ratio you seem to get with FPGAs was rather disappointing. Of course GFLOPS is only one metric, though and may not always faithfully describe the true power of an architecture. But after my research into FPGAs, I quickly decided that using an Nvidia GPU would be the way to go for me. Primary reason being GFLOPS per dollar. Secondary reason ease of development.

Is anybody here an expert on FPGA processing power? Can you say how many GFLOPS e.g. a $1k FPGA would be able to provide today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
given that most HDMI out devices don't have "resolution source direct" options - where the output resolution follows the content resolution - the opportunity for taking advantage of the NGU scaling are quite limited (in a plug and play system). I know Oppo and Sony UHD disc players can do it, and some players like the Zidoo, but stuff like the AppleTV4k and other more consumer targeted devices don't have any way to do this so the benefit of NGU would be lost for 1080 content.

I guess it shouldn't be "that hard" to build an algorithm that can spot the "simple" upscalers that are being used in these SOC devices and reverse back to the original 1080p pixels for re-processing to 4K via NGU? Would be a cool feature
Unfortunately there are different versions of "simple" upscalers. I could create special versions of NGU for each such cheap upscaler, but automatically detecting the cheap upscaler might be very difficult. E.g. is the edge blurry because the cheap upscaler rendered it that way? Or maybe it was already blurry in the source?

What I could do is create one NGU variant each for the most commonly used devices. E.g. one for ApplyTV, one for Shield etc. But then, the upscaling algo used by these devices could in theory change with a future firmware. And providing an NGU variant for each such device would require a *ton* of AI training.

But your idea is actually not bad at all. I'll keep it in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
What would you recommend? I really want easy, and more important faster HDMI switching. especially netflix/hulu/amazon when it's 4k, vs. hdr, vs 1080p, or swapping between apps sometimes, the handshake blank sccreen for 15 seconds I can handle but wife and kids can't.. was trying to figure out if adding a HDfury would help.

I think if i'm reading it right madvrenvy might be better for my setup? I wouldn't ahve both right?
Having both wouldn't really help, I would say. It seems you're happy with your current setup, except for the HDMI switching times? It's impossible for me to say where those 15 seconds switching time come from. Which of the devices produces that? I've no idea. And it's hard to say if using an Envy would help there. E.g. if your Arcam or BenQ is responsible for the slow sync times then the Envy won't be able to do much about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
I only have seen a picture of the Pro model. Can somebody please share more pictures of the device?
We haven't fully finalized the design yet, but atm I don't think the Pro Cinema model will look much different to the base model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
It's going to be pulling significant power out of the wall which will pretty much all be turned to heat, so a closed cabinet (without airflow) would be a bad idea. Your cabinet will need to have some airflow through it otherwise it will cook.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
Is there going to be a PiP or Split Screen or Demo option (like the Darbee has) to be able to simply see the difference between touched and untouched video. This would make it easy to select the right algo's for personal taste.
Ric (CEO and marketing) keeps asking for that, so he can better demo the benefits of the Envy. It's a bit difficult, though, because many of the algos can't be turned "off" for half the screen. E.g. I can't upscale half the screen and let the other half be not-upscaled. That simply doesn't work. The only thing I could do is upscale half the screen with our AI algorithm, and use a simple and cheap algorithm (e.g. Bicubic) for the other half. Or for HDR, I cannot tell the display that half the screen is HDR and the other half is SDR. See the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
This project appears very ambitious, even overly so, which is reflected in the very high price and size of the unit. I was hoping for a baked in, small form factor, sleek, solution with less hassle and price than owning a Lumagen. I just don’t see the point here.
The point is that I don't like compromises. madVR has always been about providing the best possible image quality I could achieve, regardless of what that means for the hardware. As such, the Envy Pro Cinema uses a monster of a GPU, the Nvidia 2080 Ti, so we have the highest computational power available that we could reasonably get. Of course that means it's pricey and needs a big case. If you don't like this approach, then the Envy is not the ideal fit for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
If Panasonic developed such a DTM, scaling, aspect ratio control box... I bet it would be a fraction of the size and a fraction of the price.
If it were a fraction of the size and a fraction of the price then it would also be a fraction of the computational power. I'll leave it to you what that might mean for image quality. There's no free lunch here. The key reason why madVR provides good image quality is because I throw a lot of computational resources at the various image processing tasks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd_smoker View Post
Have you considered the possibility of licensing your proprietary algorithms? Being that they do seem to be superior to anything else out there, I wouldn't be surprised if companies like Lumagen, Panasonic, JVC, etc. would be interested. Perhaps as a fallback if the hardware route doesn't pan out for whatever reason...
Thanks!

I'm generally open to the idea. Actually at CEDIA one big company hinted that they might be interested in licensing the upscaling algo. But I'm not sure if anything is going to come out of that. The general problem is that most of my algorithms require a huge amount of processing power, and TV/projector companies are unlikely to be interested in the idea of adding an Nvidia 2080 Ti GPU into their products...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Rogers View Post
Man I was really hoping for something in the 1500 to 2k mark but 5.5 or 10k is just to much tbh..

For those prices I think it would be best to just buy a better projector / TV which will make a more noticeable difference..
I fully understand. If your projector is due for an update, anyway, I might make the same decision, if I were in your shoes. That said, I would suppose that a product like the Envy would probably survive a couple of projectors. But then, a lot depends on how often you upgrade your projector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by two_tonn View Post
People just wanted the Envy to be cheaper and now some are saddened....it will still sell, it's just not for everybody...much like any product in the world.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
It’s likely a matter of time before new (big $) models do DTM though.
You're probably right. But just as upscaling algo X and upscaling algo Y are different, so will be DTM algo X and DTM algo Y. So even if every device will have DTM in 1-2 years from now, that still doesn't mean the Envy might not be needed, anymore. The Envy has some extra tricks up its sleeve, which will be hard to replicate by implementations who have less processing power available. For example, the Envy does its processing in very high bitdepth and in special extra faithful color spaces, and it has extra processing steps such as Highlight Recovery (and others).

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
MadVR's NGU AI based upscaling is the best I've ever seen.
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
It's in a completely different league than Lumagen's upscaler, which is more like a standard bicubic upscale with some anti-ringing applied.
If you read the last few posts made by Jim Peterson, you'll get some more information about this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post
I disagree. I have been using MadVR for at least 6 or 7 years. To me being able to apply MadVR processing to streaming video is a win.

Is it expensive? Yes; but so is my projector, my Paladin lens, my pre-pro and amps, my guitars - you get the idea. It may be a hard sell to you. It may be be a hard sell in your circle of influence; doesn't mean it is a hard sell to everybody.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Rogers View Post
You call it a marvel I call it a small improvement.. I never said it wasn't noticable but as with all things diminishing returns start to apply.
It definitely also depends on the user. Some users are more sensitive to DLP rainbows than others, some more to 3:2 pulldown judder, some more to aliasing, some more to banding, some more to soft edges or textures. Etc etc. Everybody's eyes are different. So for some users high quality upscaling will make more of a difference than to other users. And a lot depends on the content, as well. E.g. try some of the 4K mastered Studio Ghibli Blu-Rays, e.g. Spirited Away. These are not available in 4K yet, but the latest 1080p Blu-Rays look absolutely fantastic when run through NGU Sharp upscaling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Your point is a generalization that can be made of any high end product: automobiles, watches, golf clubs, boats, skis, etc. Madvr Envy was never intended for the masses. The target market will deliver it's own assessment of this product. Either it will still be here 5 years from now or it won't. But it won't because of its price point. It is not an entry level car competing against other entry level cars in price. madVR Envy is a high end performance car, whose owners only care if it crushes the competition. Price really isn't part of the equation at the demographic this product is aimed at. It will be based upon its performance. It it performs for the people who can afford it, the price just doesn't matter. What matters to those fortunate few who can buy it is its performance. Period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by supersergios View Post
My JVC RS540 projector (new paid € 3,300) + PC with 1080ti and free MadVR (computer € 1200 second hand).
3300 + 1200 = € 4,500
amazing quality in 150” !!!

——-

JVC RS540 + Envy (€ 5,000) + ChinOppo (- PC sale) = payment € 4,500 to “gain quality”
...for this price if I also sell the RS540 and I could get the NX7 (keeping the PC).

///

If I opt for the € 10,000 Envy and make the same accounts I could reach Nx9 in a year when the price drops.

it have logic in my case or any similar?
Sure, I fully understand you. Of course a big question is: How many sources do you have in addition to your HTPC? If you run most sources through your HTPC, and if you're reasonably happy with your HTPC, then if I were in your shoes, I would keep the HTPC and upgrade the projector instead.

The Envy is intended for users who hate HTPCs, or for users who desparately want the HDMI input. If that's not you, then your most cost effective way forward is to keep your madVR HTPC and not get an Envy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
I want an Envy so much but I think I may have to wait...my wallet, and more importantly, the Mrs. that holds that wallet, is not going to allow me to get it at that price point.
I perfectly understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post
Count me in as interested in the Envy base version. By the way since Madvr are open to suggestion, could you please name the base model anything but base. This device will run MadVr the ultimate video processing software so this will not be basic in any way. Maybe call one the Envy Ultra and the top one the Envy Pro.
Good call! We've already been discussing names for the "base model", but haven't made a decision yet. It's my impression from reading this thread that using the "base model" moniker leads to the impression that it's an underpowered limited device, compared to the Pro Cinema model. Which is of course not at all what we intended. If you guys have good ideas for a name, we're all ears. "Ultra" is a bit problematic because it's not clear if "Ultra" is a higher or lower tier compared to "Pro Cinema".

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post
Make the base model upgradable.
More on that later.

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Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post
Make sure all MadVr functions are available on both models. Why blocking or limiting a functionality. The only difference with both model should be the hardware power and quality. I agree some algorithme may not run at the highest level on the base model but that is to be expected.
We're still discussing what the exact differences between both models should be. Obviously, there will be hardware differences. But in the attempt of motivating more users to shell out the extra cash for the Pro Cinema model, we're looking for ways to make it more attractive. As a result, there may be differences in warranty length, warranty services and some other things. But I do intend to keep the feature set of the algorithms identical. But of course the Pro Cinema might run each algo in slightly higher quality, thanks to the extra processing power.

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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
You can't sustain a business like this without at least a 5X cost to sale ratio... you generally want more than that...
I *wish* !!!

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Originally Posted by alps006 View Post
My current PC madVR setup (test build 87) gives me a fantastic picture with rich colors and tons of detail. How much of an improvement Envy would make to this already great picture is really a question.
We've not fully decided yet which quality levels of which algorithms will be available where. For example, it's possible that we might add an "NGU Sharp Crazy" upscaling quality level on top of "NGU Sharp Very High" and maybe we would make that exclusive to the Envy line of products. But we haven't fully decided yet. And even if we do, we're talking small quality differences here.

Really, the key selling point of the Envy line of products is the HDMI input, and the ease of use and reliability. So if you want to get rid of your HTPC, to have it replaced with a stable & reliable CE type device, with an added HDMI input for other sources, then the Envy is for you. Otherwise it's perfectly fine to stay with your madVR HTPC.

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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Here's a great business idea for Madshi.

License the MadVR to projector makers...
Yes, I'm open to the idea. I've commented on this already earlier, see some lines above.

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Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
Why not just remove the "base" from the name? So you have the "Envy" and the "Envy Pro".
That was actually Ric's original plan. But it's ambiguous to some extent. E.g. if we write "The Envy does this or that", then do we mean the entire line of products or do we mean the more affordable model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
One question regarding "the base is good for 24Hz material, the pro is good up to 60Hz".
What happens if 60hz material is fed to the base? Does it refuse to play (which would be bad) or is it just switching off some functionality (which would be fine for me)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I'm pretty sure they mean with all the options cranked. It will definitely be able to support 60hz content. It just might not be able to max out all the algorithms while doing so.
Yes. I'll write a more detailed clarification about this later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
It will have to disable (a lot of) higher powered algorithm settings to still be smooth. In madVR you have profiles for these things so in ENVY it would be hard coded profiles. To be clear, the 2080TI card cannot max out madVR at 60fps today. So even the $10k pro unit will have to make compromises at that frame rate.
FWIW, madVR does not use the Tensor cores, as of yet. The Tensor cores will give us nearly a 10x speed improvement - but only for AI algorithms. *But* memory speed doesn't improve at all. So I'm not sure how much faster it will be, with 10x more GFLOPS, but same VRAM speed. We'll have to wait and see, but by making use of the Tensor cores, I think we should have a lot of extra headroom.

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Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
Yesterday a friend of mine called me and I explained him briefly why I am so sure about the Envy beeing a good investment. I had told him about my interest in the Envy already a few days and he could not understand why. He was pretty shocked about the Envy price tag first and probably originally thought that I became nuts now. I have to add that that friend is actually using the same projector and screen like me: a Sony VW885 (VW760) on a rather small screen, 110", 16:9. We are both using a Panasonic Ub9000 as a player. This setups looks really great with all kind of video material. Like a gigantic TV. So this probably about the same like how you would describe your setup. Of course we also watch 4K / HDR material. I had spend a lot of time to optimize picture quality including loading custumn made Arve curves for HDR. So I have absolutely no problems with picture too dim, lost shadow details or blown out highlights. That's probably why he is wondering why I am so interested and keen on that product.

Our situation is quite different compared to another friend of mine who happens to own the same projector but on a much larger screen having less the brightness / Nits on screen than we have (less than half). So for a long time this guy had problems trying to get good HDR playback. He was using madVR on his computer since the start of madVR. Thats how I came in contact with madVR.

For quite some time I was not really that impressed by madVR. But some guys here on AVS forum including madshi were working very hard on it and I noted that it got better and better. These guys are mad about picture quality. These are hardcore enthusiasts and step by step, update by update it got better.... Gradatim conscenditur ad alta: step by step you get to the top ...I rembember one evening when we were comparing picture quality of about 15 movies played either in BD (SDR) or UHD BD (HDR) format in his cinema room. Despite madVR was used at that time the result in his fully optimized setup was such that only in about half of those test movies the HDR playback looked actually better than SDR. It was more or less a draw. This was pretty frustrating for my friend. But eventually this changed somewhen last winter for the much better. Now in each case HDR material looks clearly better than SDR material also on very big screens. The playback looks as good as on our smaller screens just like our optimized Pansonic playback. Like a gigantic TV. Great. That's what madVR can do. And this works for every movie. So you do not need to change anything on your projector settings ( or on the Panasonic) to adopt settings for darker or brighter movies. But madVR was madefor a PC only. I do not like a PC in my living room or in my cinema. Now the Envy is finally a device that is far easier to use than a PC.

What makes madVR so good or different ? What is the reason behind it ? That's technical but still I try to explain ...
One setting in Envy / madVR will work for you for all kind of movies because the madVR program is all the time calculating how it can make best use of the brightness of your projector. It analyses the incoming data and calculates the output by a very smart algorithm. Such that you will always get the optimal brightness output for your projector and best contrast on your screen. MadVR (Envy) will calculate 24 times per second the optimal light output based on the signal it gets. So compared to that it is like my Panasonic does only one (!) for the whole movie. That is dynamic tonemapping versus static tonemapping. Therefore madVR is of course far advanced. So the picture pocessed by Envy (madVR) will look sharper and clearer than processed by any other product on the market.

That is the reason why those guys with the big screens are appreciating dynamic tonemapping so much. But how about smaller screens I hear you saying... My friend and me have also tested madVR in my setup with the much smaller screen. The result was confirming that I had found really good settings with my Panasonic. But madVR (dynamic tonemapping) was clearly better also in my setup. The difference is not subtle. It is clear. It is not as subtle like comparing upscaling quality of a player versus that of a projector. Any lawman will see the difference immediately during normal playback. You do not need to go close to the screen and do pixle peeping. It is like comparing a very good bluray disc like Skyfall to a good DVD. Also with the DVD you see many details and there are usually not too many obvious and disturbing artifacts but with Skyfall you are just very much impressed when you are looking at it using on high quality / high end setup that is properly installed.
By madVR not only highlights became more defined but also the whole picture got punchier and somehow more cleaner. Like the difference DVD vs BD to give you an analogy.

Or in school marks it is IMO like the difference between a "good" vs a "very good" mark. When a pupil gets a "good" this shows he has understood and can handle the subject. With a very good a pupil masters the stuff. That is madVR. And that's why I want it.

Finally I would like to report of another friend of mine. This guy is using a VW5000. He is not short of money. But somehow he is not interested - yet . I am sure this will change. I truly think that it is pretty silly to buy such an expensive projector and not using the best player for it. I am sure he will buy one when I will take my Envy to him to make a demo. People will eventually buy this expensive stuff but they need to see the difference first by comparing. That is why I am saying madVR needs to go out and demonstrate Envy. A 55" OLED at CEDIA in bright light conditions is not allowing this properly.

Finally it is important to note that Envy will not only improve HDR but also SDR playback due to its great 4K upscaling capabilities which are very useful on native 4K projectors. Apple TV, regular TV, DVD .... everything I exspect to look better. Easy connecting all kind of sources to Envy is something that no PC with madVR installed can do. With the Envy I need just to feed it with 1 HDMI cable coming the AVR and I do not need to care about how to feed my PC with various source material.

There is even more that the Envy will be able to do (according to the Info presented at CEDIA). Like black bar detection or support of calibration software incl pattern generator for calibration. But that alone would not trigger me. This is rather a welcome Add On for me.
Great post - thank you!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
does it have an Automatic-Setting and then it does it's thing without having a Custom Calibrator Person to actual set it up like I understand you need with the Lumagen ???
The calibrator person will come with a good meter and calibration software to measure/profile your display and correct any small (or big) mistakes your display might make. This is not something the Envy can magically do for you. So if you want your display to be perfectly calibrated, you still need some calibrator person to come by.

Other than that, the Envy should be very easy to use, though, like Plug & Play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
The Base Envy being limited to 24hz is unfortunate.
It's not. Not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Also is the Envy going to be easier to set up (DTM) than a Lumagen? Are there any simplified presets available where an extensive calibration/set up are not needed?
If no calibration is needed, then for DTM setup, the Envy just wants to know the peak nits of your display (and a good guess should already suffice). That's all. No further setup required.

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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
This is really late as I was busy at CEDIA, but why couldn't you just put an HDMI switch inside the Envy?

Provide the HDMI switch's inputs on the back of the Envy box, and internally wire it's output to your custom HDMI input chip.

You would also use an HDMI switch that you can control via RS232 or similar so that the madVR software can intelligently control which HDMI switch input is being used.
Not sure if those switches would fit into the case, plus they would harm air flow. But the most important reason is that many users won't need such a switch. So by adding it into the Envy case, it would raise the cost (and our sales prices) for all users, although only few will need it.

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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
It is exactly Lumagen pro pricing, as long as you are comparing apples to apples. The cheapest 4K Lumagen 18Ghz unit has an MSRP of $5,495.
Thank you for chiming in!

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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
It would be interesting to understand the difference and what one approach (Lumagen) to DTM vs Envy (AI Learning) does.
I don't think neither we (madVR Labs, LLC) nor Lumagen knows each other's implementation too well, so it's hard to compare for either of us. In the end the final image quality counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Is there AI learning on the DTM side? I thought the AI / neural net stuff was limited to the NGU upscaler.
DTM currently does not use AI. However, I already have some ideas for how to make use of AI (in 2 different ways) to improve our DTM. But that's for the future.

Currently AI algorithms are NGU Upscaling & Mosquito Noise Reduction. More to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
How much additional cost would be added per additional HDMI input, HDMI output?
Outputs are easy. The hardware is already there. It's only a question of how complicated to make the software/menu.

Inputs are the big problem for us. We'd need to have our HDMI input manufacturer to create a new hardware design. And if you even want more than just 1 input to be "active" at the same time (e.g. for PiP), that would be even more difficult. Can't give you an exact number, but it would be pretty expensive for us. Plus, we can't do some Envys like this and some like that. They all need to be the same, or else our cost will increase even more.

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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
But that isn't a fair comparison right, because to compete with the Envy one input and out it is $5495.
If the number of HDMI inputs is very important to you then you might not be happy with the Envy. Of course it's only one feature of many.

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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
I want all the other sources to be a "Noticeable" improvement which we watch 90% of the time.
The problem is that what is "noticeable" to user A will be invisible to user B. So this is something only your eyes will be able to judge.
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post #1210 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 10:20 AM
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So here goes:

We've changed our minds, and the Envy base model (name TBD) will actually be upgradable to HDMI 2.1 (for a cost).

But it will probably not be upgradable beyond HDMI 2.1, while the Pro Cinema model will. And please keep in mind that our cost for the HDMI input is pretty high, so the upgrade cost to HDMI 2.1 will not be ultra cheap. But of course we'll try to make it fair. Don't know yet what the cost will be.
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post #1211 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
Would I benifit from an Envy coming from:

HTPC with nVidia 1050Ti running MPC-BE, LAV Filters and MadVR in DXVA going through a Denon AVC-X8500H to a Sony VPL-VW760ES. The HTPC is also running my complete Home Automation system and is therefore running 24 hours per day which made my decide to use low power hardware, hence the 1050Ti which was the min required for 4K.

Right now I don't have the GPU power to not use DXVA because the GPU will hit 100% in certain cases. I also read that Chroma upscaling is bypassed when using DXVA. So one would think that an Envy could pick up on all that I am missing out right now.

I am just wondering if the image that my HTPC produces right now will become 5K to 10K $ better when putting an Envy in the video stream. I am currently very happy with the image quality and am anxious to see what the Sony firmware update for the 760ES will bring by the end of September.

Sounds to me like you would be better served by either going with option A: Upgrade to a top-tier gpu card or option B: Get the Envy. I doubt there is any reason at all to run both setups simultaneously...
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post #1212 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 10:49 AM
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@madshi When you have the db noise levels and BTU emission from the Base model and Pro model, please post. If unable to state details, then are the fans high quality, large and slow moving, which create very low db levels? Is the heat output levels mild, moderate or fairly high? In other words, can these units be placed inside a theater without disrupting the theater environment. Thank you.

How about Base model: Envy Cinema
Pro model: Envy Pro Cinema
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Sounds to me like you would be better served by either going with option A: Upgrade to a top-tier gpu card or option B: Get the Envy. I doubt there is any reason at all to run both setups simultaneously...
The OP is running their automation on the HTPC too and it sounds like it is also his source, so to an extent they're going to end up running both if they go for option B without moving to a different setup for playback and automation.
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post #1214 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
The OP is running their automation on the HTPC too and it sounds like it is also his source, so to an extent they're going to end up running both if they go for option B without moving to a different setup for playback and automation.
Correct, my HTPC will stay as a source and it needs to stay at low power. So I will not change the 1050Ti for a 2080Ti or anything in between. And then the question is; will I get worthy results with an Envy while using a 1050Ti with MadVR @ DXVA as a source for both 1080p and 4K HDR.
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As for the split screen or demo option, maybe a one second turning algo's on and off could be possible?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The top end Lumagen has an MSRP of $8,495.
Envy has pushed me into the market for a new JVC. Will be hoping that new DTM is a big hit!

MadVR and Lumagen will find extremely tiny and ever shrinking market for high dollar processing if JVC (and others) continues to improve. My guess is that both companies will have tie-ins with the mega dollar, lifestyle custom install segment. They better, anyhow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
The OP is running their automation on the HTPC too and it sounds like it is also his source, so to an extent they're going to end up running both if they go for option B without moving to a different setup for playback and automation.

Couldn't he simply remove madVR from the equation to run option B? Use the htpc as the source and uninstall madVR and kick it out to the ENVY as an unaltered source (mkv's or whatever).

In his situation, I'd just upgrade his gpu for a fraction of what the ENVY will cost him and call it a day...

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post #1218 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
@madshi When you have the db noise levels and BTU emission from the Base model and Pro model, please post. If unable to state details, then are the fans high quality, large and slow moving, which create very low db levels? Is the heat output levels mild, moderate or fairly high? In other words, can these units be placed inside a theater without disrupting the theater environment. Thank you.
I ask madshi to create a ugly and loud edition of the Envy, but he refused to do so because he didn´t want to let go from the high quality and low noise fans he has chosen. So yes, they are high quality, large and slow moving, creating low db levels.

In terms of BTU: of course i don´t have figures for the Envy, but a RTX2080Ti with high utilization easily jumps to 70°C (>150° F). Add to this CPU temperature (shouldn´t be too high). The fans will blow out the hot air out of the case quickly, but the heat is there and will warm up the environment for sure.
But indeed, exakt BTU figures should be available the least for installers to be able to plan for proper housing of the Envy.
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post #1219 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
That was actually Ric's original plan. But it's ambiguous to some extent. E.g. if we write "The Envy does this or that", then do we mean the entire line of products or do we mean the more affordable model?
Good point.

Quote:
Ric (CEO and marketing) keeps asking for that, so he can better demo the benefits of the Envy. It's a bit difficult, though, because many of the algos can't be turned "off" for half the screen. E.g. I can't upscale half the screen and let the other half be not-upscaled. That simply doesn't work. The only thing I could do is upscale half the screen with our AI algorithm, and use a simple and cheap algorithm (e.g. Bicubic) for the other half. Or for HDR, I cannot tell the display that half the screen is HDR and the other half is SDR. See the problem?
What about a second HDMI out with a bypass option? This way, you can´t do the comparison on one screen, but at least you could place two displays side-by-side.
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post #1220 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
Correct, my HTPC will stay as a source and it needs to stay at low power. So I will not change the 1050Ti for a 2080Ti or anything in between. And then the question is; will I get worthy results with an Envy while using a 1050Ti with MadVR @ DXVA as a source for both 1080p and 4K HDR.
I must say I find your logic hard to follow. The Envy is going to have one of those class of graphics cards you don't want to add, plus an extra CPU and power supply / storage etc. The Envy sounds like it is going to be a good product, but even then there aren't magical AI neural net pixies making the BTU from the Envy disappear , so net effect will have to be more combined airflow in your installation to move the increased heat, from the Envy added to your existing HTPC setup. @madshi has already said this is a conventional (forced air) cooling setup.

Of course if you just don't want to be involved with HTPC meddling any more then that is a great reason to use an Envy (or another external solution) - but it sounds like you're there already and keeping the HTPC in service for the automation and playback, so I really struggle to understand the objection to sticking a bigger GFX card in it.

But anyway, best of luck with whatever you go for.
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post #1221 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
What about a second HDMI out with a bypass option? This way, you can´t do the comparison on one screen, but at least you could place two displays side-by-side.
I thought it already has a bypass HDMI out which sounds like it is located on the input card? No idea if that can be active at the same time as the main HDMI out from the graphics card though.
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post #1222 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
@madshi When you have the db noise levels and BTU emission from the Base model and Pro model, please post. If unable to state details, then are the fans high quality, large and slow moving, which create very low db levels? Is the heat output levels mild, moderate or fairly high? In other words, can these units be placed inside a theater without disrupting the theater environment. Thank you.



How about Base model: Envy Cinema

Pro model: Envy Pro Cinema


This is also my biggest question
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post #1223 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I must say I find your logic hard to follow. The Envy is going to have one of those class of graphics cards you don't want to add, plus an extra CPU and power supply / storage etc. The Envy sounds like it is going to be a good product, but even then there aren't magical AI neural net pixies making the BTU from the Envy disappear , so net effect will have to be more combined airflow in your installation to move the increased heat, from the Envy added to your existing HTPC setup.
As far as i understand (might be wrong though), bumper doesn´t want to replace the 1050 with a bigger card, because the PC needs to run 24x7 because of some automation software that is running on it and he doesn´t want to have its higher power consumption.
However, a bigger GPU shouldn´t be an issue in such a setup since power consumption only goes up if the GPU is challenged during media playback. If no media playback is running, the GPU is not used at all and in that case it doesn´t consume more energy than the 1050 (perhaps a bit more).
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post #1224 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
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I thought it already has a bypass HDMI out which sounds like it is located on the input card? No idea if that can be active at the same time as the main HDMI out from the graphics card though.
Ah OK, then is missed that piece of information.
But even if not, a simple HDMI Splitter in front of the Envy could solve the side-by-side comparison issue.
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I must say I find your logic hard to follow. The Envy is going to have one of those class of graphics cards you don't want to add, plus an extra CPU and power supply / storage etc. The Envy sounds like it is going to be a good product, but even then there aren't magical AI neural net pixies making the BTU from the Envy disappear , so net effect will have to be more combined airflow in your installation to move the increased heat, from the Envy added to your existing HTPC setup. @madshi has already said this is a conventional (forced air) cooling setup.

Of course if you just don't want to be involved with HTPC meddling any more then that is a great reason to use an Envy (or another external solution) - but it sounds like you're there already and keeping the HTPC in service for the automation and playback, so I really struggle to understand the objection to sticking a bigger GFX card in it.

But anyway, best of luck with whatever you go for.
Since the HTPC runs 24/7 for automation tasks, I designed it with low power consumption hardware. The Envy would only consume power when watching a movie and would be switched off when not watching a movie. The HTPC will be powered on always. I don't want an overpowerd Graphics card using electricity while not using its power for 95% of the day. Same goes for the CPU. But when watching a movie, I turn on Amps, a Projector and what have you, which all consume lots of power but only for the remainder of the movie. Does that make sense?
I am also running Windows 7 and not 10 because I don't like W10 at all and the mobo is not even on the latest PCI standard so the better GPU would suffer in that respect as well. The HTPC however does do all of its tasks superb 24/7 without too much of power consumption and plenty of speed for its use case.

I don't mind adding an Envy to the system as long as the net results are visible and much better. And that was my original question.
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post #1226 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
As far as i understand (might be wrong though), bumper doesn´t want to replace the 1050 with a bigger card, because the PC needs to run 24x7 because of some automation software that is running on it and he doesn´t want to have its higher power consumption.
However, a bigger GPU shouldn´t be an issue in such a setup since power consumption only goes up if the GPU is challenged during media playback. If no media playback is running, the GPU is not used at all and in that case it doesn´t consume more energy than the 1050 (perhaps a bit more).
As I say, I think that logic is flawed and ultimately sees you pulling more and not less power out of the wall.
There are lots of good reasons to get this or another solution - wanting to use it for HDMI sources, not wanting to "do" HTPC anymore, leaving someone else to make hardware, but saving electricity or reducing noise over an existing well designed HTPC that was staying in service wouldn't be one.
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post #1227 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So here goes:

We've changed our minds, and the Envy base model (name TBD) will actually be upgradable to HDMI 2.1 (for a cost).

But it will probably not be upgradable beyond HDMI 2.1, while the Pro Cinema model will. And please keep in mind that our cost for the HDMI input is pretty high, so the upgrade cost to HDMI 2.1 will not be ultra cheap. But of course we'll try to make it fair. Don't know yet what the cost will be.
Given that the Envy is based on standard off the shelf PC hardware (HDCP input card aside) and case size, and you’ve said that both the base model and Cinema Pro will have access to the same algos and processing, what is to stop an owner of the base model buying a 2080Ti and swapping out the GPU, essentially giving themselves the same processing power as the Cinema Pro and allowing them to max out the processing settings?

Or will there be some sort of software level restriction that locks them out of being able to change the GPU?
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post #1228 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Nah, this was only about internal details about how the Envy works / is designed. It was not about keeping some unannounced secret features hidden.
I'm an engineer and I get very religious about hardware and software design and adoption even if those layers of the system don't necessarily translate into any significant change in the user experience. I'm really curious about the internals, but I understand some things will always be kept secret
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post #1229 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
Since the HTPC runs 24/7 for automation tasks, I designed it with low power consumption hardware. The Envy would only consume power when watching a movie and would be switched off when not watching a movie. The HTPC will be powered on always. I don't want an overpowerd Graphics card using electricity while not using its power for 95% of the day. Same goes for the CPU.
As i stated before, as long as you don´t watch a movie, CPU utilization will be low and GPU will not be utilized at all in your HTPC. So power consumption will be low at that times.
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post #1230 of 1467 Old 09-16-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
As I say, I think that logic is flawed and ultimately sees you pulling more and not less power out of the wall.
There are lots of good reasons to get this or another solution - wanting to use it for HDMI sources, not wanting to "do" HTPC anymore, leaving someone else to make hardware, but saving electricity or reducing noise over an existing well designed HTPC that was staying in service wouldn't be one.
Agree
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