Can't believe how time flies! Sorry for the lack of replies recently.
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior
I wonder what @madshi
would say is the "most pure" output format his box is capable of. Then, I am curious how many display devices both accept and accurately render it.
How do you define "most pure"?
I would say (hope) that probably the Envy will have higher quality processing than most (all?) displays. So ideally I would want to choose an output setting which minimizes the processing in the display. But how do we do that? With some displays it might be better to output YCbCr, but with other displays it might be possible to output RGB and not have the display convert it back to YCbCr internally. So in that case RGB output would be "more pure". Generally, I like the idea of outputting a gamma curve to the display, instead of using PQ. This way we can be 100% sure that the display doesn't do tone mapping. However, we know that some displays (e.g. LG OLEDs) run with higher luminance if they receive an HDR signal. So driving these with a gamma curve comes with a luminance hit.
So overall, there's no simple answer. I wish there was.
Originally Posted by G-Rex
I believe in building a rock solid foundation first, before I get to the frosting on the cake, which is exactly what I have done in my theater and have zero regrets.
1) Get the best projector I can buy/afford [...]
2) Next, add a DCR type lens if feasible to maximize brightness and resolution (unfortunately in my theater the Paladin is not feasible). This I, and many others, prioritize over a VP.
Just wondering: Do you need more brightness for SDR content? I guess I can see that need for 3D. But for 2D? Most people complaining about the lack of brightness are talking about HDR, and there a good dynamic tone mapping implementation will give you much more brightness gain than a DCR type lens. However, the lens will help with 3D, as well, of course.
Originally Posted by Bumper
OK, my question was if I were to put an Envy in my Windows 7 chain, would the Envy solve this problem? So would the Envy tell my Sony to switch between HDR and back to SDR based on meta data received from my Windows 7 HTPC?
Why don't you let the HTPC do tone mapping? Then you don't need it to switch the output into SDR vs HDR modes. That would probably be the easiest solution to your problem. Provided, of course, your GPU is fast enough to perform the tone mapping. Otherwise, I don't think the Envy will help in this situation, because the problem occurs on your HTPC, and the Envy doesn't have enough information to detect the problem.
Originally Posted by coxy2416
For the cost of envy I would rather spend that money and upgrade from a X790 to an RS2000.
I was very interested at first but once JVC announced their DTM i have no need for an external solution.
FWIW, have you seen this article?
It's written in German, but google translator should help.
Originally Posted by bobof
I must say I don't currently keep up much with the very latest MadVR developments in the DTM thread as it isn't so relevant to my usage (until an Envy is delivered). I always thought that the big requirements came from not the tone mapping but the scaling (or at least, I thought that was the case at some point in the development). Has that changed, or was I always mistaken?
There are various parts to tone mapping. Some are more demanding than others. Over time I've added more processing steps to tone mapping which are quite demanding. E.g. there's one step which repairs damage that tone mapping did to the luminance channel. Or there's another algorithm called "Highlight Recovery" which splits the image into low and high frequency components and only tone maps the low frequencies. This basically prevents texture detail from being compressed (= reduced in visibility) by tone mapping. These processing steps can be performed using different underlying filters. But if you want to do these kind of algorithms without any halo (or other) image artifacts, you need filters which are computationally quite expensive.
FYI, I think no other tone mapping algorithm on the market (at least none used for real time playback) does any of what I described above. And my business partner would probably like me to add now that our algos are patent pending...
There's probably still some room left to optimize madVR's tone mapping algorithms. But if you want the highest possible quality, there's no avoiding the need for relatively high computational power.
Originally Posted by megamanwilson
Talking crazy here, would it be possible for madvr pro to have a madvr video player where you type a web address and all of the video in that webpage be view with madvr video player or have a madvr internet browser add on where you use firefox,ie,chrome and all the videos in the browser have madvr video quality.
As several users already commented (thanks guys), this doesn't seem very feasible. There are two main reasons: 1) Streaming services are copy protected. 2) madVR is only a video renderer, it's not a player and it's not a decoder. You could ask your favorite media player why they don't do this sort of hacks. It seems more like a job for the media player. madVR only renders video within a DirectShow graph, nothing else. I don't have the resources to do more than that.
Originally Posted by Eventidal
If the upscaling is superior than what the RC of my Sony Pj is capable of, it is a buy. If I understand correctly, it will be 8k ready in the future.
It should be 8k ready (probably including 1080->8K and 4K->8K neural network upscaling, although I haven't tested that yet) out of the box - provided your TV has an up-to-date DisplayPort input.
Originally Posted by LJG
What is HSTM?
What Mori said. Or in simple words: It's sort of a contrast enhancer (which works by analyzing the histogram of each frame) - but it has limiters in place to not violate director's intent. Basically it enhances contrast, but it doesn't go beyond the contrast you would get on a true 10,000nits display. "HSTM" is the technical term. The Envy name for this new algorithm will probably be "Contrast Recovery". Of course, this one is patent pending, as well...
Originally Posted by chasiliff
Would it be possible for MadVR to port their dynamic tone mapping to the Nvidia Shield TV? I would be happy to pay for the software if they could do that.
Not enough processing power. At least not for the full blown algorithms. Maybe a very very dumbed down version of the tone mapping could run on the latest Shield, I've no idea.
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM
Im curious as well. And why not release a DTM only box?
Any box that can run the full blown DTM algos smoothly automatically also has enough processing power to do upscaling etc. It might be possible to do a lower spec box which runs a slightly dumbed down version of the DTM algos. But I'm not sure how much cost that would really save. Sure, the GPU could be cheaper, but most other parts, especially the very expensive HDMI HDCP input port, would still stay the same.
Originally Posted by Tom Bley
Are these units (the base model & pro model) scheduled to be released by the end of this year?
That's the plan, although time is flying like crazy. Supply might be limited at first, which means it might be sort of a soft launch, with only the earliest adopters getting units this year, and the remaining orders being fulfilled very early next year. But we'll see how it goes.
Since we'll build these units manually (at least in the beginning), it's not like we have to build a factory first or an assembly line, or anything fancy like that. So the only things holding us back are things like getting the legal stuff cleared, like HDCP, CE certification etc. And some seemingly simplistic problems to solve, e.g. how to prevent the Nvidia GPU from damaging the mainboard during shipping etc. See here for a sarcastic - but sadly somewhat true - view on software (and product) development:
Originally Posted by bjorg
Good question. I submitted a form to indicate I was interested, but never heard back. Then again, maybe under "Equipment" I shouldn't have listed Pioneer Laserdisc player
Haha! I don't think the Laserdisc player played a role there. I'm sure Ric will get back to you soon(ish). Sorry for the lack of reply so far...