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post #421 of 2176 Old 10-26-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Briefcase View Post

- Xbox One X => IN0 (vertex2)
- TX0 (vertex2) => ARC-in TV (HDMI2, Panasonic TX-55GZW954 - speaker mode: home theatre)
- AUD out (vertex2) => Sounbar IN (HDMI1, Samsung HW-Q90R)

Vertex2 is configured as follows: FW: 0.36

- EDID: Copy TX0 (soundbar supports all sound formats that TV supports so I figured this would be easiest for my usecase. Makes sense?)
- SCALER: No scaling

- HDR/DV: left all default
- OSD: Ticked all the 'OSD INFO FLAGS' and hit SEND OSD VALUES
- CEC/EARC: Enable CEC, CEC Type: 0x05 Audio Processor [ARC/EARC], checked 'Enable DD+/ATMOS over ARC' (I figured this way ATMOS sound generated on the TV [e.g. some app on tv], will still be sent to soundbar (be it compressed but that is OK since there is no eARC support from TV)). After setting I rebooted the vertex2 by unplugging the power.
- CONFIG: Mute TX0 audio such that TV isnt passing back the audio over ARC to AUD output on vertex thus reducing audio quality. Does this make sense?

The above setup works, Xbox recognized Dolby Vision capable TV and when watching netflix from xbox it shows 'Dolby Vision' when i press info button on panasonic tv remote! Audio to soundbar shows Dolby Atmos which is great too! Exactly as I wanted!

I have a few questions based on the setup above
- When I connect the soundbar directly to the TV (HDMI2, ARC input) and then switch off the TV with its remote, the soundbar also turns off; similarly when the TV is on with its remote. Is there a way to mimic this behavior with the vertex in the middle? I did not find any additional settings for this (I assume this is CEC related)
- When I switch to watch TV using DVB-C and then back to HDMI2 on the TV, the audio sometimes is lost from the xbox (connected on IN0). I assume this is related to what is described on the eARC tab on the vertex 'ARC mode default switching for AUDIO OUT between TV ARC and input HDMI Some TV's won't release ARC line when watching input HDMI, these settings can override'. Now i don't want to strictly to any mode, ARC or HDMI, I want it to switch based on what input I select on the TV (I hope this makes sense); so ARC when i am watching TV via DVB-C and HDMI when I am using my Xbox. Is this possible? Currently I can make it work by (if it happens) by once again switching inputs on TV (from TV mode to HDMI2) and then the audio from the xbox works. WOuld be nice if this works all the time.

- Funnily enough 'EDID TX0' shows as 'Panasonic-TV: 4K60 444 HDR+ BT2020', i would have expected this to also show DV since DV clearly works as described above :-) Am i mistaken? Also the xbox sees that DV is enabled in its diagnostics. The furry shows '4K59.934 422 BT2020 12b DV 593MHz 2.2' as VIDEO TX0 on INFO page, also indicating that DV works well :-)

Furthermore I have some feedback on the super handy webserver support:
- With the 'Copy TX0' option it would be nice to show the EDID of that source next to it (such that you know what is being copied at that time or can easily check later what the current value is). Similarly with 'Copy TX1' although I dont use that at the moment. I suspect this is actually listed on the INFO page under 'EDID TX0' but it is nice to not have to switch tabs.
- On the INFO page, AUDIO OUT shows as 'HBR bitstream' while playing dolby atmos. Would be nice if it could indicate which type of HBR stream is sent (even though the vertex2 itself always leaves it intact)

- Would be nice to add authentication and HTTPS (such that passwords are not sent clear text)

Hope this feedback is helpful. Thanks once more for such an amazing product!

Thank you for your kind words and the detailed post.


I'll try to answer the questions and comments a bit:


First of all, regarding EDID mode, you said you used Copy TX0 which will make 1:1 copy of your display EDID and then you wrote that you muted sound going to TV. so why using TV max sound capabilities when you could use soundbar max sound capabilities since you are muting audio to TV anyway.
I would use AUTOMIX with AUDIO OUT flag checked (and nothing else checked), that will take your display EDID for all video parts but your soundbar EDID for all audio part, ensuring you get the best video for your TV and the best audio for your soundbar. Now of course if you don't play content that make use of soundbar max capabilities (or if soundbar doesn't exceed much what tv can do) then it makes less sense.


If you want soundbar to be part of CEC network and respond to CEC commands, then its output must be connected to TV (or to one Vertex2 input), that's how CEC works, it cannot travel from an output to an other, it is always from TV (root) to downstream device.


I don't think we can do much about the situation where you have sometime no sound when switching from TV channel to TV input, we worked extensively on ARC/eARC and I believe that its pretty solid, especially when Sony TV ARC now works perfectly. What you describe here could be related to a few others parameters, in particular options like fast switching, quick/instant start, etc.. that could alter some timing. so I would first try some hdmi input options from the TV. In case you want us to look at it, please export config when no sound and then once again when you have sound after switching input again.
It is also important to ensure that you restarted TV after doing settings, especially for ARC/CEC. An other option to solve this is to use universal remote that could force ARC or HDMI using IR code at the same time it send IR codes to switch from TV channel to TV input.


EDID description of equipment connected is truncated to fit into OLED display, yet prolly we can add more details in a defined section, for the moment we decided to show HDR if HDR10 support, HDR+ if HDR10+ support and DV if DV support, if TV supports both HDR10+ and DV, HDR10+ will be presented first (while on earlier fw, you would have seen DV only)

Regarding your suggestions on webserver:


1) Yes adding some details for TX0 and TX1 in EDID section could avoid having to check INFO section first. so I can talk to devs for that, yet they will add such convenience additions when they have time, not as priority. so a bit of patience required.
2) We cannot decode sound, so we don't know what it is in details, all we can do is report what AUDIO infoframe that travels with the sound is telling us, and that is pretty basic: If it's LPCM, we have details, if it's bitstream then we only know that it's bitstream and same for HBR bitstream, we cannot tell anything more than HBR bitstream since we cannot decode it to find out what exactly it is.
3) not sure which password you refer to ? or you mean you would like to have a password ? at the moment we took the easiest/straight forward way to ensure it works with as much web browser devices than possible.
I'm not sure if having HTTPS on a LAN makes much sense or add anything concrete, please tell me if I'm missing something or if there is a use case where this could be needed.
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Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #422 of 2176 Old 10-26-2019, 11:18 PM
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Seems I've found an issue with my Vertex2:

FW .36

LG C9 --> Vertex2 --> NAD 758 V3

If I connect my C9 directly to the NAD and use ARC I can play 2 files (one Dolby and 1 DTS) back and forth and the receiver will switch audio modes correctly. The problem is when the C9 (when connected to the Vertex2) is either in ARC or eARC mode only the first type of file will play and the second is just silent and the receiver never switches to the correct codec for decoding. This also happens between any 2 different Dolby formats. It's as if they receiver doesn't get a signal/header that the codec has switched. Changing the input on the receiver to a different input and back "fixes" this to whatever is playing but then it won't have sound for the secondary file or input.

Again this works perfectly if I take the Vertex2 out of the chain but then I can't do eARC. This also happens on passthrough from other HDMI inputs... for example I have XBOX ONE X on HDMI0 (usually outputing Atmos) and my Dish Hopper on HDMI1 (usually outputting Dolby Digital 5.1) and if I switch between the 2 using the Vertex2 web interface the receiver will not "switch" it's codec unless I, again, switch between 2 inputs on the receiver.

Any ideas?

Last edited by Employee3; 10-26-2019 at 11:46 PM.
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post #423 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Employee3 View Post
Seems I've found an issue with my Vertex2:

FW .36

LG C9 --> Vertex2 --> NAD 758 V3

If I connect my C9 directly to the NAD and use ARC I can play 2 files (one Dolby and 1 DTS) back and forth and the receiver will switch audio modes correctly. The problem is when the C9 (when connected to the Vertex2) is either in ARC or eARC mode only the first type of file will play and the second is just silent and the receiver never switches to the correct codec for decoding. This also happens between any 2 different Dolby formats. It's as if they receiver doesn't get a signal/header that the codec has switched. Changing the input on the receiver to a different input and back "fixes" this to whatever is playing but then it won't have sound for the secondary file or input.

Again this works perfectly if I take the Vertex2 out of the chain but then I can't do eARC. This also happens on passthrough from other HDMI inputs... for example I have XBOX ONE X on HDMI0 (usually outputing Atmos) and my Dish Hopper on HDMI1 (usually outputting Dolby Digital 5.1) and if I switch between the 2 using the Vertex2 web interface the receiver will not "switch" it's codec unless I, again, switch between 2 inputs on the receiver.

Any ideas?


I'm not sure this is a bug, may be just a different audio descriptor, please send config export when you have issue (in both ARC and eARC , so 2 config please) and then when it works once you have switched input on receiver (so again 2 config, one for ARC , one for eARC), and please check what happen if you change input on TV like TV MODE > HDMI INPUT MODE > TV MODE, does it fix it as well ?


When you use Vertex2, is the NAD output connected to TV ?
when you try Vertex2 to TV and then NAD to TV, did you fully restart TV between each try ?

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 10-27-2019 at 07:21 AM.
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post #424 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 07:38 AM
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[BREAKTHROUGH]


We managed to extract full audio from a VRR signal and forward it to any AVR input > World First !


This cannot be implemented on any current unit, but some special VRR edition of current hardware might be possible.


Does this mean there will be a hardware revision of the Vertex2 and those interested in purchasing one should hold off until then?



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Always !

How are off is your HDMI 2.1 hardware?
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post #425 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 07:50 AM
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Does this mean there will be a hardware revision of the Vertex2 and those interested in purchasing one should hold off until then?

How are off is your HDMI 2.1 hardware?

We don't have enough demand for a VRR audio extraction hardware at the moment, so nothing planned until there is enough demand.
If there is never enough demand then such feature will only be available on our next HDMI2.1 design.


Speaking of HDMI2.1 we have a few devices in the work, first will be a 8K EDID manager that should arrive beginning 2020 and for a complete device like Vertex2/Diva for HDMI2.1 up to 1500MHz/48Gbps without compression, that will be end of 2020.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #426 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 08:00 AM
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We don't have enough demand for a VRR audio extraction hardware at the moment, so nothing planned until there is enough demand.
If there is never enough demand then such feature will only be available on our next HDMI2.1 design.


Speaking of HDMI2.1 we have a few devices in the work, first will be a 8K EDID manager that should arrive beginning 2020 and for a complete device like Vertex2/Diva for HDMI2.1 up to 1500MHz/48Gbps without compression, that will be end of 2020.

Thanks for the quick reply.


I might just hold out for the Vertex3 in that case as I am sure pre-orders will be up a few months before release anyway. Will it have additional HDMI ins/outs or any other new features?
PS: Please insure a complete end-to-end RGB 4:4:4 processing path for up/down scaling for the next gen Vertex!
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post #427 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 09:38 AM
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Thank you for your kind words and the detailed post.


I'll try to answer the questions and comments a bit:


First of all, regarding EDID mode, you said you used Copy TX0 which will make 1:1 copy of your display EDID and then you wrote that you muted sound going to TV. so why using TV max sound capabilities when you could use soundbar max sound capabilities since you are muting audio to TV anyway.
I would use AUTOMIX with AUDIO OUT flag checked (and nothing else checked), that will take your display EDID for all video parts but your soundbar EDID for all audio part, ensuring you get the best video for your TV and the best audio for your soundbar. Now of course if you don't play content that make use of soundbar max capabilities (or if soundbar doesn't exceed much what tv can do) then it makes less sense.


If you want soundbar to be part of CEC network and respond to CEC commands, then its output must be connected to TV (or to one Vertex2 input), that's how CEC works, it cannot travel from an output to an other, it is always from TV (root) to downstream device.


I don't think we can do much about the situation where you have sometime no sound when switching from TV channel to TV input, we worked extensively on ARC/eARC and I believe that its pretty solid, especially when Sony TV ARC now works perfectly. What you describe here could be related to a few others parameters, in particular options like fast switching, quick/instant start, etc.. that could alter some timing. so I would first try some hdmi input options from the TV. In case you want us to look at it, please export config when no sound and then once again when you have sound after switching input again.
It is also important to ensure that you restarted TV after doing settings, especially for ARC/CEC. An other option to solve this is to use universal remote that could force ARC or HDMI using IR code at the same time it send IR codes to switch from TV channel to TV input.


EDID description of equipment connected is truncated to fit into OLED display, yet prolly we can add more details in a defined section, for the moment we decided to show HDR if HDR10 support, HDR+ if HDR10+ support and DV if DV support, if TV supports both HDR10+ and DV, HDR10+ will be presented first (while on earlier fw, you would have seen DV only)

Regarding your suggestions on webserver:


1) Yes adding some details for TX0 and TX1 in EDID section could avoid having to check INFO section first. so I can talk to devs for that, yet they will add such convenience additions when they have time, not as priority. so a bit of patience required.
2) We cannot decode sound, so we don't know what it is in details, all we can do is report what AUDIO infoframe that travels with the sound is telling us, and that is pretty basic: If it's LPCM, we have details, if it's bitstream then we only know that it's bitstream and same for HBR bitstream, we cannot tell anything more than HBR bitstream since we cannot decode it to find out what exactly it is.
3) not sure which password you refer to ? or you mean you would like to have a password ? at the moment we took the easiest/straight forward way to ensure it works with as much web browser devices than possible.
I'm not sure if having HTTPS on a LAN makes much sense or add anything concrete, please tell me if I'm missing something or if there is a use case where this could be needed.

Thanks for your very speedy reply!


> First of all, regarding EDID mode, you said you used Copy TX0 which will make 1:1 copy of your display EDID and then you wrote that you muted sound going to TV. so why using TV max sound capabilities when you could use soundbar max sound capabilities since you are muting audio to TV anyway.
I would use AUTOMIX with AUDIO OUT flag checked (and nothing else checked), that will take your display EDID for all video parts but your soundbar EDID for all audio part, ensuring you get the best video for your TV and the best audio for your soundbar. Now of course if you don't play content that make use of soundbar max capabilities (or if soundbar doesn't exceed much what tv can do) then it makes less sense.



This makes perfect sense, I figured this from the manual as well but was blown away by the amount of checkboxes/options for AUTOMIX and decided to keep that for later. WIth your help though I have now configured it as EDID: AUTOMIX, algo: Max Audio, Max Video. only selected: AUDIO OUT, nothing else selected/checked. Thanks!




> If you want soundbar to be part of CEC network and respond to CEC commands, then its output must be connected to TV (or to one Vertex2 input), that's how CEC works, it cannot travel from an output to an other, it is always from TV (root) to downstream device.


Understood. Would you suggest to then add one HDMI cable from 'SOUNDBAR OUT' to 'VERTEX2 (IN1)', making the config as follows:

XBOX One X => Vertex2 (IN0)
Soundbar In1 (HDMI1) => Vertex2 (AUDIO OUT)
Soundbar OUT => Vertex2 (IN1) [just to support SEC commands from TV]
TV (HDMI2, ARC) => Vertex2 (TX0)


This feels weird as there is an cycle now. If i would connect Soundbar OUT to the TV then it too complicates the setup (then i have the soundbar connect twice, once via Vertex2, once directly). I am probably better off using a universal remote (e.g. logitech harmony) and then forget about CEC commands. Makes sense?




> I don't think we can do much about the situation where you have sometime no sound when switching from TV channel to TV input, we worked extensively on ARC/eARC and I believe that its pretty solid, especially when Sony TV ARC now works perfectly. What you describe here could be related to a few others parameters, in particular options like fast switching, quick/instant start, etc.. that could alter some timing. so I would first try some hdmi input options from the TV. In case you want us to look at it, please export config when no sound and then once again when you have sound after switching input again.
It is also important to ensure that you restarted TV after doing settings, especially for ARC/CEC. An other option to solve this is to use universal remote that could force ARC or HDMI using IR code at the same time it send IR codes to switch from TV channel to TV input.


Thanks, I now narrowed it down to the following [this is reproducable]:
0. During all of the below the vertex is left running

1. Turn on xbox and soundbar, without turning on TV, wait a bit for xbox to generate signal (20 secs to be safe). On the vertex IN0 is selected as source (which is the xbox)

2. Turn on TV [the tv should boot to display HDMI2 input, which is my ARC port]. There is no sound now.
3. Switch ANY input on the TV (i can do from HDMI2 to tv mode and back, or say HDMI2 to HDMI1 and back to HDMI2). After being back on HDMI2 there is audio again from xbox on my soundbar.


I diffed config files from step 1. with step 2. Here are the results:

step1 (no sound):
"AUD0": " HBR bitstream (ARC)"
"AUDOUT": "from TX0 using ARC",
"arcst": "on",



step2 (sound):
"AUD0": " HBR bitstream",
"AUDOUT": "HBR bitstream",

"arcst": "off",


Obviously the time field is also different but that probably doesnt matter. It looks like turning the tv on always puts the vertex audio source to ARC, even if the source selected on the TV does not require ARC (TV boots to HDMI2 which is where the Vertex2 is connected). Is this desired behavior?




> EDID description of equipment connected is truncated to fit into OLED display, yet prolly we can add more details in a defined section, for the moment we decided to show HDR if HDR10 support, HDR+ if HDR10+ support and DV if DV support, if TV supports both HDR10+ and DV, HDR10+ will be presented first (while on earlier fw, you would have seen DV only)


Would be very nice if the webinterface could show the full EDID info if possible :-)




> 1) Yes adding some details for TX0 and TX1 in EDID section could avoid having to check INFO section first. so I can talk to devs for that, yet they will add such convenience additions when they have time, not as priority. so a bit of patience required.


Great, not high prio at all just nice to have :-)



> 2) We cannot decode sound, so we don't know what it is in details, all we can do is report what AUDIO infoframe that travels with the sound is telling us, and that is pretty basic: If it's LPCM, we have details, if it's bitstream then we only know that it's bitstream and same for HBR bitstream, we cannot tell anything more than HBR bitstream since we cannot decode it to find out what exactly it is.


Nice explanation, makes sense. Thanks!



> 3) not sure which password you refer to ? or you mean you would like to have a password ? at the moment we took the easiest/straight forward way to ensure it works with as much web browser devices than possible.
I'm not sure if having HTTPS on a LAN makes much sense or add anything concrete, please tell me if I'm missing something or if there is a use case where this could be needed.


The password (login info) that would be added to the device to make it more secure. I referenced HTTPS support in that scenario because otherwise the password would be sent in plain text to the device. It is not super important since the vertex2 will be sitting on local networks very likely, it just seems to become a best practice these days to also secure 'local lan only devices'. I do understand that there are many higher prio items probably, I just wanted to give it as a bit of feedback :-)


Thanks!
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post #428 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Briefcase View Post
Would you suggest to then add one HDMI cable from 'SOUNDBAR OUT' to 'VERTEX2 (IN1)', making the config as follows:

XBOX One X => Vertex2 (IN0)
Soundbar In1 (HDMI1) => Vertex2 (AUDIO OUT)
Soundbar OUT => Vertex2 (IN1) [just to support SEC commands from TV]
TV (HDMI2, ARC) => Vertex2 (TX0)



This feels weird as there is an cycle now. If i would connect Soundbar OUT to the TV then it too complicates the setup (then i have the soundbar connect twice, once via Vertex2, once directly). I am probably better off using a universal remote (e.g. logitech harmony) and then forget about CEC commands. Makes sense?
Yes it is weird, for me too, but proven working since then soundbar is still in the CEC chain from TV root (TX0)
Sounbar out to TV might create issue as TV will see 2 audio system w/arc if you also use Vertex2 for ARC/eARC and that can create more problems.
Yes universal remote is popular way of handling such situation as when you press one button you can send various IR codes to various devices to ensure they are all set as you want for each button press.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Briefcase View Post
> I don't think we can do much about the situation where you have sometime no sound when switching from TV channel to TV input, we worked extensively on ARC/eARC and I believe that its pretty solid, especially when Sony TV ARC now works perfectly. What you describe here could be related to a few others parameters, in particular options like fast switching, quick/instant start, etc.. that could alter some timing. so I would first try some hdmi input options from the TV. In case you want us to look at it, please export config when no sound and then once again when you have sound after switching input again.
It is also important to ensure that you restarted TV after doing settings, especially for ARC/CEC. An other option to solve this is to use universal remote that could force ARC or HDMI using IR code at the same time it send IR codes to switch from TV channel to TV input.


Thanks, I now narrowed it down to the following [this is reproducable]:
0. During all of the below the vertex is left running

1. Turn on xbox and soundbar, without turning on TV, wait a bit for xbox to generate signal (20 secs to be safe). On the vertex IN0 is selected as source (which is the xbox)

2. Turn on TV [the tv should boot to display HDMI2 input, which is my ARC port]. There is no sound now.
3. Switch ANY input on the TV (i can do from HDMI2 to tv mode and back, or say HDMI2 to HDMI1 and back to HDMI2). After being back on HDMI2 there is audio again from xbox on my soundbar.


I diffed config files from step 1. with step 2. Here are the results:

step1 (no sound):
"AUD0": " HBR bitstream (ARC)"
"AUDOUT": "from TX0 using ARC",
"arcst": "on",



step2 (sound):
"AUD0": " HBR bitstream",
"AUDOUT": "HBR bitstream",

"arcst": "off",


Obviously the time field is also different but that probably doesnt matter. It looks like turning the tv on always puts the vertex audio source to ARC, even if the source selected on the TV does not require ARC (TV boots to HDMI2 which is where the Vertex2 is connected). Is this desired behavior?

No I don't think it's expected behavior, but I think one possible explanation is that since a tv will negotiate ARC at startup, it's possible that it remains active afterwards, can you tell me what happens when you always start by turning TV ON first, do you have similar issue ?
Also for the sake of clarity, can you confirm that above step1 and step2 config you mention were in reality config export done at step2 and 3 ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Briefcase View Post

The password (login info) that would be added to the device to make it more secure. I referenced HTTPS support in that scenario because otherwise the password would be sent in plain text to the device. It is not super important since the vertex2 will be sitting on local networks very likely, it just seems to become a best practice these days to also secure 'local lan only devices'. I do understand that there are many higher prio items probably, I just wanted to give it as a bit of feedback :-)

Ok i'll forward to devs.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 10-27-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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post #429 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Yes it is weird, for me too, but proven working since then soundbar is still in the CEC chain from TV root (TX0)
Sounbar out to TV might create issue as TV will see 2 audio system w/arc if you also use Vertex2 for ARC/eARC and that can create more problems.
Yes universal remote is popular way of handling such situation as when you press one button you can send various IR codes to various devices to ensure they are all set as you want for each button press.





No I don't think it's expected behavior, but I think one possible explanation is that since a tv will negotiate ARC at startup, it's possible that it remains active afterwards, can you tell me what happens when you always start by turning TV ON first, do you have similar issue ?
Also for the sake of clarity, can you confirm that above step1 and step2 config you mention were in reality config export done at step2 and 3 ?






Ok i'll forward to devs.

Thanks for your time :-)


> Yes it is weird, for me too, but proven working since then soundbar is still in the CEC chain from TV root (TX0)
Sounbar out to TV might create issue as TV will see 2 audio system w/arc if you also use Vertex2 for ARC/eARC and that can create more problems.
Yes universal remote is popular way of handling such situation as when you press one button you can send various IR codes to various devices to ensure they are all set as you want for each button press.


I will go for the universal remote, it has many other benefits anyway :-) Thanks for your explanation and thoughts.




> No I don't think it's expected behavior, but I think one possible explanation is that since a tv will negotiate ARC at startup, it's possible that it remains active afterwards, can you tell me what happens when you always start by turning TV ON first, do you have similar issue ?
Also for the sake of clarity, can you confirm that above step1 and step2 config you mention were in reality config export done at step2 and 3 ?


That sounds very plausible.


This is what happens when I turn TV on first:


- 0. vertex2 is on during all steps below
- 1. I turn on TV (Panasonic TX-55GZW954), it defaults to input HDMI2 (this is the ARC port of the TV connected to the vertex TX0), screen is obviously black
- 2. I turn on soundbar
- 3. I turn on Xbox
- 4. There is NO sound from Xbox playing on the soundbar (silence)

- 5. Using TV remote I switch inputs from HDMI1 to HDMI2 and then back to HDMI3
- 6. Now there is sound from the xbox playing on the soundbar

- 7. When i switch inputs on TV again using its remote, e.g. to TV channel 5 i have sound from the soundbar. When i then switch back to HDMI2 i have sound on the soundbar from the xbox again


I once again exported the config files using vertex webserver at point 4 and at point 6 and compared them using a compare tool. The differences are the same as in the previous scenario i posted:

step4 (no sound):
"AUD0": " HBR bitstream (ARC)"
"AUDOUT": "from TX0 using ARC",
"arcst": "on",


step6 (sound):
"AUD0": " HBR bitstream",
"AUDOUT": "HBR bitstream",
"arcst": "off",


This sounds like a bug/unexpected behavior like you said. Hope this helps.



> Ok i'll forward to devs.
Great, thanks :-)
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post #430 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 12:34 PM
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It looks like i cannot edit my post above. There is an error in step 5. It should be "
- 5. Using TV remote I switch inputs from HDMI2 to HDMI1 and then back to HDMI2"


Sorry for that
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post #431 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Briefcase View Post
It looks like i cannot edit my post above. There is an error in step 5. It should be "
- 5. Using TV remote I switch inputs from HDMI2 to HDMI1 and then back to HDMI2"


Sorry for that
Please see if TV have option for instant switching, instant start, quick start, etc... for hdmi, and try turning it off.

the root cause is that no matter what the situation is, TV request ARC and vertex2 complies and that’s it
Then hbr bitatream coming to tv tries to get routed back and of course won’t work via arc
Means user is expecting that hdmi input sound is played but tv decided otherwise
Then once you make a manual input selection once then tv and vertex2 are back in sync and issue disappears
Manual input selection is either selecting source using tv remote via cec or choosing vertex2 input
Issue is present only if the hdmi input is hbr bitstream.
Because all other can be routed back via arc then customer doesn’t see any issues even in startup
For this reason the webserver options for arc routing were created.
You can force the input audio even if tv requested arc
But none of that is very convenient because then audio is stuck to hdmi input always
So those options should really come out of webserver altogether at some point. And user must always choose once what he is watching in powerup if using arc
Earc does not have the issue except for lpcm multichannel in Lg since lg doesn’t work for routing it back

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post #432 of 2176 Old 10-27-2019, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I'm not sure this is a bug, may be just a different audio descriptor, please send config export when you have issue (in both ARC and eARC , so 2 config please) and then when it works once you have switched input on receiver (so again 2 config, one for ARC , one for eARC), and please check what happen if you change input on TV like TV MODE > HDMI INPUT MODE > TV MODE, does it fix it as well ?


When you use Vertex2, is the NAD output connected to TV ?
when you try Vertex2 to TV and then NAD to TV, did you fully restart TV between each try ?

TV MODE > HDMI INPUT MODE > TV MODE does not fix the issue. Only way I've found to "fix" the issue is to switch either the receiver input or on the Vertex2 to change between auto and manual arc or earc.

When you use Vertex2, is the NAD output connected to TV ? Yes, I have it connected to HDMI1 but this happens even with disconnected
when you try Vertex2 to TV and then NAD to TV, did you fully restart TV between each try ? I have turned the TV off and on (quick start on the TV is turned off
Attached Files
File Type: txt VERTEX2-CONFIG-10_28_2019_EARC_PostReceiverSwitch.txt (11.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: txt VERTEX2-CONFIG-10_28_2019_EARC.txt (11.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: txt VERTEX2-CONFIG-10_28_2019_ARC_PostReceiverSwitch.txt (11.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: txt VERTEX2-CONFIG-10_28_2019_ARC.txt (11.1 KB, 3 views)
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Originally Posted by Employee3 View Post
TV MODE > HDMI INPUT MODE > TV MODE does not fix the issue. Only way I've found to "fix" the issue is to switch either the receiver input or on the Vertex2 to change between auto and manual arc or earc.

When you use Vertex2, is the NAD output connected to TV ? Yes, I have it connected to HDMI1 but this happens even with disconnected
when you try Vertex2 to TV and then NAD to TV, did you fully restart TV between each try ? I have turned the TV off and on (quick start on the TV is turned off


Instead of switching receiver input or changing between auto and manual, please try the following when you have no sound situation:


Unplug and replug AUDIO OUT, does it fix it ?

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post #434 of 2176 Old 10-28-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Please see if TV have option for instant switching, instant start, quick start, etc... for hdmi, and try turning it off.

the root cause is that no matter what the situation is, TV request ARC and vertex2 complies and that’s it
Then hbr bitatream coming to tv tries to get routed back and of course won’t work via arc
Means user is expecting that hdmi input sound is played but tv decided otherwise
Then once you make a manual input selection once then tv and vertex2 are back in sync and issue disappears
Manual input selection is either selecting source using tv remote via cec or choosing vertex2 input
Issue is present only if the hdmi input is hbr bitstream.
Because all other can be routed back via arc then customer doesn’t see any issues even in startup
For this reason the webserver options for arc routing were created.
You can force the input audio even if tv requested arc
But none of that is very convenient because then audio is stuck to hdmi input always
So those options should really come out of webserver altogether at some point. And user must always choose once what he is watching in powerup if using arc
Earc does not have the issue except for lpcm multichannel in Lg since lg doesn’t work for routing it back

Thanks for your reply.
I was playing around trying to make the tv not request arc when it turns on. Unfortunately I was unable to achieve this; i was looking for options you mentioned in the manual 'instant switching, instant start, quick start, etc...' related to HDMI inputs but couldn't find any. To be sure, and if you don't mind, (you seem to be much more of an expert than I am) here is the manual of my tv: https2://tda.panasonic-europe-service.com/docs/2z5db73fd4z3z4028bz656ez706466z25z48c2c7cf861b1cfa d2624fbef80ba923b9ec102d/tsn3/data/ALL/TX65GZC2004/OI/975806/TQB0E2874ENG-E.pdf [please remove the 2 in https2; i am not allowed to post links]


The closest I got was by disabling 'VIERA Link', but this resulted in ARC being disabled completely - hence the TV not requesting arc while booting. The two individual options 'power on link' and 'power off link' had no effect. Then I realized that maybe it was related to me muting audio for TX0 in vertex2 config tab: if the tv would receive audio signal from TX0 while turning on, maybe it wouldn't capture/request ARC for itself. So I turned that setting off but unfortunately, that also didn't have an effect: yes, now i can hear audio but it is still going over ARC when i turn the tv on, the route is then xbox=>IN0=>TX0=>TV=>ARC=>TX0=>AUD0 which doesn't make sense. In case of dolby atmos that would even mean reduced audio quality (since ARC cannot sent uncompressed dolby atmos).


If you could have a look at the settings that would be very welcome!




The best alternative now (when I receive my Harmony) would probably be to sent 'vertex2_arcforcearc: NEC 0x96 0x0d' to the vertex while watching TV, while sending 'vertex2_arcforcehdmi: NEC 0x96 0x0e' when watching xbox, right? Alternatively (and I think that is what you suggest - since these two commands might disappear from the webserver/vertex2) is to turn on tv and then always toggle inputs (hdmi2=>tv=>hdmi2 or tv=>hdmi2=>tv) based on wanting to watch an input from vertex (xbox) or watch tv. What do you think?

Last edited by Briefcase; 10-28-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Instead of switching receiver input or changing between auto and manual, please try the following when you have no sound situation:


Unplug and replug AUDIO OUT, does it fix it ?
This actually did fix it. Scenario I tested was a usb file playing DTS, went to Vudu and played a movie with Dolby Digital +, no sound - receiver still in "DTS" mode. Unplugged the hdmi from audio out on the Vertex2, waited 5 seconds then plugged it in and the receiver set to Dolby Digital+ and started playing. This was in eARC mode with no other HDMI's plugged in the Vertex2.
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post #436 of 2176 Old 10-28-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Briefcase View Post
Thanks for your reply.
I was playing around trying to make the tv not request arc when it turns on. Unfortunately I was unable to achieve this; i was looking for options you mentioned in the manual 'instant switching, instant start, quick start, etc...' related to HDMI inputs but couldn't find any. To be sure, and if you don't mind, (you seem to be much more of an expert than I am) here is the manual of my tv: https2://tda.panasonic-europe-service.com/docs/2z5db73fd4z3z4028bz656ez706466z25z48c2c7cf861b1cfa d2624fbef80ba923b9ec102d/tsn3/data/ALL/TX65GZC2004/OI/975806/TQB0E2874ENG-E.pdf [please remove the 2 in https2; i am not allowed to post links]


The closest I got was by disabling 'VIERA Link', but this resulted in ARC being disabled completely - hence the TV not requesting arc while booting. The two individual options 'power on link' and 'power off link' had no effect. Then I realized that maybe it was related to me muting audio for TX0 in vertex2 config tab: if the tv would receive audio signal from TX0 while turning on, maybe it wouldn't capture/request ARC for itself. So I turned that setting off but unfortunately, that also didn't have an effect: yes, now i can hear audio but it is still going over ARC when i turn the tv on, the route is then xbox=>IN0=>TX0=>TV=>ARC=>TX0=>AUD0 which doesn't make sense. In case of dolby atmos that would even mean reduced audio quality (since ARC cannot sent uncompressed dolby atmos).


If you could have a look at the settings that would be very welcome!




The best alternative now (when I receive my Harmony) would probably be to sent 'vertex2_arcforcearc: NEC 0x96 0x0d' to the vertex while watching TV, while sending 'vertex2_arcforcehdmi: NEC 0x96 0x0e' when watching xbox, right? Alternatively (and I think that is what you suggest - since these two commands might disappear from the webserver/vertex2) is to turn on tv and then always toggle inputs (hdmi2=>tv=>hdmi2 or tv=>hdmi2=>tv) based on wanting to watch an input from vertex (xbox) or watch tv. What do you think?

I think that's all normal. It’s just that tv requests arc whenever it sees a logical address of audio system
Nothing we can do there. If we had configured input audio at that point it will get overridden by tv
What happens is very normal and logical. The entire system cannot know what user is intending to do
Normally all is good because input audio is not hbr
But when hbr then system fails
It does the same thing with an AVR that's why you have to select the input manually when you want to play a source.


Regarding IR codes, I think the only thing you have to do is to switch input at startup once and that's it.

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post #437 of 2176 Old 10-28-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Employee3 View Post
This actually did fix it. Scenario I tested was a usb file playing DTS, went to Vudu and played a movie with Dolby Digital +, no sound - receiver still in "DTS" mode. Unplugged the hdmi from audio out on the Vertex2, waited 5 seconds then plugged it in and the receiver set to Dolby Digital+ and started playing. This was in eARC mode with no other HDMI's plugged in the Vertex2.
Ok as we thought, we will give you a test fw shortly.
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post #438 of 2176 Old 10-29-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I think that's all normal. It’s just that tv requests arc whenever it sees a logical address of audio system
Nothing we can do there. If we had configured input audio at that point it will get overridden by tv
What happens is very normal and logical. The entire system cannot know what user is intending to do
Normally all is good because input audio is not hbr
But when hbr then system fails
It does the same thing with an AVR that's why you have to select the input manually when you want to play a source.


Regarding IR codes, I think the only thing you have to do is to switch input at startup once and that's it.



Clear! I will just switch inputs once TV is turned on :-) Thanks a lot for all your effort&time!! :-)
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post #439 of 2176 Old 10-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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Cool on the VRR break through. That'll be sweet for gamers.

I have a question. I picked up a vertex 2 and i'm trying to trick my sources into thinking my display is HDR 2020 capable BUT in reality my projector is sdr/2020/DCI-P3 so i want to feed it sdr 2020

So I also recently picked up a panasonic 820 ultra blu-ray player that'll tone map hdr/2020 to sdr/2020

tx0 computer
tx1 820

rx0 projector
rx1 avr


im a little confused on the "HDR IF" tab. What should I have checked on that page?
bump, bottom of page 13 i have pics of the hdr if page. not sure what i should have selected

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post #440 of 2176 Old 10-30-2019, 11:44 AM
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bump, bottom of page 13 i have pics of the hdr if page. not sure what i should have selected
Please elaborate a bit on what you are trying to do, we don't even have your display brand/model here.

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Please elaborate a bit on what you are trying to do, we don't even have your display brand/model here.
Sorry, it's a Epson LS10000. it has a digital cinema mode for DCI-P3 which I believe people adjust to 2020. I'm guessing this is the correct settings to pass wide color gamut or do i have to check/uncheck anything on that page? Should I adjust the luminance stuff or leave that alone?
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post #442 of 2176 Old 10-30-2019, 12:35 PM
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How good is the scaling quality of the Vertex anyway?
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Similar as LG medium range from 2017
Quoted from the Vertex (1) thread. Does the Vertex 2 have similar upscaling or has it been improved? I have a Samsung Q90R 82" and am wondering if I should use the display's upscaling or the Vertex's.
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post #443 of 2176 Old 10-30-2019, 02:57 PM
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Sorry, it's a Epson LS10000. it has a digital cinema mode for DCI-P3 which I believe people adjust to 2020. I'm guessing this is the correct settings to pass wide color gamut or do i have to check/uncheck anything on that page? Should I adjust the luminance stuff or leave that alone?
This is a Vertex1 screenshot, so please use Vertex1 thread to ask about it.
There is nothing to do there if you are sending BT2020 SDR.




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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
Quoted from the Vertex (1) thread. Does the Vertex 2 have similar upscaling or has it been improved? I have a Samsung Q90R 82" and am wondering if I should use the display's upscaling or the Vertex's.
I hope for you that Samsung have higher upscaling capabilities, please compare and select the best results.

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post #444 of 2176 Old 10-31-2019, 06:25 AM
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I hope for you that Samsung have higher upscaling capabilities, please compare and select the best results.
I tested it and the Vertex 2 actually seems to upscale better than the Samsung Q90R. The Q90R results in lots of Chroma Upsampling Errors whereas the Vertex 2 looks smooth (no jagged lines).
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post #445 of 2176 Old 10-31-2019, 07:36 AM
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I tested it and the Vertex 2 actually seems to upscale better than the Samsung Q90R. The Q90R results in lots of Chroma Upsampling Errors whereas the Vertex 2 looks smooth (no jagged lines).
Amazing results, thanx for the feedback.

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post #446 of 2176 Old 11-03-2019, 12:28 PM
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I have setup the OSD mask and it works perfectly via the browser interface.

The remote codes do not appear to be working via the unit sensor nor via the IR extension cable.

It appears that the Mask on and Mask Off in the Vertex2 manual are same:

vertex2_osdmaskoff: NEC 0x78 0x87
0000 006e 0000 0022 0156 00ab 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 1d0b

vertex2_osdmaskon: NEC 0x78 0x86
0000 006e 0000 0022 0156 00ab 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015

What should these code be?

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post #447 of 2176 Old 11-04-2019, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I have setup the OSD mask and it works perfectly via the browser interface.

The remote codes do not appear to be working via the unit sensor nor via the IR extension cable.

It appears that the Mask on and Mask Off in the Vertex2 manual are same:

vertex2_osdmaskoff: NEC 0x78 0x87
0000 006e 0000 0022 0156 00ab 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 1d0b

vertex2_osdmaskon: NEC 0x78 0x86
0000 006e 0000 0022 0156 00ab 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 003f 0015 0015 0015

What should these code be?

- Rich


Sorry but those 2 codes are not the same.
Please use IR code list that come as a TXT file with the firmware package that match the firmware version you are currently running, so if you are on FW0.36, download FW0.36 package, and use the IR codes list TXT file that comes with it.
Try simple code like reboot or switch input to make sure IR codes work before trying just those 2, so you know IR is working first then try those 2.

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post #448 of 2176 Old 11-04-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Sorry but those 2 codes are not the same.
Please use IR code list that come as a TXT file with the firmware package that match the firmware version you are currently running, so if you are on FW0.36, download FW0.36 package, and use the IR codes list TXT file that comes with it.
Try simple code like reboot or switch input to make sure IR codes work before trying just those 2, so you know IR is working first then try those 2.
Thanks. I got it working with the .36 codes.

- Rich

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post #449 of 2176 Old 11-08-2019, 12:06 AM
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Ok as we thought, we will give you a test fw shortly.
Just checking in to see if there's a test fw available.

Thanks,

Eric
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post #450 of 2176 Old 11-08-2019, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Employee3 View Post
Just checking in to see if there's a test fw available.

Thanks,

Eric
Yes please be patient, we have test fw for you coming, the guys just finish some currents tasks that will be on next fw and then will make a test fw derivate from it with some special addition for you to confirm if it helps for your NAD.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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