Look, if you use matrix, then you have to make sure you select the right input, if you want to turn on the unit and have the unit switch to active input, then you need to use autoswitch.
If you are sure you are sending the right command at the right time and have black screen, then next time you see it, just go to gefen and remove/reconnect power from it and tell us what happens.


I just spent 3H trying to reproduce any of that, could not, picture came on perfectly all the time, so there is something in your setup and we have to find out what exactly is making issue cause as long as we cannot reproduce it, then we cannot fix it.
Also since you use RS232, then turn OFF CEC on every device in the chain and see if something differs, may be you send manual RS232 commands but CEC switching over rides your instructions

Yes, I am definitely selecting the correct input. I've verified using the web gui that the correct input is routed to the correct output. I do not want auto-switch because I am sending RS232 commands every time I select a different input.

I think I tried what you are asking. The last time it happened, I unplugged the HDbaseT receiver. I also unplugged the HDMI cable at the HDbaseT transmitter.

I really do appreciate all of your effort in helping me. Are you changing inputs using RS232 in your testing or the web gui? I'm almost always using RS232. I think I send the command even if the input is already routed correctly. (ie. every time my home automation system turns on my TV, it will issue the 'input change' command regardless of the current input)

Here is the command:
OK - I'll turn off CEC on my devices. I don't think CEC is overriding my commands because I see the correct input on my TV and AVR so it doesn't look like CEC is changing any inputs.

What is happening when the Vertex2 is rebooted? I would think it would have a similar effect to [ISSUE HOTPLUG]?

When the issue happens, does the unit react to any others RS232 commands ?

I haven't tried changing input with RS232 in my testing, just tested a few sources and a few displays and turned off/on hundreds time in a row to see if I could get something similar but as I said, I had picture perfectly all the time.


Nothing special happens when unit is rebooted, it reads config and set itself up and then proceed as usual, I think if there is something to find, it's not in vertex, it's in a timeout on a particular device in your chain. like if AVR have pass thru, I would turn that off or on to see if it have any impact, etc..


You said issue usually manifest when system is idle for a while and then you try to turn everything on correct ?


May be try adding some delay on the command sending, between TV turns on and sending of the command to Vertex2, may be the command sometimes reach the device in the middle of handshake/sync and it creates issue, i'll try to test that. (just guessing atm)

Yes, the other RS232 commands still work.

Yes, usually, but it happens even if the TV is already on and I switch sources as well.

I've tried leaving the TV on and just changing Vertex2 inputs and I've also tried turning everything on at once. Same result.

Here's a different situation that has also occurred before.

Vertex2 is reporting NO SIGNAL for the source, but yet, somehow, it reports a valid output signal for TX1. This seems impossible or at the very least incorrect reporting?

See this picture:


You see a valid video signal on my TV, and the Vertex2 does report the output signal. However, it shows no signal for the source. Even if I have a bad device in my chain, the Vertex2 is not reporting the source signal correctly.

I can understand what you're saying about a bad HDMI handshake or similar that might be causing problems, but the above picture shouldn't be possible? If I'm seeing an output signal, there MUST be a source signal.

EDIT: Everything worked for an hour and I turned off my system and now I turned it back on and I have a black screen. I'm wondering if once the Vertex2 gets into this "invalid"/mismatch status that the black screen problem occurs. Now that I'm thinking about it, I do remember seeing this output/input mismatch quite often when the black screen problem occurs.

Attached Files

File Type: txt

VERTEX2-CONFIG-7_21_2019.txt (10.0 KB, 7 views)

Please remove HTPC from the inputs and see if you can get anything failing again when HTPC is not in the setup.
Can you confirm everytime you saw the issue, the PC had rebooted prior to it or not ? (means, do you let the PC always ON ?)


The goal is to isolate equipment to find out which one is making issue.

OK - I'll try to run some tests with the HTPC removed.

No, I always turn the HTPC completely off when it's not being used.

Thanks,
John

[QUOTE=HDfury;58289806]Yes you can do how you suggested but not for VRR/ALLM/GSYNC/FREESYNC and whatever variable refresh mode "tech" out there.
Since if you read me correctly such tech only can work from source > display, not device in the middle can support fluctuations or very slightly > killing the purpose of such variable refresh mode.


"Auto Low Latency Mode and Variable Refresh Rate are supported for EDID signaling and source detection." > What you do not understand in this sentence ? EDID signaling ? source detection ?
Our devices are used by studio, content creator and most big companies out there for testing purposes and that sentence is targeted for them. They can test such EDID capability with our devices and that does not mean you can PLAY with it since that's NOT how such tech work.


IF you have eARC TV then good ! all sources with ALLM/VRR/etc.. to eARC TV and then our devices can extract eARC sound and forward to your AVR input... make sure you get used to it because in a year or so that will be the way people use anything, SOURCE > TV > eARC > AVR




HDFury please help. As I stated before, I changed my configuration to what you suggested and it worked great for audio. But, I didn't like the TV I had (LG 75SM9070) so I traded it in for a Samsung 82" Q900R. I hooked it up the exact same way SOURCE > TV > ARC > Vertex² > AVR. Now I get no audio at the AVR.

The Samsung 82" Q900R doesn't have eARC, only has ARC. So I don't know if that would/should make a difference.

Export config and verify that CEC ID is set to AUDIO SYSTEM w/ARC under webserver > CEC page, if not set correctly, do it, restart tv and you should be fine.

Good evening, I have noticed that since hooking up the Vertex2 I have had audio problems while playing dolby vision and dolby atmos programs. What occurs is the sound will move to the wrong channel. For example, the voice in the center channel will move to the surround right. This has occurred multiple times and it is not repeatable when rewinding. My devices used are: LG OLED C8, ATV4K, McIntosh MX160, Audioquest Cables. I have attached my settings on the Vertex 2. I played with the EDID settings trying to copy TX0 sink and Custom 2 but have not tried Automix. I have also played with the settings on my Processor and it still occurs with and without upmixing. The issues has occurred on FW.24 and .26. I have not noticed this when watching UHD disks or 1080P. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Update: After turning off DV on the ATV the issues remains. After turning off Atmos on the ATV the issue goes away.

Attached Files

File Type: txt

VERTEX2-CONFIG-7_24_2019.txt (10.4 KB, 4 views)

I set it up the way you said and I have audio now. Although I'm having to turn the volume up a lot higher than I used to and that seems odd.

I'm watching the 4K movie "LOGAN" and it has DTS-HD Master Audio. But It's only passing Dolby Digital. I've tested a few movies and that's all I get. The "Expert settings" in the Samsung 82" Q900R Sound options are;
Digital Output Audio Format:
PMC
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital +

Now matter what I do it won't select anything better than the Dolby Digital. I've added some screen shots for reference.

Thank you again for all the help

Attached Thumbnails

     

Attached Files

File Type: txt

VERTEX2-CONFIG-7_24_2019.txt (10.1 KB, 3 views)

This is more likely just because ATV4K use Dolby MAT for ATMOS transmission and more likely your AVR does NOT support Dolby MAT. just check this with the manufacturer.
From a vertex 2 point of view, if you set AUTOMIX with AUDIO OUT flag and restart your source and have same issue on ATMOS from ATV4K then this confirm the issue is with the AVR not supporting Dolby MAT.


Our devices support anything in existence today from any source to any sinks, yet, your equipment at output still need to support the audio format sent by the source.


We have zero control on ARC or eARC volume, so what you get is what TV is sending.


ARC is limited to ATMOS over DD+ (and yet only for a few TV), otherwise it is limited to 5.1, so what you are getting here seems absolutely normal, if you want higher sound format you need eARC TV (and still yet, no TV makes any issue of eARC correctly) and if you cannot have eARC TV, then you need to play content from a source at our device input since HDMI audio can carry all format, not the case for ARC. so I do not see any issue here.

Do you know why this would all of a sudden crop up? I’ve had this processor for 4 years and it’s fully Atmos and dtsx compatible and I’ve never had issues like this.

ATV4K was using ATMOS over TRUE HD and it was working just fine with any older AVR, until some months ago when they started to use Dolby MAT for Atmos transmission and then many older AVR stopped working for Atmos.
As I said, the best is to ask the AVR manufacturer if their AVR support ATMOS over Dolby MAT as output currently by ATV4K (sole source in the world currently doing it that way afaik)
You can also run the test I mentioned above or simply connect ATV4K > AVR to see if AVR can decode Atmos over MAT.


It is a nice way to force people buying new hardware while their current ones could/should work just fine, that's why I always wrote that people in such situation should complain to Apple, since if no one told them what they think about it, they will never reverse anything back or offer selectable method for Atmos output transmission.


FYI, there is 3 ways of transmitting Atmos:
1) Over DD+ (usually used by TV APPS/Netflix, etc..)
2) Over True HD (usually used by UHD BR player)
3) Over MAT (used by ATV4K since some months)

I tried auto mix with Max Audio and Max Video then flagged Audio out and I get no input to my processor (no sound). I also tried TX0 output priority with Audio out flagged and still the same issue of voiced moving around to different channels. I spoke with McIntosh regarding MAT and they said it is capable of passing the signal, which is what I thought since I have been using the ATV4K atmos with it for a long time and only set the Vertex2 up a few weeks ago.

Make sure to restart your source between each attempt when you do any edid changes.
I doubt that older AVR will support Dolby MAT natively since it is very recent, if it ever support it, it is via firmware upgrade, so make sure you are running latest firmware on your AVR.

Export and post your config as attachment please and post link to AVR usermanual too as well please.


When you said you was using atmos with AVR, was it thru a direct connection ATV4K > AVR direct ? or was it with ARC from display ?

When you say restart the source do you mean the video content or power restart the entire system? I have the Vertex settings attached in a few posts above and I cannot attach them with my current situation until later in the day. When I had it set up before I had the ATV to the AVP then the AVP to the TV. I have attached the link to the manual of the AVP.

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/-/media...x160om-03.ashx

When you change any EDID settings, source must be restarted, so for ATV4K may be easiest thing is remove/reconnect powercord.


You said you had ATV > AVP > TV, but are you sure the atmos was not coming back from TV to AVR via ARC ?
If you can connect back ATV > AVP > TV but do not use the ARC input of TV. that allow to verify AVP can decode HDMI atmos sound from ATV.

According to usermanual it seems 300MHz is MAX signal for this AVR. so I'm not even sure you can get atmos over dolby mat this way from ATV if sink is limited to 10.2Gbps.
If you can, copy us the email you received from the manufacturer about MAT support, and did you verify you are running latest firmware on it ?
Also there is no Dolby MAT reference of any kind in usermanual, so if there is any MAT support, it have to be from firmware upgrade and manufacturer should be able to tell which update added support (if any)

I don’t think I was using ARC since I only used monitor out from the processor and never used the tv for streaming. I essentially only used it for a monitor. I called and got that information from them. As far as the manual goes I wouldn’t expect them to put it in there because they don’t update that often...it’s a sore spot for some owners lol.

So did you try now to connect it directly again ATV > AVR and got ATMOS ?


Because here is the answer I received from the manufacturer:




Said otherwise, the above blablah means your AVR does NOT support Dolby MAT unless the guy does not know what he is talking about (I agree, it looks like he doesn't know what he is talking about, but that is the usual way to give a "no" in the industry)
Yet he have answered super fast and that is rare enough in the industry, so that is a very good point for them.


Now if you got a different answer by phone, I suggest you call again or send email and explain better. It's not us, hdfury, that should have to do that, our devices support anything, we work hard enough for that, so if others cannot support something, at least they should be clear on it, save you and us time.

Thank you very much for looking into this. I will reconnect soon....I had knee surgery yesterday so I’m not very mobile right now lol

Oh sorry, just rest then, i'll check our support history to seek for MX160 owners in order to verify all that.


MX160 is not the problem here, it's Apple and the fact that they changed from Atmos/TrueHD to Atmos/MAT, except from forcing people to buy new hardware, I see no reason to that change.
However, MX160 manufacturer should clearly state what their devices can do or not and write it clearly if they support it or not, and not say yes to you by phone and no to me by email.
Last but not least, they could potentially be able to update their devices to add support if it's missing, since it seems good hardware with update capabilities.

@HDfury

Any idea why my HTPC is not showing a source name? All other devices show a name.

My HTPC is using a Nvidia 2080 and Windows 10.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Not all sources will present SPD info, if no SPD info then there is no source name, I don't think any GPU will send any SPD info, some very well known source won't present it neither, typical example is Nvidia Shield.

Based on previous email I received from AVR manufacturer of your MX160, I asked the following as confirmation:


"Thank you for the reply, so MX160 will not support ATMOS from ATV4K since this is output using DOLBY MAT correct ?"


And the answer was: "Correct weuse the native output we don’t convert it to PCM."


So I'm deducting there is no Dolby MAT support from your AVR, so either Manufacturer of AVR can provide an update to you (i asked them about it for you too, waiting answer) or Apple TV need to do something for such older AVR owners or you should just use another source, but bottom line: our devices is not the culprit here. No issues from our devices.
So if you ever had that working previously it was before Atmos over Dolby MAT, where ATV4K was still using Atmos over TrueHD, or it was from TV ARC back to AVR which is Atmos over DD+


McIntosh was very fast to answer, so some credit must be given to them for that, I know how such tech question can be left unanswered forever by some companies to tell that this company seems better than many others in the AV industry.

Thank you very much for looking into this! Amazing customer service!

Good to know. Thank you.

Hi Michael,


When you can please try the following:


Instead of using AUDIO OUT to AVR INPUT, please try TX1 output to AVR input and see if it changes something for Atmos issue please.

I have a problem with audio out. As can be seen from the attached config file, it is the audio from TX0 that is sent to audio out and not the audio from TX1 which is the active port that should have been sent to audio out.
Apple TV 4k is connected to port TX0, Dune 4k solo is connected to TX1 and my HTPC is connected to TX2.
Whether I use my dune or my htpc, it is the audio from the apple tv that is sent to audio out. What is wrong with my settings?

VERTEX2-CONFIG-29.7.2019.txt

Some confusion here, TX0, TX1 are OUTPUT PORTS, not INPUT, so you CANNOT have your sources devices connected to OUTPUT, they are connected to INPUT.
T means transmit, output transmit, R means receive, input receive
So TX is transmission from output and RX is reception from input.


AUDIO OUT is binded to TX0 for a few reasons but majorly because of ARC/eARC extraction and forward to any AVR input via Audio out, that can only occur on master CEC output which is TX0
So if you want TX1 sound to audio out, you need to copy TX1 to TX0 (splitter mode and not matrix)