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-   -   HDFury Vertex2 - Owner's Thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/3069170-hdfury-vertex2-owners-thread.html)

no_cure 06-21-2019 11:46 AM

Thank you HDFury, haven’t ever used CEC/ARC, suppose I was in the dark there. Never stop learning I say...

Nevertheless, you answered Carbon’s question, so all ARC/eARC folks should good to go with the Vertex 2!

Eagerly waiting for June 28...

HDfury 06-21-2019 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_cure (Post 58211656)
Thank you HDFury, haven’t ever used CEC/ARC, suppose I was in the dark there. Never stop learning I say...

Nevertheless, you answered Carbon’s question, so all ARC/eARC folks should good to go with the Vertex 2!

Eagerly waiting for June 28...

No problem, you welcome, yeah never stop learning, no choice when the industry creates confusion... every day more new non sense...
latest we heard of ... New Samsung 8K (950) flagship with HDMI2.1 does not support eARC so be careful when buying HDMI2.1 TV ! it seems 2.1 does not necessarily means eARC (at least not until Samsung provide update if doable for them)


Early adopters always get screwed apparently...

Carbon Ft Print 06-23-2019 05:52 AM

Just pre-ordered a Vertex2. June 28 is just around the corner now.

no_cure 06-26-2019 08:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
2 days count-down.

JonnyVee 06-27-2019 03:36 AM

1 more day!

Seryl 06-27-2019 10:16 PM

I just got my shipping notice and tracking number.

HDfury 06-28-2019 03:00 AM

Usermanual + FW + IR Codes list + IR Commands list
 
We just published Vertex² Usermanual and FW package that include RS232/IP and IR code list.


It was very tough work to ship on time because we wanted unit to support Atmos over DD+ via ARC extraction.
Now it is supported and similar update will come to Maestro and Diva.


Feel free to suggest any addition once you have evaluated your unit.
Please do read usermanual a bit at least first pages, thanx.

Carbon Ft Print 06-28-2019 04:50 AM

Got my ship notice today.

Seryl 06-28-2019 11:34 AM

Delivery is set for Monday. I won't be home though, ironically I'll be in Taipei where the Vertex2 shipped from.

no_cure 06-28-2019 01:04 PM

Likewise...I've received my shipping notice as well. ETA - Mon next week...pretty excited!

Thanks HDfury!

no_cure 06-28-2019 01:41 PM

FYI, I've edited the first post to include key User Manual info.

I recommend printing and studying the User Manual while you await the arrival of Vertex 2. BTW, given my initial perusal, I find the manual to be very well written, detailed and logically constructed - well done @HDfury !

As these models continue their arrival in the wild, please let me know what sort of data I should add on the first post that will help newcomers.

Cheerio!

proza 06-28-2019 02:57 PM

@HDfury congrats on major release!
will the Integral2/Vertex1 IR codes work for Harmony, or any ETA?
Have you shipped also to distributors, or only direct to customers yet? Gauging where best to buy in Germany ;-)

HDfury 06-28-2019 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proza (Post 58237244)
@HDfury congrats on major release!
will the Integral2/Vertex1 IR codes work for Harmony, or any ETA?
Have you shipped also to distributors, or only direct to customers yet? Gauging where best to buy in Germany ;-)

Resellers will get unit in about 2 weeks, not before.

For IR codes, download firmware and email IR code list to Logitech to add to your account (they will more likely request 100 IR codes max, so edit your own list as we have more than 100)

proza 06-28-2019 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58237500)
Resellers will get unit in about 2 weeks, not before.

For IR codes, download firmware and email IR code list to Logitech to add to your account (they will more likely request 100 IR codes max, so edit your own list as we have more than 100)

Alright then, i've just put an order in directly at HDFury.com instead, straight from the source! :)

no_cure 06-28-2019 05:40 PM

HDFury Vertex2 - Owner’s Thread
 
Good call...expect it sometime next week. Pretty darn quick given the distance in kilometers...almost Amazon Prime quick.

I know I’ll have a fun couple of days setting and messing about with my new Vertex 2 - really, the proverbial Christmas in July! And, if something should go awry, I know HDfury will provide help within a matter of hours, 1/2 day max - worse case, they’ll custom create a FW. As you know , besides their stellar product performance, HDFury customer support is bar none; and for me, it was a MAJOR factor in choosing the Vertex 2 (no, I don’t own any other of their products).

In today’s consumer driven economy, that is something to be proud of, and it’s amazing how little importance it’s still being given to CS...even by large corporations.

sofakng 07-01-2019 10:59 AM

I've just received my Vertex2 today and it's incredibly solid and extremely polished. This thing screams quality and has a very nice weight to the device as well. You can tell this company cares about it's products!

I also want to thank HDfury (and Ken) for providing me so much help and answering all of my many questions. This company is absolutely fantastic and I haven't seen better customer service!

chenxiaolong 07-01-2019 09:20 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I just got my Vertex 2 today and it's working well for the most part, but I'm seeing a weird issue and I'm not sure if it's because I configured something wrong. Whenever I turn on or off TX0 (Samsung Q6FN), TX1 also temporarily loses the signal.

I'm using the "11 - 4K60-444 600MHz HDR BT2020 All Sound" custom EDID and have turned off CEC on the Vertex2, AVR, TV, and projector. I've attached 2 config exports:
  • Before_TX0_On.txt - TX0 was off and TX1 was on
  • After_TX0_On.txt - I turned on TX0. TX1 lost the signal for a few seconds and then the signal came back on both outputs.

My setup looks like this:
  • (Apple TV or Laptop) --> 3ft copper --> Denon X4500 AVR --> 3ft copper --(in 3)--> Vertex2 --(TX0)--> 3ft copper --> Samsung Q6FN TV
  • (Apple TV or Laptop) --> 3ft copper --> Denon X4500 AVR --> 3ft copper --(in 3)--> Vertex2 --(TX1)--> 50ft fiber --> Epson 5050UB projector
  • Nothing plugged into inputs 0, 1, or 2 on the Vertex2

HDfury 07-02-2019 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenxiaolong (Post 58248160)
I just got my Vertex 2 today and it's working well for the most part, but I'm seeing a weird issue and I'm not sure if it's because I configured something wrong. Whenever I turn on or off TX0 (Samsung Q6FN), TX1 also temporarily loses the signal.

I'm using the "11 - 4K60-444 600MHz HDR BT2020 All Sound" custom EDID and have turned off CEC on the Vertex2, AVR, TV, and projector. I've attached 2 config exports:
  • Before_TX0_On.txt - TX0 was off and TX1 was on
  • After_TX0_On.txt - I turned on TX0. TX1 lost the signal for a few seconds and then the signal came back on both outputs.
My setup looks like this:
  • (Apple TV or Laptop) --> 3ft copper --> Denon X4500 AVR --> 3ft copper --(in 3)--> Vertex2 --(TX0)--> 3ft copper --> Samsung Q6FN TV
  • (Apple TV or Laptop) --> 3ft copper --> Denon X4500 AVR --> 3ft copper --(in 3)--> Vertex2 --(TX1)--> 50ft fiber --> Epson 5050UB projector
  • Nothing plugged into inputs 0, 1, or 2 on the Vertex2



this is normal behavior at the moment. If user is in automix mode then its clear the EDID gets remixed and input will be hotplugged and this results in tx1 to blank as well
however if user is in other than automix there is also a remix for the CEC physical address, this is something that I suppose we could put under some setting enable/disable assuming that if CEC network screws up it doesn't matter if user isn't using CEC anyway but right now we keep it on at all times to remove all this confusion around CEC

So we can add such option and then you can unplug tx1 and it won't affect the tx0 in any way (if not in automix) it would be similar then when unplugging tx0 it would have no effect on tx1but as I said, it screws up cec

You guys want that ?

chenxiaolong 07-02-2019 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58248514)
this is normal behavior at the moment. If user is in automix mode then its clear the EDID gets remixed and input will be hotplugged and this results in tx1 to blank as well
however if user is in other than automix there is also a remix for the CEC physical address, this is something that I suppose we could put under some setting enable/disable assuming that if CEC network screws up it doesn't matter if user isn't using CEC anyway but right now we keep it on at all times to remove all this confusion around CEC

So we can add such option and then you can unplug tx1 and it won't affect the tx0 in any way (if not in automix) it would be similar then when unplugging tx0 it would have no effect on tx1but as I said, it screws up cec

You guys want that ?

Thanks for the info! If it's possible to make the remix optional, that would be great. I did some more testing and it looks like turning off the Samsung Q6FN (TX0) causes the state to change 3 times. First, it remains connected (shows signal on OLED). Then, it switches to "Connected but on standby" and then a couple minutes later, switches to "EDID not available". It would be nice if TX1 didn't lose the signal each time the state changes.

sofakng 07-02-2019 09:36 AM

I agree that would be useful. TX0 and TX1 input source changes shouldn't affect each other unless the EDID (automix) changes.

I also have an EDID automix question...

I'd like to have the following Vertex2 configuration:

TX0 -> 4K LG PC monitor
TX1 -> Denon AVR
SPDIF -> TOSLINK AVR

The problem is that automix doesn't work because it doesn't think TX0 has an audio capability. (i.e. the monitor EDID shows no audio or maybe stereo only) I need it consider TX0 to be 4K PC monitor PLUS SPDIF. Therefore, the automix algorithm would consider "TX0 + SPDIF and TX1". Maybe adding an additional algorithm for "TX0 (or TX1) Priority + Forced SPDIF" or similar?

...or maybe you can link the SPDIF output with TX0 or TX1 in the settings. Then it will add SPDIF compatible EDID to the base TX0 or TX1 EDID. The result would be "Copy TX0 Sink" would actually copy TX0 Sink + SPDIF EDID. It will also consider TX0 or TX1 to be "TX0 + SPDIF" or "TX1 + SPDIF" during automix.

Does that make sense?

Also, is it possible to add sending CEC commands via RS232/telnet as well as HPD pulses and +5V output control? (+5v/HPD pulses are the same thing I think?)

HDfury 07-02-2019 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenxiaolong (Post 58248750)
Thanks for the info! If it's possible to make the remix optional, that would be great. I did some more testing and it looks like turning off the Samsung Q6FN (TX0) causes the state to change 3 times. First, it remains connected (shows signal on OLED). Then, it switches to "Connected but on standby" and then a couple minutes later, switches to "EDID not available". It would be nice if TX1 didn't lose the signal each time the state changes.

As I wrote before, that is absolutely normal to avoid cec logical address issue, so as long as you do not plan to use CEC and understand that CEC CANNOT work this way, then we can add such option.

HDfury 07-02-2019 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofakng (Post 58249404)
I agree that would be useful. TX0 and TX1 input source changes shouldn't affect each other unless the EDID (automix) changes.

I also have an EDID automix question...

I'd like to have the following Vertex2 configuration:

TX0 -> 4K LG PC monitor
TX1 -> Denon AVR
SPDIF -> TOSLINK AVR

The problem is that automix doesn't work because it doesn't think TX0 has an audio capability. (i.e. the monitor EDID shows no audio or maybe stereo only) I need it consider TX0 to be 4K PC monitor PLUS SPDIF. Therefore, the automix algorithm would consider "TX0 + SPDIF and TX1". Maybe adding an additional algorithm for "TX0 (or TX1) Priority + Forced SPDIF" or similar?

...or maybe you can link the SPDIF output with TX0 or TX1 in the settings. Then it will add SPDIF compatible EDID to the base TX0 or TX1 EDID. The result would be "Copy TX0 Sink" would actually copy TX0 Sink + SPDIF EDID. It will also consider TX0 or TX1 to be "TX0 + SPDIF" or "TX1 + SPDIF" during automix.

Does that make sense?

Also, is it possible to add sending CEC commands via RS232/telnet as well as HPD pulses and +5V output control? (+5v/HPD pulses are the same thing I think?)


If you use CEC (as it seems you wrote you are according to the last sentence) then you cannot disconnect/reconnect output without resync, as stated 2 times, we can do such option but then CEC stop working. the purpose of resync in Custom EDID mode is to update the CEC logical address in EDID (and NOT automix ! automix will always resync if you understand how it works)


About your sound question, it currently does not make sense to me sorry: just select 5.1 as Audio flag in Automix flag and you are done unless I missed something. you can also use a custom EDID with 5.1
Also if you have an AVR, why not advertising full sound always and therefor always get full sound, why do you need 5.1 for your AVR when HDMI can carry higher format ?

sofakng 07-02-2019 10:33 AM

OK ... Maybe I'm not understanding automix correctly.

Does automix work per source -> sink chain?

For example, if TX0 and TX1 have different inputs (RX0 -> TX0 and RX1 -> TX1) then I thought no automix would occur. Each source is going to different sinks so no need to generate different EDID, etc.

However, if both TX0 and TX1 have the same input (RX0) then automix would generate a new EDID based on your automix settings. I believe this is how most matrices/AVRs work?

chenxiaolong 07-02-2019 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58249470)
As I wrote before, that is absolutely normal to avoid cec logical address issue, so as long as you do not plan to use CEC and understand that CEC CANNOT work this way, then we can add such option.

That's completely fine for my use case. I have no intention of using CEC on any device.

HDfury 07-02-2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofakng (Post 58249586)
OK ... Maybe I'm not understanding automix correctly.

Does automix work per source -> sink chain?

For example, if TX0 and TX1 have different inputs (RX0 -> TX0 and RX1 -> TX1) then I thought no automix would occur. Each source is going to different sinks so no need to generate different EDID, etc.

However, if both TX0 and TX1 have the same input (RX0) then automix would generate a new EDID based on your automix settings. I believe this is how most matrices/AVRs work?



It's way more complex than that, mainly because the most popular use case is 4K to TV, lower to AVR or capture or FHD sink, etc...
AUTOMIX will always make a mix and this mix is under YOUR control, so based on your use case you define the proper ALGO and the proper forced flag.
And when you do that you should also consider the unit downscaling capabilities, since Audio out is always 720p/1080p and TX1 can downscale, most of the time you will target 4K for TX0 and let the unit do the video operation automatically (Autoscaling > Autosense).


what you describe here is a situation where you should use custom EDID and you can create your own custom EDID from Automix EDID (just save to file and load it back as custom EDID)
If TX0 and TX1 use different input, then use different custom edid for each input.
If TX0 and TX1 have same input, then use custom edid or automix


Last but not least, even if one input goes to one output, an EDID will always be remixed because as we discussed above, you need CEC logical address to be shifted, you cannot just blindly copy an edid and expect everything to work fine, it won't work fine if you do that. (at least not for CEC)

HDfury 07-02-2019 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenxiaolong (Post 58249680)
That's completely fine for my use case. I have no intention of using CEC on any device.

Ok good, i'll check with devs if they can add such feature then.

sofakng 07-02-2019 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58249774)
If TX0 and TX1 use different input, then use different custom edid for each input.
If TX0 and TX1 have same input, then use custom edid or automix

Yes, that is what I'm trying to automatically work without me having to change EDID settings every time I change inputs.

It seems like HDfury Diva/Vertex/Integral work a little differently than traditional HDMI matrices. Normally if two inputs were going to different outputs the matrix wouldn't change EDID. The only time it would change EDID is if one input was going to multiple outputs. That is the only situation where it needs to make sure all displays are compatible so it needs to generate an EDID compatible with all displays.

I was hoping it would work like this:

Quote:

Example #1

RX0 -> TX0
RX1 -> TX1

No automix. TX0 EDID would be sent in RX0 and TX1 EDID would be sent to RX1.
Quote:

Example #2

RX0 -> TX0 & TX1

If TX0 is turned off (i.e. TV is off) then TX1 EDID would be sent to RX0.
If TX1 is turned off (i.e. TV is off) then TX0 EDID would be sent to RX0.
If both outputs were turned on, then it would automix to get compatible output signal.
Hopefully I'm still misunderstanding something. I know that I can use Vertex(2) to downscale and upscale to generate compatible signals for each display but I was hoping to use the Vertex(2) more like a traditional HDMI matrix with HDMI audio extraction, HDMI diagnostic information, etc.

HDfury 07-02-2019 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofakng (Post 58250324)
Yes, that is what I'm trying to automatically work without me having to change EDID settings every time I change inputs.

It seems like HDfury Diva/Vertex/Integral work a little differently than traditional HDMI matrices. Normally if two inputs were going to different outputs the matrix wouldn't change EDID. The only time it would change EDID is if one input was going to multiple outputs. That is the only situation where it needs to make sure all displays are compatible so it needs to generate an EDID compatible with all displays.

I was hoping it would work like this:





Hopefully I'm still misunderstanding something. I know that I can use Vertex(2) to downscale and upscale to generate compatible signals for each display but I was hoping to use the Vertex(2) more like a traditional HDMI matrix with HDMI audio extraction, HDMI diagnostic information, etc.


Yes we can add such option too, no problem but it will be after some priority update.
First is config import for Diva/Maestro/Vertex2
And we just found some bug thanx to an user on FW0.23 for Vertex2, so there is an update incoming (some DV/HDR options get checked after a reboot)

HDfury 07-02-2019 03:07 PM

Vertex² Mandatory update for users running FW0.23
 
If you are running FW023 for ARC please update to FW0.24
this solves an issue with HDR/DV options getting enabled after reboot


https://hdfury.com/tools/Vertex2_FW_24.zip

If you use FW0.22 for eARC no need to update.

One main firmware covering ARC and eARC is underway

sofakng 07-02-2019 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58250362)
Yes we can add such option too, no problem but it will be after some priority update.
First is config import for Diva/Maestro/Vertex2
And we just found some bug thanx to an user on FW0.23 for Vertex2, so there is an update incoming (some DV/HDR options get checked after a reboot)

Sounds good, thanks.

I didn't mention this, but I'm connecting the Vertex2 to displays located in different rooms. That is I consider each output a completely separately video chain, etc.


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