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no_cure 05-23-2019 03:09 PM

HDFury Vertex2 - Owner's Thread
 
2 Attachment(s)
________________________________________

Post all questions for HDFury Vertex² in this thread. I’m hoping that I’ve gathered most of the information correctly, but in case I didn’t, please let me know and I'll rectify.

##### FAQ #####

A. When & Where can I buy this product?

Available NOW at https://www.hdfury.com/product/4k-vertex2-18gbps/


B. What is the HDFury Vertex²

It is a new version of the famed HDFury Vertex with the following features (brief overview - not all encompassing):


1. 4×2 Matrix/Splitter/Scaler for 4K HDR/DV 18Gbps/600MHz + Full HDMI Audio out (extract HDMI/ARC/eARC).

o 4x HDMI 2.0 inputs
o 2x HDMI 2.0 video outputs (w/ scaling options) AND
o 1x dedicated HDMI full audio output (user selectable 720p or 1080p)

2. All inputs capable of 4K HDR/HLG/DV/LLDV/HDR10+ up to 18Gbps

3. Vertex² is also capable of extracting full audio from any TV ARC or eARC (HDMI2.1) up to Atmos High Bit Rate over True HD and forward it via 720p/1080p HDMI to ANY capable AVR input

4. Process two 18Gbps signals at the same time from 2 sources to 2 sinks devices and have one of the channel duplicated and converted in res/hdcp/chroma/color depth/color space/etc. to 1080p + a third output with HDMI audio out

5. HDMI TX0 and TX1 video outputs are capable of outputting 18Gbps as well as all sound formats

6. Greater memory that original Vertex

7. Auto-switch any source

8. Unlike the original Vertex, you can setup and manage the Vertex² via a webserver from any computer/mobile or web browser based device

9. LAN Control, RS232, L/R stereo or Optical 5.1 output, IR RX, IR sensor, IR window, OLED display and 4 buttons on the side allowing to enter/exit and perform change in the device system menu

10. Exact signal timing report with up to 3 digits decimals accuracy on frame rate

11. Vertex² is now capable of sending any custom RS232 commands to any RS232 capable display based on incoming signal types or particular metadata value

12. Provides a total of 15 HDCP 1.4 and 2.2 engines for decryption/encryption

13. Capable of connecting any HDCP1.x or HDCP2.x source devices to any HDCP1.x or HDCP 2.x sink devices

14. Display HDCP 2.2 Content with Non-HDCP2.2 Compliant Devices

15. Vertex2 is capable of physically disconnecting/reconnecting device at output via software, designed to save all standby mode issues some/most Android TVs have (e.g like Sony)


C. Table w/ Features Overview is attached!

D. General Support Q&A


To ensure that HDFury fully understands your setup so they can provide suitable answers, when posting tech support questions, it is strongly encouraged to provide as much description to your setup as possible. Therefore, please describe ALL equipment in your chain (include any relevant links as needed)

i. Input Sources:
• Brand & Model

ii. HDMI Cabling:
• Cable brand & type (copper/active/fiber)
• Cable length

iii. Sink Devices:
• Brand & Model

iv. Example Chain:

ATV 4k -> KabelDirekt 6ft copper -> (in 1) Vertex² (out 1) -> KabelDirekt 6ft copper -> LG C9
Oppo 203 -> KabelDirekt 6ft copper -> (in 2) Vertex² (out 2) -> KabelDirekt 12ft copper -> JVC DLA-RS600U
---------------------------------------------------> Vertex² (Audio out) -> KabelDirekt 10ft copper -> Denon AVR-X1500H


Side note on HDMI cables:
- given experiences with the original Vertex, for copper HDMI cables, their recommended lengths should be between min 6ft to max 12ft
- recommended brands: KableDirekt, Bluejeanscable or HDfury own cables (however others are most likely to work as well)


E. Creating & Sending Config Files (for troubleshooting)

To save and send Vertex2 config files :
1. Access the Web Server - see User Manual pg. 16
2. Config Export via Web Server - see User Manual pg. 40

F. User Manual Link:

https://www.hdfury.com/docs/HDfuryVertex2.pdf

Changelog #1 (5/24/19):
Per HDFury input:
- removed Windows GUI capability
- added details regarding auto (dis)connect feature via embedded software

Changelog #2 (5/28/19):
- released date changed to June 28 2019
- added overview table
- provided initial Q&A format
- attached actual picture of Vertex² product

Changelog #3 (6/28/19):
- added details w.r.t. Web Server access + saving/sending config files
- added link to User Manual

HDfury 05-24-2019 07:28 AM

Very good first post, thank you very much !!


Please note that Vertex2 is capable of physically disconnecting/reconnecting device at output via software, this is unique features build to save all standby mode hassle of Android TV (sony one but not only) and any devices making problem in standby mode.
You can see the nightmare it is when you have AV chain with multiple sinks and an Android TV here (translate in English with browser if you don't read german): https://community.sony.de/t5/android-tv/standby-verhalten/td-p/2366762/page/42?nobounce


PS: No Windows GUI for Vertex2 as you can use webserver from any computer/mobile or web browser based device.

no_cure 05-24-2019 08:07 AM

Thank you @HDfury - post edited given your feedback!

JonnyVee 05-25-2019 05:29 AM

Thank you for starting this thread. I’ve preordered and I’m looking forward to the dual 4k matrix capabilities and JVC projector integration. I asked a question in the Vertex thread last week. Below is the answer ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58064208)
I preordered the new Vertex2 and have a few basic questions. I’ll have an HTPC, Xbox One X, and a PS4 Pro as inputs.

- Output 1 —> Denon x4400 -> JVC x790 Projector
- Output 2 —> Denon 730H -> LG OLED B7

1. My x790 is in a seperate room. To connect the RS232/DB9 adapter. I just need a standard male to female 3.5 mm audio extension cable?

2. The Vertex will allow the two outputs to send different 4k input signals simultaneously? Therefore, I can watch movies on the projector while my kids play Xbox or PS4 on the OLED(or vice versa).

3. The Vertex will allow the two outputs to send the same 4k input signal simultaneously?

4. The Vertex can be controlled via the Logitech Harmony hub?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58064244)
1. Yes correct.
2. Yes it's a full matrix, no problem for that
3. Yes
4. Yes (just note that it can takes a couple of weeks before codes become available on harmony db, you can also send them your own IR code list to add to your account)

Looks like you are all good ;)


Seraphic- 05-25-2019 07:56 AM

Have a GoBlue with only BT that I picked up long time ago. Will it work with the Vertex2 or does it require the GoBlue with IR+BT?

HDfury 05-25-2019 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphic- (Post 58096878)
Have a GoBlue with only BT that I picked up long time ago. Will it work with the Vertex2 or does it require the GoBlue with IR+BT?

No, new devices have webserver that allow straight connection from WIN/MAC/LINUX/iOS/Android or any web browser based device, no need of any GoBlue add on.

Seraphic- 05-25-2019 08:03 AM

GoBlue with BT (not IR model) still works with very first generation Integral though right (one with full 4:4:4 600mhz in/out)?

HDfury 05-25-2019 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphic- (Post 58096912)
GoBlue with BT (not IR model) still works with very first generation Integral though right (one with full 4:4:4 600mhz in/out)?

Yes, it will give you faster BT connection for early Integral1 model.

Seraphic- 05-25-2019 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58096934)
Yes, it will give you faster BT connection for early Integral1 model.


Okay. What is the IR RX Sensor cable (9ft) used for that comes with the Vertex2 if not the IR GoBlue?

HDfury 05-25-2019 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphic- (Post 58096948)
Okay. What is the IR RX Sensor cable (9ft) used for that comes with the Vertex2 if not the IR GoBlue?

Sorry I'm not following what you mean, try to elaborate a bit please.

Seraphic- 05-25-2019 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58097050)
Sorry I'm not following what you mean, try to elaborate a bit please.


On the Vertex2 product page it says each order comes with a IR RX Sensor cable (9ft). What can that be used for?

HDfury 05-25-2019 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphic- (Post 58097094)
On the Vertex2 product page it says each order comes with a IR RX Sensor cable (9ft). What can that be used for?

In case Vertex2 IR eye is not in line of sight, then you can use that for your IR remote to control Diva. That's very common in AV.

Seraphic- 05-25-2019 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58097358)
In case Vertex2 IR eye is not in line of sight, then you can use that for your IR remote to control Diva. That's very common in AV.


So an IR remote can be programmed to be used with the Vertex2, but a remote does not come with it?

HDfury 05-25-2019 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphic- (Post 58097678)
So an IR remote can be programmed to be used with the Vertex2, but a remote does not come with it?


Any universal IR remote can be used with it, such as Logitech Harmony, iRules and any others...
No IR remote included.

HDfury 05-26-2019 12:41 PM

Shipping delayed to 28th June 2019
 
Vertex² released was postponed to 28th June 2019 due to current work load with Diva FW.
Most of the work done that also concern Vertex² will be ported to Vertex² before shipment.

no_cure 05-28-2019 08:11 AM

Thanks for letting us know @HDfury .

Hopefully the delay won't be much longer...eagerly awaiting my Vertex²!!!

P.S. Edited OP to add a quick access table showing all of the main Vertex² features.

HDfury 05-28-2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_cure (Post 58107920)
Thanks for letting us know @HDfury.

Hopefully the delay won't be much longer...eagerly awaiting my Vertex²!!!

P.S. Edited OP to add a quick access table showing all of the main Vertex² features.

Should not take longer, just the time for us to port the work done on Diva to Maestro and Vertex2 since we received LG C9 2.1 eARC and Sony eARC TV in our lab and added perfect eARC support to Diva now.


PS: Table is perfect, except that it miss optical output which is a combo optical/analog, so same output can do both Analog stereo or optical

no_cure 05-28-2019 08:55 AM

Sorry for that omission @HDfury . Table has been augmented to include the 5.1 Optical Output (tosslink).

dhackney 05-29-2019 06:09 PM

Vertex2 in eARC path
 
@HDfury

Can the Vertex2 be connected in the eARC path between the TV and the receiver?

HDfury 05-30-2019 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhackney (Post 58115626)
@HDfury

Can the Vertex2 be connected in the eARC path between the TV and the receiver?

Yes but then it's AVR getting eARC


For Vertex2 to get eARC > eARC TV to TX0 output, AVR to Audio out.

dhackney 05-30-2019 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58116574)
Yes but then it's AVR getting eARC


For Vertex2 to get eARC > eARC TV to TX0 output, AVR to Audio out.


Thanks for the quick reply.



Confirming patch:



LG C9 TV eARC HDMI 2 ---> Vertex2 TX0 output ---> Vertex2 Audio out ---> Yamaha RX-A3080 HDMI output 1





The goal is to "get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC" and eARC.

The LG C9's Netflix and Amazon apps do not recognize the RX-A3080 as a valid Atmos path via ARC or eARC.



The LG C9's Netflix and Amazon apps produce DD+ with no Atmos on the Yamaha RX-A3080.





BD players' Blu-ray DA discs produce lossless Dolby TrueHD Atmos on the RX-A3080 when passed through the LG C9 via eARC.


The Yamaha RX-A3080 supports eARC with the latest firmware.

The LG C9 supports a subset of HDMI 2.1, including eARC.

HDfury 05-30-2019 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhackney (Post 58117326)
Thanks for the quick reply.



Confirming patch:



LG C9 TV eARC HDMI 2 ---> Vertex2 TX0 output ---> Vertex2 Audio out ---> Yamaha RX-A3080 HDMI output 1





The goal is to "get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC" and eARC.

The LG C9's Netflix and Amazon apps do not recognize the RX-A3080 as a valid Atmos path via ARC or eARC.



The LG C9's Netflix and Amazon apps produce DD+ with no Atmos on the Yamaha RX-A3080.





BD players' Blu-ray DA discs produce lossless Dolby TrueHD Atmos on the RX-A3080 when passed through the LG C9 via eARC.


The Yamaha RX-A3080 supports eARC with the latest firmware.

The LG C9 supports a subset of HDMI 2.1, including eARC.

Yes, that's good, use eARC and forget ARC then, we also have LG C9 in lab, eARC works perfectly from it and save you from the hassle and limitations that come with cec/arc

chenxiaolong 06-15-2019 03:37 PM

If I have 2 outputs and use automix EDID, will it be possible to add additional modes to the EDID? For example, I have a 4K TV and a 3D 4K projector and I'd like to enable the 3D modes (even though the TV won't work when watching 3D content). I'm currently using the dual-output on my AVR, which doesn't support customizing the EDID, so I'm hoping the Vertex2 will have this sort of functionality.

HDfury 06-15-2019 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenxiaolong (Post 58186914)
If I have 2 outputs and use automix EDID, will it be possible to add additional modes to the EDID? For example, I have a 4K TV and a 3D 4K projector and I'd like to enable the 3D modes (even though the TV won't work when watching 3D content). I'm currently using the dual-output on my AVR, which doesn't support customizing the EDID, so I'm hoping the Vertex2 will have this sort of functionality.

For this you can simply use any of the custom EDID, they all have 3D capabilities.
If you use Automix, you can set ALGO to TX0 or TX1 output priority, so the one who have 3D get mixed in priority.

Carbon Ft Print 06-19-2019 11:09 AM

Can Vertex2 route ATMOS audio stream (ATMOS is derived via ARC (not eARC) from an LG C8 77" OLED streaming App) through Vertex2's HDMI Audio Out to audio processor's HDMI input ... all when streaming via LG C8 77" OLED apps? See below LG Reference Thread on doing this.

Config:

Emotiva's RMC-1 HDMI ARC Out ---> Vertex2 ---> LG C8 77" OLED

Vertex2 HDMI Audio Out ---> (HDMI Input) RMC-1

Note: RMC-1 is an audio processor

LG Reference Thread:

I read the following post regarding ARC (not eARC) and ATMOS using the LG C8 OLED: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post58201278

"If you have a receiver that supports Atmos you can get non lossy Atmos even when you plug the receiver into ARC. However you won't be able to play non lossy Atmos through the smart hub, which won't be an issue at least for now. All streaming services with Atmos only provide compressed Atmos. "

P.S. Just read this on the HDfury.com sight ... so I guess the answer is yes.

"World First: Vertex² is also capable of extracting full audio from any TV ARC or eARC (HDMI2.1) up to Atmos High Bit Rate over True HD and forward it via 720p/1080p HDMI to ANY capable AVR input!"

no_cure 06-19-2019 02:31 PM

No reason why you wouldn't be able to extract Atmos audio from your LG C8...although your config, as stated, doesn't look quite right to me (could be wrong though). The LG C8 is the source, since that's where the app is playing, so it would be connecting to one of the INPUTs of the Vertex 2, and the Audio Out port would connect to the RMC-1 pre/pro.

To follow the recommended configuration connection, I'm thinking you'd want to connect as follows:

LG C8 ARC HDMI -> (name your brand) HDMI 6' copper cable -> (in 1) Vertex²
------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Vertex² (Audio out) -> (name your brand) HDMI 10' copper cable -> RMC-1 HDMI 1 in

HDfury 06-19-2019 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print (Post 58202376)
Can Vertex2 route ATMOS audio stream (ATMOS is derived via ARC (not eARC) from an LG C8 77" OLED streaming App) through Vertex2's HDMI Audio Out to audio processor's HDMI input ... all when streaming via LG C8 77" OLED apps? See below LG Reference Thread on doing this.

Config:

Emotiva's RMC-1 HDMI ARC Out ---> Vertex2 ---> LG C8 77" OLED

Vertex2 HDMI Audio Out ---> (HDMI Input) RMC-1

Note: RMC-1 is an audio processor

LG Reference Thread:

I read the following post regarding ARC (not eARC) and ATMOS using the LG C8 OLED: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post58201278

"If you have a receiver that supports Atmos you can get non lossy Atmos even when you plug the receiver into ARC. However you won't be able to play non lossy Atmos through the smart hub, which won't be an issue at least for now. All streaming services with Atmos only provide compressed Atmos. "

P.S. Just read this on the HDfury.com sight ... so I guess the answer is yes.

"World First: Vertex² is also capable of extracting full audio from any TV ARC or eARC (HDMI2.1) up to Atmos High Bit Rate over True HD and forward it via 720p/1080p HDMI to ANY capable AVR input!"


YES!


ARC is up to ATMOS over DD+
eARC is up to anything you want (Atmos HBR over TrueHD)


The restriction with ARC is that you cannot have its output connected to TV if you already have VERTEX2 output connected to it for ARC extraction. TV only accept one Audio System w/ARC, if you connect 2 it can make problem (there is solution if AVR have enough option, like pass thru, CEC OFF, etc..)

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_cure (Post 58203472)
No reason why you wouldn't be able to extract Atmos audio from your LG C8...although your config, as stated, doesn't look quite right to me (could be wrong though). The LG C8 is the source, since that's where the app is playing, so it would be connecting to one of the INPUTs of the Vertex 2, and the Audio Out port would connect to the RMC-1 pre/pro.

To follow the recommended configuration connection, I'm thinking you'd want to connect as follows:

LG C8 ARC HDMI -> (name your brand) HDMI 6' copper cable -> (in 1) Vertex²
------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Vertex² (Audio out) -> (name your brand) HDMI 10' copper cable -> RMC-1 HDMI 1 in


You cannot connect an INPUT to an INPUT, just like you cannot connect and OUTPUT to an OUTPUT


INPUT > OUTPUT
OUTPUT > INPUT


So TV ARC INPUT > Vertex2 TX0 OUTPUT
Vertex2 AUDIO OUT > AVR INPUT.


What have confused you is the fact that sound comes from TV apps and goes somewhere, so you think it OUTPUT something and that should go to an INPUT.
In reality ARC means Audio Return Channel, and the important word here is "RETURN" so TV sound RETURN from it's INPUT to the OUTPUT of a device.
Thanx the industry for the confusion ;)

claw 06-19-2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print (Post 58202376)
Can Vertex2 route ATMOS audio stream (ATMOS is derived via ARC (not eARC) from an LG C8 77" OLED streaming App) through Vertex2's HDMI Audio Out to audio processor's HDMI input ... all when streaming via LG C8 77" OLED apps? See below LG Reference Thread on doing this.

Config:

Emotiva's RMC-1 HDMI ARC Out ---> Vertex2 ---> LG C8 77" OLED

Vertex2 HDMI Audio Out ---> (HDMI Input) RMC-1

Note: RMC-1 is an audio processor

LG Reference Thread:

I read the following post regarding ARC (not eARC) and ATMOS using the LG C8 OLED: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post58201278

"If you have a receiver that supports Atmos you can get non lossy Atmos even when you plug the receiver into ARC. However you won't be able to play non lossy Atmos through the smart hub, which won't be an issue at least for now. All streaming services with Atmos only provide compressed Atmos. "

P.S. Just read this on the HDfury.com sight ... so I guess the answer is yes.

"World First: Vertex² is also capable of extracting full audio from any TV ARC or eARC (HDMI2.1) up to Atmos High Bit Rate over True HD and forward it via 720p/1080p HDMI to ANY capable AVR input!"

I assume you understand that the C8 does not support eARC, just ARC. So you will never get lossless HD audio from the C8 over ARC. The maximum will be ATMOS with Dolby Digital+. Even my B7A can send ATMOS/DD+ over ARC.

no_cure 06-20-2019 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDfury (Post 58203688)

You cannot connect an INPUT to an INPUT, just like you cannot connect and OUTPUT to an OUTPUT


INPUT > OUTPUT
OUTPUT > INPUT


So TV ARC INPUT > Vertex2 TX0 OUTPUT
Vertex2 AUDIO OUT > AVR INPUT.


What have confused you is the fact that sound comes from TV apps and goes somewhere, so you think it OUTPUT something and that should go to an INPUT.
In reality ARC means Audio Return Channel, and the important word here is "RETURN" so TV sound RETURN from it's INPUT to the OUTPUT of a device.
Thanx the industry for the confusion ;)

Some/most agree that the initial implementation CEC and ARC were short of FUBARd, hence eARC is trying to patch things up.

Well, I stand corrected - thanks for the clarification. So I suppose then, for the Vertex2, any ARC capable TV should be connected to the HDMI Audio out port...otherwise, any other 'normal' source should be connected to one of the inputs.

HDfury 06-20-2019 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_cure (Post 58206380)
Some/most agree that the initial implementation CEC and ARC were short of FUBARd, hence eARC is trying to patch things up.

Well, I stand corrected - thanks for the clarification. So I suppose then, for the Vertex2, any ARC capable TV should be connected to the HDMI Audio out port...otherwise, any other 'normal' source should be connected to one of the inputs.


No ! because AUDIO OUT is made to be connected to an AVR, remember the video signal is 720p or 1080p with full sound extracted from eARC/ARC or HDMI input.


TX0 output (Full 18Gbps) is MASTER CEC, that's the one that must go to TV ARC input if you want to extract ARC from TV and forward to AVR via AUDIO OUT > AVR INPUT.
Same for eARC, TX0 is the one that go to TV to retrieve eARC and forward to AVR via AUDIO OUT > AVR INPUT


VIDEO + AUDIO from sources goes to Vertex2, TX0 carry VIDEO and SOUND or just VIDEO as you want, AUDIO OUT output the AUDIO on the a 720p/1080 self generated stream so it is accepted as valid input on any AVR out there.


in case of ARC/eARC if it's from source, TX0 carry VIDEO and AUDIO to TV and TV RETURNS the sound back to TX0 which goes to AUDIO OUT which send AUDIO on a 720p/1080p self generated stream so it is accepted as valid input on any AVR out there.
in case of ARC/eARC, if its from TV apps, TX0 retrieve the RETURN sound from TV and send it out via AUDIO OUT on a self generated stream 720/1020p so it is accepted as valid input on any AVR out there.


ARC up to Atmos over DD+
eARC up to anything you want, like Atmos HBR over True HD
HDMI sources at input up to anything you want.


All sound format in existence today supported.
All video format in existence today supported.


World first solution of this kind (with Maestro/Diva.. well our new hardware generation)


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