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post #1 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool HDFury DIVA vs X4 vs Linker

Hi All!


Here is my situation:


Onkyo TX-NR595 Receiver (Dolby Atmos Capable)
Panasonic AE7000 Projector (SDR, 1080P)


What I want: UHD streaming or Bluray playback reasonably downscaled with HDR stripped or reasonably well converted to SDR. This is needed so I can use Dolby Atmos (cause Dolby Atmos is usually only packaged with UHD content! Grrrr!)



When contacted, FuryHD has been pushing the FuryHD Diva as if it's the only solution. Then after an inquiry, they said the X4 would probably work - but that it isn't nearly as good. The HDFury Linker looks like it COULD work, but they are adamant that it would not.


The AV map is UHD SOURCE ---> Receiver --> CONVERTER / Scaler / Scaler + Converter --> AE7000 Projector



Who here has experience with these products? Are there other products that would do the same or better more affordably?



My plan is to do a formal product review with what I learn. I want to keep my projector; been very happy with it.


Regards,
Enterfrize
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
Hi All!


Here is my situation:


Onkyo TX-NR595 Receiver (Dolby Atmos Capable)
Panasonic AE7000 Projector (SDR, 1080P)


What I want: UHD streaming or Bluray playback reasonably downscaled with HDR stripped or reasonably well converted to SDR. This is needed so I can use Dolby Atmos (cause Dolby Atmos is usually only packaged with UHD content! Grrrr!)



When contacted, FuryHD has been pushing the FuryHD Diva as if it's the only solution. Then after an inquiry, they said the X4 would probably work - but that it isn't nearly as good. The HDFury Linker looks like it COULD work, but they are adamant that it would not.


The AV map is UHD SOURCE ---> Receiver --> CONVERTER / Scaler / Scaler + Converter --> AE7000 Projector



Who here has experience with these products? Are there other products that would do the same or better more affordably?



My plan is to do a formal product review with what I learn. I want to keep my projector; been very happy with it.


Regards,
Enterfrize
I accomplished this with the Gofanco Prophecy (Pro-HDRsplit2P). They actually modified the firmware on my request to force SDR only and block HDR for me. It might be worth a try for your use case also. I used this for a while prior to upgrading to my 4K projector. I was using the 5030ub with Prophecy and a Demon receiver with good results.

It is inexpensive and worked well. HDR can be more trouble than it is worth sometimes, I wish we could have the projector force SDR so we could avoid issues that HDR has for those of us with 4K setups vs forcing at the source of each device which varies from good to non existent.



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaredmwright View Post
I accomplished this with the Gofanco Prophecy (Pro-HDRsplit2P). They actually modified the firmware on my request to force SDR only and block HDR for me. It might be worth a try for your use case also. I used this for a while prior to upgrading to my 4K projector. I was using the 5030ub with Prophecy and a Demon receiver with good results.

It is inexpensive and worked well. HDR can be more trouble than it is worth sometimes, I wish we could have the projector force SDR so we could avoid issues that HDR has for those of us with 4K setups vs forcing at the source of each device which varies from good to non existent.



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk



That sounds promising. So for a UHD source, it will THINK it is 4K, this will scale and make the HDR look decent on and SDR screen, and then I'll be able to use my projector?


How would you describe the results? Does everything look banded and pixelated, or was it comparable to a good 1080P result? I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't want it to look like a shoddy Youtube video. ;-)
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
That sounds promising. So for a UHD source, it will THINK it is 4K, this will scale and make the HDR look decent on and SDR screen, and then I'll be able to use my projector?


How would you describe the results? Does everything look banded and pixelated, or was it comparable to a good 1080P result? I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't want it to look like a shoddy Youtube video. ;-)
What this device will do is send the HDMI flag supporting 4K with SDR, thereby disabling HDR completely. This avoids the need to convert HDR to SDR such as the HD Fury device for example. Your source will send the 4K signal via SDR and this device can pass it while converting to 1080P maintaining the audio. You will get 1080P SDR with ATMOS or whatever the audio source is sending. I successfully used this with apps such as Vudu, Amazon Prime, etc...

Hope that helps clarify. I went down the Vertex path and others before finding this as a solution. The firmware I used is not available on their website and you will need to ask for it, or I can provide it if necessary. I think I still have it saved.
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaredmwright View Post
What this device will do is send the HDMI flag supporting 4K with SDR, thereby disabling HDR completely. This avoids the need to convert HDR to SDR such as the HD Fury device for example. Your source will send the 4K signal via SDR and this device can pass it while converting to 1080P maintaining the audio. You will get 1080P SDR with ATMOS or whatever the audio source is sending. I successfully used this with apps such as Vudu, Amazon Prime, etc...

Hope that helps clarify. I went down the Vertex path and others before finding this as a solution. The firmware I used is not available on their website and you will need to ask for it, or I can provide it if necessary. I think I still have it saved.
So it's true native SDR without the trade-offs of (potentially) risky conversions?!? That is EXACTLY what I need. I need this for a product review series, and this was the missing link. I'm contacting them now. THANK YOU.
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
Hi All!


Here is my situation:


Onkyo TX-NR595 Receiver (Dolby Atmos Capable)
Panasonic AE7000 Projector (SDR, 1080P)


What I want: UHD streaming or Bluray playback reasonably downscaled with HDR stripped or reasonably well converted to SDR. This is needed so I can use Dolby Atmos (cause Dolby Atmos is usually only packaged with UHD content! Grrrr!)



When contacted, FuryHD has been pushing the FuryHD Diva as if it's the only solution. Then after an inquiry, they said the X4 would probably work - but that it isn't nearly as good. The HDFury Linker looks like it COULD work, but they are adamant that it would not.


The AV map is UHD SOURCE ---> Receiver --> CONVERTER / Scaler / Scaler + Converter --> AE7000 Projector



Who here has experience with these products? Are there other products that would do the same or better more affordably?



My plan is to do a formal product review with what I learn. I want to keep my projector; been very happy with it.


Regards,
Enterfrize
If you only want to play 4K SDR content from your source and downscale to 1080p SDR, then Linker/Vertex1/Integral2 and any newer will work just fine.
If you want 4K HDR to 1080p SDR, then only DIVA or a combo of Linker/Vertex1/Integral2 and X4 can work.

In the world there is only 5 devices that can convert HDR>SDR for HDMI input/output:

LRP 7000$
ENVY 5000$
OPPO203 1500$
Diva
or combo with X4

Diva have much more advanced conversion than X4 as X4 still needs all latest work done on Diva to be ported to it, and we cannot yet give a time frame for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredmwright View Post
I accomplished this with the Gofanco Prophecy (Pro-HDRsplit2P). They actually modified the firmware on my request to force SDR only and block HDR for me. It might be worth a try for your use case also. I used this for a while prior to upgrading to my 4K projector. I was using the 5030ub with Prophecy and a Demon receiver with good results.

It is inexpensive and worked well. HDR can be more trouble than it is worth sometimes, I wish we could have the projector force SDR so we could avoid issues that HDR has for those of us with 4K setups vs forcing at the source of each device which varies from good to non existent.



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
Not exactly true, they didn't make any modification to firmware, they just edited EDID to remove HDR support, nothing else.
It would be nice, when people talk about this product, to report that it DOES NOT support any 422 chroma ! so no LLDV or game console HDR possible.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
If you only want to play 4K SDR content from your source and downscale to 1080p SDR, then Linker/Vertex1/Integral2 and any newer will work just fine.
If you want 4K HDR to 1080p SDR, then only DIVA or a combo of Linker/Vertex1/Integral2 and X4 can work.

In the world there is only 5 devices that can convert HDR>SDR for HDMI input/output:

LRP 7000$
ENVY 5000$
OPPO203 1500$
Diva
or combo with X4

Diva have much more advanced conversion than X4 as X4 still needs all latest work done on Diva to be ported to it, and we cannot yet give a time frame for that.



Not exactly true, they didn't make any modification to firmware, they just edited EDID to remove HDR support, nothing else.
It would be nice, when people talk about this product, to report that it DOES NOT support any 422 chroma ! so no LLDV or game console HDR possible.



Maybe you can clarify. There are two models being discussed here:


Model 1, the HDFury model, is we're going to take that HDR content and do our best to convert it to an equivalent in SDR. It takes extra processing and hard work, but we're going to do it for you.


Model 2, the Gofanko model, is we're going ignore the HDR completely. There is an SDR version of that content which we will pipe through, and we won't do any extra processing to try and convert one thing into another.


Is this an accurate representation of what is happening here?


It sucks that I can't find meaningful product reviews to showcase this. If only someone out there was doing a detailed product review to say one worked the same or better than the other. If only, if only...


Regards,
Neil
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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GOOD NEWS!!!


It turns out I already own a scaler that does what I need. You were both very helpful.


The HDFury representative was 100% correct that it was just a matter of editing the EDID in the scaler to 4K without HDR. It's not an HDR --> SDR conversion at all.


I don't know if HDR --> SDR conversion is better or not. I also don't know how UHD sources will handle 4K flagged as not HDR; will they run all the same?


I'll see what I can find out. The journey continues!



Regards,
Enterfrize
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
Maybe you can clarify. There are two models being discussed here:


Model 1, the HDFury model, is we're going to take that HDR content and do our best to convert it to an equivalent in SDR. It takes extra processing and hard work, but we're going to do it for you.


Model 2, the Gofanko model, is we're going ignore the HDR completely. There is an SDR version of that content which we will pipe through, and we won't do any extra processing to try and convert one thing into another.


Is this an accurate representation of what is happening here?


It sucks that I can't find meaningful product reviews to showcase this. If only someone out there was doing a detailed product review to say one worked the same or better than the other. If only, if only...


Regards,
Neil
Clarification:

All our models can take 4K SDR and output 1080p SDR.
Only DIVA can take 4K HDR and output 1080p SDR (or X4 but only when used with one of our downscaler)
Only 5 devices in the world can do HDR>SDR.

Gofanco device does NOT support any 422 chroma signal (so no LLDV and no HDR game possible and of course no advantage of using this with HTPC running MADVR, etc...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
GOOD NEWS!!!


It turns out I already own a scaler that does what I need. You were both very helpful.


The HDFury representative was 100% correct that it was just a matter of editing the EDID in the scaler to 4K without HDR. It's not an HDR --> SDR conversion at all.


I don't know if HDR --> SDR conversion is better or not. I also don't know how UHD sources will handle 4K flagged as not HDR; will they run all the same?


I'll see what I can find out. The journey continues!



Regards,
Enterfrize
Yes, it's only an EDID job, we have 100 EDID preloaded in our devices with or without HDR,DV,LLDV,3D,full audio etc.... and some good sources well designed will even output 4K BT2020 SDR, if your display support BT2020 it might be even better.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Clarification:

All our models can take 4K SDR and output 1080p SDR.
Only DIVA can take 4K HDR and output 1080p SDR (or X4 but only when used with one of our downscaler)
Only 5 devices in the world can do HDR>SDR.

Gofanco device does NOT support any 422 chroma signal (so no LLDV and no HDR game possible and of course no advantage of using this with HTPC running MADVR, etc...)




Yes, it's only an EDID job, we have 100 EDID preloaded in our devices with or without HDR,DV,LLDV,3D,full audio etc.... and some good sources well designed will even output 4K BT2020 SDR, if your display support BT2020 it might be even better.
Take an educated guess. EDID says 4K 60Hz no HDR. Figure modern UHD Bluray or any standard UHD streaming service (e.g. Netflix) reads that.


How would they handle it?

Regards,
Enterfrize
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
Take an educated guess. EDID says 4K 60Hz no HDR. Figure modern UHD Bluray or any standard UHD streaming service (e.g. Netflix) reads that.


How would they handle it?

Regards,
Enterfrize
They will output 4K SDR BT2020 if well designed (but that only make sense if your display support it) or 4K SDR BT709 (which you can downscale to 1080p and it will be accepted by any 1080p display)
This is also an EDID job (the fact to remove HDR but keep BT2020) but only capable source will be able to give 4K SDR BT2020.
so in case your display does not support BT2020, better make sure you use an EDID that advertise 4K, without HDR and without BT2020)

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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They will output 4K SDR BT2020 if well designed (but that only make sense if your display support it) or 4K SDR BT709 (which you can downscale to 1080p and it will be accepted by any 1080p display)
This is also an EDID job (the fact to remove HDR but keep BT2020) but only capable source will be able to give 4K SDR BT2020.
so in case your display does not support BT2020, better make sure you use an EDID that advertise 4K, without HDR and without BT2020)
And it will look normal as normal is by SDR standards?
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-13-2020, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Enterfrize View Post
And it will look normal as normal is by SDR standards?
BT2020 will look better if your display support it, if your display is only 1080p more likely it does not support it.
so better use 4K EDID without HDR and without BT2020 in this case.

4K SDR BT709 to 1080p SDR BT709 is actually like any 1080p signal, so that will always work and more likely be the best possible if your display cannot accept BT2020.
jaredmwright likes this.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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